Enlighten Me Free


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Abuse at RSE

may you please tell me briefly your experiences of being abused, or witnessing any kind of abuse when you were in RSE, if there was any?

Re: Abuse at RSE

I certainly witnessed alcohol abuse, while children were in audience. I wasn't there for very long. Throughout these threads are truths of what people here have seen and experienced. Tree, for one, there is an entire thread on her experience. Verbal? "You are so small, you are so scared" - belittling by the hierophant. I was in audience but didn't see with my own eyes a man being punched by the "hierophant." If you read through these pages, you will see. It's heinous and begins so innocently. "Just keep an open mind" they say, so they can fill it with crap.

Good Luck - there's a lot in these posts telling of abuses.

Re: Abuse at RSE

+ verbal abuse by JZ on a regular basis:
"You know not what I know, etc" can be heard in tapes.
+ verbal abuse by Robert Jones esp. on the childrens' field (who verbally abused his children. My son witnessed this at their house).
+ Abuse of children during wine ceremonies,
esp when children had to go pee.
My son was accosted by an ex Viet Nam vet in the hallway to go pee( he was supervised by his other parent at the time).
Nothing was ever done to this man, who was a known alcoholic , even at that early time.
I was next to a woman who got punched in the stomach by "R". At the time, my critical thinking was not intact, and I thought,' she deserved it'.
(God, I am so sorry lady. I will not reveal her name.)

Re: Abuse at RSE

In my opinion, observation and experience there are all forms of abuse occurring at RSE. There is physical abuse which is to say that participants are subject to enormous pressure from "Ramtha" and the group to do things that they are possibly/probably not capable of. Two examples are "Fieldwork" and "The Tank." In "Fieldwork" participants walk blindfolded in a very large fenced area. There may be as many as 500, 600, 700, 800, 900 other people also walking blindfolded. Do you think that people don't get injured? And if they do - guess what - they are considered a VICTIM. "Ramtha" teaches that victims are BAD. "You create your own reality" therefore "You created getting injured - it's YOUR FAULT." That is an example of psychological abuse.

"The Tank" is a large maze with walls 8' high. One moves through the tank BLINDFOLDED using ladders, doors, rope walls and tunnels. Do you think no one gets injured in the tank? And if they do it is explained as, "You changed your timeline...that injury would have occurred in your life (say what??) and now that you have experienced it in the "sacred" tank you have freed yourself of the karmic repercussions." Oh, please.

The emotional abuse of a drunk "Ramtha" is legion. In the "Truth Teaching" days it was directed primarily toward staff. "Ramtha" would have a staff member stand up and s/he would castigate the individual
concerning their sexuality, attitudes and behavior. It was always done "for their own good." My observation is that "Ramtha" does tend to target particular people who are then considered "special." How's that for twisted thinking?

Nowadays "Ramtha" points into the audience and bellows, "YOU! STAND UP! I SAID YOU!" Talk about intimidation...what would you do??

In my opinion and experience the worst abuse occurring at RSE is invisible. People who show up and are highly suggestible are unknowingly subject to something called Ericksonian hypnosis and neuro-linguistic programming. I can say this because I now realize that it happened to me. Under the invisible influence of "Ramtha" I said and did things I would not have otherwise, including returning to RSE.

In my opinion and experience Ramtha's School of Enlightenment is a MIND CONTROL CAMP, a dangerous place because what you see is not what you get.

There is huge illusion going on there and I was trapped in its invisibility for many years. Now I am someone whose EYES are WIDE OPEN and it hurts like hell. The abuse continues.

abuse:to use so as to injure or damage, improper use or treatment, a deceitful act

Re: Abuse at RSE

As stated above, the incidents of abuse have been described throughout this message board. Also included under the category of abuse are the false money making and healing procedures promoted by Ramtha such as Omega and the seawater(look up the Hudson thread). Tree's is only one story of the many physical rapes that occurred during wine ceremonies. G2G's post here gives an accurate and clear description of abuses. In January I posted the cycle of abuse - here's some of what I said:the context in which the information is taught is clearly, and consistently a classic manifestation of what is known as the cycle of abuse. For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear simply listen to an audio tape or view a video of JZ Knight’s “Ramtha”. It’s obvious – and utterly predictable.
“I love you.” “You are my people”.
“Only I recognize the truth of who you are”.
“You are gods”.
TENSION PHASE “Ramtha” says:

