Sure people lose their money and time not well spent by attending RSE. But I would like to hear from you former students about the loss of emotions namely compassion for others. The reason I ask is I still have a number of professional relationships with current students and am a little unnerved by the approach to business that some of them take. The idea of manifestation for one; I have heard from one student that if your success is at another's hardship, then "so be it." Their feeling is that as there is no good or bad and we are here to reach our full potential. Then you can do whatever is necessary to get what you want. They are sort of congratulatory about acquiring wealth however they can. They look at it like they are just becoming good "creators" and that the rest of the world are less able.

What kind of monsters are being created at that school?

I appreciate any comments.

the words narcissitic sociopaths comes to mind...

After being in RSE for a while, you can end up with a staggering lack of empathy and compassion for others, particularly those outside the school, the people who don't possess all the Fabulous knowledge of the chosen few in Yelm. As a former student who left in 1998, my re-entry to the real world was marked by learning that in the real world, people don't go around pompously pointing out that someone "created" an unfortunate circumstance in their life because they were "victims". Or that people in the real world get rich by actually working for their money, instead of scamming fellow students, or waiting for "Omega" to come in, or buying gold to resell when the world economic system collapses?. It is funny and incredibly pathetic all at once.
I feel bad for a lot of the people still up there waiting around for fabulous wealth, while spending what little money the actually have on the School and school related fiasco's. I was one of them. I'll be posting more...

I totally commiserate with Leaf here in the entire post of theirs.

"my re-entry to the real world was marked by ": I found it truly amazing how compassionate and empathetic the real world was when
I had a new friend fly 3000 miles just to
be with me during my episodes I was experiencing when I first discovered that RSE was a cult. They flew in and cooked for me, drew my baths, made sure I slept, made sure I stayed connected to nature so I would not go crazy.
Then I had MORE new friends via a hobby,
call me, send countless blogs, asked if I needed anything.....
Then my brother and sister, who silently for my whole time at RSE were very concerned for me, offered me a place to stay until I got well.
People outside RSE are very real in this regards.
They are not mean.
They do not walk all over you.
They do not send out messages on a huge e-mail list to give thoughts of Blue Body healing and never follow through.
This was my re-entry into the world outside RSE.

In following Tree's comment- I was devastated/elated when I left the school. Devasted because no one in the real world gave a **** about all my "Ram said" knowledge. Elated because because no one based their friendship with me on how close I was to the cool crowd, the ones closest to the Queen Mother. No more Wine,X, no more waiting to become a billionaire due to Omega, no more watching my friends relationship go through hell because of the matchmaking going on by the old man.
A few months after I left, I got frantic calls from a few friends in Yelm. None of the would call to ask how my new life was, but they would call to warn me about 05/05/2000. It was as if the only way they could related to me being off the reservation was to filter it all through saving me from the end of the world. I was amazed, ****** and perversely energized by their sky is falling calls. So I purposely spent the day doing things I never could do there- laying out at the Beach, bodysurfing, eating good food (no freeze-dried thunder market disgusting anything) and ending it with a "social conciousness" Movie. I guess I was deprogramming myself.

To Tree,
Watcha has my name. I think I probably staffed for you more than once :)

I'm watching my friends in RSE go through a really weird mix of empathy and apathy. (For those who don't know- I never went to the school, I just know people close to me who do and I'm concerned for them).

Like, on a person to person level, they can be extremely empathetic, though it's often paired with this kind of empty patronizing tone, like they care alot, but only kind of. And when they hear about atrocities in the world, they get sad, but when I say that it's things they buy from multinational companies, etc, that are allowing these atrocities to happen, they give me the "we live in different realities" crap sometimes. though not always.

In terms of personal business, i.e. how they want to get success, the RSE student I know best is into LGAT stuff (Peak potential/Millionare Mind/Enlighten Warrior, if any of you know what those are), and Multi-Level Marketing stuff, both of which I consider very "emotionally removed" ways of making money.

