Enlighten Me Free


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The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Came across this and found it easy to read and understand. I especially like this part:

""""Eventually the cult member’s self worth becomes dependent on the cult. The cult’s self worth replaces any independent self worth. The cult member feels that any and all happiness is because of the cult, and the “sins” of the real world are the cause of their unhappiness.

Once the individual has reached this point they will have also lost most of their independent thought.""""

Reminds me of how ones priorities really become determined by the 'cult' beliefs after a while. I never had any interest in 'ascension' or psychic ability or any of that stuff prior to rse. Being happy and fulfilled yes, but dining with aliens or enlightened beings, never.

Even when in the school, there were some things I didn't buy into which allowed me to feel a sense of individuality (I realize that was only a farce), still my priorities were not really my own. Of course, I felt like I had chosen them to be my own but the idea for them came from ramspam.

It's all so cleverly wrapped up in the suggestion that these are such expanded thoughts and how could we have possibly had these desires previously because our minds weren't able to think that big. But thanks to ramspam... it's the perfect sales pitch, like selling refrigerators to the eskimos. You didn't even know you needed it before! Suddenly you can't live without it...

Suspicious if you ask me.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Oops, I forgot to add the link to the article:


Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion


What you've posted is what VR claimed we need to do, post knowledge without "teasing". (VR doesn't like our sense of humor, though the RSE sense of humor "teasing" about us ignornant villagers seems to be acceptable)

As you know, your current post, along with many others, have posted knowledge that is educational with regard to the psychology of how cults work in a person's mind and belief system.

This paragraph you cited is excellent and to the point. The sadness in it, is that it won't make a dent in the current students who read here, when they are still in that brain-state of lacking critical thinking skills.

For them, perhaps it will plant a seed that will later bear fruit. One can hope.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Seems to be Self Value is at the root of the hook all cults snag you with.

Also, they all come from the point of view that man is a terrible and they need to fix them up... but by the way... you are God... You are Divine... Dulaity.

I read the prayers on a web site recently and althought the words are very beautiful and very pretty they start from the point of view that man is a terrible.

But the teacher is there to remind you that you are a good person... but say these prayers because you are bad.

Many of the teachings do not follow one point of view.. they tend to say things like You are Divine... You are God.... la la la la la

..and then you must pray to be saved. or do your list... or field work... or meditate or pray... or chant... or whatever to get it.


You are a terrible Divine One... You are a terrible God.

so let the games begin.

Does no one question these things.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

From that web site..... This is so true....
1) Find lonely, desperate people

2) Break them down: Make them feel much worse about themselves

3) Build them back up: make them feel good about themselves again

4) Repeat 2-3 until their sense of self-worth is completely dependent on you

5) Reveal the “true” beliefs of the cult and take all their money

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Ramtha refers to students as:

Wretched creatures - not even human beings. He tells them that they're stupid and they don't "get it", and he is just going to leave and not waste his time. Heard that numerous times.

Ramtha also pulls a 180 of the folkies and tells them they are divine Gods and he believes in them. He loves "his people" (what's that about?), and he's going to help them over the ditch.

Which reality do they choose ? He says, "It's all about which one you choose."

Really? Well, why does Ramtha "choose" to have a DUAL reality ? Why isn't he focused on this entire plane being Heaven on Earth, so none of his "180's" even need to be in his consciousness? These are the types of critical thinking, doubt-expressing examples of the discrepancies between what you see enacted, and what you're told.

It's like a parent who is smoking, telling a teenager they can't smoke. Lousy parenting; lousy teacher. Either instance.

The truth. That's why some of us have escaped out of there.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

The messages also can be dual and very complicated...

The below is one I just read this week....

Within this contains deep complicated ideas of who what and why...

Has these messages becme so complicated that the simple message of LOVE is lost?

We live in a time and a place where the opportunity for women and men to ask the question 'Who am I?' is respected and really very common, and yet the answer a Guru gives 'What aren't you?' seems to be lost on so many.


With Mafu we study that question, don't we? We look into the two people we tend to be, the one that Mafu describes as looking out and the one we are looking back in at the one who is looking out. And the fascinating thing, almost too heady for me to wrap my mind around is that the two almost mandates that we are separate from the One True God. The very notion of 'Guru' suggests separation, the very notion of student suggests distance. And yet the teachings, the principle we are asked to contemplate and experience is that 'We Are One'.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

The point of view of each as a SOVEREIGN person.
. There is no space more sacred or more powerful than any another.
. There is no being more spiritual than another.
. There is no thing more divine than another

Think about the term NAMASTE - I honor the god within you... that which I see within you I AM.