-“You’ve looked everywhere for the truth and haven’t been able to find it”.
-“Your churches have let you down”.
-“I am the only one who can show you the way to become all you were meant to be”.
-“You are lazy”.
-“You are hung up on your image.” “You care about how you look, you care about your relationships, your marriages, you care about your children more than you care about God”. “If you listen to me, I’ll teach you.”
-“If you leave, you are loved, but you will die”. “
-“You have to be willing to give up everything you have considered important”.
-“You criticize me, and look for support from outsiders to deride the ‘disciplines’ – because you think you’re better than the ‘disciplines’ – when in reality
you’re not:
ABUSE STAGE “Ramtha” says:
-(you’re not) committed enough, you’re not passionate enough, you’re not_________ enough”.
- “Ramtha” uses peoples’ human-ness against them and “beats” them with it – verbally, and physically.
- Sometimes “students” are put through 8 to 12 or more consecutive hours, sometimes days, of disciplines with no allowable breaks – after which “Ramtha” tells them they were more concerned with their bladders and their stomachs than they were with attaining ‘analogical mind’ / manifesting / reaching the void / finding their card / etc.
- Sometimes “Ramtha” berates the audience with their lack of will – and in spite of all he has sacrificed to be here, and all his daughter has sacrificed so he could be here and all the ways he’s tried to teach truth, the students still aren’t getting it because they’re not trying hard enough or wanting to enough – are simply not enough.
- One example: In the morning of the last day of a 21 day “event”, “Ramtha” berated the audience for at least an hour because they had been thinking of the animals or children or gardens they’d left unattended (even though “Ramtha” had insisted everyone grow their own food and keep chickens and goats and cows, and have children). We had dared to think outside of “the Ranch”, about something other than “Ramtha” and “the teachings”. The ultimate punishment was that we were to be sent home early. We’d all been so high on what we’d learned and done – as well as in a state of total exhaustion due to sleep and food deprivation – and were completely devastated. Some people broke down in uncontrollable tears.
- The rationalization for “Ramthas” self proclaimed “outrageous” behavior is to “wake” people “up” out of their lethargy, laziness, stuckness in image, blindness to their non-analogical neurotic physical thoughts and acts. If the students weren’t so __________ then “Ramtha” wouldn’t have to act that way.
- “Ramtha” threatens/promises to “bring people down” if they did / thought /said _______________________.
- “Ramtha” makes it very clear that if you don’t “get” “the teaching” you will die. If you die without “getting it”, Light Beings in the 3rd dimension will eat you.
- During the era of “Wine Ceremonies”:
- A “Wine Ceremony” entails drinking 3 large glasses of wine straight down, one right after the other.
- The person sitting next to you is to make certain that each of your glasses is full.
- The instruction is that the wine has a scientifically proven effect on a human beings capacity to transcend their ordinary thinking into extra ordinary enlightenment.
- It was also taught that “The Wine Ceremony” is of a sacred tradition throughout the history of humankind.
- As demonstrated by “Ramtha”, students are instructed to smoke a pipe.
- It is taught that it has been scientifically proven that tobacco, particularly in interaction with wine consumption, facilitates the transcendent experience.
-“The Truth Teachings” during which a drunk “Ramtha” would call upon a drunk ‘student’ and expose their most intimate thoughts and behaviors.
- A drunk “Ramtha” would curse, use obscene language and gestures, mock, accurse and berate the audience for all their humanness.
- A drunk audience were told to dance to loud “1st seal” music as demonstrated by a drunk “Ramtha” and instructed that this overtly sexual dancing by drunk participants was a sacred act of sacred union.
- “Ramtha” acknowledged that sexual activity took place during “The Wine Ceremony” events by discussing the babies born of such drunken sexual activity.
- “The Wine Ceremonies” are defended with a cloak of religious sacredness for the elect and therefore incomprehensible to the uninitiated/ un-elected/ not a “Student” of “Ramtha”.
- “Ramtha” instructed sober alcoholics to participate in “Wine Ceremonies” if they were sincere in their desire to attain enlightenment; and assured them they would not be harmed.
- Once sober alcoholics lost their sobriety.
- Once non-alcoholics have become chronic drinkers.
- Children were present during “The Wine Ceremonies”.
- “Ramtha” encouraged “Students” to start taking the anti-depressant Prozac.
- “Ramtha” taught “the Students” that “Prozac” would enhance their ability to learn, to become enlightened, to be able to control their lives.
- In the video of “Two Paths” “Ramtha” brags that the fact ‘he’ has consumed 4 bottles of wine without evidence of it proves it is ‘he’ “Ramtha” in the body and not “his daughtern”.
- During a “Wine Ceremony” “Ramtha” threw-up on stage.
- “Ramtha’s” “Guards” have had to pick up JZ Knight’s drunk body when it has stumbled.
-Although the RSE has moved on from frequent “Wine Ceremonies”, a drunk “Ramtha” will unexpectedly come into the meeting arena at the end of an event while everyone is packing up to leave and curse and use obscene language berating the event’s participants.
“Ramtha” says:
-“You are my beloved people”.
-“Your churches don’t love you, your spouses don’t know love you, your children don’t love you as I do.
-Noone loves you as I do.
-Listen to “Ramtha”, attend as many “events” as you can, and you will be a manifesting god.

THE HOOK: These techniques to get people to attend as many events as possible have been used for 30 years, and have become somewhat predictable – i.e. when attendance at events is falling off, or near the due date for property taxes.
-“My daughtern won’t be allowing me to use her body much longer.”
-You soon won’t be able to travel to attend events.
-“Ramtha is leaving this dimension.”

Re: Abuse at RSE

EWO.... """""""hugs"""""""

Yes, it does hurt like hell. Spiritual rape and betrayal are probably one of the worst experiences one can have in life. RSE is the spiritual rape of innocence.

But, we are out of there. At least that's positive, and we can reach out to help others, if only they will listen.

I've asked myself many times why JZ seems to, to some degree, get away with it. Why do bad things happen to good people, you know ? I don't have the answers, but it would be just and fitting if RSE was shut down to protect everyone there from themselves, and from her tyranny.

My opinion...

Re: Abuse at RSE

my memory is fuzzy about this, but in the late 1980s I recall introduction of COPPER as some kind of miracle element for protection from psychic, elf attacks and lining home with coppper foil. I recall ramsters taking copper supplements. The latter is a dangerous practice as in America we have an abundance of copper trace element in a daily diet anyway, too much is toxic esp if not balanced with zinc---zinc is actually more deficient in our diets, not copper.
There was some kind of 'dirt' with copper in it that JZ promoted for sale--what was that?
Does any one recall the specifics of the copper?


Re: Abuse at RSE

well, thanks for all your replies!
Keep on posting if there is more to know.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Hi Joe,
Yes, copper was promoted at RSE as a way to shield oneself from frequency which would interfere with one's consciousness. The idea being that a student needs to be able to hold a single thought for a very long time so that it builds up in power sufficiently to "manifest" in this reality (referred to as Hertzian by Jz/"Ramtha.") Copper fabric could be purchased to line one's hat with, copper foil could be purchased to line one's house and copper flakes could be purchased to mix into paint.

I remember Jz/"Ramtha" yelling, "Wait until they turn off the...(some kind of equipment that generates a signal intended to interfere with one's ability to hold a thought.)

Notice the set-up?

1. Holding a single thought is how to bring something into form. (This is dogma - there is no proof of it nor has "Ramtha" ever demonstrated it.)

2. A students' ability to hold a thought is being interfered with. (This puts the student in the "done to" VICTIM position and at RSE victims are BAD.)

