This is weird, but what is not weird about our whole ram experience. I am at home in California and a few of the appointed teachers, not all of them but 3 of them who are male keep on telepathing to me when I don’t want them to. They hit on me telepathically. All the time and make remarks about how good my body looks. They remote view me in the bath and shower it used to be all the time. They watch me when I’m doing private things and I am fully aware it’s them for sure because I’m clairvoyant. I went to school and studied to be a clairvoyant for years and I know what I’m seeing is correct. I only went to 3 retreats but only because of that small amount of contact they just won’t leave me alone. I think remote view and telepathy are actually bad in the hands of immature people because they use it for immature things. I’m telling you 3 of these men, one of them actually who is a former teacher literally astral travel to my house and stare at my naked body and will not leave me alone as many times as I’ve tried to tell them to go away. I know they hear me but they think they can get away with it because they think they have autonomy and they think no one would ever believe me if I spoke out like this. I really screws up my belief in the school when I know that these people who are supposed to be so “special” that they have been appointed by ram are just psychic peeping toms hiding behind autonomy doing things with their mind they would never do in real life in there real community ;because they know in their real community they would be held accountably and embarrassed by their actions. Greg Simmons comes in my truck when I’m trying to drive and harasses me, picks on me repeatedly for supposedly driving not good enough for his standard. It only makes me angry and less able to concentrate on the road. Mike constantly picks on me telepathically that I am not a financially sovereign woman and that I need to get a real job that he accepts as a real job. He also used to say all the time that I spend too much money on my health food in the grocery store and why can’t I just buy oscar weiner hot dogs like he understands instead of the chicken apple sausage that I eat. Joe just hits on me sexually sometimes on a daily basis. No wonder he’s not a teacher anymore when this is his real unconscious. I know I’m not crazy. I know exactly what I’m seeing and hearing psychically. I know I’m accurate. I know exactly who is sending me these messages. To all three of you. You have no right to rule my life. You have no right to tell me what to do. Your not my teachers, fathers, leaders and I don’t want you psychically or any other way in my life trying to talk to me or control me. Please Please for about the hundredth time go away!

Oh dear! Since you have found that this is out of your control, you can find other people who can help you. An exit counselor would be a great start. He can help you choose the best options for you to take control of your life. He can direct you to the right people who know how to help you. Don't wait. Take action. Make a phone call. All the very best! VP.

What a horrible experience.
There is a book out there - Psychic Self Defense, by Dion Fortune...I recommend it. Here is a litte blurb about it.
Book Description
After finding herself the subject of a powerful psychic attack, Dion Fortune wrote this detailed instruction manual for safeguarding yourself against paranormal malevolence. Fortune explores the elusive psychic element in mental illness and, more importantly, details the methods, motives, and physical aspects of psychic attack, and how to overcome this energy. The revised edition of this New Age classic includes an index and an additional explanatory note for contemporary readers. Index. --This text refers to the Paperback edition.
-Even though it is not entirely in alignment with my personal belief system, I have found it helpful.
Sending you clarity and peace.

Ramnomore,

I don't know where you are in CA. I am in Los Angeles. If you would like to contact me I would be more then willing to share some of my experiences that may shed some light on what might be occuring with you. Please feel free.

ramnomore,

Do you understand what a Trojan Horse is?
I am sure you do.
I would advise you seek psychiatric counseling immediately.

David.

The school has taught you that "you are god," right? One god shall not "trespass" another. As the school teaches, simply state, "you shall not pass."
Live in your own light and love. Do remember, the school teaches "you create your reality". So all you need do is say NO, right?

Beyond this, I agree with the much more experienced posters above.

ramnomo....
In my experience I've had hundreds of ex-members come to me with similar complaints of 'psychic attack' and even 'possession' by former gurus. My approach is always to listen first, then try to help them parse out what is really going on. There are ways to test whether the phenomena are real, although not always easy to do.

Dion Fortune is interesting but she nevetheless remained within the belief system [some say delusional belief system] that psychic attack is real and not mental illness or merely a subjective misinterpreation of thought and feeling reactions.

If you follow her advice or that of any other occultist, you risk living with that paranoia the rest of your life.