Now, how can you use that as a BASIC foundation.. and then turn around and say.. you NEED to PRAY for everone.

Seems to me that would be an ego needing to manipulate the world again.

Prayer is a form of Manipulation... would it not be ... if you are coming from a POINT OF VIEW of ALL THINGS EQUAL.... and acknowledgeing all as God... and all things as self.

Then why the Manipulation or a NEED to CONTROL.

For me personally.. I can NOT live in "THY WILL BE DONE".. on one hand.. and SURRENDER.. and on the other hand.. turn around and PRAY for some change for someone.... for me, that is manipulation.

I never hear anyone questioning deeper these concepts of Surrender.... the Will of God... and the human still needing to manipulate things with prayer.

and in group prayer... WE PRAYED FOR YOU... that is a big ego trip.

It all seems like opposits of what is being spoken to the students.

I would love your comments if you have the courage... I will not debate... just question.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion


So many Gods
So many creeds
So many paths that wind and wind
While the simple art of being kind
Is all this sad world needs.

Ella Wheeler Wilcox Coyrighted 1907 D. Hillson

This is from a framed antique postcard in my apartment. I keep looking at it lately.

Not debating with you Liz, but what is it you are surrendering to? I really don't know.
Namaste is a word I know.
So, namaste.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

There is NO Who... how silly...

For me... Surrendering... to the SILENCE...
"Thy Will Be Done" that is NOT a person it is ALL PERVAILING LIFE

For me it is living in a state of SURRENDER of Who comes... Who Goes... What Happens... What doesn't happen... Where life takes me... or does not.

Surrendering for me, is simply walking in spirit daily. Being guided by the ALL PREVAILING PRESENCE... releaved of the mental contrived planning.

No List... No Screaming and yelling or afermations.

Walking in sprit for me, means you go into the place of silence often and listen... ask and WALK... day by day....

I have an AMAZING ABUNDANT LIFE.... and it is led by spirit.

Plain and simple.... easy.. uncomplicated.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Truly, that sounds lovely.

I see nothing wrong with praying for people though...are you averse only to group prayer?
Or, are you saying that wishing good things for others is wrong because it implies that we can somehow affect their outcomes, and so is arrogant or a need to control?

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

I can only talk about my personal experience... and I can tell you.. when I stopped the madness of NEED TO and FEAR...... there was a relaxation that came upon me.

. There is no space more sacred or more powerful than any another.
. There is no being more spiritual than another.
. There is no thing more divine than another

The Ocean Water... is the SAME if it is place in a small cup... large cup... green, blue or yellow, black or white cut.... IT IS THE SAME...

I do not PRAY for anything anymore. I have some amazing feeling of being at peace within me.... much is beyond words... and I can say, when you stop your need to FIX UP... or CHANGE or PRAY FOR or do this or that... everyting just works out without your interferance with it. It is simply amazing.

There is great power in non-interferance... the power is the SILENCE.

Hubby and I talk about it... I know when you SEND ENERGY TO OTHERS.... good or bad... that creates KARM... SENDING is MANIPULATION.. plan and simple.

Even GOD BLESS YOU... think about it... GOD BLESS YOU... who are we to BLESS a GOD that is ALREADY ALL POWERFULL. It is crazy.

I Leave then all alone. I Acknowledge ALL as the PRESENCE of God. When I do this... there is a SILENT POWER that is allowed to be.

...it is a REAL feeling of all is well with the world.

It removes all the drama in life...

I have sat back and watched every single desire I have ever had, come to me effortlessly... I find it AMAZING... I simply chop wood carry water daily in my life.

Yes I do still work.. but there is not the CRAZY games involved. Self-Employed. I present what I have.... I let those who require what I offer to come forth upon me. No Manipulation No Control.. just BEING.

I know there is a POWER that is connected to SILENCE WITHIN... and minding your own business.

I just let the people and family and friends just be without the need to fix them up or send a blessing or prayer.

There is a GREAT POWER in just acknowledging them as the same as myself.

No one is less then me... no one is greater...

Those things consume lots of energy and we tend to get all caught up in someone or somethink out there.

In those cases, we are the one who become powerless and unhappy.... because the energy is not relaxed.

All of those things like prayer... and affirming.. and yelling.. and on and on is NOT in a state of BEING relaxed.

Anyway, for what it is worth... for me... surrender is to merge more deeply within myself daily... the surrender is to let go the BOX of WHO WHAT WHEN or WHERE WHY... in that for me there is just BEING RELAXED... and simple.

I watch the Dolophins daily just jump and play in the Gulf... the Birds stand every morning FACING the SUN.. and in the eveining Facing the West as the Sun goes down.