3. But if the student stays with "Ramtha" s/he will be helped. For example, "Ramtha" is telling the student they are being messed with (victim, victim) but copper will help (money, money.) The intended final outcome of this scenario is to create psychological dependence in the student which translates into the next event at RSE.

Re: Abuse at RSE

There's no question that being able to concentrate is a big plus. Training oneself to hold a single thought can be an excellent way to improve concentration but at RSE this concept is abused.

The training at RSE is to hold a thought for an indefinite period of time. If the student wants to bring something into reality s/he must keep focusing on it.

In cult literature this is known as a MIND NUMBING TECHNIQUE because all other thinking is prevented from occurring. (What kind of other thinking? How about critical thinking? How about thinking for oneself?)

It is why Ramsters can appear "spacey." Because they are literally thinking about something else rather than being in the present moment.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Hello Joe,

I recommend you listen to the new CD "Minerals and Transmuting the Body", which is a Ramtha teaching from 1989 on copper/zinc/iron. He recommends the ingestion of S.O.D.(superoxide dismutase) for its perfect balance of copper and zinc ions. Hawaiian spirulina is a rich source of it. JZ's store use to carry lots of vitamin and mineral supplements back then. According to Ramtha copper prolongs one's lifespan by hundreds of years.

Re: Abuse at RSE

thanks again for the info, but I wanted to ask again mostly for info about abuse observed and related possibly to RSE.

Re: Abuse at RSE

thanks, ex-w. I'll see if I can get the '89 disc...I figured there was more to it...

Copper extends life by hundreds of years?

That is a golden nugget of information,

but will I swallow it?


Re: Abuse at RSE

What about in the early 1990,I participated in 2 feild events, Ramtha devided us in two group,we were instructed that each group go the the oposit fence,put there blinders on an start running as fast as we could tord each other.At the end Ramtha at made the one that go hurt sit again the fence as we walked by them on our way back to the Arena I saw broken noses, broken arms,Etc,I remember at list 20 peoples sitting there,and he called them Victims.
I did not get hurt I am a pretty big guys,my only bad luck would have been that I ran face to face with SIR robert.
Any one remember that

Re: Abuse at RSE

I've been told this many times by old-time BC students.
Those who were injured, it was said according to R, was
because they could not hold their focus. The people passing
by were not permitted to offer ANY assistance or sympathy.
I would have been run off the premises, because there
is no way I would have walked on by when people need help.
What is that anyway? If we are all "gods" according to
Ramtha, then it is OUR decision to help or not, was my

The field can be a dangerous place. I'm a 5'5" smaller
woman, and the big guys on the field would decimate me
and other women. We did complain to one another (woman
to woman). One woman was crying; I was hit right in the
solar plexus and lost my breath - all the while I was
concerned I was going to hurt the little old lady with
the oxygen tank, because you could hear it, or just "feel"
it. If you don't go back out to "find" your card,
the wonderful gentle "R" said, (I heard this) "I WILL
field where the creek is, is a huge dip with rocks
when it's dry, and is why I didn't realize there was a
creek initially. It was very dry, and I remember banging
into the fence at the level of my teeth and getting
a bloody lip. So how does one 'focus' when their safety is
compromised? "forget about the body" until someone knocks
you over. Not everyone is careless. I've had many kind
hearts hug me or pat me when they've run into me, and
I've done the same back. There are good people there who
truly want to be close to their god. RSE exploits this,
this goes without saying.

Bless those on the field this day!

Re: Abuse at RSE

"I recommend you listen to the new CD "Minerals and Transmuting the Body", which is a Ramtha teaching from 1989 "

that is only on cassette tape. and no longer available.
Oddly enough, this was the tape that changed my next 18 years physically.
I was a very active, athletic person.
I used to run with my son in his stroller.
The day I heard that tape, I quit any and every from of exercise because "Ramtha said"
that if we knew now much lack of nitrogen in the atmosphere we had, you would never excercise again.
So I stopped.
A few years, or events later, he would say,
"dig in the ground, make a garden, and you will keep in fine physical shape."

Guess what. I did just that. Built my house, my son's cabin, the UG, did a garden, and I STILL gained 30 pounds!!!Not to mention eating all the bread , cheese and wine at wine ceremonies.

Re: Abuse at RSE

lining the roof of your house with copper was mentioned a few times in audience.
something about keeping the aliens and gov't from finding you via infared or something like that.
I was there, but that is my closest recollection.
yes, I have copper on all my structures

Re: Abuse at RSE

Does anybody remember the day when “Ramtha” lined us up blindfolded on opposite sides of the fence, , we were instructed to run as fast as we could across the field to the opposite fence, we were about 450 people on each side, when we met in the middle the cries of pain and bodies crashing was sickening..If that wasn’t enough entertainment for Judith.. “Ramtha” had the survivors do it a second time..

Did I follow orders? Yes..
Did I reach out and help the fallen and injured? NO..
This blind obedience to hurt others and my inaction to help the fallen,

This is still a wound in my heart…


Re: Abuse at RSE

Yes David
the same here still think about it, I remember the look in those faces.

Re: Abuse at RSE

You were thoroughly in the mindtrap; so don't be so hard on yourselves.

and a hug for your heart. Look where you are now, and how you are helping others!

THANKS! Because if not you, who else? Who has the courage to come out and tell it like it WAS and IS?

Re: Abuse at RSE

It was a despicable display of hostility and it provided jz with powerful feedback on how much control she had over "students." She wanted to know if "students" would do what "Rantha" said even if it meant going against their own basic instinct. This is the essence of mind control.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Daniele writes: '''' thanks again for the info, but I wanted to ask again mostly for info about abuse observed and related possibly to RSE.''''

Looking at it now, it's ALL abuse in one form or another.

Re: Abuse at RSE

thanks G2G
now it is more clear to everyone, I guess, why I do not want my 4yo daughter in RSE or CSE anymore, even if I'm having to fight her mum for this.

Re: Abuse at RSE

yes, I was on that field of running vs 450 others.
I did not get hurt, but I did not take my blinders off to see the carnage-it was too much to bear. But I could certainly hear it.
Many, many people were injured in that event.

