Enlighten Me Free

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JZ's record on predictions?

One thing I can't seem to discern here is whether JZ ever addressed why all the dire things Ramtha predicted in 86 never came to pass.

Does anyone know if she or any of her minions ever explained why she was just so very wrong or lying?

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

According to the "teachings"/dogma** when dire predictions do not occur it is because the "students"/stooges have CHANGED THE TIMELINE.
As the result of their superior focus, of course. AND the fact that they have changed the timeline is proof that their spiritual power is developing. So if you want to be god just do your "disciplines"/mind numbing techniques and come to the next event. Don't forget to bring the ca$h.

**dogma: a point of view put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

Or alternatively, 'he' and/or his buddies stepped in to lend us poor unfortunate ones a hand. **insert dry heave**

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

but you'd better still prepare in your hovel. becaue somethings can't be bent. they are going to happen. but focus and maybe they won't. but they will. so prepare.

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

Right! Well, I mean confusingly, put zyx.

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

He or his buddies step in to lend us poor unfortunate ones a hand?

Well, that is only on a GOOD day! The rest of the time we aren't worth saving and he is leaving to go beyond Point O.

(Does this remind anyone of an alcoholic family dynamic?)

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

It was only a few years ago in audience that Ramther told the students how lucky they were. S/he referred to "himself" as a "Dark Lord, indeed." and that we were lucky he lived on this planet, because he likes it here. On other planets, he is not so kind and he is feared as a dark lord.

So, what's the psychoanalyses on that one ?

SOCIOPATH ?

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

the planetary allignment:everybody knew what will happen were it floods were you r save.[i wonderd how you can be save in the woods with tremendous storms ther r trees flying around]next event after the anounced catastrophe NOT ONE WORD.nobody dared to ask of course including me .i was a newby.during the big earthquake which happened for real not a tiny variation from the eventshedule.i heard that they let the people continue c&ebreath.the staff ran out of the building.then they finaly decided to emty the arena untill it was declared safe.not from allknowing ramtha from officials.

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

Denotes: As others, I find your astute articulations regarding the JZ/Ramtha phenomena so rest- full. You’re able to clearly and coherently express what so many of us here have been struggling to say. You seem to have matured into a balanced openhearted man, and I suspect you ‘walk your talk’. Thank you – from the heart space beyond the words out of which yours flow.
And – do you remember/have an audio tape(s) from the mid-80s when the audio recording of “Dialogues” began – and JZ/Ramtha was so proud, proclaiming that his words would live and still be found true 100 years from now. ??
The “teachings” from the mid-80’s to the present shifted 180 degrees from the “teachings” of the late ‘70’s to about ’85 on the pivotal proclamation: “I lied”. About the time of the infamous “Gathering of the Eagles” (i.e. when those folks who had uprooted their lives and moved to Yelm to be near Ramtha were specifically asked by JZ(’s staff) to attend a special evening with Ramtha) - is when Ramtha started proclaiming “I lied”. For example, initially we were told that we chose our parents. (I think) it was in the Gathering of the Eagles talk that Ramtha said we weren’t smart enough/evolved enough/conscious enough to have chosen our parents. One of the most harmful contradictions in the early 90’s was the infamous turn around from ‘go to the Light’ when you die, to “DON’T GO to the Light – “they’ll” eat you. …. The “I lied” proclamation has been a consistent, and perhaps with increased frequency, proclamation, - according to those who have been involved with Ramtha since the mid ‘90’s to 2000 and have posted here. Usually, its been my observation, that the “I lied” comes up after JZ has found a new book/source of Ramtha teachings – such as the “DON’T GO to the Light” fiasco (a book purposely given her to see if it would show up as a "teaching") – or --- a prediction hasn’t come true. The absurdity that the “Students” changed the universe from its late ‘80’s collapse is monumental. Who, for instance, were the students of those days – - They must be practically Godlike now – wealthy, healthy, wise beyond normal human capacity, glowing models of the possible human become Christ – Right? Has anyone in Yelm seen such powerful Beings? Surely they would have found their way into media recognition around the world. … Or are they in fact, for the most part dead, diseased, alcoholic, old before their time, impoverished beyond their wildest imagination, broken Brothers and Sisters, who you can usually recognize by their ashen complexion, weary faces, slightly bent posture, a greyness beyond merely physical appearance. I say this with no intention of judgment or sarcasm or ridicule or demeaning-ness in any way…. As the song from the 60’s stated – “there but for fortune go you and I…” …. There but for the Grace of Whatever I was awakened out of the hypnotic trance of Ramtha. In addition, the folks who attended Ramtha Dialogues and Intensives were not a “group” – the teaching then was about the worthlessness of disciplines and the stupidity of groups and group consciousness. From ’86 to the beginning of “The School” the focus was on fear, preparedness, being in the right/safe place, not on healing the world and preventing its collapse. ----
The questions remain: why/how did/do we accept a Master/Hierophant/Teacher who consistently lies, and brags about the lies – particularly when caught lying; – What other Master/Hierophant/Teacher, from any true sacred tradition acted in such a manner --- their teachings may have evolved in depth and understanding, and more than likely they’ve been abused and twisted into lies by others, but I have never heard of a true teacher who purposely and consistently and proudly lied. -- Again, the absurdity of it all – what, if when we were being taught the basics of reading and writing – and every day the teacher changed the order and pronunciation of the letters of the alphabet?!? – so that we could learn better??? Hello schizophrenia, here we am.

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

>>and that we were lucky he lived on this planet, because he likes it here. On other planets, he is not so kind and he is feared as a dark lord.<<

Maybe we can convince JZ/R to take a trip on one of those space ships that allows people to pay for the priviledge of being a passenger -- and then boot her out when it's passing by Mars!

