I will post the full article when it hits the internet, but tonight, I was 1) glad, EMF was on the front page 2) the NVN felt they had to inform and ask "the other side" "what is David and EMF all about."
Do you know Mike-so-Right's answer was?

EMF and David McCarthy ( via Joe Szmihart )are on a money making adventure.

Those fng *******s!!!
Do they even KNOW, Joe has a j o b...for regular income??
Do they KNOW, what David feeds his dog??
Do they know, David cannot even pay his property taxes?
So you know what I say to you, Mike-so-right (all the staff sais that about you behind your back....)
maybe mind your own business.
and take your side kick in your lame ass
office, Steve Klein.
Until 2 years ago, he was a "donating nobody."
All of a sudden, he is a comrade, and runs for mayor of Yelm
Steve.....you are a *******
Not to mention, you "converted" from being a "crossover" to being a "man".
And from a Jew to , uh, oops,,, I forgot.
How about, I ask your sister , who I have had dinner with, and is gay.
ASK...for a family member's view....of what transpired, in the family member who is still associated with RSE.
I frickin" tell you...
I don't care what some friggin court has to say.
Ask a **** load of PROFESSIONALS
(you might want to note that JZ....not ones that you can buy off)
what are the ramifications of a cult?!
Ask professionals of the brain.
Not some court system who has been bought off.
BTW....
more to come on the political front.
You people are in for a BIG sruprise.


You can knock David all you want.
But when I stand up..I will tell all.

How odd. I don't see either David's or Joe's homes in "Scalamandre's Luxurious Homes."

But JRZ's is right there.

My, the tangled webs they weave, once they practice to deceive -
(and I don't mean the blue or golden ones, at that). My feelings are if that is the height of what they could 'muster,' David and all of you, Joe, etc., are doing a most significant piece of work in helping people out, and preventing more "holocausts of the mind and spirit." Thank you repeatedly.

Truth ALWAYS prevails.

Thanks, Tree. Would love to be there, but it's difficult for me to return there as of yet. Feel the real JOY of truth being revealed.

they still do not have this week's article up yet, but keep checking.
Front page.
Pardon my exlosiveness last night.
It was utterly shocking to see how far
Mike Wright et al, will go to defend
their beliefs.
Now attacking David's personal income,
how he paid income taxes (or not) and now looking into claiming his undocumented alien status.
They will be opening up a can of worms for sure.
Just have an agent sit in the parking lot of Safeway.....point out all the illegals as they go in and out.
Nice job Mike and JZ.
Ruin people's lives some more.
Do you two not have better things to do? like C & E, archery? maybe just stay in your own back yards?

http://yelmonline.com/main.asp?Top=1&SectionID=1

You said it Tree !! It is in fact defending BELIEFS.....or is it their income ?

They have to resort to other tactics as those current in RSE aren't invited to the gathering.

If it worked so well there would be no need to defend anything as the proof would be plainly observable.

So JZ-MRight dug deep and could only come up with the character assassination attempts against David that challenge his financial motivations and his personal financial situation, as well as citizen status ?

That tells me we are collectively doing a FINE job!

They need to keep opening their mouths. They support our cause with each word.

The paid ads in the papers by JZ, as an attempt to stroke her (my opinion) narcissistic sociopathy, and also do damage control, followed by an attempted character assassination against David, when she finds out about Another LARSE Gathering - is a compliment.

In her need to try and cause trouble for David, she has just shed light upon the overall issue of the MANY illegal aliens in the greater Yelm community that are students (or ex) of RSE.

This tells us JUST how high maintenance the woman is. She will bring down anything or anyone around her, in her attempt to save face and/or do damage to David.

David has nothing to lose. Plus, he has TRUTH on his side. A win-win combination.

This isn't about bank accounts, it's about justice.

Let it prevail, because of the TRUTH.

well that r deep insights.i am realy confused now.so aliens like mitya,the former italien leader of rse,several red guards like christian,and the bathroomcleaner from holand?......are good aliens?they made it to legal status?and all the european which have a realy smal chance to get a visa nowadays r good aliens untill they used up their funds and stop suporting jzrs buisness.than they r bad alienens?and the stranded ones in the woods r ready to get backstabed from rse if they dont agree with the humanitarien cult leader?ye rse is good honest american buisness.jzr sets her staff on unemployment. still runs events in this time and all her staff works for free and the people donate.however this in full aplience with laws.nothings in the books nothing traceable.i love success storys.there r no prisoners on her grounds?ever tried to leave an event?mike you r a lier.sent mr klein to the meeting that everybody sees what a lier he is. stating he is only involved as a student in rse during his majorcampain.now a figuerhead there.i trust the people of yelm that they make up theire mind on theire own.well jzr has a second income if her school fails.hope her employes could save enough for rainy days.

I'm still scratching my head and wondering why Wright and company haven't changed their timelines! Don't they do their disciplines? Imagine, according to RSE teachings, each and every time EMF is in their reality, THEY created it. Goes for JZR too.

Not that easy, eh Mike?

JZR informed people as a "channel" that Yelm was the only safe place on the planet; and people flocked to her retreats, leaving their families and belongings and stayed on. JZR ought sign an affidavit of support for every single one of these people, for had it not been for her frightening portrayal of "Days to Come" and "would you follow me" - how many of these people would have left their homes and lives?

David is an honorable man. I had the great honor of speaking with him, and his sincerity is palpable even across the miles.

RSE just can't seem to get on another "timeline." I'm quite frankly, astonished (sarcasm intended)

JZ herself uses illegal aliens in a bartering arrangement.

I personally know a long term parking crew member gets a substantial disount for events for his occupation directing vehicles at events. He is on the parking crew at most events.

I know foreigners short of cash are also used on the bathroom cleaning crews.

I thought the newspaper story was well done and fair. Their job was to put the facts out there, and let the readers make their own judgments. And that's exactly what's happening on this board.