And we actually listened and participated.
nice testing ground for kool-aid.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Oh my God!!! Oh my Goodness!!! Wow, yeah, just one close to the 'kool aid.'

Where there any children involved in this 'banging of the bodies?'

You know, after reading these post, no, I have no compassion for JZ because that's really abusing the trust people thought they had/have with her.

No ascended being of higher conscinousness would ask people to do such a thing. First of all, no ascended being would even use the body of a human (knowing how evolved the ascended is, and the human body not) to get it's message through. An ascended master would know that it would wreak havoc on the human spirit, mind, body.

But I guess JZ wanted everyone to know what she's going through - pain. I think where ever she's at in life, is what the students must go through (via a made up discipline).

Re: Abuse at RSE

I was also at that event where we were told to RUN, blindfolded, across the field to the opposite side. There were people lined up on each side of the fence, running at one another.

Elderly people
Young adults
and..LITTLE children.

Nobody was exempt from Judy's game.

I know of one girl, about 8 years old, who was run down by the bigger people, and whose face was stepped on.

I didn't get hurt, luckily, but I'm five feet tall...I sure could have been.


Re: Abuse at RSE

Elderly people and little children, too?

Judith is one sick puppy.

Having been in that "mindtrap," I wonder how health professionals felt, having an obligation to report child/elderly abuse to authorities. How did Judith get away with this? Did it make the newspapers? Didin't it occur to her that small children might get trampled? The woman is a menace to society, imo, despite the initial "sweet Judi blue eyes" teaching style first unveiled. It's a setup, a lure, a trap.

Tears for the caged minds and hearts, and kudos to you who have fled and speak out.

Re: Abuse at RSE

It is hard to believe the stories from the past - always has been in my short tenure.. and I agree with G2G - how did that field incident go unreported? Is it assault when you tell someone to do it?

Fastforward to now: people are 'invited' to pay $500 and camp in the driving wind and rain.. Pond is getting pretty full now - bringing a kayak to sleep in might have been a good idea.

But my QUESTION to 'old timers':

Has anyone, in all this time, stood up to her? Like said 'no' we will not harm each other by running at each other blindfolded, or during the days of 'truth' teaching abuse, just scream back at the ram persona? Just tell it all, on the way out the door? I know such action would have been career limiting, but..the pressure of all that mumbo-jumbo.

Lots of new age groups with worshipped figures attract some real bongos, people with serious problems to begin with. These types do screwball stuff. But the 'jokers' & 'fools' always revealed the leader when they acted out.

I remember a few years ago, I went on stage with everyone, dancing around 'r' and it was crazy. At one point I locked eyes with jr - held it - asking in my mind, 'who the f*** ARE you?'..SHE broke the gaze - it was clearly JZ. I knew from that time on. Merely a challenging stare down revealed her charade. But I didn't get that close for a long time...

Re: Abuse at RSE

I was in the audience a few times when someone stood up and shouted at "Ramtha." "Ramtha" shouted back and then told the "Red Guards" to "remove this person." At which point the "Red Guards" physically surrounded the "offender" and escorted them out of the arena.

Of course this makes a powerful impression on the rest of the audience and perhaps the whole thing was "staged" exactly for that reason...if one DARES to say a word or question, you will be removed.

Ostracism is a deep seated human fear directly tied to survival.

Speaking of which isn't that what the field exercise was all about? IF YOU ARE WEAK, YOU ARE OSTRACIZED.

In that exercise jz/"ramtha" was charting the territory of the human condition concerning vulnerability. What choice will a person make when faced with ostracism?

ostracize: to exclude from a group by common consent

Re: Abuse at RSE

"how did that field incident go unreported? Is it assault when you tell someone to do it? "

you have to understand, it is not until one is OUT that we can see that it is both assaulting and abusive.
This is what people do not understand.

One cannot think with reason while IN the group.

Re: Abuse at RSE

"I was in the audience a few times when someone stood up and shouted at "Ramtha." "Ramtha" shouted back and then told the "Red Guards" to "remove this person." At which point the "Red Guards" physically surrounded the "offender" and escorted them out of the arena.

Of course this makes a powerful impression on the rest of the audience and perhaps the whole thing was "staged" "

that was not staged.
That is standard protocol.
Any one questions, esp in order to be heard one has to yell over 1000 people, then it is seen as combative, and you will be removed, all in the name of 'protecting the body.'

Re: Abuse at RSE

"'protecting the body.'"

and speaking of this, I often wondered, if "Ramtha" were all knowing and all powerful, why would "the body" need protecting.
This makes total sense now....

Re: Abuse at RSE

What about all the old red guards that was there and gone,like Glen and his wife,what about Soly.
I remember Glen mentionning soemthing about JZ having lot of books under her bed or something like that.And what about JO the one before BB.Glen mention that he saw him taking Gold from a safe,You would think that they would have seen lot of abuse.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Hello Tree & Joe,

the teaching is available on 2 audio CDs, it's one of JZ's new releases. Go to the online store and search for "minerals".

Re: Abuse at RSE

I agree with you " frog prince". Why has no one stood up to her/him/it? After reading this thread, I felt such a rush of rage that if Ms Thing was is the room I'd feel a moral obligation to b***h slap her!It would appear that it was a "group battery" perpetrated by none other than the CEO of her coproration and certain of its employees. I do not understand why former RSE students have not sent anonymous complaints en masse to the Washington State Attorney General's office demanding an investigation into these occurences. Courts have held that certain "confidentiality agreements are"ab initio", null and void on the grounds that they are contrary to public policy.

Re: Abuse at RSE

>>>Has anyone, in all this time, stood up to her? Like said 'no' we will not harm each other by running at each other blindfolded<<<

Over the years, there have been a few occasions when people have resisted. After the blindfolded incident already mentioned, there was a similar event on the field. Students were running the longer length like a herd of elephants, back and forth. I don't know why. They collectively kicked up a huge amount of dust as it was a hot, dry day and much of the grass was worn away on the field, at that time.

