Hi Leafinthewind,

In the “sticky” post, “Re: Why I left” on 10-20, you said: “I left the school because of Omega, Wine, and X.” When Cowboy asked you what X meant, you answered: “Cowboy, its Ecstacy. It was everywhere. X.”

Leaf, it appears that you are the first poster on this site to share your opinion that Ecstasy, or X, is used at RSE events. That is quite a bombshell, imo, and I am surprised that nobody else has posted about this. Can you provide more details on what you have witnessed at RSE events relating to this? (I am not in law enforcement or the media, but I did attend journalism school many moons ago, so I would naturally ask the kinds of questions a reporter would ask, and I hope you don’t mind this. I think other contributors to this site would be interested in hearing more from you on this. I am only curious about your OPINIONS, because of course you can’t provide statements of fact.) For example:

--Have you yourself heard JZ or R or RSE staff promote the taking of X at the Ranch, or when RSE students are doing disciplines at home? Have you heard JZ/R or RSE staff teach that X has any benefits related to the RSE “curriculum?”

--Who have you seen taking X at the Ranch: JZ? RSE staff? RSE students over 21? RSE underage students? Have you seen X taken in front of children?

--Have you seen X taken openly at RSE, or have you seen people at RSE events mainly take X in private, such as in the bathrooms or in their own campers or tents?

--When you say X “was everywhere,” can you give a rough estimate on the percentage of RSE students that you have seen taking X at Ranch events?

--How long have you seen X used at RSE events—for how many years?

--Have you seen X used at most events, or just at certain types of events?

Thanks, Leaf.

All I will say is that:
It was absolutely never endorsed by the school. Ram spoke against it once. That it was prevalent in the community among younger age groups in town. That I ran into people who took it at events and that the staff would have expelled them instantly if they knew. I just want to be clear on that.
It is a bombshell, but true.
It wasn't a well kept secret.

The questions you asked are all in relation to RSE. I want to be very clear that it was not RSE involved, but in the community of students. My issue with it was that people who threw around words like "impeccability" were doing things that were anything but. If someone wanted to fry their brain with cho - go ahead, just keep it away from me, keep it away from the school and stop babbling about truth and creating outrageous realities when you cheat your way there. Karma's a b*tch.

Onehand,

MDMA…is a well kept secret for obvious reasons..
Shortly after the David Hudson scam blew through Yelm
ecstasy surfaced within the RSE community.
I was told that this was indeed the “white powder gold” we had all been waiting for!

David.

very prevalent amongst many students.
NOT promoted by JZ or staff.
I personally know of some "inner circle" people that x was very popular with.

There is a poster on EMF who mentioned many months ago, that her boyfriend (if I recall correctly), was at one time attending private parties that involved expensive, "designer" drugs.

Does anyone remember what I'm talking about ?

Here's a question for any RSE staff or current students who read here:

So if R has spoken to the student body against X...

and if R is the all-knowing entity he is portrayed to be...

and if R has often pointed out students and berated them for all kinds of reasons, in front of his audiences...

then why doesn't R simply point out all the X users in his audiences, and either call them up on stage and berate them for going against his wishes, or suspend them for 1 year, or kick them out of his school?

Onehand..

RSE is a cult..

stop making sense..

dark chuckle,

David.

Onehandontheelephant,
I think you should know that this was years ago, it started, like David said, around the David Hudson time- 1995?. I don't have any knowledge of anything related to this after my time there ended there a few years later.

Why would Ramtha continue to waste his time chatising children/adults? He has made it quite clear his stance on this issue. Why waste our retreat time, continuing to lambast stupid students. They are Gods and can do what they want even if Ramtha says not to do it. There is no authority to stop a student from using his/her own free will.

I was recently at an event, even though it had been said many, many times to not drink liquor on the grounds, and specifically in the arena without a wine ceremony being called. I personally know of, seen and was given a small bottle of wine inside the arena, even though I said no I didn't want it. They left it for me anyway when I was not present in my area. I took it out of the arena as soon as I could and put it in my car and took it home, a few days later I dranked it. What can you say? People will always do whatever they want, no matter what the rules are. As it has been said, rules are made to be broken and some people make sure they do break the rules. Those that wished to do so, get away with it and then other students/former students see them. How can their activity be a reflection on me or other students? If I abide by the rules and not a snitch, then I know that karma has a tendency to touch back on their lives. If they get kicked out for being caught, then so be it. At least I know who has integrity and who has not in my presence.

We must police outselves. Personally I would be bored and tired of hearing Ramtha chastise people and call them on their actions. We would be there all night if he did. Then maybe if he did, I could go to bed early in my tent and get some shut eye. Ramtha is not the police. He stated his position and that is it. So be it.

Saxim: You leave yourself WIDE open to criticism by posting the truth as you see it here. I think you are trying to give an honest appraisal of your RSE experience and appreciate your effort--I'm serious.