A job well done, I'd say.

there is no complaint about the newspaper.just about the dirty fight of jzr

as I was driving to town, I had the same thoughts. The BEST reply RSE/JZ/ Mike Wright can do is to character assasinate?
Just as a Red Guard did to me.
What is their point?
Why not get some scientific facts Mike, instead of assasinating someone's character?
We could do the same to you and the rest of the staff.
But we don't.
We are simply here to educate people as to the nature of cercive persuasive groups.
We DO HAVE scientific research to back up what we say.
Even the scientific "study" done on JZ was not fully scientific.
It lacked many faculties, and then when it was put up for peer review, it was denied.
See that Mike??? Denied. Meaning, they would no longer continue to support such a
"study" because it lacked integrity.
So, the study went no further.
Maybe JZ and Mike could pursue that angle.
And I don't want to hear about your
quantum-pseudo-science-phyiscs for back up. I can get Carrol Cobbs to give you a lesson or two there.
uh-Mike, btw, do you have a phd?mmmmm
didn't think so.
JZ? you have one?? mmmmmm don't think so.
Try again.

Personally, I thought the article was good, too. It reported the facts. It would be good if it continued to report the facts, because there are PLENTY of issues that could be addressed right from this website....and...no....we're not gettin' rich from this site. Quite the contrary - it has been personal out of pocket expenses by regular folks, because they believe in the cause. Individuals have a right to that. Unfortunately for Ms. Knight, that's out of her control. Awww, shucks.

If people want to put up a website, buy ads, etc., they have a right to do so. AND it's legal. Imagine that ?

I would have preferred it not to be referred to as the Nisqually Valley Screamer

I understand that it is sometimes called that, but I feel compassion for the journalists who are trying to do their job, and have to read that. On behalf of EMF, I personally apologize for it, though I did not do it. I don't endorse it.

wow , feels like I got a slap on the hand from mommy.
I was not aiming at the NVN directly becase because I think ALL forms of media pretty much have an agenda. This is all the intention was.

Thanks.

Nisqually Valley News
Friday October 26 2007

Ex-Ramtha students holding 'cult' discussion on Saturday
RSE questions motives of meeting’s leaders

Megan Hansen
Staff Reporter

Because of plans to hold a meeting on cults, a group of former students at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment are coming under fire from JZ Knight and her representatives.

The meeting, "Cults in Our Neighborhood?" is set for 7 p.m. Saturday at Yelm Middle School. It is free and open to the public.

"There is a side of RSE that very few people know about, (that) even the media has not reported on," said former RSE student David McCarthy, leader of the Life After RSE group, which is holding the meeting.



Joe Szimhart, described as a cult exit counselor, will be the keynote speaker at Saturday's meeting.

McCarthy said Szimhart will address the following questions: "What is a cult?" "When are they harmful?" "What is the impact of cults on individuals? On family? On our community?"

Mike Wright, products and services manager at the Ramtha school, said Wednesday he is disappointed that these issues are being raised again in relation to RSE.

"These issues have been resolved by the court in the past," Wright said.

Wright added that he informed Knight of the meeting

"Ms. Knight has grown weary of being accused of being a leader of a destructive cult by people who are motivated either by malice, the need for recognition or by the prospect of making money."

In 1992, Pierce County Superior Court ruled that RSE is not a cult, and that Knight is not brainwashing people, said Wright.



RSE investigated McCarthy, and found he was once a member of "Divine Light Mission," a spiritual organization in England run by Guru Maharaji, according to Wright.

"He left England disenchanted, and is listed as an ex-member on a critical Web site called, www.ex-premie.org."

"We have been unable to determine that he has legal residency in the United States, or that he has ever paid taxes on his personal income," Wright said in an e-mail sent to the Nisqually Valley News.

"From where does his income derive? Is there a partnership between Joe Szimhart and David McCarthy?"

"It appears that Szimhart, and now perhaps David McCarthy, are in it for the money."

"The word 'cult' is their business calling card."

"I am an undocumented alien, like many RSE students," McCarthy said. "When you move here, you're convinced you're going to change your reality - literally going to create a green card."

McCarthy countered Wright questioning his citizenship by questioning the resident status of some of the RSE students that Knight employs.

McCarthy said he was hired to repair doors in "The Great Hall" at the school at one time.

"I'm an example of someone who's been hiding away from authorities in fear of being deported," McCarthy said.

"If she wants to open that can of worms. I'm willing to go there."

He called Wright's assertions a diversionary tactic.

"I'm here talking about residency and taxes instead of the real issues," McCarthy said.

"There are hundreds of foreigners out in the woods without papers. If they're going to be kicked out of the country, there needs to be an investigation into JZ.

"She's turning a blind eye to the illegal aliens coming into the country."

In response, Wright said, "We don't (employ illegal aliens).

"We have been audited by (Washington State Labor and Industries) and are in full compliance."

McCarthy scoffed at Wright's suggestion that he and Szimhart are business partners who stand to make money off Saturday's meeting.

"That's absolute nonsense," McCarthy said.

"I challenge anybody to come and see how my family lives."

"We didn't make property tax this year," McCarthy said. "We're living week to week. "

Szimhart is not making money off of Saturday's meeting because he waived his usual fee, McCarthy said.

Regardless of what he sees as an attempt to derail Saturday's meeting, McCarthy said that he and other former students of RSE will be sharing their personal experiences at the school for the first time in public.

"What we want to share is the truth and let the public make their own mind up," McCarthy said.

Very few people will be speaking out against JZ (Knight), primarily because of a very detailed contract they were required to sign before attending events at RSE, said McCarthy.

Within the document, participants agree not to discuss, teach or disseminate any information obtained during an event.

In an older copy of an apparent contract, provided to the Nisqually Valley News, participants at RSE had to agree not to release anything they believe they received from Ramtha in a dream, vision or discipline, or any other source.

