I remember hearing way after my involvement with Ramtha Dialogues that at some event or another in the early to mid 80's "Ramtha" told a group of people he was leaving JZ and not going to speak through her body any longer because her behavior was too incongrous with what he was teaching.

There were also many rumors of staffers hearing JZ "practice" the Ramtha "voice"

I didn't pay much attention to it at the time, because I was no longer interested in Ramtha but some of the "long termers" must have been present at this event [if in fact it happened]

It puts an interesting spin on the whole psychology of the thing. Could it have been some kind of attempt at a confession from JZ, something she could only do while in a trance?

Did anyone hear any of these rumors who can substantiate or refute them.

It is important to note these are just heresy.

To my knowledge JZ, has never admitted anything approaching fraud.

The only thing I ever heard years ago, was that she did an imitation of Ramtha in front of a group during a retreat.
Maybe over time, as the information passed from person to person it became "she's practicing". Who knows.
You can't even pass a sentence around a large table to people and have it come back exactly the same. I think it's best to relay one's personal experiences when one is looking to establish truth, and being factual, rather than dealing in hearsay, rumors, etc. They just cloud the issue.

Well I agree, Bodhi, that it is important to identify a rumor as just that when discussing it. I think it is crucial to reviving the critical thinking skills that may have gone to sleep in order to make sense out of the nonsense of a group think situation.

It certainly is important to rely on ones on faculties to reach a judgement about important things in life like beliefs.

I also feel strongly that there is a whole lot to be gained by discussing the rumors of fraud surrounding JZ/Ramtha, as long as they are responsibly identified as rumors.

Heresay? Yup it is and it is identifed as such but people made huge life changes based on the "heresay" of Ramtha/JZ in the late 80's and they are getting ready to do it again.

Had the internet existed back then to discuss and open to scrutiny rumors of JZ/Ramtha's credibility it might have served to give people pause, who might have been caught up in the fear and drama of JZ/Ramtha's predictions.

So, my response to your post is: Yes, obviously we need to rely on ourselves and our faculties to reach conclusions that we alone have to live with.

I think it is very important not to shut out information that could help in making those assesments more competently.

Because Ramtha said so is enough heresay for many people to do whatever he/she says.

A little responsible scrutiny of longstanding rumors especially when the swirl around JZ like flies around, well, honey is, in my view, very healthy for the soul

DM

The following comments by Joe Sz help to provide a reasonable, logical [not magical or mystical or mysterious] explanation of the supposed difference between personas of JZ Knight, in my book [I do not believe there is a separate entity, not belonging to JZ, or that there ever has been]:

>>In my experience hearing the stories of thousands of ex-cult members from hundreds of groups a common theme is to say: "It was different and more friendly in the beginning, then something changed." Sometimes this is a result of feeling good, like being on a honeymoon, in the first years of cult life, then like in any marriage, the hard underlying themes being to emerge and take precedence and that changes PERCEPTION.

Those underlying themes were/are always present in cult leaders, but the group and the leader will instinctively mask them out for new members until they are sufficiently warmed up in the pot.

Recall that Axis II or personality disorders are etched into personality about age 25 (or the time the adult brain stops its growth formation). JZ/R was a brat in the early days [1982-84] too. Some movie stars [Shirley Mac] complained during an early workshop with R that the bigguy commanded them to strip all jewelry to learn "detachment"--I heard they never got their jewelry back! I can't say for sure who got it......JZ/R used to get drunk regularly back then too..

My point is that the theme of manipulation in JZ/R was always there--it just got more intense and elaborate as her transformation circus developed more acts.<<

In approximately 1988 I attended a weekend 'event' with JR and Jeff Knight in Atlanta, Georgia. At that time JR mentioned that in the year 2000 HE would be 'leaving as he has taught all that he had come to teach us" and essentially it was now up to all of us to 'continue the journey with this knowledge.'

I was therefore surprised when in fact R was still supposed to be 'here' in 2000. During the years 1990 and 1991 I attended RSE, but left because of the "Energy" that did not feel comfortable to me,as well as some of my own observations and experiences that confirmed this feeling.