Ramtha was standing, with one guard, up near JZ's house, IN the name field. I sat down on the ground, maybe 20 feet in front of them, and refused to get up. I remember feeling very tense, and expecting to be kicked out, but I didn't care. So, I did the passive-aggressive thing. I was ignored, to my surprise.

I know another time, in audience, a woman stood up and yelled F you to Ramtha. She was out, but I think she walked out at that point.

I think it would be very fitting if the students took their power back, Ramtha had a march, and nobody came.

Yes, ostracism. It works both ways, now, doesn't it?

Re: Abuse at RSE

I guess for the same reason that the new one have not reported,the wine partys,the sex abuse,the drinking of water mix with product find in Draino,the rush to Prozac, and now twinkees,(That one I would Have like that).
Like Tree mention before, When you are in you do not see it,just when you are out and have you critical thinking back that you see it.

Re: Abuse at RSE

This was fairly recent, earlier this year in March.
We had been divided in groups by which area of the
arena in which we were sitting, A, B, C, D. Two groups
would do one discipline, while the other groups did
another. The group I was in was instructed to go out
to the field to do our cards. This involved getting all
the wet gear on, duct taping boots to pants, it was
very cold and the field was a mudbath, so we were all
getting ready to go out. One of the guards came running
inside the hall shouting, 'our teacher is here-our teacher
is here! Out to the field!' Everyone just ran (we all
were preparing to do our cards so many were in the middle
of gearing up). When we got outside to the field all
the while the guard shouting, 'hurry, hurry - our teacher
is here' - we were told to engage in the neighborhood
walk. JZ as "Ramtha" was there (supposedly) and in
doing my walk, I VERY CONFIDENTLY FOCUSED and walked right
in front of her down the field and into the creek
where my boots filled with mud at which point "she/he"
began shouting to everyone to come upfield where she/he
was, and those, like me with inches of water in our
boots tried running upfield in the slick, sinking mud.
Still trickling out of the arena were mothers with their
"baybays" in strollers, smaller children, elderly.
Then JZ as "Ramtha" began shouting, 'are you well?
Are you well? -as to shame those walking slowly. Once
I was close enough to her I noticed she was dressed in a
very feminine style coat and feminine boots,(I love boots
so I noticed how small the feet looked). Onstage, she
wears bigger 'shoes' as "Ramtha (TM)," or it appears
as such. I don't know what she was doing - maybe initially
came out as herself then decided to pull a "Ramtha (TM)" on
us and get her jollies watching everyone run to her.

We were then very harshly admonished, with whatever she was
shouting, "if you could see your bands you'd cry." Then, my
Blue College students are one mind and they come running
when I'm here." Yeah lady, YOU RUN WITH A BABY IN A STROLLER
on a muddy field-a bit dangerous no matter what your
focus is-because when you have a baby with you, that baby
ought be your PRIMARY focus, imo. Our group was thoroughy
reprimanded by her as "Ramtha." We were just awful, according
to "she/it." I was feeling quite ticked at her for
being so unrealistic particularly when children were
involved, and I stepped even closer to the front line
of students, so I could better observe "her/him/whatever."

Then she called those who were 'not well' to come up front
Probably about 10-15 people stepped forward, some with
canes, walkers, oxygen tank, and otherwise. She/He
told these people to leave their canes, walkers, etc.,
and "use HER?HIS? mind to walk without them." She would
walk further down the field while the people struggled,
with her saying "use my mind" repeatedly. At first, I
remember thinking, is this going to be some kind
of "miracle" - these people using their will to do
what they couldn't? While they struggled to get to her
eventually did, I could overhear some of what she was
saying to them. She told one woman she was too overweight,
another I saw her shaking her finger at, and this one
really bothered me - the elderly woman who uses an
oxygen tank with a nasal canula-JZ as "R" said, 'can't you
take that "thing" out of your nose? I was seething at
this point. I don't think any of these people were looking
to be "victims" for "secondary gain" - attention seekers.
Then she/he/it did the same thing going back up the field.
This was all being filmed although she/he/it did shout
at the film crew to not film the faces, I believe, of
the people creeping toward her. At least, initially, for
there was one woman who used a can, a woman who was about
middle-aged. She was the last one, struggling so very
much it appeared, she apparently didn't have the use of
one leg/foot and dragged it, but JZ as "R" contined
to shout, 'use my mind' and the crowd was in a frenzy
clapping and shouting. I did not see a miracle. I saw
a woman struggling on the field without her cane.
I began to feel sick over the sight because I knew this
woman obviously could walk as she was, but the cane was
to help her get around with ease. She couldn't walk this
way and manage to do normal everyday things. I just stared
and prayed within myself that the woman not fall.

I looked at JZ/JR who had turned her head away and I KNEW
for certain then it was JZ, because there was a sad and
pained look on her face. Did she realize for a split moment
what she was doing to this woman?

It was not a healing. It was a 'display' exploiting those
with disabilities.

Later that evening, the entire thing was shown to the
whole arena, with people yelling and cheering, loud LOUD
music, the camera sweeping the arena. I sincerely hope
I am not anywhere visible in that mess, for I felt
the entire thing was in direct opposition to my own
beliefs, regardless of how compromised my mind was-I
obviously felt something before attending because I
sincerely did not want to go, but didn't want to not
be current, since I believed there must be more to
learn that is 'secret' to Blue College. Not so.
Primary was given the Blue College teachings via video.

The rest, I posted elsewhere as to how and when I left.

IMO, the above was serious exploitation of disabled
students. As a health pro, I was sickened to my
stomach. I'd already told one friend I knew I wasn't coming
back, and I just could not wait to leave the area
completely, fly out and away from the madness.

Anything accomplished at that place is due to the will and
effort of the individual doing it. There is no need
to give your mind and money to this woman, for any
reason. Everything she teaches is found elsewhere-for free.

It's a business-her attorney claims, right?

Re: Abuse at RSE

I mean to write, "one woman used a CANE - not can.
So goes the typing!

Re: Abuse at RSE

G2G -- thanks for your story / post ... I'm going to print it and show it to my mother when she gets home... I'm sorry you had to go through all that.. Hugs.