I don't know. One of the weirdest struggles with me about Ramtha is figuring out how dangerous it is on a broader scale (i.e. is it making people be apathetic), because some RSE students i know, including my girlfriend and her best friend are very environmentally aware, etc, and not usually apathetic, except on certain occasions when the "That's the life you created" vibe surfaces

when discussing the situation in Africa, my RSE friend said "I hope they get their s*** together." I almost spit my artichoke out. That was all the compassion they could afford. Upon discovery that I regularly send money to help Africa, they told me that my guilt was making me a victim. They had no respect for me and my actions.
I felt very small.

And yet, I thought, isn't it a powerful thing to have the desire and ability to help someone else? Ramsters don't see that.

"isn't it a powerful thing to have the desire and ability to help someone else? Ramsters don't see that."

I think that's going too far. I know several people into RSE, and I wouldn't say they have a lot desire to help others. they don't express it always in the way i do, and sometimes i even get very annoyed at what seems to express itself as a weird apathy/arrogance, but I would say they are very caring people in many ways. Maybe your experience is different, but I don't like the blanket statement "Ramsters don't see that"

I feel like I should clarify that among my friends were the kindest, most generous people I knew in the school. I never really had a problem with many of the teachings even- more the small minded way that they were often used to justify a point of view, virtually any point of view. One of my favorite jokes? "How many Ramsters does it take to screw in a lightbulb? athousand! One to screw the bulb and the other nine hundred and nintynine to tell you what Ram said about it"
The lack of of employment skills, education, and the mindset that the world as we knew it was ending anyway, and just plain all talk/no action made life in Yelm interesting. Alanis Morissette wrote a great song called Baba, if you change the name to Ramtha...

I've seen them kneel with baited breath for the ritual
I've watched this experience psuedo higher levels
I've watched them leave their family in pursuit of their nirvana
I've seen them coming to line up from Switzerland and America

How long will this take, Baba?
How long have we been sleeping?
Do you see me hanging on to every word you say?
How soon will I be holy?
How much will this cost, Guru?
How much longer 'till you've completely absolved me?
I've seen them give their drugs in places of sacred altars
I've heard them chanting kali, kali, frantically
I've heard them rotely repeat you teachings with elitism
I've seen them boasting the roads, and forgein dangle woods, beat

How long will this take, Baba?
How long have we been sleeping?
Do you see me hanging on to every word you say?
How soon will I be holy?
How much will this cost, Guru?
How much longer 'till you've completely absolved me?

Ave Maria, Ave Maria...

I've seen them overlooking God in their own essence
I've seen their upward glances in hopes of instant salvation
I've seen their righteousness mixed with their own loving confessions
I've watched you smile at the people who bowed to kiss your feet

How long will this take, Baba?
How long have we been sleeping?
Do you see me hanging on to every word you say?
How soon will I be holy?
How much will this cost, Guru?
How much longer 'till you've completely absolved me?

Give me strength all knowing one
How long 'till enlightenment?
How much longer 'till you've completely absolved me?

Ave Maria, Ave Maria, Ave Maria, Ave Maria

Sorry, I didn't proof all the lyrics,
here are corrected ones.
I still think this song sums it up best for me.

Album: Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie

i've seen them kneel
with baited breath for the ritual
i've watched this experience raise
them to pseudo higher levels
i've watched them leave their families
in pursuit of your nirvana
i've seen them coming to line up
from switzerland to america

how long will this take baba
how long have we been sleeping
do you see me hanging on to
every word you say
how soon will I be holy
how much will this cost guru
how much longer 'til you
completely absolve me

i've seen them give their drugs up
in place of makeshift altars
i've heard them chanting
kali kali frantically
i've heard them rotely repeat your
teachings with elitism
i've seen them boasting robes and
foreign sandalwood beads
i've seen them overlooking god in
their own essence
i've seen their upward glances
in hopes of instant salvation
i've seen their righteousness
mixed without loving compassion
i've watched you smile as
the students bow to kiss your feet

give me strength all knowing one
how long 'til enlightenment
how much longer 'til you
completely absolve me

Leaf,

I gave Tree your info so she can contact you.