The audio tapes for the Atlanta, Georgia weekend were available, but I did not purchase them. Had I done so, I would re-listen to them if that comment was recorded. I wonder if anyone else attended that event and heard the same thing. Several of us discussed this statement later after the event. It was one of the verbal mini-bombs dropped just prior to weekend closure.

Bluebird

JZ no longer channeling Ramtha, and/or Ramtha 'leaving' and/or you won't be able to travel to Yelm/an Event has been a consistent marketing technique since at least 1984/5. In '85/85 it was JZ's ears that were the problem - no more Dialogues; then suddenly there were the Intensives, etc. It can be observed that often these threats of no more Ramtha come near property tax time - since no one knows when Ramtha will leave, the call for a special unscheduled event may be the last chance.... Over and over and over again, sometimes because of JZ's physical condition, sometimes cause she or Ramtha is ******* sometimes because of the state of the world - but somehow she/he go on....
I've never heard Ramtha say a disparaging word of JZ - from the mid '80's to '93 I heard practically every audio tape, if not attended the Event. Consistently JZ was praised by Ramtha as a "Christed Being", highly conscious, expanded conscious blah blah blah - so very special and unique --- which became 'red flags' when this so-called enlightened Christed Being wasn't acting that way.

>>then suddenly there were the Intensives, etc. It can be observed that often these threats of no more Ramtha come near property tax time<<

Hahahahaha........ I love it.

A long-time student I once spoke with told me something changed around the time "the gathering of the eagles" occurred. I don't know what that involved, just a repeat to me from an old-timer.

I did read one of her managers quit after witnessing her practicing the "Ramthat character," and also JZR walking into the great hall as "R" and saying hello to someone as "JZ" then saying, "oops." I can't verify this; these are rumors with the exception of the first paragraph, where I was told directly by a long-timer.

I read (perhaps on Wikkipedia?? or one of the links listed there..not sure where, will try to find out)...that the issue of JZ practicing Ramtha was raised during the court proceedings her ex-husband initiated...as one reason he became disilusioned...the proceedings were not concluded...he died from his disease.

I remember watching a video in the arena last year and I thought I heard R. change his voice to that of JZ for maybe a sentence. It was like he/she forgot which one they were supposed to be in, and got mixed up. It really threw me and I wanted to stand up and shout 'stop, repeat that last segment' so that I could see it again, to see if what I thought I heard I had heard. Of course I didn't do that. I looked around me and there was no reaction from anyone else. But it was a red flag to me, especially when my gut reacted violently (like a sucker punch to the pit of my stomach) but I repressed it at the time as Oh well, I guess I didn't really hear that right. I repressed it so well, that I cannot even recall which video it was, what the event was that I saw the video, or what the context was. So this is no evidence or proof. Just my hearsay.

In the beginning certainly I didn't come to hear JZ talk, I came to hear R. talk, and the events were all R. all the time. Then the emails in my inbox changed to R. and JZ. Then they changed again to JZ and R. Then they changed again to just JZ. The emails started touting her as JZ Knight who "has been recognized by religious experts and historians as one of the most charismatic spiritual leaders of the modern age, for the simplicity with which she articulates the great questions about who we are, where do we come from, and what destiny is ultimately available to us."

I remember thinking what absolute gaul to put that in an email that you send to the world. Who are these alleged religious experts and historians recognizing her? Figments of her imagination. Does she actually believe this stuff? Does she think that if she says it enough times, that people will believe it? She is a business person. And that's all she is. At first the way her business ideas intruded on events...the rules, trademarks and the constant advertisements for books, tapes, etc, were irritating but I sloughed it off. (ie. of course she had to have a business, she isn't present while she channels, this is her way of having an influence in the school) But when the email went out that she was selling the privilege of front row seats, I truly knew I had been had by a master marketer.

Other red flags....the wine ceremony that wasn't a wine ceremony. R. sat there on stage and drank two bottles by himself while the rest of us sat in the arena. Then he/she started on that ****ed horse story. Over and over and over again. THe speech got slurred. We sat there for many hours. Finally we were sent out into the field for a neighborhood walk. It was around midnight. We were supposed to be quiet and focus but the whole thing was so ridiculous that I was giddy with relief at being finally outside. My partner and I talked and laughed and talked some more in the cool night air. We were being frowned at by many masters and I didn't care. I couldn't believe that people were trying to focus. Were they actually inspired by that ludicrous exhibition?

