As you know I am always trying to understand why my partner is involved in the Ramtha cult so I looked at the masters connection site. Honestly I just dont get it, there are people on their begging for help with medication, money, food etc - what sort of masters are these? Aren't these people displaying just the sort of victim tendencies that Ramsters hate with a passion?

Also I read another post, again laughable, where someone is likening her mother's lighting of a candle to help with problems etc to the focusing on the candle discipline at RSE. Sorry but has she ever asked her Mother why she does it, lighting a candle is a catholic tradition - and the poster on the masters site is suggesting that its somehow linked to Ramtha. These people will make anything fit their belief system.

Oh, absolutely. They believe Ramtha (TM) actually taught Jesus (Yeshua Ben Joseph in Ramtha (TM) terminology). The reason they believe this?

Because the big JZ as R said so. Similar to eating Twinkies is healthy.

They not only believe that Ramther taught Jesus, but they believe that Ramther is one of thirteen Gods that infused their souls into one - which created Jesus.

Sit down now...

Here's the discrepancy. Ramther ALSO said that it was Jehovah (the bad boy), who created the timeline of Jesus because the initial intent was for him to be a malevolent force in taking over control here.

So, poor Jesus was the brainchild of Jehovah and Rammy and his buds ? Doing battle via Jesus, all for us folkies. Awww, shucks.

well nothing from jzr is new.she seems to be very interwofen with the thesophic society.this guys went out to raise the upcoming mesia.they took gifted kids and 'edjucated them'.isolation,put them in darknes.....krishnamurty was one of them.he turned his back on them and went his own way.he gave lessons about not lissening to anybody but yourself.he was upright about it.any paralells?to creating a christ,when jzr told her houswife warior interpretations i allways wonderd about.that a warlord influenced the evolution of humanity so much.is this why ramtha has to come back to clean up his mess?[remember to a point in time i believed in my hirophant yak]obviewsly war is very glorified mean to stear the masses and make money on the back of others.basicly a buisness attitude of just take what you need.

When I first lectured on Ramtha in 1986 at the College of Santa Fe for the locals, I related the Ramtha story to a Gnostic myth, esp the relationship between the Ramtha "Jehovah" and the Gnostic Demiurge [creator god] aka Ialdaboath or Yaweh---yes, the creator God of the Jews. Avid Gnostics reject that god and all "his" rules, sciences, governments, churches, etc.

JZ, following earlier Theosophists reworks the Gnostic myth to fit her own needs and visions. iow, I think JZ made some of it up to make it seem like Ramtha knows more than the early Gnostic mythmakers did.
from wikipedia--this is a fairly accurate account:
"In Gnosticism

[edit] Nag Hammadi
In the Nag Hammadi, Sophia is the lowest æon, or anthropic expression of the emanation of the light of God. She is the syzygy of Jesus Christ (i.e. she forms a unity with Christ, being cojoined with him), and Gnostics believed that she was the Holy Spirit of the Trinity. Sophia is depicted as the creator of the material universe in On the Origin of the World. Furthermore, the planet Earth and everything on it was indeed created by the Jewish God Yahweh, but he is depicted as fundamentally corrupt. Because Sophia created the material universe and its god (also known as Yaldabaoth, Samael, and Demiurge) either without her syzygy Jesus Christ or, in another tradition, because she tried to breach the barrier between herself and the unknowable Bythos.

Furthermore, she is also depicted as the destroyer of both this material universe, and Yaldabaoth/Yahweh and all his Heavens. Later in "On the Origin of the World," it states:

"She [Sophia] will cast them down into the abyss. They [the archons] will be obliterated because of their wickedness. For they will come to be like volcanoes and consume one another until they perish at the hand of the prime parent. When he has destroyed them, he will turn against himself and destroy himself until he ceases to exist. And their heavens will fall one upon the next and their forces will be consumed by fire. Their eternal realms, too, will be overturned. And his heaven will fall and break in two. His [...] will fall down upon the [...] support them; they will fall into the abyss, and the abyss will be overturned. The light will [...] the darkness and obliterate it: it will be like something that never was."


[edit] The fall of Sophia
Sophia's fear and anguish of losing her life (just as she lost the light of the One) caused confusion and longing to return to it. Because of these longings, matter (Greek: hyle, ‘υλη) and soul (Greek: psyche, ψυχή) accidentally came into existence through the four elements: fire, water, earth, and air. The creation of the lion-faced Demiurge is also a mistake made during this exile, according to some Gnostic sources as a result of Sophia trying to emanate on her own, without her male counterpart. The Demiurge proceeds to create the physical world in which we live, ignorant of Sophia, who nevertheless managed to infuse some spiritual spark or pneuma into the creation of the Demiurge.

After this the savior (Christ) returns and lets her see the light again, bringing her knowledge of the spirit (Greek: pneuma, πνευμα). Christ was then sent to earth in the form of the man Jesus to give men the gnosis needed to rescue themselves from the physical world and return to the spiritual world. Note that, in Gnosticism, the Gospel story of Jesus is itself allegorical: it is the Outer Mystery, used as an introduction to Gnosis, rather than being literally true in a historical context."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(Gnosticism)

If you follow my indication, it seems that JZ has consciously or unconsciously taken a role as Ramtha's "syzygy" [twin substance] as they are 'one and the same.'
This mimics the Sophia syzygy with Jesus Christ in the Gnostic myths.
Recall that JZ as R said, "I am Christ for you in this age."
This is why J G Melton saw so much Gnosticism in the Ramtha School.