Re: Abuse at RSE

"It was a display exploiting those with disabilities."

Yes, and it was more than that.

"USE MY MIND," directed "Ramtha."

That is insidious mind control. What kind of psychological dependence was engendered in that moment? What kind of embarrassment and humiliation was felt by those unexpectedly put "onstage" and told to "perform?"

Did anyone have the courage to say, "Ramtha, leave me alone. I don't have this condition because I chose it."


"USE MY MIND," - how incestuous.

Re: Abuse at RSE

This entire post "Abuse at RSE" link, ought to be posted across the web and also on the yahoo groups, RSE blogs, sent to the "The Secret" people, and anyone else JZ partners with, including Eldon Tylor (Inner Talk), even BTO listerner groups.

I mean, this is cruel and intentional punishment, while making people think they deserve or are conquering themself.

Man...WoW...and people still weren't standing up for themself. And children too? Nawh...yeah, something can be done to stop this. The Ole timers ought to contact 'Primetime,' 'Dateline,' '20/20,' '60 Minutes,' the newspaper(s) with your stories.

I mean, do you fear JZ will come after you?

Re: Abuse at RSE

Do we fear Jz?
Very good question.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Frog Prince: "I remember a few years ago, I went on stage with everyone, dancing around 'r' and it was crazy. At one point I locked eyes with jr - held it - asking in my mind, 'who the f*** ARE you?'..SHE broke the gaze - it was clearly JZ. I knew from that time on..."

Frog Prince, I also did the same thing when we (the students) sat in the audience as she came on stage, and stood on stage holding a long stare across the room before speaking. She locked eyes with me, and I looked back at her hard, letting her know I'm staring right back, and said in my mind "who the f*** Are you? SHE broke the stare/gaze (like rolling her eyes at me) and continue to look over the audience.

After her presentation, she lower her head, bowed down, and I looked her straight into the eyes, and she return the same (as it appear), and I looked back at her with a grin sending to her..."Okay girl...get it right, lets be real here, people trust you, I know what's up, don't f***k-up!"

But you know, I couldn't help but feel a lot of fear, I mean fear in the audience. I didn't feel this peaceful, uplifting, joyful vibe (as advertised) swirling around the room. I was picking up on peoples fear. It was kinda overwheliming in an uneasy way.

This is one thing I hear people saying; "She was looking at me, the whole time." How is it possible for this to be (she looking at everyone individual) at the same time. Is it some where in the mind of people that they crave her attention so much, that they think, they are gettin all of JZ's attention. I mean, isn't that the kind of thing we want from our parents or love one.

That whole clashing of the bodies, reminded of a scene from "Braveheart."

Re: Abuse at RSE

good point IUB: why else defining herself as "The mother" or, better "The father"?!...to the point of saying that Jesus was referring to Ramtha when he mentioned "my Father in the sky"...oh, please, give me a break! (but most of us fell for that, didn't we?!)
I don't know about your personal experience, and I am talking to everybody reading this now, but all the people in RSE (me included) that I know well enough to know also about their families had or have some kind of lack (for many different reasons) of the "father figure"...and that's one point that she knows and uses to get people hooked...

Re: Abuse at RSE

re "I couldn't help but feel a lot of fear, I mean fear in the audience. I didn't feel this peaceful, uplifting, joyful vibe (as advertised) swirling around the room. I was picking up on peoples fear. It was kinda overwheliming in an uneasy way."

It's the fear of the bogey man, somebody who says they are going to get you... all of us as children had fears, you know, monsters, nightmares, alligators under the bed ( I would jump real wide to get out of bed in the middle of the night..!!) So, when the story is told about Mr Wizard coming back 35,000 yrs to 'put us down' - well, I think the inner child reacts.

I wanted to comment about feelings such as frustration, 'getting ticked' anger, etc. at jr. ALL have felt these emotions - our response to the LACK of critical thinking. Tension rose to the occasion, but suppressed - pushed it under. With time, the rise is no longer elicited. Suppression is a coping mechanism in this 'tribe.' Maybe my authority issues give me low tolerance for being controlled. Or, my tolerance for ambiguity served me when dissonance was HIGH. Internally, I was always getting ruffled by something stupid from the beginning. Guards, rules, disciplines, 'we have always done it this way'(finish the sentence with your favorite BC truism) yuck!

I came to learn, not be controlled. But control was everywhere - a narrow worldview, something I was not used to. I remember thinking, I must not be a good candidate in rse, are these other people dullards or what? they sure don't seem to get as riled as I do... It doesn't make sense, I handle the business world ok...

Repugnance for JR's treatment of disabled people, was pivotal in my early 'graduation.' Telling that guy he didn't need his wheelchair, when he was paraplegic - really vile. Again, 'testing' her control over the crowd.. was she able to induce these people to leave? I think some. strengthening core believers by sacrificing the weak.. pretty Darwinian, So what's the next evolution that will knock out Mind Control - bacteria & viruses? (no minds to control, just infinite adaptability.) Just think about MRSA at the ranch while people are doing C&E.. omg.

Re: Abuse at RSE

What is MSRA?

Re: Abuse at RSE

MRSA... interesting question and problem.

Staph aureus is a normal bacteria that everyone has on the surface of their skin. A healthy person's immune system handles normal garden variety staph infections without problem. However, Methicillin Resistant Staph Aureus (MRSA), is another animal, a tough staph infection that has become resistent to many antibiotics. It can show up in the lungs, the urine, wounds, and systemically in the blood. A person with MRSA can acquire it in the community or from a healthcare environment. When a person comes into a hospital with MRSA, they are put into isolation and anyone visiting or providing care must gown and glove before entering the room. If the infection is in the lungs they also must wear a mask, as the vector or method of transmission, is by water droplet. Depending on the severity and location of infection, a person with MRSA will merit a referal to the Infectious Disease doctors and be put on daily IV antibiotics, the big guns, for 4-8 wks. A lower level of infection can sometimes be treated with appropriate oral antibiotics which a sensitivity test shows the strain is sensitive to. Extra precautions are taken to wipe down surfaces, and any utensils or materials used in the room are discarded, and never leave the room. This is done because health care people are in constant contact with other sick, immune-compromised or diminished, or elderly, people to whom they do not want to transmit this infection. The incidence of MRSA has increased every year since they started tracking the infection.