The best cure I have found for those feeling psychic attack without a chronic mental illness is to just stop believing in and using psychic power. The attacks will fade...
Some of my clients/ex-members had more severe symptoms---they eventually, after resisting for years in a few cases, went to a psychiatrist and with medication, the "attacks" came under control.

Take my personal case...I have been known as a "cult buster" and severe critic of false gurus [like Satya Sai Baba] since the early 1980s that allegedly have occult powers. I am a HUGE target of not just one group but hundreds. I sleep well enough [for a night shift worker at a mental hospital], nothing wrong with me beyond minor ashes and pains for a 60 year old guy, and no psychic attacks.

Fair to say, Joe, that if they could really attack you by remote, you would probably not be able to lift your mangled fingers to a keyboard to type.
FYI, though, alongh with being a theosophist person,with mystical christian and paranormal beliefs, Dion Fortune was also a practicing psychiatrist! Surprised?

To Ramnomore,
I believe you and have had similar things happen.
Womens bodys tend to "take in" and hold more of these energies, as mens sexual bodies are "out there" and do put hooks in that way, leaving thier essence in us, physically and otherwise...
so you might want to practice just closing yourself off astrally in what ever ways you can...dont read books, just make up your own designs of how to do this...when you find your own tecniques, you will empower yourself that way alone. After all, Rams/JZs ideas came from others, so just make up your own, or borrow from which ever styles attract you and use them mentaly and emotionally.


Those people may not even be completely aware of when they are doing it, or, you may also be recieving ORB or other astral energies that are probably many, hanging onto them, especially with all the alcohol use going on.
I hate to admit this,[to all you RSE haters reading this] but I have often used the TRIAD as well as the color violet, around my body, and the emotional thought of Protection, as well as a Mirror that reflects thier junk back onto "them". It works becasue I believe it will.....

I think tho that yu also Might have to somehow address the part of you that holds space open for this to happen,... perhaps you have past sexual abuse issues you have not addressed, as I did, which was why I was attracting [sexual] things I didnt really want to happen.
There were burried memories of invasive experiences that happened to me as a child...and still today I have a tendancy to attract that sort of thing, as I had been heavily programmed to "accommodate" that kind of attention. Its a lifelong process to keep clearing that programming when ever it gets triggered.

Also helpful I now find it to stop giving "them" any emotional attention IN PUBLIC.
Express it all in private and send it up to what ever your "higher power" is to you, to help you, and them, to keep thier energy to themself.
These 'thought forms' bothering you, just LOVE recognition that they exist, and feed off your anger, and other emotions.
Then go mind your own business and stay busy however you do, but be careful. I personally dont believe in denying fear about it all. Express everything in a safe private space first, then see if you still need a theraputic person to help.
Check out this website www.expansions.com.

Its really time to release all this Programming we are under, and get control of our own energy!!!!

I have caught myself feeling "special" because of having these receptive abilities like what you have, and thus, experiences to draw attention to myself. No Good. Just do something else that gives you recognition.
Anyway, thats my opinion.
I get these particular "shoulder aches" whenever someone is thinking too much of me...even my mother!! annoying.
So just try to learn what you need to about your own power, and maybe those other "powerful" people will leave you alone.
They are a reflection of denied parts of you, and maybe it isnt only so much THEM after you, but you have personified them as the problem, in order to get your Attention onto yurself.
They will "go away" only when you have embraced what thier presence has to teach you about yourself.
I wish it was easier than that, all IMO, of course....

Also, I couldnt help see the humour in your explicitness concerning the chicken apple sauce drama

Just learn more how to respect and trust your own ideas on how to live your life.!

I have a couple people off and on bugging me too these days. My mother is one of them, she lives in LA and is VERY needy for my attention....
When I have no ambition, and other such heavy moods, I can feel they are there too, physically far away, but in the same state, desiring to sabotage my own "self content" life force, so they hope maybe Ill call they up and want to spend my "creativity" on THIER drama! annoying!
The residue of being "empathetic"....