I watch the wind blow the sand on our beach and I clean the sand from the patio daily.

I watch the clouds float and the Sun come up and down daily...

It is so amazing to just watch from the hourse the ocean come in and go out.... and the wake of water merge back into the Gulf... I can watch the Gulf of Mexico for hours every day.

Even when a small amount of the Gulf water is left in a puddle... eventually the Gulf comes back in and consumes that small puddle and it become one with the Guld again...

. There is no place or space more sacred or more powerful than any another.

. There is no being.. no person.. more spiritual than another.

. There is no thing more divine than another

The Ocean Water... is the SAME if it is place in a small cup... large cupl..... green, blue or yellow, black or white cut.... IT IS ALL THE SAME...

Anyway, this is my life... I love it. I am at peace and in aw constantly.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion


Interesting thoughts you share. I don't have time to comment more now, but I will.

I had an experience with an old neighbor, who told me her church prayer group was praying for me. It's a long story. I was taken aback. I did not want them to pray for me ! IMO, if someone asks you to pray for them, you have the option of doing so, or bowing out. This was totally unsolicited - and unwelcome, given that they had a christian agenda. Bottom line is that it was connected to me going to their Bible Study group. I did for about 8 - 9 months, and told them it seemed like a false doctrine to me and I couldn't go anymore. (Then came the prayers) My neighbor, who meant well in her righteousness, begged me to go. I told her I wasn't joining a church. Been there, done that.

Anyway...all that to say I agree with your view about prayer - unless - for me, someone asks. I would honor it if they asked me for themselves or their child, but not for an "agenda". Just the same as I'd honor their request for me to help them by babysitting, or borrowing a cup of sugar...you see what I'm saying.

Okay, have to go.

It's wonderful when a person finds the joy-peace in their life. I understand what you're saying because I'm very happy with my life, too. I also don't have to face the same challenges that some people have to deal with, either, though. If I did, I might have another viewpoint.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

if someone asks you to pray for them, you have the option of doing so, or bowing out
I totally agree.. You are so right.

Brings to mind the man who tells his mon his wife has left him and filed for divorce..

the girl is happy to move on with her life...

the husband's MOther has her PRAYER GROUP PRAY for them to GET BACK TOGETHER...

Pure Manipulation...

That is the point.


Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

My Sister belongs to a prayer circle (not Christian)..but they have a rule..the person needs to have aksed. Also, they never pray for specific outcomes, only for that person's greatest good. Is this wrong?

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Personally, I would pray for someone who asked me, for what they wanted. I mean, if a friend requested prayer for healing their illness, I would do that. If they asked me to pray for their friend, I probably wouldn't do it. Unless the friend put out a call for help from anyone willing, in that way.

I pray that God's will be done (highest good), UNLESS the person requests something specific. Then, I honor their request and don't have an opinion about it. I figure, God will have God's way, no matter what, so if a prayer request is made, it may or may not be acted upon. (Whatever God means to you, of course)

Of course, all of this presumes that there is a "God" in some way. That's another conversation, LOL.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

thanks, I believe I understand.

I remember during an intense session in a course I took, I burst into tears. After class, a Christian lady approached me and asked me if she could pray for me. I wrestled with various ideas, but finally, I said yes, because it was clear to me that in her own way she was trying to help and comfort me.

Littlewiseone...I read that article, it is really what you said, easy to read and informative.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Watcha - in response to your first reply, yes I see what you're saying about people not seeing the point no matter how it is presented. That's the nature of being red in the rainbow I guess...

Also, it's the same reason I didn't look at it sooner than I did when I was still in rse. It shakes the very foundation.
Isn't it funny that one of the claims of rse is how 'the teachings' will revolutionize our view of the world and our self but when it comes to revolutionizing one's view of rse, no one is quite so willing.
Hypocrisy in action.
Again I say, if it's really that rock solid then it can be challenged and it will stand the test.

Liz, I have to admit that some of your posts had me slightly confused but I think I understand what you're saying about the dichotomy of 'being whole' and yet having to pray for things. Are you saying that when it comes to teachers or religion, they should make up their mind, either we are god or we are wretched things that need to pray for our salvation...?

When it comes to prayer, I think some of it does come down to what one's view of god or the universe or whatever is, which is certainly opening a can of worms, lol. If someone asks me to pray for them or a friend I usually just say, I'll keep you in my thoughts or I'll be thinking of you. I don't 'believe' in prayer, yet keeping them in my thoughts - while I don't think it will make any difference to their reality - is a way of being compassionate and showing my solidarity with them, for what it's worth. I agree with you too Lost, that sometimes you just let someone 'pray' for you if that's what makes them happy - it's the thought that counts, right?