McCarthy said the contract was reviewed by lawyers, however, and he was been told it will not stand up in court.

Wright said this week that RSE is planning to have a representative from the school attend Saturday's meeting, one who will speak if given the opportunity.

RSE will not try to interfere with the meeting, Wright said.

The school's not going to impede on their free speech, he said. There are some people who believe and some who don't.

"Belief is a protected right."

McCarthy said the meeting is open, and any representative from RSE who wants to speak will be allowed to do so.

"We want to give people information," McCarthy said.

RSE, he said, "is not a school, it's a corporation."

"(Students) are not prisoners, not isolated from society," Wright said. "People are free to leave at any time."

McCarthy said that we spent seven years attending RSE after leaving his family in New Zealand. At that time, he said he was told it was a seven-year school, and after those seven years, one of the people in his group would become a Christ.

"I think I have a right to speak and tell my story, criticize," McCarthy said. "It's a cult."

Wright maintains that the school is not a cult, and says McCarthy is simply a disgruntled former student with an ax to grind.

Since leaving RSE in 2000, McCarthy was instrumental in helping to form LARSE.

LARSE held a gathering in September 2006 at Millersylvania Park near Olympia.

McCarthy is also an active participant on the online bulletin board, "Enlighten Me Free," described as a "forum for support, sharing opinions and experiences for those who have left RSE and have doubts and concerns about their tenure there."

Nisqually Valley News link..

http://yelmonline.com/


Thank you NV News..

David.

So Judith..
You have investigated me have you....
Why didn’t you just ask “Ramtha”?

Is this my dastardly past you are referring to…

McCarthy, David
Date: April 16, 2004
Email: whereyabeen{at}ywave.com
Resides: Washington State, USA
Was a premie from: 1974
At age: 22
Premie until: 1989
Premie houses/ashrams lived in: Palace of peace maintenance manager then Audio Visual Manager + Ashram flute player, lived in the DLM Ashrams London and Banbury.

Link..
http://www.ex-premie.org./pages/wt_pages_gm.htm

Now what about that interview I keep requesting?
"Ramtha" or you. It really makes no difference to me!

Name the place and time...
Just Me, You, and my DV camera...


David.

The wind was blowing today and I heard Ramtha calling in the breeze, "David McCarthy is right on."

""These issues have been resolved by the court in the past," Wright said. "


How about consulting some professional psychiatrists and psychologists?

well, how about a little education concerning "closed system" coersive groups?
And the damage to a personality and the mind that a cult causes?
Not to mention leading them to death and destruction through tactics of fear that long lives on after having been in such a group.

"Ms. Knight has grown weary of being accused of being a leader of a destructive cult by people who are motivated either by malice, the need for recognition or by the prospect of making money." "


I know for myself, I definitely don't need the recognition....not my style.
and that is laughable...making money by exiting people from groups.
Have you seen what kind of food David's dog gets??



malice....hmmm...now there is a loaded word.

I believe we are just pointing out the inconsistancies of the group.

If there were malice, we would be acting out like Mike Wright, Laura Mooney and now Steve Handlan.....trying to hurt others by character assasinations.
Instead of defending what is right and true about the school, these people are throwing stones at those who are speaking out about the inconsistancies.
now THAT is malice.

My 2 cents,

I havent been here in awhile, and missed the meeting..

Good work everyone getting the meetings downtown!!
This forum represents Alot of different people having varying aspects of Dismay at having been to RSE, and experiencing the often Subtle forms of coercion involved in the whole thing. There are many examples of Powerful people knowingly preying on trusting, vulnerable individuals, races, groups, lovers, etc. This situation here is a micro of the macro, on earth.
Was Mike Wright Coerced/ordered to go to the meeting? Why bother? It just fanned the flames back to the ranch, IMO.
....I had a "vision" of JZ deciding to retire before its too late..[or resign, like our other warmongers have been doing]...I wondered how well she would be recieved if she ever had a breakdown and gave up the Ram altogether? Who would she be? And the house, and the money, and all the fame.. I kept imagining her choosing to be humble and simple again, and let people find thier Power on thier own, now that they have "all the tools" necessary, of course, which we do. Look at Martha Stewart!
I wondered how rehab would feel to her, and how people in this forum would treat her during some form of 12 steps. Would she be loved, forgiven, and helped? Is it even possible to let "Ramtha" go? {"You can Do Anything!!!"]
I figured shed become even more popular anyway, and could actually keep a school open, only without all the Drama of Ramtha. Just a simple school that teaches Quantum science. I myself had incredible great new things happen in that name field and from the "disciplines", which I ONLY DID WHEN AND HOW I FELT LIKE IT!!! that was my key to keeping my free will. Like driving a car...
A school with no Ramtha...With on Campus housing...Hey, how about buying a few hundred local acres, building affordable housing for students??? and LIKE MINDED PEOPLE, [the army you know]... Something innovative, that reflects the New World were supposed to be creating. WE.
She really doesnt make herself look good selling all this smelly retail crap that all the wealthy mainstream already do enough of. Red Flag..
So I just wondered how she'd sleep at night if she just let it all go? Quit sending the boys out to fight for her, and quit while ahead, creating a mirror not pleasent to keep looking into. Would you love her too then David? What if she IS just incredibly mind controlled and has become like her masters? And what if she gave it up???
I saw something was up back in 91 or whenever, when she came out and adressed us in the arena that the media was about to come into the privacy of the school, and take pictures and such, as Jeff was doing the lawsuit. I watched her tell her side of the story of how he betrayed her, brought home his lovers, did this and that, bla bla.. I watched her eyes blinking alot, and I kept waiting for her to ADMIT something along the lines of what HE was reflecting to HER about HERSELF. But all she did was blame him, and take the position of being the victim of his false accusations. I was dissapointed that she didnt seem to be following Ramthas teachings.
So now here she is having to listen to a bunch of "victims" complaining.
So I wonder where all this will be in 10 years. Any remote viewers have a look???