When it came time to start up again this year, all the red flags were finally put together. The school was no more for me.

I have a question for Denotesmeaning. I have been reading your posts and like a lot of what you have posted. That said, I have been wondering why you are on this site. You left in 1987(?) and gather most of your information through secondary sources. What is your deal in terms of RSE? why are you posting so much on the site? I am asking sincerely because I have a tremendous bond with my fellow former students, the "alumni". (I was there year around from 92' to 98'- the arena was dirt back then, and not stinking of wine). Hearing from people who weren't there to participate or experience it, but feel qualified to comment and speculate on it deeply makes me suspicious of the motives. Again, I think this is a fair question to ask and I hope it starts a thread that reveals something helpful.

Leaf.
We need to be careful here,Because Denote have not been long in the school do not make him less then any of us here,he had posted great points that make lot of sense.
We do not need,the need to be different anymore or play victim,we are all here to help each other with out keeping score who did more or know more.
Denote has great points and a clear mind,that allow him to see thing different that we do.

Hey Leaf,

I don't mind you questioning my motives for posting on this site. I am a big believer in looking at motives and I think you should always consider a persons motives when considering their words.

The reasons I do it are pretty simple. I came upon this website and was pretty well astounded as I read about the depraved things JZ Knight is doing in the name of enlightenment.

I hadn't really paid any attention to Ramtha for years and I knew she was running some school in Washington State but I had no idea the level of destruction she was inflicting.

I understand the hunger for a spiritual connection to the world and it saddens me to see that hunger so brutally and carelessly exploited for her own personal aggrandizement and financial gain.

I also feel it is useful to have an outsiders perspective. I am familiar enough with "Ramtha" to know the concepts and how they have changed over the years to point out the contradictions and the deception and the hypocrisy.

I do think JZ Knight is a seriously ill woman and I think she is causing very real damage to many people who don't deserve that treatment.

My motives are pretty straightforward: If what I have to say helps people get some perspective, then great.

People have helped me get perspective during difficult times and I want to do that for others.

That's it.

I don't know how much time I will have to post in the near future so I am trying to "get it all out" while I do have the time to participate.

It happens that my discovery of this web site happened at a time when I have the time to participate.

So that is pretty much it. I am not trying to change anyone's mind just offer another perspective.

Peace,

DM

I've felt in my "gut" *Denotes is a much bigger role in
our recovery than we understand, at this point.
The clarity is undeniable, and I would be tremendously
disappointed were *D to no longer post, particularly
with *D's early knowledge of "Ramtha (TM)."

The clarity, to me, is profound.

Thanks for posting. I appreciate your honesty. it was just a question that had been on my mind, particularly since your postings are pretty right on. The school was such a surreal experience for so many of us, and often unexplainable to those who were never actually at the Ranch. At this point I have no interest in even talking about the time I spent there with anyone except for "alumni" because they are the only ones who get it. Sort of like when Vets get together and share common experiences from War. Outsiders- People never in the military, or even those who spent their time in the military stateside, will never fully comprehend the bond that those who have that tie share.
So, again, thank you for answering.

"Leaf.
We need to be careful here,Because Denote have not been long in the school do not make him less then any of us here,he had posted great points that make lot of sense.
We do not need,the need to be different anymore or play victim,we are all here to help each other with out keeping score who did more or know more.
Denote has great points and a clear mind,that allow him to see thing different that we do"

Old one, I understand what you are saying though I don't at all agree with it. I will always ask a question if I think it has merit. I didn't put Denotesmeaning down and didn't intend to- I simply asked a question that was answered.
I don't see myself as a victim - I had a blast at the school most of the time- When it got too weird I left.
As far as not keeping score, there is a world of difference from someone who did a single beginners to those of us who upended our lives, moved to Yelm and spent years going to the Ranch. And then reverse the process, upend our life in Yelm, give away our "days to come" stash, moldy rain gear, duct taped blinders and get lives in the real world.
I'm not angry...much :)

Leaf
Thank you got it, sory did not mean to put you down.