Lost in Space - the argument could probably be made that the article is too simplistic or lumps too much of religion in with 'cults' in general but the assessment of how cults/groups/religions draw people in when they are low makes a lot of sense to me. At that point, when you have been pulled out of the depths of despair, it's almost as though you owe something to the group/ teacher for 'saving' you, and so the cycle is set...

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

I definitely believe in the power of prayer; but I also believe that when you pray for someone, even if they've solicited prayer, that you use the caveat "if this is for their highest good and the intent of their soul's purpose."

PS: tried to post this with Explorer but it said my IP address was blocked. Since there's no reason that should be I figure it was the typical problem with AOL shifting IP addresses. PLease clarify, as I have not posted anything to cause me to be blocked.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Are you saying that when it comes to teachers or religion, they should make up their mind, either we are god or we are wretched things that need to pray for our salvation...?

This is exactly what I am sayig...

The next step is NOT doing C & E or PRAYING but SEE CLEARLY the people on the stage of life.. as different parts of self projecting the drama of life.

If you read the Lord's Prayer... there is no PRAYER for others...

You ask for :Forgive us of our trespasses(Iterfearance) as we forgive those who trespass (INTERFEAR) against us.

"Thy Will Be Done" On Earth as it is in Heaven....

These are not prayers for peace.

I would say if you want peace... be peaceful.

If you want abundance.. then GIVE FREELY TO OTHERS...

We become what we give out ward. At least that is what I have WATCHED happen around my life.

No SEPERATION of one is better or one is worst. The WHOLESOME approach of EQUAL EYES.

How can I truly say NAMASTE in one breath and then PRAY for them in the next?

For me personally, Namasté or Namaskar (नमस्ते [nʌmʌsˈteː]..."I bow to you". In recognizing a common divinity within the other person... to refer to some transcendent or transcendental power, or its attributes or manifestations in the world.

The root of the words is literally 'Godlike'

Look at the word God....God (IPA: /ɡɒd/) most commonly refers to the deity worshipped by followers of monotheistic and monolatrist religions, whom they believe to be the creator and ruler of the universe

Now, if I have just ACKNOWLEDGED the person as "GODLIKE" the Creator .. the Ruler of THEIR Uiverse, then why would in the NEXT BREATH, I would need to PRAY FOR THEM.

The two for me, do not represent the same. If I NEED TO PRAY for them, I immediately remove the GOLDLIKE Quality.. and I am acknowledging them as wretched being again.

In much of the New Age Religions... people seem to speak words with no deeper thought or understanding of what they are doing.

What do you do.... Well, if ask, what I do in my life is talk to them and remind them that THEY HAVE THE POWER to change their mind and life. Not by ME.. but by themself.

I ask them, what is the greatest outcome that you can imagine... I tell them to feel it.. and then let it go... and march on... live your life. One Day One Step at a time.

It flips the POWER back to self... not me.

If ASK, I tend to encourage them to get themself up there where they belong... smile... in a very kind compassionate gentle way. REMEMBER you are GREATER than the duality and events of this world.

BELIVE in them... Remind them that there is the GREATNESS of ALL THINGS and ALL POSSIBILITIES within them... encourage them.... and KNOW ... they have the POWER and are God.

I made a decision many years ago, that if I am going to speak these words like NAMASTE... then I must also LIVE those words... or else... I am only giving lip service to words I do not understad or playing word games with people....and in that, it is always ego driven.

No one less than or greater than anyone else.

The SAME Light is within ALL things... just different containers. Help them remember THEIR GREATNESS.

For me, it is a manipulation game, to pray for them.

The only prayer I would pray for anyone is THY WILL BE DONE. "THY" = ALL Prevailing Life


Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Mind your own business works better... this way you do ot TRESPASS unless ASK... to come into their life.

tres·pass (trĕs'pəs, -păs')

To commit an offense or a sin; transgress or err.
Law. To commit an unlawful injury to the person, property, or rights of another, with actual or implied force or violence, especially to enter onto another's land wrongfully.

To infringe on the privacy, time, or attention of another: “I must . . . not trespass too far on the patience of a good-natured critic” (Henry Fielding).
n. (trĕs'păs', -pəs)
Transgression of a moral or social law, code, or duty.
The act of trespassing.
A suit brought for trespassing.
An intrusion or infringement on another. See synonyms at breach.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Interesting thread. reminds me of some ex-member rap sessions I've sat in on at conferences.

Liz: Much of your personal philosophy reminds me of John Lennon's song "Imagine".