Three cultures clear of MRSA infection are required before a person can be said to be clear of the infection. Sometimes a culture will continue to show infection but if the person is asymptomatic (without symptoms), the infection is said to be colonized, at a low level that does not affect the person, ie. their system handles but does not eradicate. Anyone in health care is well aware of MRSA and it is not new news. It has shown up in the news lately because of the untimely death of a young person and infection by several others. Suddenly, information about MRSA is appearing in newspapers everywhere.

MRSA in the lungs is diagnosed by sputum culture. Usually a person will show signs and symptoms of pneumonia such as a cough/cold that does not go away and this is diagnosed by xray. If the infection continues to not respond to normal treatment then a sputum culture is obtained to tell if MSRA is involved in the lungs.

So...C&E....the good news...if a person who had pneumonia or a urinary tract infection developed a MRSA resistant strain that was not treated, they would be either too sick (or dead) to go to an event. If a person developed a cold right before an event, I warrant that they probably wouldn't court pneumonia and would think twice before putting their health in danger by sleeping out in the cold and tramping through wet, cold muddy weather. That is IF their thinking ability were still intact and they didn't feel so compelled to keep current that they would go to an event sick. If a person had MRSA colonized in the lungs, with a compromised immune system that can't clear the infection, they usually are unhealthy in many other ways, and have other concurrent conditions, like diabetes, edema, congestive heart failure, etc. They wouldn't show up at the ranch, it would just be too strenuous for them. The people who show up at the ranch know what happens there and self-select themselves for (always hopeful) success. If they know they have a condition that would guarantee their failure they wouldn't come or even attempt it. I would be more concerned that a person doing C&E developed a cold there at the ranch, transmitted it in water droplets to someone else who caught the cold. They could get pneumonia as a secondary infection to the cold, and MRSA as a secondary infection to the pneumonia depending on their immune system, but I wouldn't think that MRSA would be transmitted as a primary infection (because of the healthly population involved).

The bad news....MRSA is highly infectious in the right conditions. It can be transmitted communally...in locker rooms, sharing towels, etc. through breaks in the skin. I'm not positive but I believe this is how those young people got it. The dirty ranch environment isn't the place to be if you have a cut or a wound. There are very many bodies jammed in close together sharing facilities. Good handwashing is of the utmost importance. Keeping wounds clean and dry and covered, and changing dressings as needed is of the utmost importance. Signs of infection... skin becomes reddened, swollen and inflamed, hot to touch, drainage increases or has colors (yellow, green) and is purulent (slimy), has an odor, pain increases and is burning, throbbing or radiating, and the wound doesn't heal in the normal time you would expect a wound to heal...REQUIRES a visit to your doctor.

All of the above is just common sense. Hope this helps understanding. If anyone has ever gotten MRSA after a visit to the ranch, they should post now.

Re: Abuse at RSE

"I'm going to print it and show it to my mother when she gets home"

Use extreme caution if you do this.
You have to understand, until G2G posted her experience up there, I did not realize how abusive it really was until
I just now read it. And I have been away for over a year, and just realized it is a cult 5 months ago.
I do not think your mother is going to
"get it".
Becuase, when G2G wrote that, I could totally relate to that pandemonium in the arena-the whipped up belief with music and all, that these were 'miracles in motion'-very evangelical.

Your mother will be on a "R" high when she comes home.
JZ/R has even addressed this.
"You come to see me because you need a 'hit'. You leave, and you are high."

It is a very false high, because all those 'disciplines' dis- associate you from who you are and then you THINK you are changing reality, when the truth of it is, it is the SAME.

So those people, unless you are at a point where G2G was in her exiting the group, TOTALLY believed these were coming miracles.

On a side note...
the woman with the cane, used to be JZ's head gardener. She fired her citing:
"lack of production".

The ACLU would have a grand time with that one. But the woman still believes and goes to the ranch. She lives in abject poverty with help from the state.
(Although, I bet if you asked her,
her life is "remarkable").

Re: Abuse at RSE

"the teaching is available on 2 audio CDs, it's one of JZ's new releases. "
thanks for that.
Not that I am going to run out and get them.
I do know all the old cassettes were destroyed, so I am sure the re-release of "teachings" in CD from keep people employed at the ranch ...not to mention a streaming income for you-know-who.

Re: Abuse at RSE

"I do not understand why former RSE students have not sent anonymous complaints en masse to the Washington State Attorney General's office demanding an investigation into these occurences."

That is exactly why I posted on the political thread those contacts and addresses.
I sent mine in to the attorney general last week.
EVERYONE on this site ought to.


file a complaint.
file it all the way through.
If you say "war by internet", this is one way.
That, and the media.
Write to 20/20-ask for a follow-up.
Write to 60 minutes.
Write to Keri Brenner at the Olympian and tell her to finish the story.
kbrenner@the olympian.com

Re: Abuse at RSE

Tree says:

>>Use extreme caution if you do this.
You have to understand, until G2G posted her experience up there, I did not realize how abusive it really was until
I just now read it. And I have been away for over a year, and just realized it is a cult 5 months ago.
I do not think your mother is going to
"get it".
Becuase, when G2G wrote that, I could totally relate to that pandemonium in the arena-the whipped up belief with music and all, that these were 'miracles in motion'-very evangelical.

Your mother will be on a "R" high when she comes home.<<

Intellectually I know this... But my "reaction" is I just want to grab her and say READ THIS... I am actually very anxious right now, not knowing what her state will be when she comes home tomorrow... I am usually a little leery of when she gets back from an event because several times on her return she has seemed "down" or depressed... Someone else told me it was likely because she was coming off that high... But after reading this board and knowing more of what goes on, the picture that runs through my mind is that she has been put through hell and her psyche is wounded and hurt.. It's probably a little of both....Anyway, I am going to be jumpy until I see her and know she is ok.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Another thing to consider when mom gets home is that her emotional state may be relative to the event and "Ramtha's" emotional state. Some events are "good" in that the students are told they are just about at enlightenment. Other events, "he" rips them apart and tells them they are the scum of the universe.