JZ, however, has been a poor imitation of Sophia [wisdom]....that is one major instance where the simili breaks down.

joe i have a question some conspirecie place adolf hitler and rudolf steiner in the theosophy circel.is this thrue?

Hitler's Nazi party connection with Theosophy was through something called Ariosophy [all Theosophy stemming from Blavatsky, AA Bailey and the I AM Activity have elements of racism] that influenced early Nazism.
this is a good description of Ariosophy:
"Ariosophy, occult wisdom concerning Aryans, was coined by Jorg Lanz von Liebenfels (1874-1954) in 1915. This occultism took root in central Europe at the start of the 20th century. It mainly sprung from Theosophical movement, but rejected the Theosophy's commitment to human brotherhood in favor of a system of belief claiming that only people of northern Indo-European, "Aryan," descent were actually human and capable of spiritual development. Ariosophy stemmed from the ideologies shared by most Western countries in the 19th century, but was chiefly formed in the writings of Guido von List (1848-1919) and Liebenfels, two Austrian occultists who contributed important.

As with most occult movements, Ariosophy was not a coherent system as there were various versions of its basic set of beliefs. Apparently there was a general consensus that modern humanity was descendents from two different species: Aryans, who were the true human beings, and non-Aryans, who were soulless animals who happened to look like humans. Modern Europeans were descendents of interbreeding between the species, while people of other races were simply animals lacking human, Aryan, blood. The interbreeding with other races was said to be the cause for the Aryan race to lose some supernatural powers that were originally its birthright which the study of occultism sought to restore.

Ariosophy greatly influenced the spread of the mysticism of Nazism. Much of the Nazi program during the 1920s and 1930s was simply a restatement of Ariosophical ideas. It is known that Adolf Hitler subscribed to an Ariosophical magazine when living in Vienna, and many of the higher officials of the Third Reich had Ariosophical connections. Although it appears that Ariosophy was influential on the formation of Nazism, many scholars were quick to point out they did not think it should be held responsible for terrible incidents such as Auschwitz.

Similar ideas, although from different historical roots, were embodied in the Christian Identity movement, an occult-influence religious and political movement, which emerged in America during the mid-twentieth century. A.G.H."

http://www.themystica.org/mystica/articles/a/ariosophy.html

The Nazis were at odds with all other forms of occultism including that of Steiner despite similarities, so Anthroposophy was suppressed in Germany under Hitler. Think of occult organizations today---all are elitist with their own special "vertical" connection to the Pure Source.

to continue: Steiner was a Theosophist under the Blavatsky Lodges until 1912 or so. Steiner disagreed with Besant and Leadbeater's orientalizing the occult--this turn occurred in 1907 when Leadbeater first promoted J Krishnamurti, then age 13, as the "New World Teacher" [Maitreya]. Steiner took the whole German section of Theosophy and renamed it Anthroposophy with his emphasis on the "Christ" following a Rosicrucian angle to mysticism.

one last thing on Steiner for those sympathetic....I am not implying that he was "racist" in his activity or intent, but some of his bizarre, mystical ideas about human origins have been used against him in the past.

thanks joe. good to know history.

well so we have the thought line of the ranch.yelm divided in ramsters [the true ariens]and all the mixed races.and then someone writs that the nisqually news trys to divide the comunity.if you think i am joking there r enough remarks from jzr about villigers and masters.there r also remarks like the jews are the bigest victims.and suportiv remarks via adolf.during the time i believed in ramtha i allways wonderd why jzr intermingels all kind of reflections about politics history....in her 'pure'teachings.we will see were this all goes.

Joe - incredible post sharing your understanding re: theosophy. Is this knowledge something you studied as part of your work as exit counsellor? I am sure it is essential in unraveling belief systems, reality derails etc in mental institutions too.

Thx - it is shocking to see how all new age stuff is sourced similarly. and I never thought about how racism could be a root cause/reason for occultism too.. wow, have to think about that for a while.

the history of the occult and new age occultism since the Renaissance is the history of grandiose and delusional men and women trying to do a leap over or an end run around science.
Such folks always claim to have "special insight" or "special powers" unknown to the scholars struggling with facts and reality. Partly, I think this comes from a human need to know the deep mysteries of existence and to predict the future. I can understand that but I no longer tolerate the fake bs that passes for channeling, astrological prediction, telepathy, mental healing, etc. The Theosophists were trying to establish a "science" of the occult in the late 19th century to compete with natural science. their first attempt at organization before the Theosophical Society [1875] was called the "Miracle Club." They wanted to prove that miraculous "phenomena" exist and can be produced at will.
Blavatsky once called science a "strutting gamecock" and promised to outdo it with her "evidence" which was all psychic smoke and mirrors in then end-----remind you of anyone?????

The science and sociology of the day in the 19th century had racist elements [manifest destiny, survival of the fittest], so occultists followed suit with their "more profound" theories about "root races" and odd fantasies about aliens mating with apes to make "black folks," etc. The founder of my old cult CUT, Mark Prophet taught that latter bit of racist trivia in secret...
Today occultists like JZ/R try to outdo/outrun research in physics and quantum research but make the same old mistakes.

Did they ever mention the shepherds in the lonely fields? (insert dry sense of humour here). Just imagine. One could sheer the wool off of their torso and knit a "magical elfin cape." (insert sarcasm here)

I know this question sounds stupid, G2G, but, where did "magical elfin capes" fit in with the teachings or practices at the school? was it a tribute to Lord of the Rings? Or, was it just that they were for sale at that store? I don't get it.