Lennon was shot to death by a crazy man, Mark Chapman, who heard voices telling him to do it:
"The song "Imagine" also angered Chapman – at prayer meetings and religious rallies, Chapman and his prayer group also sang a parody with the lyric "Imagine, imagine John Lennon is dead." Chapman had also read in a library book (John Lennon: One Day at a Time by Anthony Fawcett) about Lennon's life in New York. "He was angry that Lennon would preach love and peace but yet have millions [of dollars]," said his wife Gloria. Chapman later reported that "He told us to imagine no possessions, and there he was, with millions of dollars and yachts and farms and country estates, laughing at people like me who had believed the lies and bought the records and built a big part of their lives around his music."

The reason I bring this up is that people will not let us merely "let them be". What do we do with a man like mark Chapman--let him live in peace in his own reality?

Many people hate me for "interfering" with controversial beliefs and with cult members, yet so many others find value in it.
I think we would all like to live in the spirit of Namaste in peace with the holy silence around us---I know I do and I take advantage of it every chance I get, like when i walk my dog or work on a painting.
Keeps me sane...

....then I turn around to face the reality that I am married with children and I go to work nightly to face crazy people, some of who will say F$#% Y&%# after I say Namaste [figuratively]!

I think peace comes from how well we handle adversity. The "Lord's Prayer" is a behavioral formula for peace from one cultural religion. It contains the universal plea for reciprocity that leads to peace: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

just some thoughts to add to yours....and all.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Joe, your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion


To clarify your question,

Your IP is not blocked.
Your posts are welcome.


VNOTVirtualReality (hijacked?)

The Hijacker was posting from Hamburg, Germany.

The Moderators.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

When I try to post from AOL I still get the blocked message but not when I post using the Metacrawler browser.
Is my IP address still hijacked; or do you think it's that AOL problem?
When I first discovered this site, through another cult forum I got a "you are blocked" message on that site and I have never posted on there, so I just figured it's that AOL problem.
In any case, if you can't solve the AOL problem, I'll just post from Metacrawler.


Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Being involved in many forms of spiritual studies over the years, I know I have points of view that may not be like everyone else.

Thank you Joe for your views too.

I do enjoy looking deeper at these questions anyway.


Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Yes, good post Joe. The problem I see with 'interfering' (and I'm not saying we shouldn't) is just, what makes our criteria for interference more valid than the missionaries or a fanatical ramster? It's more of an ethical question than an argument for 'namaste'. Kind of like whether it is ultimately ethical to constrain a person for the purposes of 'exit-counseling'. Maybe the stakes are what determine the necessary action.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

""He was angry that Lennon would preach love and peace but yet have millions [of dollars]," said his wife Gloria. Chapman later reported that "He told us to imagine no possessions, and there he was, with millions of dollars and yachts and farms and country estates, laughing at people like me who had believed the lies and bought the records and built a big part of their lives around his music." "

Very enlightening. It never occurred to me that JZ and current Ramsters might interpret EMFers in this vein: JZ preaching being god and all the wealth rolling in and most Ramsters barely above poverty level, much less being in an occupation commiserate with their education levels (being compared to people on the "outside"). I , in fact, know of one person, who took a $10 and hour job in the mail order department just to have "the grand opportunity" to work at the Ranch. This person has an MA in speech pathology. Do you know how many people she could have helped in this lifetime , not to mention keep her lifestyle she was accustomed to BEFORE she came to RSE? And now she lives with gravity fed water. Just an amazing example of how brainwashing truly works.

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

Everyone here, will ALWAYS some basic point of foundation that we live our life. One could argue that ANY FOUNDATION could be considered a cult... and a IMAGINING.... as all beliefs are based on our foundations from our past... and perhaps dreams of a world that is ethical and respectful of all people.

I would hardly tell anyone to give up possessions or have none... I have been through the fire of wealth ...homelessness and rebuilding from the bottom up again.. and now I hardly live a live without anything... just the opposit... I can not think of anything I am without.

I have just like hundreds before me paid enormously for my life choices and being involved in cults. Eventually you do see that almost anything from baseball / sports / .... politial followings.... and high fashion all have elements of a cult like following.

In the end, we must each live within our own self... and have some basic guidelines for our joining and communing with one another.

Chop wood carry water... Mind your own business.. is only one type of guideline...

To each his own.

""He was angry that Lennon would preach love and peace but yet have millions [of dollars]," said his wife Gloria. Chapman later reported that "He told us to imagine no possessions, and there he was, with millions of dollars and yachts and farms and country estates, laughing at people like me who had believed the lies and bought the records and built a big part of their lives around his music." "

Re: The Psychology Behind Cults/Religion

बोधि Bodhi

It's an AOL problem.

The Moderators.