Thanks to David and Tree and everyone here, for your courage and strong vulnerability. Its so right to speak out to injustice, even if you have to get labeled along the way.....
the truth will pull your hair...

An Opinion:

About JZ being proven in court (previously) as not being a fraud...

whatever. I hardly call that biased study conclusive of anything. It did NOT follow scientific criteria, but we paid for by JZ, and seems to be biased. For the few folks who read the FULL report, the conclusions were not definite.

My opinion is that JZ needs a full psychological evaluation. One doctor, Peter Olsson, holds an opinion about a diagnosis for her. He thinks she's a narcissist with borderline personality disorder.

Other people's opinions have oft times mentioned sociopathy.

My point is, that would be useful information, because if a diagnosis was found, it would explain much.

Even looking at "Ramtha's" behavior - it fits the profile of a sociopathic guru.
Description: http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm#Guru

Here is an excerpt from a book on cults, "Elizabeth sank into a pit of despair, darker than she ever could have imagined was possible.

From the adolescent gullibility which seduced her astray, to the enlightenment which led her to freedom, you will travel an incredible journey. For anyone who has ever been trapped by a person who would not let them go, within this book lies a message of hope."

I laughed when I read "the enlightenment which led to her freedom". Sounds like EMF. We all travel such a similar path out of cults and into freedom.

Whatcha

The Nov 2 2007 issue of the NVN hit the stands this afternoon.
I thought both pieces by Megan were very unbiased.
(The stories are not on the website as of yet).
She did a very observational piece about each speaker.
When it comes available, I am sure someone will post both stories.

oh.....
and also they printed a very well written letter to the editor from
journeythroughramthaland
most excellent.

Quoting Mike Wright, products and services manager at the Ramtha school;

"Ms. Knight has grown weary of being accused of being a leader of a destructive cult by people who are motivated either by malice, the need for recognition or by the prospect of making money."

My comment
Befor becoming involved in RSE, my Mom was always comfortably well off, but over the years of her involvement in RSE, she has become increasingly impoverished. The irrational choices my Mom has made, which led to this impoverishment, were guided by JZ's so called teachings.

Prior to my Mom becoming involved in RSE she had close relationships with me and my siblings. Our family has had no choice but to listen to all the BS this so called school has pumped into my Mom's mind. It is like someone sucked out all her insides of who she used to be and replaced it with Ramtha fluff and goo. This has severely damaged the quality of our family relationships. Ms. Knight has made a nice chunk of money filling my Mom's head with this BS. Wright has a lot of nerve to try and twist this around into JZ Knight being the victim.

Accusing people like David, who are trying to help others, of just looking for an opportunity to make money or gain recognition, only shows how little respect these folks have for truth and goodness.

It seems very dishonest and manipulative .

Motivated by malice? Considering the effects this school has on peoples lives and families, you don't think RSE deserves some substantial criticism Mr Wright?

Wright
"We have been unable to determine that he has legal residency in the United States, or that he has ever paid taxes on his personal income," Wright said in an e-mail sent to the Nisqually Valley News.

My comment
Yelm is full of people who aren't legally in the States, who came there like David did, to attend RSE. The people running the so called school must know this, but seem to happily accept these people as customers.

Interesting how RSE takes those peoples money, without drawing attention to the question of whether they have legal residency or not, and this only gets brought up when someone like David has the courage to expose the damage believing in snake oil, can do to peoples lives.

quoting someone in that article
"Belief is a protected right."

Not when it's someone promoting a belief about a product, which doesn't work as advertised. Then it
probably falls more into the category of consumer fraud, and false advertising. Which is NOT a protected right.

The way this has affected our family, I don't see why anyone would think the people running RSE are any more ethical than drug dealers.

Good for all of you, for speaking the truth about the people making big bucks, running this school of befuddlement.

As a family member who has been adversely affected by this, I really appreciate and support your efforts to help people see this school for what it is.

I hope people see the tactics to intimidate and discredit you for what they are. These RSE people need to take a good look at themselves in the mirror. What they are doing to peoples lives for money isn't OK.

The issue of students being illegal aliens has been addressed in audience, from the stage. It's not a secret by any means. For Mike Wright to even imply that RSE is unknowing about the status of many, many illegal aliens as students there, is untruthful.

So much for impeccability, hey Mike ? Would you protect your Boss at any cost ? RSE makes it's own problems by the shoddy way it is run.

Pharmaceutical companies get heavy criticism for putting PROFITS BEFORE PEOPLE.

Guess who else fits that description ?

Why is JZ/Ramtha-the-Almighty One unaccomodating toward David's request for an interview ? Does she think she's too superior ? Or the soup's too hot?

"Why is JZ/Ramtha-the-Almighty One unaccomodating toward David's request for an interview ?"

I can tell you.
1)She thinks David is beneath her.
and
2)she gave up a 6 minute piece on Northwest Afternoon this past Monday, the day after the LARSE gathering because, and I quote:
her staff relayed that the media would shed a bad light on her.

Wait till Dave Ross asks her back.
And she backs out.


Soon, into a corner she will go.
And we all know what trapped animals
act like.

Interesting about the NW afternoon piece... I have always found it strange that JZ lets herself be sheltered by her staff the way she does. Doesn't she realize that she's getting a skewed sense of reality? Oh wait, maybe they're just returning the favor .

What's wrong with this picture if you have to always choose media outlets who are favorable toward you? Can't face the tough questions, huh?

Dave Ross has always been very respectful toward JZ, yet unafraid to ask what's on everybody's mind. I look forward to that next interview (if it happens...).

"I have always found it strange that JZ lets herself be sheltered by her staff the way she does."

she makes it LOOK like the staff protects her. But believe me, SHE and SHE only, calls the shots.