Old One, sorry if I seemed intense/over the top in my previous posting to you. Your response was nice- I felt silly afterwards.

Leaf
Please don't, all of us here have many mix feeling about our experiences in that school,also because English is not my first language,sometime I do express my self in a funny way.Thank you for you respond it show lot of class on your part
God bless you

Old One, c2G

Thanks for your thoughts. I am glad what I wrote had some meaning for you.

Just to be clear, I never attended any RSE events. My involvement predates any school. Back in the day "Ramtha" was quick to put down any type of school.

I guess when JZ realized she wasn't going to get mainstream credibilty, she decided to go "old school" and do a cult the way it should get done :)

Peace

DM

DM

"Thanks for posting. I appreciate your honesty. it was just a question that had been on my mind, particularly since your postings are pretty right on. The school was such a surreal experience for so many of us, and often unexplainable to those who were never actually at the Ranch. At this point I have no interest in even talking about the time I spent there with anyone except for "alumni" because they are the only ones who get it. Sort of like when Vets get together and share common experiences from War. Outsiders- People never in the military, or even those who spent their time in the military stateside, will never fully comprehend the bond that those who have that tie share.
So, again, thank you for "

got it Leaf. I understand what you are saying & I get why you would only want to talk to others who had been through the same experiences.

DM

The stated purpose of this site is also to offer a place where those who were left as a result of their loved ones or family members joining RSE could offer and receive support and feedback, or understand what actual members went through, and also, for people who were considering joining RSE to possibly be informed of what they might be getting into...I don't for a moment suggest that we are more entitled to share support than actual veterans of RSE...just that we should be welcome too, and that reading your sharing serves to warn and inform the rest of us. And, isn't it a little bit reasuring to know that people on the outside care about you?

One of the things I spent a lot of time on after leaving school was reading about stress, post traumatic, PTSD, and the way any group of people who go through an intense, sustained experience can end up feeling isloated, angry and have trouble trusting other people who can't relate to the experience. because I also had a background in AA, I had some experience with being a part of a group that, just by virtue of its membership criteria, sets you apart from "society"
being in RSE, thinking I was one "the radical few"... made AA look comparatively normal. I don't equate RSE with Military service, but in terms of a RSE being a distinctive society with its own codes, customs and lexicon that purposely excludes outsiders, it is the same. Its obedience to the group think (Ram said...) and inhibitors to questioning authority were tremendous. Not just isolation from the external group, but the knowledge that you caved in to and became "social conciousness" was constant. To be social conciousness meant being basically sheep- (the pot calling the kettle black!)
Wow, I think I just wrote some good stuff... Any thoughts?

"And isn't it a little bit reassuring to know that people on the outside care about you?"

It's enormously reassuring and someone waking up to the fact s/he has been mentally manipulated needs all of the reassurance available.

Last summer I attended an "After The Cult" workshop for former cult members (www.icsahome.com) There was a gentleman there who had never been in a cult but came along with his wife so that he could learn and understand how cults negatively impact innocent people. At the end of the workshop I told him how great I thought it was that he had come along with his wife. He looked at me solemnly and said, "Well, there are plenty of us who care and are willing to help, we just need to know how to help."

His words had a huge uplifting effect on me. I thought about him for a long time afterward and kept reminding myself, "You see? There are people who care. There are people who will help you and they don't have to know you and they don't have to have been in a cult to understand."

One of the reasons it is hard to leave a cult is because the mental and psychological pain is excruciating. There is a huge price to be paid...one has to cash in naivete for betrayal, self confidence for confusion, purpose for bewilderment, and a sense of belonging for isolation and profound loneliness. And what about trust? Will someone who has had their mind messed with ever trust again? Would you?

Believe me, caring makes all of the difference in the world and is exactly what a former member needs.

I clearly recall the months following my realization that RSE is a scam of the highest order. I existed in a continuous state of intense anxiety, fear and depression. The smallest noise caused me to flinch and if a stranger smiled at me tears flooded into my eyes. Decision making was virtually impossible and there was nothing to do but live in auto pilot just to let some time pass in order to adjust to the shock of the realization. Brutal is not a strong enough word to describe the experience of waking up to the fact that one has been 100% taken advantage of.

Caring is a great thing and we need you more than you know.

