It seems to me that these group encourage a part of our self that goes unexpressed and that may be the REASON that we are drawn to them. I wanted more spirituallity in my life when I was first inspired my the Ram.

We join with others, like our self, who appear to be living outside of expressing our spiritual side, and we hear the words of the Ram… and get super charged, the CLAIMS that we are greater than just our subjective self being thrown about in our society.... is a very appealing quest.

BE... AlL you can BE.. is the hook.

Like really, who wants to continue to be at the effect of this world when these channels are SELLING the basic message “BE ALL YOU CAN BE”. smile.

I realize that in my life now, I am at 10 on the scale of 1 to 10 of being happy in my life… and the work that I.

My happiness does not come from just the money that I make today, but a sense of HELPING others. I don’t want to go into great detail but I own a small private nursing school and teach nursing. It is quite rewarding to see these young people who have the world in front of them, open the door of education and get LICENSED by our State to work in the Health Care profession.

I personally feel more happy now, then I was when I was being very selfish involved with these channels… blowing lots of money on their point-of-view in some quest to “Be ALL I can be”.

As I review my life, it was from a place of greed and lack, not self-love that I began my journey with them.

I also realize that when I was first drawn to these channels... although I owned a very successful business at the time.. I felt empty and missing something inside of me.

In truth, I joined these groups out of a LACK of something within me…. Rather than a feeling of being fulfilled …. WHOLE and complete… I simply needed and wanted something more…. Beyond just the a money machine in my business… and buying more THINGS of this world.

I would say now, although I lost everything over those years…. And started over again, several times and now, again, have a NEW business, I am more WHOLE and COMPLETE then I have ever been in my life.

I want for nothing…. But seem to be fulfilled by extending myself helping others.

For me, the rewards of helping others get there State Licensed is a BIG HIGH... You get to SHARE in the Joy and fullment of the goals of others.

I can only speak from my own point of view, and for now, I realize that I have always been far more happier when I am GIVING to others rather than just existing to make the next dollar or buy the next NEW THING for my home or myself.

Mystical Experience , well yes, but long… long… before my involvement in these groups, I always KNEW things…. And could SEE Aura’s and things.

I would say, for me, in the 90’s when I left ALL of these groups and just was alone with my self for many years… I began to have far more MYSTICAL experiences than I ever did when I was IN these groups.

Seems to me, everyone who gets involved in these groups…. Do so out of a LACK of something being fulfilled within self.

Seems to me, that when our personality is split and confused … only then would be ever think about investing all of our time and money in to these cult groups.

For me, as I became what I would call WHOLE… as a person, it became clearer and clearer for me, that I could NEVER again get all caught up in these types of things.

However, I do still QUESTION everything…. More than ever before.

For me, if I had it ALL… to do again, I would STILL most likely do it again, even knowing what I know now. … for where I was in those days, it was the only thing that I WANTED to do.

I truly have no regrets, even though I did spend lots and lots of money… but for me, making money has always been easy, this is not to say, that I did lose everything in the process of this crazy stuff…. But it also was great to know that I could and did RE-INVENT myself after about 3 years of wondering in the wilderness.

I also know, that not everyone seems to be able to pick them self up and move on so quickly. I simply do NOT know what makes one person able to do this and another not.

I am sure that each person that gathers here, has a great story like myself… As I read the many post here, I am most impressed with many of the posters here… and the level of deep contenplation about these things.

When I read the words of others, I find people who in my eyes today, who are walking on water…. Above the mass confusion that these groups have left in the wake of their journey.

I know that the people who come to these forums are either former students who need support, or former students who give support, or current students who want to debate or throw stones and call names.... or justify their position.

Perhaps, as humans, the justifiaiton of our positions in life is natural...

I know that just like myself, when my family tried to talk some sense into me about spending so much money and time with these groups, at those times in my life, I could not HEAR and would NOT listen to them. Perhaps I NEEDED those experiences. Who knows.

I do not so much feel like a victium... becuase as I look back, I realize it was my choice. I have no problem taking self-responisibility for it all.

I am not sure if you every truly HEAL from these things or simply just move on and integrate the past in some way that you can still function and re-create your life.

Perhaps TRUE HEALING.. is simply making a NEW LIFE CHOICE and movoing on.

I think the only thing that helped me in my life, is the QUSTION….. OK…. WHAT’s NEXT?

Smile. From that question, it seemed for me, I am always taken on another exciting adventure…. I had to return to college in my 50’s to up-date professional licensed and get new ones to open my school. It was not fast.... but it was one step in front of the other one.

For those who are left wondering what to do now... I can only say, move on.... put one foot in front of the other.... and MARCH ON.... listen and move toweards what you feel inspired to do.

The real problem is, the IDEA that things will INSTANTLY HAPPEN.... they will... with you marching on..... one step at a time.

It took me 1.5 years to open my school and begin to make alot of money again.

I can say not... I am no longer the person anymore who was involved with those groups… that person, lives only in the memories that seems to be fading into the past. … the new me, has been re-invented.

I feel like I have lived 50 life times in one in my memories of myself… and today, in my mid-50’s I feel just as excited about my new life, as I did in my 20’s.

Perhaps there is not just ONE Person within us... perhaps as we re-invent ourself... a NEW YOU Appears.

