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I know about John Dee, and I know about Alistair Crowley...
But, then, I know about Krishna, Buddha, the Dalai Lama, and they differ, more than they resemble each other.
What I meant was, John Dee was someone long ago, who influenced the Theosophists, and he was probably a charlatan, who practiced crystal gazing, gave prognostications, and such, was a noted astrologer, but he was still restricted in his behaviour by the mores of Elizabethan culture, and not free to indulge himself in every respect, for fear of losing the favour of his royal patroness.
In a sense we could say that Alistair Crowley was one of the fathers of Neo-Paganism. But, they differed widely in their World views, their ethics, their characters and inclinations.
And, I don't see a strong connection between their ideas and Ramthink, unless you would throw all those who believe in ESP, or Ascended Masters, into the same pit, and burn them all as witches...Perhaps you are saying that part of Ramthink is adopted from Crowley?
My thought was, that Alistair Crowley would have abhored JZ/R.
And, while he was of questionable character and ethics, what he meant by "Do what thou wilt should be the whole of the law" (to which that all important "and though harm none" has been added by modern practitioners of Wicca)was that a truly evolved spiritual being would not have a will that was contrary to Divine will or compassion.
I see him as brilliant, and quite mad in the end. And I would not have wanted to hang out with him, he was not particularly respectful towards his women friends, even if he supposedly worshipped the 'feminine principle'.
Lost In Space...
Crowley was totally misinterpreted.
Maybe....by some.... it doesn't matter...
Crowley practiced THE ENOCHIAN CALLS from Dee's works.
This influenced further generations of Thought....No Doubt.
Judi may be a joker but let me tell you ALL something....
SHE IS GOING TO INFLUENCE THE FUTURE!
THAT WILL BE A FACT.
The numbers are there and those numbers are confused and they have money to throw away and Judi know this.
This game has been going on for a long time.
Research my Star List.
But, those numbers will have to contend with the growing numbers of those dissafected from, or injured by, RSE.
Those numbers pale in the big scope of injustice in the world.
The Church has branded much more.
I choose to be a loner.
Loners never get caught.
I prefer to engage life, win or lose.
But I am not as aprehensive about the future as you seem to be.
I was a dunce at physics in school. But this I got - for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Works, really, wherever you take it.
And, strange as it may seem, most of the people in the large and diverse Canadian city where I live have never heard of Ramtha, and most would not be altered or moved if they did. There is to be an event here this year. Not anticipating much impact on my daily life. A few more "drunk metrosexuals" (Tyger's term) will make little difference in the grand scheme of things.
No matter what JZ/R says or does, the sun will keep rising and setting, here and in Yelm.
And not living my life in any aprehension of grey lizard men or 'dark' aliens trying to get at me.
And people who are busy taking courses, doing disciplines, practicing all that stuff, and focusing on trying to manifest things, don't scare me as much as maybe you think they should.
And, you mean, those 'numbers' USED to have money, right?
"And, while he was of questionable character and ethics, what he meant by "Do what thou wilt should be the whole of the law" (to which that all important "and though harm none" has been added by modern practitioners of Wicca)was that a truly evolved spiritual being would not have a will that was contrary to Divine will or compassion.
Yes, Ramthimher did say a number of times that a truly evolved being, evolved at least to the level of the fourth seal (heart chakra), would have no desire to do harm to anyone. They wouldn't want to, need to, and who would, given the conditions, refuse to, taking harm upon themselves first.
my mother always told me (a number of Mommisms) to watch people's actions, not just listen to their words.
Ramthimher didn't follow his/her own adage, which could then be argued is "proof" that he's demonic if he exists. He inflicted emotional, physical, psychological and spiritual harm to many. As a matter of fact, in an online video event in 2006, I heard him say, myself, "I have caused a lot of trouble here."
Ya think !?
Must be because he's such a highly evolved, ascended master, God-realized being. Who else would hit people, talk VULGAR talk in front of children for hours on end, teach children about debased human sexuality for hours on end, etc, etc....I've made my point.
Also, as to the Church, if you mean the Christian Church, it is losing members...Churches here are consolidating faster than most megacorporations.
Perhaps in time, all denominations will consolidated into one big melting pot...isn't that in the Book of Revelation?
It may sound arrogant, but I have my own religion. Guess that makes me a loner too. I choose what speaks to me from a number of different faiths. I seek no converts. Not trying to convince anyone. Respect other peoples' rights to their own beliefs. Nobody is pushing or pulling at me to join them, either. (almost nobody, I have Atheist friends who just won't give up on me)
I enjoy researching many faiths...will look up the people on your list.