All these people need to go mind thier own business, and Own thier own emotions, and figure themSELVES out rather than project on other people, fantasies, curiosities, etc......then they can ASK for relationships they want to have UPFRONT, instead of sneaking around the astral ways......!!!
..............so be it.[

lostinspace said:
"FYI, though, along with being a theosophist person,with mystical christian and paranormal beliefs, Dion Fortune was also a practicing psychiatrist! Surprised?"

I laughed out loud-- --I've worked around shrinks since the early 1970s and have known at least 25 well. Half of them were/are quite odd. eg, One I knew last year has schizophrenia ["a beautiful mind"]-- when he was in remission I worked with him as a treating doc, six months later I was admitting him to our hospital. he is 65.
Another lady psychiatrist I work with was reading a book by Sylvia Brown, the infamous psychic. She told me she actually flew out to get a reading by Brown in Calif over a year ago. Then the doc asked me my opinion of Sylvia---after I told her what I did "on the side" as a cult critic, she backed off a bit and admitted that the reading she got was not that impressive and could have been a "cold reading". Duh....but the doc does a decent job with diagnosis and treament models.

Another one I knew in 1972 was a practicing psychic but never charged money. I could go on and on about psychiatrists, but I also work with some brilliant, balanced doctors too, thank goodness....

I read a lot of Dion F's aka Violet Mary Firth Evans,
during my seeker years in the 1970s--she was involved with that colorful crowd around the Order of the Golden Dawn in the UK. Fascinating people all of them....Yeats' wife, Mathers, Crowley--even James Joyce dabbled. Some scholars say the occult Golden Dawn was responsible for stimulating the Irish literary revival.

As an artist I can always appreciate the fringe thinkers and quirky religious types because they can stretch our imaginations and entertain, but for the most part, as "misfits" they are poor managers of social and political reality if not personal reality as well.

pS: Lost, I did not think Dion Fortune was a psychiatrist, so I just checked wikipedia:
"She was born at Bryn-y-Bia in Llandudno, Wales, and grew up in a household where Christian Science was rigorously practiced . She reported visions of Atlantis at age four and the developing of psychic abilities during her twentieth year , at which time she suffered a nervous breakdown; after her recovery she found herself drawn to the occult . She joined the Theosophical Society and attended courses in psychology and psychoanalysis at the University of London , and became a lay psychotherapist at the Medico-Psychological Clinic in Brunswick Square ."

so she was a "lay psychologist."

Well Joe, in spite of that, the advice she gives in the book is good. On the subject of reality - it is unique to the individual, and so is "the cure"...what Ramnomore would read in that book is that, regardless of whether the teachers are actually sending her that energy, it is real to her, and she needs to take action - use her power of imagination, to construct mental/figurative shields of light/strengthen her aura/surround herself with God's grace/activate a mirror fortress, or whatever form defending herself from the intrusion of whatever it is, whether negative energy, her own thoughtforms, erroneous ideas she may hold, actual powers of those Masters,or whatever, could take.
Dion Fortune left the Golden Dawn to start her own society, which is still going on. was not advocating for anybody to join it. or discouraging that either. That wasn't the point. I think Dion Fortune's advice is excellent, regardless.

Agreed, that some psychiatrists are a few bricks short of a load, while others are decent honourable and compassionate people with a wisdom to rival Solomon's...(in spite of their training, lol)...and the same could be said of "occultists"...

Sounds like a psychotic breakdown to me. David you better rescue this woman. She may commit suicide. Her mental health is in jeopardy with her thoughts.

"David McCarthy
Do you understand what a Trojan Horse is?
I am sure you do.
I would advise you seek psychiatric counseling immediately.

David."

Hmmmmm, good job David, give her a helping hand. Let's see if she follows through. She says, she is not crazy, David. So now, what do you do?


"G2G
The school has taught you that "you are god," right? One god shall not "trespass" another. As the school teaches, simply state, "you shall not pass."
Live in your own light and love. Do remember, the school teaches "you create your reality". So all you need do is say NO, right?

Beyond this, I agree with the much more experienced posters above. "

Now , this is a good post, "you create your reality." I couldn't agree more. In addition. I would add sometimes people have their personal demons that through the transference process, they assign their so called enemies personalities/face to, thereby making them the demon.