EYES:

THANK YOU!!

Also have to add...there is a phenomenon called "trauma by proxy"...if you see somebody else injured, or you can imagine it from what you hear or read, you yourself feel it, and have to get over it. I am certain that many people reading about others' experiences with RSE feel a whole range of gut reactions...horror, enormous empathy, sorrow for you, and indignation at the way you were treated, and a wish to help. I am sure you are in many people's prayers. And so are the leaders at the school, though perhaps not in a good way.

EYES:
Wow. Very well said, esp about the beyond the brutal part.

Interesting thread.

I just want to chime in and ask you all to please consider something. If I'm reading accurately, there seems to be some bruised or sensitive feelings about being able to help another, whether we've been in a cult like RSE or not.

It all makes me remember something I experienced this past summer, when I attended a weekend event dealing with "recovery" from cults. The stories I heard. YIKES.

There were people there who were raised in cults from birth to adulthood, and they got out. Others were recruited in at various times in their life. ALL of them experienced horrible things. Perhaps in a strange sort of way, we get used to the weirdness in our own respective cults. Why do I say that ? Because despite how degrading and manipulative and controlling RSE is, at least it was familiar weirdness. Some of the things the other cults did were just really bizarre, if not life threatening in some cases. Actually, one woman talked of someone she knew who died by directly following the cult's rules.

My point is, in sharing this story, that I could identify with what they were saying in terms of the FALLOUT from it. I believe that all cults leave similar PATTERNS of reaction when a member realizes they've been duped. We go through similar emotions and realizations, as is witnessed in the cult books that a number of us have read. (Or articles on same)

So, I would suggest that it's not a "bad" thing in any way, that we can each identify at various levels, with the cult experience. As has been mentioned, what matters is that there are folks out there, who have sympathy for those who suffer. Period.

I suffered horribly by losing a total of 17 years to RSE, which in my opinion is a destructive cult that should be shut down completely. That does not mean I'm a victim; I have a good life and a beautiful family. It is FOR ME because of that family, that I still suffer inside, though that does not rule my life. I won't allow it to. It already DID that.

I have sympathy for those who lost loved ones in that tsunami that freakin JZ KNIGHT and RAMTHA said the DEAD people deserved their deaths for. However, I've never been even somewhat close to a tsunami, except via the news.

I have sympathy for the abused childen of this world. I love children. Maybe that's why I'm the mother of ten. But, I didn't have to abuse a child to have sympathy for those who have been.

I will never know the depth of pain that the tsunami victims' surviving loved ones, or those children with jaded history (abuse), have inside of them. But, I feel for them.

People who have been in non-RSE cults, or who have never been in a cult, will (fortunately for them) never know the depth of pain that myself or others have inside of them, even if/when they Move On with their lives. HOWEVER, I personally would not at all equate that with anyone not being able to feel profound sympathy for an ex-cult member.

Just my two cents ... Whatchamacallit ...(who is not David in disguise for those of you who wonder...not even the same gender!)

I remember various points in time, when "Ramtha" said "he" was leaving. I heard the well known story that DM recalled, though I didn't begin the school until 1990, so didn't experience that. I was introduced to the teachings in 1983, however, though at that time, only via books/videos/audios.

Someone mentioned the Atlanta teaching...I'm almost sure I have that set of tapes. I have just about every book and audio teaching ever released (ugggg)...quite a library.

There have been a number of points in time where certain students were convinced that, based on something Ramtha said, he was leaving. It spawned all sorts of speculation and it still does.

Maybe it was intentional, I don't know.

I recall one incident in particular that I don't think has even been posted on EMF, but as I'm typing, just popped into my head.

Around the time of the Jeff Knight divorce proceedings, a group of people got together (students and/or former students), and drafted a lengthy paper that was shared with many students/people. I was the recipient of a copy. I don't know if I still have it or not. I just have soo much "stuff" from RSE, and it's packed away in numerous boxes that I don't really want to open...

Anyway ... on the set of audio tapes (and I believe in a book), where "R" talks about the aliens, ....it's the long set....not the short set...the title escapes me at the moment...

he says that Jehovah was on the ship, "Miriahmoon" (or however the heck you pronounce that...nobody seems to REALLY understand that word that I know of)...and that it was that ship, HIS SHIP, that blasted Sodom & Gomorrah into the sea, which then, created the Dead Sea as we know it.