Whatcha

is she talking about Sai Baba?
And "R" used to point out people in the
audience who had gone to see Sai Baba
(JZ had found this out prior) and then
totally embarass the dude for
performing sex acts on Sai Baba all
in the name of the guru. I really felt for that guy in the audience, even though
the guy was so stuck up, you could see
it a mile away (Littlewiseone knows this dude).
and whatch-
that's cool

"I'm watching my friends in RSE go through a really weird mix of empathy and apathy. ....
Like, on a person to person level, they can be extremely empathetic, though it's often paired with this kind of empty patronizing tone, like they care alot, but only kind of. "

You hit the nail on the head.
People in RSE ARE compassionate....but I think mostly all intellectually.
You rarely see a person go out and help someone else build a house, donate money to causes in Dafur, etc
But they DO say it, and believe...
but I do not see too much action.

At least I have taught my son:
Actions speak louder than words.

It always amazed me that JZ or Ram, or apparently Greg recently would slag on any teacher, from Sai Baba to the Dali Lama.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Jesus said in the Gnoostic Gospels
"You see the sliver in your brothers eye but fail to remove the log from your own"
The stories about Sai Baba are all over the web, just like the Maharishi was when the Beatles went to see him. Notice they never went back.
Take the song that Lennon wrote, about the Maharishi mahesh Yogi- "Sexy Sadie" really listen to the lyrics, they sound like some of the comments on this forum, in terms of people finally realizing what they are dealing with- "Sexy Sadie, what have you done, you've made a fool of everyone".
Same with "Dear Prudence" a song about Mia Farrows little sister who locked herself in her room after the Maharishi showed up at midnight offering personal "enlightenment" sessions to her.
Somehow I don't think there will be too many cool songs to come out of our little school.

I was in the audience when "R" spat out our "faults" - "you're so small, you're so scared, your compassion!"

Apparently, "R" doesn't think compassion is a worthwhile trait, much unlike SIddartha, Jesus, and others who worked through their human traits and emotions to evolve into wisdom.

I'll never forget the manner in which "R" SPAT out the words, "YOUR COMPASSION!"

For those who do give up all power to RSE, JR has created 'androids' following her every command. Heck, for all we know, she could be a fembot!

G2G, you lost me at the fembot remark....

''''Somehow I don't think there will be too many cool songs to come out of our little school.''''

'Judy in Disquise" (John Fred and his Fabulous Playboys)


Judy in disguise, well that's what you are
Lemonade pie with a brand new car.
Cantalope eyes come to me tonight
Judy in disguise with glasses.

Keep a-wearing your bracelets and your new rara.
Cross your heart with your living bra.
Chimney sweep sparrow with guise.
Judy in disguise with glasses

Come to me tonight, come to me tonight,
Taking everything in sight,
Except for the strings on my kite.

Judy in disguise, well what you aiming for,
A circus of horrors, yeah, well that's what you are.
You made me a life of ashes, I guess I'll just take your glasses.

Again.,I must say the I am grateful for the existence of EMF.
Even though I was not in the school,I subscribed to "The Golden Thread". I confess that I just could never "get through" any of R's lectures on the front page. The language was so terrible. I like people to make their point quickly. I gave up and realized that the only reason I bought the paper was for the other articles. Ramtha was so full of contradictions. It was only when I saw "Creating Personal Reality" that I was impressed and considering attending a beginner event. I have read here that a beginner event is not indicative of the other events at RSE. Once again, thank goodness for EMF.

It is sad to read that students at RSE do not manifest the fundamental quality of an enlightened human...that of compassion. Greg Simmons has displayed his arrogance and apathy time and time again on BTO encouraged along by the two giggling "factorums". He is quite transparent and his "hiss" apparent over the air-ways.

I really hope the movement continues to gain strength and momentum so that the public becomes more aware of the abuse. Strike them where it matters"...in the pocketbook.

''''G2G, you lost me at the fembot remark....''''