But the US is still a free country. And, if you empower any group by letting it cause you to fear, they win.
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." Winston Churchill.
Whatchamacallit...yes, I see your point.
Would you say, though, that once removed from the mess RSE/Ramthink appears to be, people should live in fear/expect runners/arm themselves against possible invasion?
And, would you lump everybody who has any similar idea whatsoever together?
LIS asked, "Would you say, though, that once removed from the mess RSE/Ramthink appears to be, people should live in fear/expect runners/arm themselves against possible invasion?
And, would you lump everybody who has any similar idea whatsoever together?"
LIS, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
MAYBE this answers your question; I understand that after leaving a place like RSE, it's a common reaction for people to have a lot of fear of retaliation ... or retribution. In the case of RSE, I know folks who are afraid Ramtha would "get them". Bring them down. I think it's a human response to the indoctrination, and the human-ness of "What if?"
Runners ? Coincidences in our lives (or whatever you want to call that) can be from a number of sources, based on one's belief. From Ramtha ? Some ex-students still believe in Ramtha. For them, they answer would be yes, I would assume.
But is it realistic ? I don't think so. I was directly and personally threatened by "Ramtha", a few times. It ticked me off more than scared me. But, it did scare me. Being the stubborn mule that I am capable of being at times, I forced myself to go do exactly what I was threatened about.
Guess what ?
Here I am. Doin' fine. The old goat is powerless over me.
I have heard this same type of story from quite a few other people, too.
Personally, I think there is a level of personal growth where it no longer matters if Ramtha exists, ever existed, or was a total farce. Why? FOR MYSELF, as simplistic as this may sound, I just believe in God. If Ramtha exists/ed/whatever, his actions sure bear out he's a very human-like, unevolved being, whose actions are frequently below the "fourth seal", as they say.
What matters to ME, is my own relationship with God. For ME, that's very personal and requires NO human intermediary, building, or channeled one.
What about stockpiling for the Days to Come, etc ? Fear ? David and I have had many, many private chats about this and I'm glad YOU brought it up. It has different faces. He has said to me so many times, "We all need to talk out our fears." Why does he say this ? BEcause it IS a theme on this forum. It has been since it was started. It IS an issue.
And now, I have to go...my kids want to play a card game.
LIS, is that even what you were getting at ?
No one talks about their "Scamtha Fears" here? You must be joking...
Well, here, let me be the first one. I'll start.
I AM deathly afraid that my ex-wife will learn of Scamtha's teachings, eat a case of Twinkies, and live forever.
I AM living in fear that Scamsters will get so upset with the ridicule of their "God" that they will take to the streets of Yelm and drown everyone in a tidal wave of red wine.
I AM in mortal terror that Scamtha will send a 4-year-old after me to fry my brain with a "Blue Body Mind Bolt".
I AM terrified that Greg Simmons may pass gas on my roses and kill them for all eternity.
I AM scared out of my wits at the thought of "Sir Robert" falling on me and not being able to get up.
I AM often troubled by dreams (nightmares?) about a twinkie-sized JZ who's botox injections expand and explode all over the inside of my refrigerator....or maybe that was just that can of soda that exploded.
I AM scared to death that James Flick will come out of the closet and start hitting on my dog. (the dog's scared too...)
I AM afraid for my very life that Scamtha will convert the boogie-man who lives underneath my bed, and he'll finally "get me" while I sleep.
Wow!!! Hey, man....who made these brownies anyway. They're pretty good, man!!!
So far, read about (apart from the aforementioned and Timothy Leary) Ken Kesey.
Nothing bothered me until I got to the part about experimenting with hapless psych patients through LSD, and other psychoactive drugs...
But, I note that it was a GOVERNMENT program, MKULTRA, of which he was only a tool. Still, that whole idea is vastly disturbing and outrages me, for one.
I read once, in a Time Life Book of the Year for the year of my birth, that MKULTRA extended their experimentation to new borns...in major Eastern U.S. cities - and I was born in a major Eastern U.S. city.
Maybe that's why I'm so weird.
On to the next 'star'.
Not putting anyone who is afraid down.
Just saying that fearfullness is something to be outgrown, something that time will show is unfounded, as has been your own experience.
But I felt that Wolfman's comment, that JZ/R will influence the future, was liable to foster such fear.
And, also, not claiming that I myself have no fear. I just do my level best to ensure that my fears do not run or ruin my life.