So, depending on how the event went in that regard, mom may be reflecting this in her own emotional state.

"Ramtha" has frequently talked about how students need/want to come back to see "him", to get their fix ( a positive thing as it's presented ) because they get an energy high (from his awesome bands of course). Then, when students go home, the High fades away over about two weeks time.

That's the sales pitch, anyway.

Re: Abuse at RSE

"Some events are "good" in that the students are told they are just about at enlightenment. Other events, "he" rips them apart and tells them they are the scum of the universe."

I never thought about that, but that is very true. TOTALLY.
Wherever JZ 's state of mind is at,
is where the group's mind is at.

Re: Abuse at RSE

"I do not understand why former RSE students have not sent anonymous complaints en masse to the Washington State Attorney General's office demanding an investigation into these occurences."

Something tells me that ANONYMOUS complaints will not be effective. To investigate complaints against RSE, wouldn't the AG's office need to get the facts by interviewing the people who are complaining? To build a court case, wouldn't they need people who were willing to testify, or to provide signed statements?

Re: Abuse at RSE

I know from work in other areas, anonymous letters carry no weight. It does NOT mean that your information will be divulged to the organization or individual you are complaining about. But they have to know if you are a real person or simply a "character," a la "ramthat."

She does not have magical powers. Those with true psychic abilities don't frighten people silly to suit their own agenda. One can lose any ability as well when abused.

She claims there is no "good and bad" - just "experience." Okay. If there is no "good and bad" then there has to be "good and bad" - don't know if the idea I'm trying to convey is getting through since I believe there is a better way to explain this. (maybe after my "stupid" (not) "human brain" takes a lunch break.

Re: Abuse at RSE

The "they" above, is not the RSE group, but the state agency you are complaining to. Just wanted to clarify this.

Re: Abuse at RSE

My idea concerinig the complaints was to "overload" the AG's office with so many letters that they'd be compelled to investigate.
Personally I'm very skeptical about any type of complaint procedure as my husband has worked as a civilian for the military for twenty years in Europe. The corruption is beyond the imagination. I used to think that as an American I had the support of my government in reporting wrong-doing and that the weak were protected. That is pure b***. Those with money, power, and rank are the ones being protected. I know I'm cynical, but I've seen things here that would break your heart. And, I've read posts on this Forum that had tears streaming down my face. I am going to send letters to 20/20 and 60MIn. because the media, being sharks,love the controversy.One might as well use it to one"s advantage.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Hey guys, are you going to the meeting on Saturday at 7pm held in Yelm Middle School?

Re: Abuse at RSE

Were my bilocation skills only up to par! I have another commitment and would have to fly in. How about a weekend in New York City!
I'm sure this will be a very healing meeting, and possibly help currents "observe" themselves for what has become of their minds.

Re: Abuse at RSE

DF posted, "Hey guys, are you going to the meeting on Saturday at 7pm held in Yelm Middle School? "

I hope everyone can and will go. It will be quite an eye opener. More than you realize !

My two cents.

Re: Abuse at RSE


Will a video be made like the last meeting? I'm out of state and can't make the trip.

Re: Abuse at RSE


You betcha..

Re: Abuse at RSE

Here is wishing all of you well. I hope you have a wonderful, productive, meeting. I'll be sending good energy from accross the waters.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Ramtha told us that our bodies had too much iron in them and that the iron attracted the harmful radiation from the sun.

The ratio in our bodies was supposed to be iron, zinc, copper and he was telling us to take the copper to turn the ratio into copper, zinc, iron.

That was there reason for the copper shielding and copper hats also to protect from the harmful radiation from the sun......nothing in the US compared with the holes in the ozone layer downunder.

So people got on the marketing wagon and put copper flakes in paint and put copper threads in material for sewing into capes, hats etc.

I know a person who did stand up to Ramtha in the arena. She did not like the way he was degrading a woman about her relationship. She was removed from the event by staff.

In another incident a student was accused by another of intentionally tripping them up. Spaces were cramped and she told me she did not do it intentionally at all. She got taken to the stables by staff and told they would give her her money back and she would be forced to leave. It was right at the beginning of a 3 day event.

She told them she was not going to as it was her school and without people like her the school could not exist.

They gave her back her cheque. She tore it up and shoved it in Vicki Cady's mouth (staff member of early years and JZ's right hand lady.....called Master General and behaved like one too). She did not leave.

I really enjoyed the story. Vicki Cady really bullied students and herded them like cattle.

Re: Abuse at RSE

The way the Attorney General's office works is that you have to fill out a from which you can download from their website.

You have to fill in your personal details and then answer the questions regarding the complaint.

There are only a few questions but you can write up to about 7000 words for each one.

1. Explain why you have not contacted the business.

2. Explain your complaint in detail.

3. What do you think the business should do to rectify your complaint.

The complaint then gets dealt with by one of the volunteer office staff. They take a look at it and forward it to the business for a response. Both the complaint and response are on publicly available record.

A complaint does not actually get to an attorney unless one of the volunteer staff decides it is worthwhile to pass it on. The staff are not lawfully qualified.

I spoke to one on the phone and asked her how she assesses whether to pass it on or not.

She said she has been at the job for a while and she gets "an intuition." There is no numbers requirement however big numbers do attract attention. They also have access to lodgements with the AG department in other states against the same business.

The value as I see it is that the lies of RSE are actually on public record.....a non-erasable confession as the response I got from JZ Knight's attorney was filled with lies.

Re: Abuse at RSE

This thread is making me cringe. I've had to hit "page back" a few times and then make myself hit forward again and keep reading. this is really really disgusting and painful to read. I really do not want to have any even vague association with the school, even less than I already have.

Re: Abuse at RSE

Hey Tree, send me the info I requested you please.