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

Hey Graced,


Graced wrote:

"The “teachings” from the mid-80’s to the present shifted 180 degrees from the “teachings” of the late ‘70’s to about ’85 on the pivotal proclamation: “I lied”. About the time of the infamous “Gathering of the Eagles” (i.e. when those folks who had uprooted their lives and moved to Yelm to be near Ramtha were specifically asked by JZ(’s staff) to attend a special evening with Ramtha) - is when Ramtha started proclaiming “I lied"

Amazing. I wonder how many of her current students of this "school" she has dreamed up know her tawdry history. "I lied" can't look too good on a brochure.

JZ is really sicker than even I imagined.

Graced wrote:

"For example, initially we were told that we chose our parents. (I think) it was in the Gathering of the Eagles talk that Ramtha said we weren't smart enough/evolved enough/conscious enough to have chosen our parents. One of the most harmful contradictions in the early 90’s was the infamous turn around from ‘go to the Light’ when you die, to “DON'T GO to the Light – “they'll” eat you. …. "

Well as sick as this is, it isn't without some obvious comic value. This signifies a really interesting shift. JZ is obviously venting her anger over being marginalized by some very bad publicity around that time [the ABC story and others]

Sadly, she vents it on the only people who would take it from her: Those invested enough in her and "Ramtha" to try to make sense of it.

My guess is she was fairly ****** off at not being able to hold onto the "legitimacy" conferred on her by Shirley MacLaine who wrote about JZ favorably in one of her books. I hope Shirley MacLaine has had the sense to rethink and retract her endorsement.

About this time others in the "new age" movement were gaining on her market share [notably Lazaris] and I think she like somebody had to pay for this betrayal.

Alcoholic personalities think anyone who loves them must have something wrong with them, so low is their own self esteem. I think JZ had/has a special level of contempt for anyone who showed her too much respect and admiration. So deep her self hatred is and was, I believe.

Who better to pay than those who were devoted enough to her to pick up and move to Yelm WA on nothing more than her recommendation.

It is quite disgusting and the whole idea of introducing a cosmology where going into the light will get you "eaten" is so ridiculous it had to be delivered in utter contempt of the audience.

Btw, How can you be an immortal god and be eaten? :) LOL but I digress...


Graced wrote:

"Usually, its been my observation, that the “I lied” comes up after JZ has found a new book/source of Ramtha teachings – such as the “DON’T GO to the Light” fiasco (a book purposely given her to see if it would show up as a "teaching") "

That's very interesting. Somebody gave her a book just to see if it would turn up in the teaching? Hilarious. Although its worth noting that JZ used such a frightening book to pilfer from. God knows there are plenty of love and light spiritual books she could have cut and pasted and come up with some grandiose BS explanation about why what Ramtha said was going to happen didn't.

Nope, she gravitates [because of her own bottomless well of hostility] to some crackpot book that tells you not to go the wrong way or you will be eaten.

Graced wrote:

"absurdity that the “Students” changed the universe from its late ‘80’s collapse is monumental. Who, for instance, were the students of those days – - They must be practically Godlike now – wealthy, healthy, wise beyond normal human capacity, glowing models of the possible human become Christ – Right? Has anyone in Yelm seen such powerful Beings? Surely they would have found their way into media recognition around the world. … Or are they in fact, for the most part dead, diseased, alcoholic, old before their time, impoverished beyond their wildest imagination, broken Brothers and Sisters, who you can usually recognize by their ashen complexion, weary faces, slightly bent posture, a greyness beyond merely physical appearance. I say this with no intention of judgment or sarcasm or ridicule or demeaning-ness in any way…". "


Very sad. Would be interesting to hear from people who were around then.

Graced wrote:

"In addition, the folks who attended Ramtha Dialogues and Intensives were not a “group” – the teaching then was about the worthlessness of disciplines and the stupidity of groups and group consciousness."

Yes, that is what I remember. It is why I was so shocked to see the teachings transform almost in a period of a few months from that focus to the "safety is in the group focus"

Perhaps JZ 's psychological limitations and greed needed a greater outlet and could no longer be contained.

Even the early teachings, in retrospect, were heavy with contradiction and the revelation of her husband's HIV diagnosis in 1985 gives MUCH insight into her injection of homophobia and weird concepts of sex into the material

Anyone else have info to share about the shift in the quality and basic message of the material>

Great post Grace, Thanks

DM

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

Hello
Respond to (have anyone in Yelm seen such powerful been?
Respond
A MASTER NEVER TELL direct quote from JZR
Voila!

Re: JZ's record on predictions?

There is no way of assessing who inhabits the body of JZ Knight, or if any external being is inhabiting it at all as no one else can see Ramtha that I am aware of.

Perhaps Tree having been on the inside might have more understanding if ANYONE ELSE can see Ramtha and if there is proof that they actually can? You give great insight from an insiders viewpoint Tree.

As I see it there could be more than one occupant presenting themselves as "Ramtha."

There is no evidence that the Jesus character JZ channelled long ago was Jesus.

There is also no evidence that Charles the equestrian was who he claimed to be. He certainly did not give very good 20th century horse advice because JZ and Jeff ended up in court and people lost money on investing in Arabian horses.

It is well known in the horse industry that when purchasing a horse the motto "caveat emptor" applies......let the buyer beware.....as there are many unscrupulous horse dealers. Maybe Charles was an 18th century horse DEALER (unscrupulous) and changed the title to sound more learned.

It is possible in my viewpoint that the Jesus character is the same being that humiliates people and uses profanities in the name of "Ramtha."

Once upon a time I "believed" ......not knowing any better at the time.

Now I know that it is better to to make assessments based upon objective observation as to make assumptions about invisible realms could be an open invitation to a fox amongst a chicken coop.