Yes, I have seen the Top Secret files and can assure you that MKULTRA invested millions into turning you personally into an ex-Ramster. They did it for the, uh, ...interstellar credits. Yeah, that's it....interstellar credits.
See, when you turn 62, MKULTRA can cash your DNA in to the hermaphrodite aliens from Epsilon Crapola for millions in interstallar credits and with that purchase a lifetime supply of Twinkies, blue algae, white powder....oh wait, nevermind the white powder...and blue gummy bears so that they can live forever and keep harvesting ex-Ramster DNA.
Pretty neato, huh??!!!
Tyger...HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
"If only he had used his stunning wit for niceness, instead of evil" - Maxwell Smart - "Get Smart"
And, I was completely serious - I did read that in a Time Life Book of the Year for the year of my birth, though I don't remember if MKULTRA was named specifically.
And, I wasn't taking it personally, or stating a belief that I was specifically targeted.
Of course, if Time made Joseph Stalin man of the year in any given year, we have to consider the source.
Don't know why you make me think of this, Tyger -
Whenever a regiment is sent into battle; whenever a skyscrapper is built; those in charge have a concept of "acceptable" losses. I completely repudiate that concept.
I am not an ex-Ramster. I was never at the school.
I did explore the possibility of becoming a Ramster. I was strongly influenced to do so by a Ramster I was/am fond of. Found this board first, 'blessed be'.
I see....and stand corrected. I figured you were an "ex-Ramster" like most of us here.
As to the attrition concept....I wasn't responsible for that...your brain did that all on it's own.
Attrition? Or Allursion?
Anyway, by poking fun at me because I believe that MKULTRA existed, since I have read from a number of divergent sources that it did, you minimize the horribleness of people who are helpless being experimented on. They also did similar expermiments on U.S. Army privates, FYI. Ever a private, Tyger? And on each other..."Here's your coffee, Bob. SURPRISE!!!!"
It is a wonder I don't start ranting about governments preying on their citizens and eating their own young.
And do you actually believe the U.S. Government to be incapable of such action?
Au contraire, mes ami. I was merely writing a small humorous piece as a riposte. MKULTRA did indeed exist, but it was not responsible for any of the garbage that popular New Age lore attributes to it.
As far as experimentation on US soldiers goes,...yes, it was practiced and done in the 1940-1964 era....but there is very little evidence of it after that.
I served for three years aboard the US Navy's official "test vehicle" for new technologies, and I can tell you that there is nothing that would even hint at what you suggest. Furthermore: Having grown up and personally experienced my own father's occupation....I find the notions absurd.
MKULTRA was about one thing and one thing only...recovering ET crashes and storing recovered material...hopefully studying it, but that hasn't worked out so well. That's all there is, buddy. Trust me on this one.
Truth. It sets you free.
Please go to this link, and read all about it...from a Senate Committee hearing conducted in 1977.
Or to save you time, read this quote:
The research and development program, and particularly the covert testing programs, resulted in massive abridgments of the rights of American citizens, sometimes with tragic consequences The deaths of two Americans [3a] can be attributed to these programs; other participants in the testing programs may still suffer from the residual effects. While some controlled testing of these substances might be defended, the nature of the tests, their scale, and the fact that they were continued for years after the danger of surreptitious administration of LSD to unwitting individuals was known, demonstrate a fundamental disregard for the value of human life.
In all fairness, the Committee found that most of the Government didn't know what was going on, most of the CIA didn't know about it, and most of those in the CIA who knew about it did not know about, and could not foresee or control, the worst of it.
Small wonder that you did not know about it.
Sounds like what they do at "The Ranch".
Well, it was the genesis and originating spirit for "mind control techniques"...if you read further, you discover that it was an attempt to understand such techniques, purportedly practiced in Russia and Asia, and possibly learn how to counter them, or use them to fight "the enemy".
Having read almost everything on that link, I recommend that former (or current, if interested) RSE students read about the full array of experiments that were conducted.
How to hypnotize, drug into submission, "reprogramm", induce mental illness, cause publicly humiliating and discrediting behaviour in normally sane subjects.
I just finished reading a) how to induce a concussion using short sound blasts at significant frequencies (bellowing spiritual leader on stage springs to mind)and also, how to counter attempts at inducing concussion by means of a temporary gas bubble introduced into the head.
Really, for a pacifist like me, this is all so very very chilling.
Me thinks you were fed to many brownies at frog man school and flunk out of the REAL test.
HA! HA ! HA!