Was it not quite "Mike" who was quoted as saying: ""Ms. Knight has grown weary of being accused of being a leader of a destructive cult by people who are motivated either by malice, the need for recognition or by the prospect of making money." "


My question is still this, Mike and Judith.

Why have you both manifested this into your lives? You obviously wished for this in your reality, so why be tired and weary?

Simply change your timeline, as you've told your students so often.

What? YOU can't do it?

G2G,

Excellent point. This is the sort of thing I'm referring to in my other post, about talking to someone when you're trying to help them realize they are in a cult and being duped. Instead of trying to prove to someone that Ramtha's a fraud, etc...skip that part. Address the bold discrepancies between the actions, words, and reality.

There are just too many of them to ignore. At the very least, either a person's defense mechanisms are SO strong that they're not going to listen, or, the seed of doubt will be fertilized.

Since JZ is getting weary of us, maybe she'll just cash in her chips, and go run from it, to another country. That would be nice of her - just take your money and go retire with it. Why did she create a reality where she is weary of criticism ? Why isn't she ascending and getting younger, and loving her "folkies" with such zeal and so unconditionally, that they are all healed of every ailment they may have ? Or raining wealth upon them ? She said she can send runners. PROVE IT.

Hopefully, nobody will hold their breath, waiting.

"Hopefully, nobody will hold their breath, waiting."


LOL! Think that's the "hidden" meaning of "blue body?"

Whatchamacallit wrote: "...Why did she create a reality where she is weary of criticism ? Why isn't she ascending and getting younger, and loving her "folkies" with such zeal and so unconditionally, that they are all healed of every ailment they may have ? Or raining wealth upon them ? She said she can send runners. PROVE IT."

Bingo! Bingo! BINGO!! Let's see JZ and the teachers and the students do these things that 'you shall do greater,' as the ascended one said. There's been too much talk, and nobody walkin the talk..not even JZ or the teachers.

She (JZ) should be walking around with joy and a glow of love on her face, if she knows that all that she is, is legit. There shouldn't have to be no defense from her side, if all she teaches is, the truth.

If a person is strong in their beliefs and convictions, then what nobody say, should have no effect on their disciplines. What appalls me the most (about the people at the school) is the course and duplicitious manner by which they are going about, trying to lambaste those that challange them and the 'teachings.'

Wow...waking up does feel kinda groggy, but once you're standing on your own two feet and are aware..the day begins to look so much more brighter.

"...trying to lambaste those that challenge them and the teachings."

Yes, it does come across that way but to be fair the reaction is part of their "programming." NOT ALLOWED TO DOUBT does not leave any room for exchanging ideas. Furthermore, "Ramtha" is authoritarian, meaning his/her way is the ONLY way. This is one of the conditions that defines RSE as a cult.

BTW, IUB, if waking up feels "kinda groggy" good for you. There can be a lot more pain, confusion and despair involved depending on how far down the rabbit hole one goes.

If you can help anybody else, do it. At least you understand and are not too debilitated to act.

Re: 'For Mike Wright to even imply that RSE is unknowing about the status of many, many illegal aliens as students there, is untruthful.'

Within the past 12 months, there WERE undocumented, illegal aliens employed, one at RSE and one at CSE and Mike Wright knew about it. Last fall, all employees at these organizations were scrutinized for legal status. Two women were found to be aliens without green cards, thus illegal and undocumented. They were dismissed from their positions immediately (same day, I believe.) As JZ's organizational mouthpiece, Mr. Wright was in charge of supervising the accomplishment of this 'house cleaning.'

The 2 are still in the area, not at all pleased with their treatment. But how can they come forward? still illegal.

yes, 'eyeswideopen' I've been directing as many people as I can, to this fourm. Especially when I come across a site (or group fourm) that's talking about 'what the bleep.' I would carefully ask them to seek another POV before going deeper down that rabbit hole.

oh...and I forgot...the same week NVN made the story about the upcoming LARSE meeting, I wrote a letter to the editor:

http://yelmonline.com/main.asp?Top=1&SectionID=27&SubSectionID=62&ArticleID=2902&TM=40582.45

I got the information about Jean Marie handing out Ramtha paraphenalia on Bettye Johnson's e-mail list.
Bettye has now unsubscribed me.
awwww.....

and....the reason why a Ramster followed me around town was, not to contend the rape thing, but to ask me why I was writing letters to the editor about
"Billy's mother".
wow.
Just write a letter to the editor you Ramsters.
Go ahead.
Let the stupidity flow against "all those Christians".
I hope the Christian community really makes a rally against such prejudice.

It reminds me of years ago when students were told,

"Only the TRUTH can cause such (reactions)...

remember?

if you read the letters to the editors you can read 2 [whini]responses how bad jz knight got treated from the paper.no statment from rse nothing.i think the paper is balanced enough.giving steve hanley imidied respons oportunity.anybody know what' move on in your live' means from a ramster?does it mean not state your opinion?glorivy rse or be stuck in your live?

"move on in your life" - means for her or anyone to forget about her/their rape - forget about her past - create a new "neuronet" in her mind of a new "mind neighborhood" where the rape NEVER occurred.

It's not the way humans deal with trauma. I'm thinking, and I was one of them, the RSE students have had "mind transplants" - Battlestar Galactica Cylons have more compassion. Tree courageously stepped up and spoke out, unlike the RSE-errors who hid behind the false words and false blonde god.

Very sad for any woman who has been raped or abused.

my understanding of "moving on" from a ramster, was that we should shut up and go away in silence, instead of talking openly about our experiences, questions, doubts, criticisms.

at the time of the first larse gathering, some staff were saying just that. telling us we didn't need to "start" all of this commotion. that we should just decide the school isn't for us and "move on".

nope.

they don't define "moving on" for us - we define it for ourselves. moving on means getting our personal lives back on track as best we're each able to do so, and to speak the truth about our past experiences. not cover it up and hide it. or live in fear that the big kahuna is gonna git us.

when some of the first newspaper articles came out, in the nvn, about the first larse gatherings, the staff commented that we should not have had a front page article (who are they to decide that?). also, that we should have gone to rse with our concerns, instead of going public with such as the larse gathering.

when i heard that, i laughed so hard ! no way do they want to hear criticism of rse !!!!!!! they simply tell you "you created it", and that you're a victim, change your timeline, etc.

the larse gatherings, 1 and 2, were long overdue. their time has come.