In closing, I just wanted others who are in the process of leaving this group to know, YES there is a GREAT life for you... after the RAM.

And in fact, you might be very surprised at the level of life that is waiting for you …..

At what ever age you find yourself... you can start all over again and re-invent yourself a new.

You might be older, but I am sure, you are much much wiser.

Blessings to you.
Smile.

and by the way.... I NEVER .... one time sat in lotus position and BLEW myh brains out...


I STOOD UP.... and MARCHED ON.... On Step at a time... On Day at a time...

Even JZ Knight.... SCHEDUES .... One event at a time.... and WORKS... to create her wealth.

If she did not.... and she could INSTANTLY CREATE IT.... there would be no school to MAKE MONEY off of students.

Smile.

Please allow me to borrow one of your sentiments...

"I do not so much feel like a victim because as I look back I realize it was my choice."

In fact what creates victims at RSE is known as "uninformed consent." Which is to say that an unwitting person who shows up at RSE does not comprehend what s/he is agreeing to. The bigger picture is not revealed.

Will a person make the same choice if the mind control is explained to them in advance?

A person becomes victimized by virtue of the fact that they do not have all of the relevant information.

At that is another conundrum created by "Ramtha" -
NO VICTIMS ALLOWED!

(Which is why you may believe it was a choice.)

I am happy to speak for myself on the following point that Whatever made, "Seems to me, everyone who gets involved in these groups…. Do so out of a LACK of something being fulfilled within self."

Okay, you may see it that way. But I don't. I went to RSE because I had enough intuitive experiences in my life that I wanted the additional information that I believed I would receive at RSE. I accepted their marketing as delivering what they said they would.

EWO, I agree totally with you point of "uninformed consent".

For my years at RSE, I do NOT consider myself a victim. If I tell folks on this website that I have something to offer them, and I am HONEST in delivering that to them, AS I DESCRIBED THE GOODS OR SERVICES, good for everyone. If I don't deliver what I CLAIM I am going to, I am responsible for that.

It is my contention that JZ Knight is responsible for undelivered services.

''''In fact what creates victims at RSE is known as "uninformed consent." Which is to say that an unwitting person who shows up at RSE does not comprehend what s/he is agreeing to. The bigger picture is not revealed.''''

Until you get deeper into it. Beginners have a 'flowery' happy and what they perceive to be a life empowering experience. The follow-up I went to was almost all videos until the last day, so it was fairly low keyed. The primary was something different altogether. Control and admonishments until the very end with the JR appearance and 'behold God.' People leaving not knowing what they were feeling or perceiving it to be a breakthrough they had a cough because it was 'fifth seal.' The more I come back to what IS the easier it is to see the place as a cult but something that's not so obvious to beginners. They can call it what they want but a rose is a rose no matter what you call it. I don't think JR is a rose and the connotation with the rose a symbol for a Christ makes me wonder what else is being subtly or not so subtly implied. Based on my observation. How many people in Yelm can afford the stuff in her new shops outside the compound? The prices are very high from my experience looking about.

It has taken years for many of us to SEE CLEARLY WHAT was being sold.... and the FACT that the items purchased form RSE was simply swamp land in LA LA Land in Yelm.

But Gosh... I did have FUN along the way.... even in the 5 ' of snow in Eagle Point at the Ranch in the early days in tents was an experience.

3 am at the the foot of the hill... marching up the 2 mile hill singing..... yes it was a cult... and we had some fun times.

The problem always seems, when you know it is time to go and leave... you are then cursed for leaving.

Just like most lovers, hat to see you leave.. and rarely welcome you back.. as they too have moved on..

All posts very well stated for each individual.
For me, about 2 years ago, I decided to go ahead with my dream of playing poker for a living ( I did not give up my job yet, as I am still in this process.No need to cut off your nose to spite your face!)
I would miss an assay, or an evening, and RSE students would say, "how can you possibly think of missing as event?"
To which I would reply, "I am living out my dream."
So I began to travel (which at times was admonished by Ramtha-copyrighted) and live
my life.
It was during the course of living my dream and life that I encountered 'other people' (you know, those ones in "social consciousness" who were beneath those who were in the school ).
I found those people I met out of RSE were much more kind, giving, gentler souls.
And being around them made me less confrontational and more trusting.
In all the time at RSE, in 18 years, I can count on one half of a hand, the number of times fellow 'students' gave a helping hand. And this was after I had been to numerous people's houses to help them build a portion of their house, or look after their children time and time again, or give a single mother who was in far greater need nearly all the money I had at the time (she was from a foreign country and creating money was not that difficult for me).
So for now, just having discovered that I was in such a cohersive group, I am putting one foot in front of the other and am very grateful for the strength that I have within myself.
I did have some incredible experieces while at RSE, but those I know, I did myself. No one else did it for me.
But these concepts could have been applied for free or from the sources from which JZ read about them, and I could have had those not at the ranch as well.
So the marketing is amazing....like the Wizard in the Wizard of Oz.
May we each continue on with our lives and our journies with the great support we have with each other!
Cheers!
Tree

The film "The Wizard of Oz" is a perfect analogy for RSE. The ending is very moving when the 4 of them are shaking with fear in front of the Wizard and the little dog Toto innocently pulls the curtain back to reveal nothing more than a scam.