Consider this: I used to work as an art instructor inside a maximum security penitentiary in New Mexico in the late 1970s. Some of what you describe is the same attitude prisoner criminals have---don't snitch, rules are made to be broken, we are our own gods, if you get caught then you deserve it....

Re: Is X used at RSE?

"Saxim: You leave yourself WIDE open to criticism by posting the truth as you see it here. I think you are trying to give an honest appraisal of your RSE experience and appreciate your effort--I'm serious.

Consider this: I used to work as an art instructor inside a maximum security penitentiary in New Mexico in the late 1970s. Some of what you describe is the same attitude prisoner criminals have---don't snitch, rules are made to be broken, we are our own gods, if you get caught then you deserve it...."

Not only prisoner criminals, but law enforcement too. Have you seen all the various Taser videos lately? How about the cops that take steriods? Oh yeah, what about the athletes? The cops get videoed beating up people, using a Taser on people displaying no deadly force, but say it is our training policy. Any truth can withstand criticism. Thank you.

"Any truth can withstand criticism."

well said....but can any person that believes he is telling the truth?

Saxim writes: "Why would Ramtha continue to waste his time chatising children/adults? He has made it quite clear his stance on this issue. Why waste our retreat time, continuing to lambast stupid students. They are Gods and can do what they want even if Ramtha says not to do it. There is no authority to stop a student from using his/her own free will. "

Let's see, where shall we begin? Good ol' "R" states: "I will take you down if you leave your cards here," "I will take you down if you (fill in the blank). For those still caught in the mindtrap, this IS the "authority." Get it?

I have a question for you. Why did you manifest us in YOUR timeline? If you don't like it, simply change it. It's that easy. Why, even preparing for an event is senseless, since all you need do is "create your own event." I'm sure you're aware of this; I just wonder why so many students feel the need to stop at Safeway, when all they need do is "create their reality." In that light, we don't exist for you, right? Yet you seem to believe we are in your reality-so therefore, YOU created it.

Hi Saxim,

You said: "People will always do whatever they want, no matter what the rules are. As it has been said, rules are made to be broken and some people make sure they do break the rules."

As an "old-timer" former RSE student, I remember when "R" used to compare RSE to the ancient schools of wisdom or ancient mystery schools. Has it ever occurred to you that in those ancient schools (in my understanding), initiates only advanced from level to level by demonstrating their mastery of the material? Similarly, many native cultures around the world have required members to pass a series of initiations before they are given the rights and privileges that come with the level of expertise they have demonstrated. Whereas at RSE, all it takes to be able to attend the next required event is to buy your way in (or if you can't pay, maybe you can clean the toilets).

Also, has it ever occurred to you that a true wisdom school would expel students who demonstrated the "rules are meant to be broken" attitude you describe? Take the subject of this thread--drug use among RSE students. Can an RSE student do all their daily disciplines effectively when under the influence of X? If RSE students truly believe Ramtha is an enlightened being, why would students ignore him when he says not to take drugs? And more to the point, why would Ramtha tolerate "anything goes" if RSE is supposed to be as close as possible to the ancient mystery schools?

If money--not demonstrated understanding of the teachings or mastery of certain skills--is the only requirement to keep attending events at RSE, then is RSE truly the "Great Work" it is said to be, or is it primarily a money-making enterprise?

Ironic and interesting that David M and his "inner circle" are proponents of X, MDMA and other hallucinogens, routinely taking "journeys" with such substances.

The fact that students in "the organization" (as DM and his inner circle like to call it) were into X, despite the teachings against such drugs, is being used as another straw man to kick down when in reality it has zero (zilch, nada) to do with the school, and everything to do with the personal choices of individuals.

Congratulations on continuing to be a gigantic hypocrite, David.

Sort_Of_Ironic,

Yes..

I took MDMA after having it introduced to me by RSE “students” they called it David Hudson’s "White Powder Gold" this was in 1997. Ecstasy “MDMA” I always became weak and sick afterwards.
Yet..
I remember a Shaman visiting Yelm back in 1998 who conducted several Ayahuasca ceremonies within the RSE community …. I was not invited.
That.. did awaken in me an interest in the natural Shamanic medicines of South America,
Such as Ayahuasca,

So now you are calling me a drug taker?

Sort_Of_Ironic,
Have you taken any form of drugs during while a “current” member of RSE?

David.

I wasn't at issue, who did or did not take drugs. The question was, was that fostered or advocated at the ranch...the general consensus was, no. So why would you draw further attention to those who did or do take drugs? They were not the target of the question.

P.S.
Sort_Of_Ironic

You stated...

The fact that students in "the organization" (as DM and his inner circle like to call it).........

I have never heard of "the organization" before now,
but from what I now understand... there were many "secret" groups within the Yelm RSE community,
Perhaps you best ask them what "the organization" was about?.

I am sure they will welcome your inquiries!

Back to the topic thread.
"Is X used at RSE?"

While organizing the music for Judith's RSE birthday celebration around 1998 at the ranch, there were certainly individuals taking MDMA, it was their personal choice, and as far as I know...
was not promoted by RSE.

David.