Does anyone know, just exactly 'who' is currently considered to be staff? Has there indeed been a falling away of the comrades in past few months or year(s)? Or perhaps stated differently, who, after all this time, is still on the staff, red guard or comrades?

The comrades were disbanded a few years ago, when Ramthim-her announced that they were slackers who didn't perform up to the standard he expected them to.

Question: Why didn't Ramthim-her know in advance that they wouldn't measure up ? Why did he create that reality ??

Why did the comrades create that reality instead of creating that they were Gods Realized ?? Their focus wasn't good enough, eh ?

I'm not talking about the TRAPPINGS of psychic development, either. Reading cards, doing remote view...big deal. Those are trappings that can feed one's ego, but they don't better humanity. Show me someone who can ascend from flesh into spirit, right in front of our eyes. And back again. Heal the dead - the sick. Move a mountain. Manifest food and money and eradicate poverty, starvation, rape, murder, WAR, pollution, tsunamis, Columbines, drunk driver murders, kidnappings, etc. Eliminate those things. Then, you will have my attention.

Nisqually Valley News, Friday, November 2, 2007

By Megan Hansen.

Ex-students take on Ramtha school.

A public gathering of former Ramtha School of Enlightenment students drew nearly a hundred people to Yelm Middle School Saturday.
The topic was cults, and speakers included former RSE students who formed a support group called "Life After RSE," a cult exit specialist and a Lacey pastor.
A representative of RSE was also granted time behind the micro¬phone to rebut allegations made against the school and refute assertions that the school is a "cult."
Through her representatives, RSE channeler JZ Knight herself has said she has grown weary of being called a leader of a destructive cult by people who are motivated by malice or the desire to make money.
FORMER RSE student David McCarthy, an organizer of the forum, gave his account of 'Ramtha-land," as he calls it.
In 1989, when McCarthy joined he school, he said he was told one of the people in his group would become a Christ and that he would achieve enlightenment and learn the meaning of life.
"I was in a place in my life where I was panicked and in a lot of pain," McCarthy said. "I was told miracles were happening here, extraordinary things were happening."
"People were being healed of cancers and could manifest some-something out of nothing."
"I found it very difficult to express the truth for a very long time," McCarthy said.

Using the analogy of the canary in a coal mine, in which coal miners brought the bird down into the shaft with them in order to determine if air was running out, McCarthy said, "The canary died in me."
"It represented my conscience”.
MCCARTHY SAID his biggest concern, and the primary reason for organizing Saturday's meeting, is people's health, and addressing the idea they can heal themselves.
"I've had a friend die in my arms and say he's going to Ramtha," McCarthy said. "I asked him, 'why didn't you go to Ramtha to heal you?'"
"He said he did. Ramtha said, 'I'm not ready.'"
McCarthy also talked about a woman named who was dying of cancer, but wouldn't seek treatment because it was against the teachings of the school.
"I've had friends die looking for Ramtha," McCarthy said. "I see too many people die looking for a miracle that doesn't exist." "It's suicide."
AUDIENCE MEMBER Kevin McManus, a student of the Ramtha School of Enlightenment,lashes out against meeting organizer David McCarthy.shouted angrily at McCarthy from the second row.
"What's your point?"
| McManus asked. "What would you like to do about it? Remove JZ?"
"You can't take away our First Amendment right to practice our religion freely."
McCarthy responded with questions directed toward McManus and other RSE stu¬dents.
"Why don't you go heal (Julie’s) cancer?" McCarthy
| asked.
"Show us.""What are you masterful at?" McCarthy then asked. "When she dies, what are you going to say? She's dancing with Ramtha?"


On whether RSE is a school or a religion, students and RSE marketing managers Greg Simmons and Mike Wright said that RSE runs a curriculum based on science.
"The school looks at divine aspect potential," Wright said. "We focus on the intangible."
"Some see it as a religious position."

Yelm has cults, 'but RSE isn’t one of them'

SIMMONS, WHO is also a teacher at RSE, was granted five minutes to address the audience Saturday.
"I estimate 50,000 to 75,000 students have come through the school,
" Simmons said. "I am encouraged by how few students seem to be dissatisfied."
"Would we love the school to be what everyone wants it to be? Yes."
To the assertions that RSE is a cult, and JZ Knight its leader, Simmons said that's not the case.
"Priests and believers preying on people, people burning in hell," Simmons said. "That is insidious — that is in Yelm, in the Catholic Church."
"So do we have cults in our neighborhood? I think so, but RSE isn't one of them."
On Monday, Simmons clarified his comments during Saturday's meeting.
"If you want to talk about organizations doing harm to society there's no need to look further than the Catholic Church."
"Talk about a disturbing organization."
Simmons also noted examples from other religious organizations.
"You're going to burn in hell — what kind of pep talk is that?"
LOS ANGELES resident Robert Menna, whose daughter is a former RSE student, talked Saturday about how the school affected their relation¬ship.
"When she actually left (to attend RSE) was my awakening," Menna said. "She was insulated so she couldn't respond."
When Menna and his daughter, Alexandra, came to Yelm in 1992, she was 16 and couldn't attend classes. However, she tried to sign up, but couldn't without her father's permission.
When Alexandra was 17 and still determined to enroll at RSE, Menna said she was placed in involuntary cult exit counseling with Szimhart.
She was held in a house for three days for "deprogram¬ming."
Menna said that didn't prove effective and only increased the gap between her and her father.
"It was like being violated, a caged animal," Alexandra Menna said. "He had tricked me, deceived me."
"It was a violation of trust."
Alexandra Menna attended RSE for eight years. It took her three years after the attempted deprogramming to contact her father.
"I decided instead of being the person who was going to take her out of school, I decided I was just going to be her father," Menna said.
Alexandra invited her father to an event, free of charge, to see what she was involved with.
Robert Menna accepted, on the condition he could ask questions.

