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Joe - One thing keeps smacking me in the head more and more when I read about your CUT experiences. Scenario: me - exposed to multicultural experiences via my marriage, and thusly, other "views" of God and Jesus. I began to read everything I could get my hands on, Nag Hammadi, Vedas, Quran, Dhammmapada, Lost books of the Bible, etc.etc.etc. One day while browsing the bookstore for more to read, a title catches my eye: "The Secret Teachings of Jesus." I pick it up, read the back cover, and think, hmmm, interesting. So I buy other Claire-Prophet books, as well, have NO IDEA she was a leader of a cult, and integrating what I've read, seen and experienced.
I knew nothing about Claire-Prophet and was only interested in teachings on reincarnation and esoteric teachings - things I believed my Catholic upbringing had kept "hidden" or didn't care to acknowledge, much less divulge to the "flock."
So here I am, wondering - how much of Claire-Prophet was ripped off from elsewhere, and how was I affected by reading HER stuff so many years ago?
I think I'm finding the simplicity of the Dalai Lama's statement, "just live a good life" (to me, living and learning and assisting others whether or not they share my beliefs, skin color, gender, etc.)to be the singlemost important point of how I wish to live. Perhaps the "great search" is over. Just live life-and love others-not always so easy.
Maybe you can help define from where CUT "borrowed" teachings, so that I can wrap my brain around it and "drop" whatever I might still retain from reading the Claire-Prophet's interpretations!
You uncorked a vast barrell, but I'll be brief....
Elizabeth Clare Prophet [b 1939 as "Betty" Wulf in Red Bank NJ to a strict [emotionally abusive] Swiss father and American mom who was into metaphysics/psychic stuff/theosophy dabbler]. ECP had epilepsy from childhood causing "auras" and religious visions, some of past lives as interpreted for her by her mom. Betty/ECP had the disorder all her life, never could get a driver's license, and eventually developed dementia by 1995-6 with Alzheimers diagnosed by 1998. She stills lives under guardianship. She has 5 children.
ECP married at age 18 to a Mr Ytreberg, a practicing Christian Scientist. ECP studied at a Boston college for a degree in political science, played in the band.
Met Mark Prophet [age 42] on East coast when she was age 19 due to interest in his channeling St Germain and I AM masters. Mark was married w 5 kids at the time. Eliz and Mark began "the old in-out" [phrase taken from A Clockwork Orange], divorced their respective spouses, Mark literally and financially abandoned his wife and 5 kids, and married Eliz in 1961.
Mark claimed to be the "next messenger" for the older I AM teachings and combined that with the Agni Yoga teachings of Nicholas and Helena Roerich [they were maverick Theosophists from Russia and did translate Blavatsky's "Secret Doctrine" into Russian before 1920--no mean feat!] Mark was part of an obscure group called The Bridge to Freedom, an I AM offshoot in the 1950s.
The leader/channeler of Bridge, Geraldine Innocenti, committed suicide @ 1957 and Mark took over most of her small band of devotees, renaming the cult Lighthouse of Freedom, later "Summit Lighthouse."
AY was my main spiritual thing for 7 years [1975-82] and it got me caught up in CUT. [here's a Latvian scholar's report on Roerich and the current AY influence in Russia that I reviewed for a journal:
Mark Prophet [his real name] died of heart attack in 1973 and ECP took over the cult and it thrived under her leadership from several thousand devotees in 1973 to maybe 15-25,000 by 1985.
I went to 3 major CUT conferences from 1979-1980.
You may want to look at these 3 articles I wrote for more info.
Hope this helps.
Let me know if you have more questions....
Joe & G2G,
I had quite a library of ECP books. I went through a "phase" in the early 90's, when I'd be on my way to an RSE event, with several ECP books in my bags.
It makes me laugh, because I was never "loyal" to RSE, despite the big guy/gal telling students that if they were "still seekers" (which meant were seeing other teacher/gurus), then he did not want them in his/her audience.
Awww, shucks. A jealous and territorial Goddy.
I have to say, I enjoyed reading those books that ECP "channeled". The irony is that I thought of myself as not caring to read fiction.
.......rolling eyes at self.....
Live and learn....and then.......LIVE !
Joe, Aren't you glad you don't have to do decrees all morning, noon and night anymore?
Back when Mark & Lizzy were in CO Spgs, I visited the holy L.T. mansion by the BroAdmoor many times. Later my brother taught school there, and I felt guilty for having introduced him to the books, decrees, K.O.F. and the whole channeling, ascended masters. But heh, in the backdrop of the rockies (before Malibu and MT) when all the people turned their investments, homes, savings into gold (sound familiar???) it started getting too wierd. Still, I have the whole library and tapes along with Rland tapes & cape, blinders and pillow, haha!