Sometimes, due to the nature of the 'net, I don't know if people know I'm joking or if they are joking back! So forgive me if I misunderstand..... "Fembot" is from the movies "Austin Powers" with Mike Myers - the "fembot" was evil and unfeeling - I should have added a Sorry if I misunderstood you - maybe you were laughing.

I do remember the first time I saw "R" I thought to myself, holy puppetstrings! - her mouth moves like a puppet! (while 'being' "R". Was very strange. Of course, there was a great deal of wine onstage.

I'm really starting to see the "apathetic" side that I touched on a few days ago and that other have mentioned. 2 of my housemates (my girlfriend and our friend) are in RSE and now the girl's boyfriend more or less lives with us (meaning 3/5 of my house is into Ramtha!!! )

The new guy has the greyest morals I've ever seen in a nice person. He's great company, lots of fun, super nice and warm, but then completely doesn't care about worldy issues, etc anymore because everything is their choice, blah blah blah. I am a pretty politically/socially consious person (vegan, I buy sweatshop-free, shop at the local food co-op, etc), so this is really really hard for me to live with. His response to a conversation about Columbus being a rapist and murderer who is indirectly responsible for tens of millions of deaths was "Our lives are better now because of it, so I am happy for Columbus". AAAARRGGGG

The weirdest thing though is that of the three Ramsters in our house, his girlfriend has been going the longest (15-ish years) but is the most socially consious (volunteers a lot, working on starting a local organic cafe/restaurant, studying atrocities of Latin America, etc.) I just find it odd that the girl who's been going her whole life is the least affected by the apathetic morals of RSE. My girlfriend,w ho's been going for less than a year, is kind of in between on that scale. She cares very much about personal woes and such, but her worldy views are definitely becoming more apathetic by the day it seems.

I don't know what the point of all that was, I'm just frsuterated, heh.

on a totally silly sidenote: The guy I was mentioning above wears a RSE ALUMNI shirt every day now, and I constantly want to comment that there is no graduation from RSE, you're in there for life, so there is really no way to be an Alumni

zywxv -- I dunno, this puzzles me too -- the apathy coming from people you know are normally very caring and kind people... My mother has reflected a persona of love and peace for probably the last 15 years or so.. So much so that I called her "Saint Joan" once in the middle of an argument -- boy, was she mad!!.... So then when comments come from her like, "well it's your own fault" or "I just think you should take responsibility for yourself"... in situations where a little SUPPORT would have been appreciated -- I am no slacker, I'm all about self responsiblity -- it stuns me and is disconcerting... I have not had a close relationship with my sister for probably the past 15 or more years, so while her coldness is baffling to me, I don't really attempt to try to figure it out because I don't really "know" her much anymore anyway... and it's difficult... being able to tell where "Ramtha" leaves off and the "real" person begins... I kind of conclude with my own family that my mother's "love" persona is more or less just that... a persona that she projects.. and while I'm not saying she doesn't really feel some of that, I think she also feels conflicting and selfish feelings too -- she has always been on the narcissistic side -- and that wouldn't "look as good" as the love persona so she tries to hide those from herself and other people.. But somehow the line that JZ teaches about self responsibility makes it ok for my mother to actually voice those feelings.. . Like I said, hard sometimes to tell where R leaves off and the person begins, and vice versa... I guess what I'm saying is that in my mother and sister's case, while they are nice people, they tend to the narcissistic anyway and I don't blame R completely for the way they easily turn their backs on others.

Ok -- well now at the risk of sounding totally wishy washy, I'm going to reverse my position above and say that sometimes I think the narcissism I've noticed, has BECOME noticable *because* of their involvement with the school... After 7 + years, it's hard to tell if they would be that way w/o RSE's influence...

zywxv,

Concerning your roommates one thing to keep in mind is that JZ/"Ramtha's" "teachings" change continuously so no 2 Ramsters have heard exactly the same stuff. Except for some dogma which is repeated like a broken record (but I figure that is because JZ/"Ramtha" is short on new programming, er, I mean, material.

Did I say programming?