During the event, Robert Menna was told that students were healing broken bones and teeth, and that there was documentation to prove it.
"I asked to see the documents, and was told I could," he said.
After months of getting the runaround from RSE's administration, Menna said he gave up.
"I'm never going to get information because it doesn't exist," Robert Menna said.
"It's a con, you end up with your pockets empty."
Menna's lack of response from the school also proved to be an eye opener for his daughter.
"THESE THINGS happened," Alexandra Menna said. "I knew the woman who regrew her teeth."
During the time that Robert Menna was pursuing the evidence of healing at the school, Alexandra said she received a telephone call from a former boyfriend.
The boyfriend told her JZ Knight was worried about her, and thought that her father was trying to destroy the school.
Knight, the boyfriend told her, also thought Menna was an undercover reporter who was writing a book.
"This was absurd to me," Alexandra said.
"I knew my father."
Another turning point for Alexandra came when she and her husband decided to pay their rent rather than attend an RSE event.
"It's more important to live the teaching than be at the event," Alexandra said.
After skipping an event, she said it was as if a weight was lifted off her shoulders.
And following the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, Alexandra said she was absolutely shocked to see how students at RSE reacted.
"There was no sense of compassion or realism," she said. "There's something really wrong with that."
"I started to realize that one of the reasons people can't feel compassion is that it hurts."
CHRIS KING, an on- again, off-again student at RSE since 1989, spoke from the audience about his experience at the school.
"I learned how to practically save myself from addiction," King said. "He (Ramtha) gave me the tools to use to be successful." King, a former deacon of a Pentecostal church in the south, contradicted Alexandra Menna's account of not seeing any compassion among students after Sept. 11.
"I have experienced more compassion here," King said. "I got more out of that than anything."
"Love each other, care about each other," he said.
"That's what he (Ramtha) told us to do."
SZIMHART SAID he has
counseled about two dozen ex-RSE students and continues to work with former students when he can.
"Cult is a neutral term," Szimhart said. It is an intense form of devotion to a person or object.
Szimhart showed footage from 1990-91 of a woman who was part of a doomsday cult known as "Circle of Friends." That group was led by George Jurckek, a Hungarian who ulti¬mately was sent to jail for four years for loan fraud
Jurckek had directed group members to apply for state-guaranteed education loans, money not spent on education.
Szimhart said that there were two types of cults — one being benign and the other being totalist, or self sealing.
Totalist cults are considered the more dangerous of the two because members can't grow within the group.
It's hard for them to leave and they can never quite get the magical powers or healing promised to them.
LACEY PASTOR Jeff Adams, who leads Bible study in the Yelm area and is looking at starting a church here, spoke of help and hope being offered to former RSE students.
"Relax, I'm not here to preach," Adams said.
"I'm not a master of anyone or anything. I'm just a ser¬vant."
The community has this "as long as they're not bothering me, I'll leave them alone" mentality, Adams said.
"The community must recognize screams for help."
"I can't simply stand by and let people be hurt," Adams said. "Brainwashed and con¬trolled people."
"Highly intelligent and decent people find themselves hurting and searching for something."
"My primary goal is not to destroy RSE, but undo the damage," Adams said.
"I'm an advocate for healthy community in Yelm."

Nisqually Valley News

link.. http://yelmonline.com/

Thank you Megan Hansen,
Nisqually Valley News.

David.

Ex-student claims she was raped.
'Red Guard' head says encounter was totally consensual.

By Megan Hansen

Nisqually Valley News.
Friday, November 2, 2007.

One woman's claim during Saturday's public meeting that she was raped by a Ramtha School of Enlightenment em­ployee prompted a quick re­sponse from the school.

Karri Konga, who attended RSE for 19 years, took the stage at Yelm Middle School as a speaker and claimed that she was raped after a wine ceremony in 1997. The alleged rape resulted in a pregnancy that she later terminated, Konga said.

Konga did not name the alleged rapist. In a posting on an online support community for former students, however, she has described in detail what she said happened, and claims her assailant was a member of the "Red Guard," a security force at RSE events charged with keeping women and chil­dren safe.

"It took everything I had to get up and speak," Konga said after speaking to the audience. "I almost ran out when I saw all the RSE employees." It has only been five months since Konga left RSE, but she said she is constantly reminded of Ramtha and the teachings.

"Feeling the wind on my face reminds me of Ramtha," Konga said. "I was always told 'I am Ramtha, lord of the wind.'"

Though she didn't name the alleged rapist, the man she accused issued a statement to the Nisqually Valley News Monday via e-mail.

Steve Handlan, leader of the Red Guard, said in a written statement that he did have sex with Konga in 1997, but main­tains it was consensual. "Looking back, I know it was an inappropriate time and place for such activities, despite the fact that it was after hours and consensual between us," he wrote.

RSE property manager James Flick said the school was not aware of the alleged incident until recently, and when they got wind of it, Flick sat down and talked to Handlan and others who had heard about it.

However, since the school sees it as a consensual act and it happened ten years ago, there wasn't really anything we could do, Flick said. "We don't condone any acts like that on the ranch at all."

On Saturday, Konga said she is a lesbian who had never had sex with a man before the alleged rape, and never wanted to.

In his written statement, . Handlan disputes that claim.
After they had sex, Handlan said, "I later learned from anoth­er individual that Karri had told her on Saturday morning that, although she had been a lesbian all her life, she had been curious about what sex with a man was like, and that was why she had done it the night before."