There really were many similarities. I wrote a long reply earlier this week comparing the two, but for whatever reason my posts/replies did not attach or were blocked. Maybe I used a slang word? I don't know.
When Mark 'died' it was announced that he Ascended and became "Lanello" and of course did it atop Pikes Peak. This type of thing keeps happening in groups, and new-age cults, skools, over and over.
Joe, did you ever go into the big UG in Montana? Did you work on the organic farms, cattle in Livingston-land?
Thanks for your sharing, it brought back a lot of memories Í'd either forgotten, sublimated, or partitioned off...
Like many I believe read these sites, there is much to share and help those who are looking for alternative answers to the entertainments they've paid for in more ways than one... Thanks for your help.
See&E said, "I wrote a long reply earlier this week comparing the two, but for whatever reason my posts/replies did not attach or were blocked. Maybe I used a slang word? I don't know."
Using a slang word won't stop the post from going through. It will possibly replace the word with asterisks, which is part of the software for this forum.
What might prove helpful, especially if you're putting the time into a lengthy post, is to type it up in Word. Then, cut and paste it into the EMF message and "post". You'll see if it goes through, and if for some reason it doesn't, you'll still have a copy and you can try again later.
"When Mark 'died' [Liz] announced that he ascended and became "Lanello" and of course did it atop Pikes Peak. This type of thing keeps happening in groups, and new-age cults, skools, over and over."
Did JZ or as Ramtha ever proclaim ascension for any RSE members after they died? This was a common occurance in both the old I AM and CUT.
Mark Prophet died [according to the inner circle CUT skuttlebutt] while he was having his manly way with the Mother of the Universe--Lizzy. Right on, Mark---you da man!
Ahem, in any case, soon after the heart attack "Mother" proclaimed that Mark ascended and his ascended name was Lanello, a combine of his prior lives as LANcelot and H W LongfELLOw! Wasn't she clever
Liz proceeded to channel intermittent messages from Lanello for years.
I can imagine Mark's spook in agitation saying, "Yo B&%#h, that's f*****g all wrong." By all accounts, the two of them argued regularly about doctrine and what the "masters" really said,...and they did not spare the four letter words.
Goes to show what happens when you have two kooks in the metaphysical kitchen.
"Joe, did you ever go into the big UG in Montana? Did you work on the organic farms, cattle in Livingston-land?"
Big UG is right--the size of a football stadium built to hold 2,000 for a year! By mid to late 1990s it was vermin infested and the food stuffs practically useless.
No, never was in their big UG or any of them. They had several smaller ones too. I quit the CUT in 1980, 5-6 years before they moved to Montana and 10 before they finished the UGs.
I did exit counsel one of the architects just before he left to work on it in 1987 and in 1988 I exited the head of the huge greenhouse of the CUT farm that grew supplies/preserves for it. Both interventions were via surprise but wholly non-coercive meetings with family present and both took four to five 15-hour days for me to talk them out of it. But they filled me on of all the "secret" plans prior to fruition.
In 1990 I did visit the CUT Ranch area in MO and was keynote speaker at two talks in Gardner at a church and in Livingston at the city hall to packed houses. CUT leaders showed up to counter me then too. The LARSE meetings were tame compared to what I encountered there!
The Ramtha version of ascension is some pseudoscienctific explanation about how we are all, at the cellular level, light. Each cell, is entrapped light. So, the goal is to raise your consciousness to such a high, fast vibratory rate, that each cell in one's body would be vibrating so fast it would go right beyond the speed of light :::POOF:::
He likenened it to spontaneous combustion. The innuendo, as I understood it, was that those who combusted, really were ascending.
So, if we do the Great Work, and get out of entrapment of our emotional bodies, into the fourth seal and above, we'll ascend. To be forever with the Old Goat.
Ramtha said he ascended WITH his physical body. He rose up into the air, floating, as he became brighter and brighter, and lighter and lighter, until...poof...he was gone ! The slow son of a gun took 35,000 years to come back and find US, his people.
That's hysterical about Mark/Lizzybabe fighting about what the teachings were. It just figures. Too bad JZ wasn't there. It would have been fun to watch them all duke it out over who's version of ascension is the right one.
I also read the green hardcover I AM books. Not all of them, but more than I care to admit. I was sitting in an audience once, reading the book, as "Ramtha" was pacing the floor, talking. I was sitting right next to an aisle, and I probably stood out like a sore thumb, because my eyes were on my book, not Raaaaamtha. I had a bee in my bonnet over something, so I tuned him out. Until, that is, he started talking about the book I was reading. Guess JZ didn't like the competition. She obviously recognized the book !
I should proofread first.
pseudoscienctific = pseudoscientific