"seesallsides

Those people may not even be completely aware of when they are doing it, or, you may also be recieving ORB or other astral energies that are probably many, hanging onto them, especially with all the alcohol use going on.
I hate to admit this,[to all you RSE haters reading this] but I have often used the TRIAD as well as the color violet, around my body, and the emotional thought of Protection, as well as a Mirror that reflects thier junk back onto "them". It works becasue I believe it will....."

Hmmmm, other entities masquerading as them? Could be, didn't Halloween just pass? Perhaps the teachers dream state. Maybe this person's dream state. Who is to say. Of all the beautiful students with nice bodies out there, why just this one? Maybe there are more. Hmmmmm, I guess the psychiatrist will be awfully busy making plans for their next big vacation or new car, with all the business JZK, Inc and company are sending her way. Think JZK, Inc is getting a kick back? Oh no, I forgot, you guys post that she is the scammer out there taking the students money. I wonder what the mental health field and doctors do, work for free?

Some thoughts from a councelor/psychic...

"This stuff is very complicated. Psychic attack in spiritual circles is mostly agreed upon to be an attack using 'black magic' or negative psychic intent towards another person. A lot of emphasis is put on protecting yourself from possible attack or negative influences from negative people. I do have clients who believe this is happening to them and they are mostly a huge pain in the **** to deal with because of the paranoia, loss of personal power and idea that they need to to chase the baddies away or keep the baddies away. It can be very difficult to get across to them the power of the mind, the power of beleif, and that they are giving their power away by beleiving that someone else can do this to them. I'm not saying that psychic attack is real or not real, only that it serves no useful psychological purpose to beleive in it, to put mental energy into it. It's healthier to focus on positive, supportive, loving energies and people and just get on with life. Energy flows where attention goes, your pespective shapes your perception and experience of reality. I teach protection in my course but its all about how to help yourself feel safe and about setting healthy boundaries.... definitely not geared around. 'there are bad things out there that can get you so be scared' which is what alot of this stuff acheives. Antyhing is possible and its up to you what reality/headspace you choose to buy into. I don't buy into ones that promote paranoia because they aren't psychologically healthy! I do remove bad things from peoples aura's but I don't worry too much about trying to define what those things are- mostly I consider them to be symbolic of negative headspaces or toxic emotions and leave it at that. I had a discussion about demons with a studetn yesterday.... In my book, even they have a place in the world if they are real because the world is made up of yin and yang and we need all shades of colours even the darker ones.... negative energies can be dangerous but important to remember they are damaged, misguided, ignorant ... the light and a lot more fun! Also, as a healer, I tend to be very comfortable with dark stuff, don't destroy, only transform."

I wish this was the computer my printer is hooked up to...Vegan Pride, that is great!

So my posts are being deleted. but you keep ramnomore. She is obviously lying or severely mentally ill and you KNOW it. ramnomore is likely just tree using another identity.

Why the obsession with Tree via character assassination?
She spoke truth. She stepped forward among a community full
of those who would take offense. She is courageous beyond
words.

I remember "R" saying, "I will lie to you." So is that alright
with current RSE'ers?

People paying thousands of dollars/euros for admitted
lies - well, this is just going off topic much to the
delight of those at RSE.

If EMF continues to present itself, the truthseekers will
come, in love and compassion - something "R" tramples
upon.

I'm stunned why some RSE'ers would pounce on Tree,
claiming she is not being honest, yet still pay these
thousands of dollars for an admitted teaching of lies.

Follow the money - follow the money.

G2G,

Excellent point. "Ramtha" has said that s/he will lie to students, a number of times. I can vouch for that. I was there and heard it.

Ramnomore, maybe my experience will help you. Years ago, pre-RSE, I was taking metaphysical classes, and there was an older man in the group who kept flirting with me. We were friends but I didn't want anything more than that. I felt pressured but hadn't yet learned to be direct. One night I dreamed that he was doing his suggestive flirting, and I told him to cut it out. When he didn't stop, I had had enough, and I slapped his face (in my dream).

The next day, I saw this man in "normal" reality. The first words out of his mouth, before I had a chance to say anything were: "I got your message." Then he told me he knew I had slapped him in the dream state, and he would back off. He did, and we enjoyed a platonic friendship for many years.