NOW...I am NOT promoting this teaching. I am making the point that this, too, was one of many pivot points for a group of people who then left the school, what's called "a division in the school" in the lingo, BECAUSE they were convinced not necessarily that Ramtha "left", but that he was Jehovah (the devil). Students have left the school en masse, throughout the years, for assorted "divisive" reasons - and - those reasons all seem to be related to DOUBT. (Thank Goodness for DOUBT !!)

I'm sure others on this forum recall this event.

DM...what you mentioned as rumor, I cannot validate directly except to say that it was a widely known "rumor". It is still discussed to this day.

Have to go...

Sifting writes: "I remember watching a video in the arena last year and I thought I heard R. change his voice to that of JZ for maybe a sentence. It was like he/she forgot which one they were supposed to be in, and got mixed up. It really threw me and I wanted to stand up and shout 'stop, repeat that last segment' so that I could see it again, to see if what I thought I heard I had heard."

Do you remember if that was the video where Ramthat slipped and said, (in JZ's voice) "Oh my heck!" (people who were in the school will recognize this as one of JZ's "phrequent phrases."

Whatcha writes: "he says that Jehovah was on the ship, "Miriahmoon" (or however the heck you pronounce that...nobody seems to REALLY understand that word that I know of)...and that it was that ship, HIS SHIP, that blasted Sodom & Gomorrah into the sea, which then, created the Dead Sea as we know it."

Do you know if that's that "UFO's and the Nature of Reality-Understanding Alien
Consciousness and Interdimensional Mind?" I have about three copies floating around and read parts of it but not all.

So Ramtha@ said it was HIS-RAMTHA's @ "ship" that blasted Sodom and Gomorrah? Hoo hee! Let me get this straight. Why does Ramthat need a spaceship when he's an 'ascended human/master?' Can't he get around just fine in his cosmic egg? Or just with the 'thought' or 'intent?'

Also in the Foreward in this book, edited by Judi Pope Koteen in 1991, it states it's from an "intensive" specifically address the subject of UFO's and interdimensional understanding."

The "Foreward" also repeats what Ramthat also said, "He is "The Ram" around which the Hindu people built their relgion."

I don't know ANY Hindus who believe that; even ex- Hindus.

Okay, just read pages 36 and 37 of the above-mentioned book. Ramthat is stating, "there is a very great ship, called the Mother Ship." fast forward "It slides invisibly by night, because its exterior has been created to be invisible. It looks black."

Then: "When it passes in front of the moon, it blocks out the entire Eastern portion of the sky at night." (I don't know about any of you, but I've been night person for a long time, and have "indeed" been out at night at odd hours, living in the country with a full view of the night sky - the only thing I ever saw blocking the moon was either a lunar eclipse, clouds, or something in my eye!)

Ramthat further states: "That ship houses gods. The Great Ones. MY PEOPLE."
So is JZR saying "Ramtha@" is an alien, and not a human?

A bit more: "Your government is aware of its presence. It's ominous to them! This ship has warriors that would defy your imagination and gods that would defy the term beauty."

"In a moment, it could blast a continent to the bottom of the sea, (sic), "with one of its lights it could rotate this continent and send it spinning in orbit" (sic) "it could take this world and turn it upside down-in a moment."

"THIS WAS THE SHIP THAT BLASTED SODOM AND GOMORRAH OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH. IN ONE BLAST." "And yet, this great guardian is my people."

If I remember correctly, according to one of the teacher's day long lectures, Jehovah blasted Sodom and Gomorrah, and also we were told this "being" lived off of the pains and cries of the people."

So who the heck is inside JZ's mind? It's got to be a bit crowded in there.

I had no idea RSE was a "UFO" group. Not that I disbelieve, but it's definitely not something I wanted to be involved with. I had other reasons for going. Why didn't "What the Bleep" discuss UFO's and divulge the "ascended human Ramthat@" spends time on an "invisible alien spacecraft?"

One more interesting statement from the book. "It is beyond your ability to change the destiny of what is coming." SO, WE DON'T CREATE OUR REALITY?