In response, Konga said Monday that Handlan's version of events is untrue.

Deirdre Marshall, a current student, contacted the Nisqually Valley News on Monday at Handlan's request to corroborate his story.

"The following morning (Konga) came up to me and said she spent the night with Steve Handlan," the woman said. "I asked if they had sex and she said, 'yes-'"

"I was surprised because she was a lesbian."

Konga said the conversation with Marshall never happened — that she never spoke with anyone about the incident—and that she was surprised to learn about Marshall's statement.

The two women used to be friends, Konga said.

"They all still belong to that group, so they're going to band together," Konga said.

It wasn't until March of this year, after leaving the group, that Konga said she really under­stood that she was raped.

"At that time, I didn't realize it was rape," Konga said. "I was told I created this on the plane of bliss."

Konga and RSE said they contacted the Thurston County Sheriff’s office report the allegations, but the statute of limitations has run out.

A wine ceremony, according I to some former students, is a sacred ceremony in which par­ticipants drink several glasses of wine at a time and get increas­ingly drunk. The objective is to open one's mind.

Jaime Leal-Anaya, historian and research writer for RSE said wine ceremonies date back to Greek mystery schools, as well as the Christian Eucharist.

"At RSE, Ramtha would lead the participants in a toast or prayer of intent. Usually, one or two toasts were done at the beginning of a teaching," Leal-Anaya said. "Participation with wine was always voluntary."

"Yes, some people used wine ceremonies as an excuse to get drunk. They missed the point and did not participate in the teachings being presented.


Nisqually Valley News.

link.. http://yelmonline.com/

Greg Simmons' remarks about Catholics - how does that go over with the non-RSE Christians in Yelm?! He's not only blindfolded, but is gagging on his own foot stuck inside of his mouth. Why single out only one aspect of Christianity? We have fundamentalist Christian views which have become so involved in politics here - that what is the litmus test for a supreme court justice nominee during the past 8-12 years?

I think LARSE should give Greg the microphone more often, for it exposes the truth within him - and that right now, doesn't appear to be a very "loving" picture.
(was Mike wearing his blue and white hair/"neuronets?")

One other thing I feel ought be brought to attention - the fact that "R" claims to be the "Great Ram of the Hindis people" - expose this to the entire country of India, Nepal (which is a "Hindu kingdom," and all Hindu/Jain/Sikh temples throughout the US, at least. Maybe we should begin emailing the New Delhi Times!

Just my opinions.

The NVNews reported, "Jaime Leal-Anaya, historian and research writer for RSE said wine ceremonies date back to Greek mystery schools, as well as the Christian Eucharist.

"At RSE, Ramtha would lead the participants in a toast or prayer of intent. Usually, one or two toasts were done at the beginning of a teaching," Leal-Anaya said. "Participation with wine was always voluntary."

"Yes, some people used wine ceremonies as an excuse to get drunk. They missed the point and did not participate in the teachings being presented."

I disagree that this is a truthful statement coming from RSE.

STudents were TOLD they HAD TO drink (or leave) as much wine as Ramtha said they must. It usually was 1 - 2 BOTTLES, whereby each student's "partner" had to view the cups of one another.

How far back wine ceremonies date, is irrelevant to the abuse of drinking, to the point of total drunkeness, vomiting, fights, orgies, was ongoing at RSE.

For once, can those mouthpieces for RSE tell the WHOLE truth !???

Oh my. I had no idea that they were encouraged to drink that much wine. However, I can see the alcohol dependency in my realtive whom I a trying to help. Also in her so-called common-law husband. Naturally alcohol can create a temporary euphoria but side effects can be devastating.

As a matter of fact, it was common practice at the beginning of wine ceremonies for the staff to pass out large, plastic VOMIT bags to each student. Hello?

Does that sound like a glass or two of wine with the Big GuyGal ? NOT.

They were pressured greatly, into drinking at least 1 - 2 BOTTLES of wine for each wine ceremony, as common practice.

There were even some children drinking it, and some who even smoked.

A Letter to the Editor of the NVNews stating these things as a rebuttal to the untruths told, would be in order.

I can relate to Angrydaughter's post as I suppose I am also an angry relative. As I learn more about what actually happens at this so-called ranch I begin to understand why many of these posts are so emotionally charged. I have to hold myself back from going on a rant about the Ramtha hypocrisy and this business about the wine and the vommit bags merely builds upon the madness.

1) I was very very angry when the reporter from the NVN had told me Steve Handlan had written to the NVN and finally, for the first time, admitted to the "incident."
and from Steve's view, RSE then took up the same view: it was consensual and over ten years ago. No biggie.
2) the Ranch then dug up a former single mother friend of mine, who I had confided to during the time I found out I was pregnant and was thoroughly distraught about the whole situation.
(She was the one who coached me that I had "created this whole thing on the Plane of Bliss.")
For RSE to get her to write to the NVN that I welcomed the whole idea and I had been thinking and planning it and totally loved it was BEYOND my scope imagination.
Talk about betrayal!!!!
And this was a "friend".
3) Yes, many posts are emotionally charged because what comes out of RSE's mouthpieces are highly minimized snipets of what they call "truth".
Field work might be just an afternoon stroll, in the eyes of RSE, but how about 12 forced hours on the field??? For 1000 people.
A simple "wine ceremony"...is simply not just sipping wine and listening to some "god realized". It is 1-2 bottles, and that after several years of this, produces a group of alcoholics.
A day in the tank is minized to " a great initiation", when in reality, between 5-10 hours, through a forest, through nests of ants, hornets, mud to your shin high,broken legs, without water....
I think you can start to see the disparity of what really goes on vs what is publicized by RSE.
and these are just 3 examples.

ps.
in regards to that fromer single mother friend of mine.
She is an uncodumented illegal alien
(she never had enough money to get a green card) living in US gov't sponsored housing.
Now how is THAT for a reputable source?