Revolving door. "Sweet Judi blue eyes" needs a new jacket--one with very long sleeves that ties in the back. I feel for her; it's got to be maddening to have this all going on in one's head, add to that, the need to be adored and placed high above others---"the lady who knows all that glitters is gold" has priorities that are difficult for anyone to have compassion and understanding.

Maybe the greatest adventure is to try; and bring to light all that is really going on at that place that is beneath the radar.

Tree's advice to write to your elected officials, imo, is very good advice, even a small, handwritten note, with your name and address (anonymous letters are not given credence). It's your choice - we all have one.

I find myself wanting to get "behind myself" and kick my butt for NOT investigating beyond the RSE homepage before I went. But at some point, we have to forgive ourselves, because if we knew what lie ahead, how many would have willingly proceeded? Everyone was in the mindtrap to one degree or another, and filled with fear.

To think how strongly they enforce "impeccability" on that field, and I do believe there are teachers who embrace it wholeheartedly. Then there are others on the ultimate ego trip, imo. Perhaps the "Dr." is from "another timeline" so it's "not REALLY dishonest." Oh yes, "we paid our car off in another timeline, so don't expect payments in this one." Ahem.

(wish I could insert Patsy Cline's "Crazy" right here, because reading this and that IS crazy-making. I suspect this is why "the teacher has no hair." (sarcasm intended).

Makes you just want to shake the earth in that area and say, "WAKE UP!" a la "Ramthat" to the audience, just out of the blue as JZR does. I mean, what is THAT? LOL. Lady, I wasn't sleeping. Maybe we just found you boring after all of that "time tile" teaching. If there's any ceramic in your house (not seen in Scalamandre's Luxurious Homes book), could it be you began writing on the walls?

I know I went off topic here; my mind was just rolliing along, like the "time tile boxcar train."

G2G...Sifting writes: "I remember watching a video in the arena last year and I thought I heard R. change his voice to that of JZ for maybe a sentence. It was like he/she forgot which one they were supposed to be and got mixed up. It really threw me and I wanted to stand up and shout 'stop, repeat that last segment' so that I could see it again, to see if what I thought I heard I had heard."

G2G:Do you remember if that was the video where Ramtha slipped and said, (in JZ's voice) "Oh my heck!" (people who were in the school will recognize this as one of JZ's "frequent phrases."


Wow, Yes! that was the one! It's so good to know, others DID see and hear it. It was very distinctly JZ and NOT Ramtha. Do you happen to recall which video that was? (Last year I only went to the two required events and one evening.) I thought at the time I heard it that staff members had to have heard it too, in fact each time the video was replayed. So, why didn't they comment? I would think also, that this kind of 'slip' would occur on more than one occasion, and that staff members who were always there would be more likely to witness and remember those slips. If I can repress what I saw, what amount of repression of things witnessed is occurring for staff members to 'carry on' without question. Did staff ever discuss such 'slips'?

"did staff ever discuss such slips?"

not that I am aware of.
And if it was noted by staff, the video department would have been ordered to omit that part.
AS a matter of fact, In Mike Wright's perusal of this site, I think he may in fact be doing this very thing.....
determining which video it is, ask the queen's permission, and have the video edited.
Maybe something might leak in for Mike and the video department then.
Ding!Ding!Ding!

"AS a matter of fact, In Mike Wright's perusal of this site, I think he may in fact be doing this very thing.."

I do remember which event, but let Mike determine which video it was on his own using the RSE disciplines. (Just draw a card, make a godscope, and focus)
Mike looks so cute wearing the white hairnet with the blue hairnet over top (JRZ's manner of demonstrating a "new" neuronet. I remember looking at Mike at the computer at the side of the stage. He looked like a shadow of a man he once was. It's actually very sad. How did HE get hooked? No wonder he lost it. Despite the remarks, he probably could have been a very dynamic individual in another field. I do know he was a military pilot. He's got to know that wasn't all a dream!

Mike, I know it's your job. But take off the hairnets, don't be afraid of blondie, and be the man you once were - before JZR brainwashed you.

Sad. When JZ's around, he appears very meek. Another individual lost to the "herd" institution.