Magpi,

"If we give our power away to the opinion of others we have dropped the ball. That includes science (man made also) All of us have our own trajectory/journey. Isn't it what life is about?
I cant prove (and you cant either) what YOUR experience has been. Nor can I prove what I have experienced...you cant either. Does that mean it isn't "real"? The "proof" is the experience. Not what cience or anyone else has to say about it. And, I wouldn't cheapen myself, degrade my experience by sharing it."


Firstly, I think the whole idea of using the expression "giving our power away" Is a bit of an overgeneralization as well as making what you are trying to say a bit difficult to understand.

It appears to me that you are trying to say that listening to the opinions of others, be it about their own or about your own personal experience has lost its worth (dropped the ball). If you use your critical thinking you might also change you perspective.

There are countless things that one does not have to experience for themselves as well as much value in listening to the opinions of others [PROVIDED WE HAVE THE MEANS AND ABILITY TO EXAMINE THIER OPINIONS]

Their is proof to experience, at the very least proof of the things that effect ones perceptions of experiences and if they are real or not.

take a drunk driver. They get behing the wheel under the influence. Their experience is that they can drive fine, their ability is not impaired in anyway, in fact, they are feeling great! that is their experience. Is it true?? Well yes, perhaps it is true that is how they feel because their perception has been altered by the alcohol, but when the car goes out of their control and they land on the side of the road, airbag deployed (hopefully) and the front end of their car wrapped around a tree the reality of what they were feeling literally hits them in the face!

After an experience with a group such as RSE there is often a feeling of "what is real?' That can be a normal part of the recovery process. Learning how to go about descerning again can be the gift that keeps on giving.

Journeythruramthaland, I dont consider a statement "giving our our power away" a generalization. Dropping the ball is dropping the ball Why are we all on this web? To hear ourself talk? I have better things to do.
Forgive me,be it arrogance or ignorance but I believe we all have something to offer. Not only to ourselves but to others.
If we all believed in ourselves so much why did we go to RSE?

Hi Magpi,

I agree with you that we al have something to offer each other, that includes opinions. I was commenting on what appeared to be an equating of listening and valuing others opinions as "dropping the ball" in your previous post. Nothing personal, just wanted to know if that was how you really meant that and if so, why.

Journeythruramthaland,
With all due respect. My comment wasn't meant as an insult...but rather a fact. Why did we go to RSE? "Dropping the ball" is about having qualms..not quite sure. But, being willing to listen anyway. That's what I meant.

JTRL, Magpie:
What I understood the expression "giving your power away" to mean was;
RSE supposedly teaches SELF-mastery...you are a God.
Then, you are told that an Ascended Master is required to guide you/instruct you/tell you what to do - and if you buy into the whole JZ/R knows best, then you are giving your power away.
Far from self-mastery, you proceed to learn obedience, submissiveness, and fear-induced dependence.

Lost,

I get what you are saying. I just personally dislike the expression. I mean, if someone said they gave thier money away, you could ask how much, when I hear that statement I always want to ask, how much power did you have how do you measure it and how is it renewed. Yet I understand the way in which it is used.

In any case, I firmly believe that when someone is conned, they are persuaded, cajolled, tricked, misled, and deceived in such a way that I do not consider that they have "given" anything away. It has been removed from them or a situation created where they think that it is ok to trust the con artist or artists.

So, when I hear someone say "they gave their power away" with regards to something like RSE (not that it can't happen in some cases) i would say for the most part, it was stolen from them.

I hear you JTRL.
But it's not actual, forcible theft. JZ would get nowhere, and have nothing, if the students did not "buy" what she is selling.
I know people are being conned. But the con is done with permission and active participation, not the same as a smash and grab in a dark alley. And the con has extended its tentacles far and wide, around the world, in fact.
I don't think RSE students are more gullible than the rest of us. As I stated on another post I think we are all vulnerable.
It's especially deplorable to me (an outsider), when I consider that it is people's higher natures that are used against them. I don't think greedy, self- serving people would give JZ the time of day (though I expect some of the teachers may be portrayed in that light)- no, it is people who want to make a difference, become enlightened, become Christs, and share the love, or save the World, that are being conned.

journeythruramthaland,
How bout if I define "giving our power away" as believing in something that isn't MUTUALLY empowering? No offense intended.

lost in space,
yep-well said.

Hey gang, greedy self serving Leemar here. Astro is next to me doing year end inventory on his Pepperoni. You have to have those records in order come tax time. Right?

Hey I wouldn't give JZ the time of day, but, I would sell it to her.

Anyone see a bit of narcissism in Lost's last post,

Lost wrote:

I don't think greedy, self- serving people would give JZ the time of day (though I expect some of the teachers may be portrayed in that light)- no, it is people who want to make a difference, become enlightened, become Christs, and share the love, or save the World, that are being conned.

If RSE is what you're predisposed to - I'd prefer to be described as greedy and self serving.

Are you really suggesting that people go see JZ Knight because they think they will be able to save the world. Wow amazing lack of common sense.

I'm sorry no matter how large a pitty pot I sit on I cannot get myself to the point where I can accept the excuses I am hearing for engagement with this cult other than foolishness.

There was a video clip around a few years ago with JZ riding around on a horse dressed like something out of Robin Hood. I think she was waving a sword and they were advertising some event at the school. Seriously what kind of mind says "Gee Whiz that is cool I need that right now!"? The whole premise of the program is so lame.

What I keep hearing out of this group is that I (Leemar here - greedy and self serving Leemar) need to approach current, leaving, former RSE members with padded gloves.

Let' suppose it goes like this:

Christy: Hey guess what Leemar, I quit going to the school and now I have my own crystal shop, and three websites selling magic fairy dust, except we really don't sell any magic fairy dust we just get people to sign up to start their own website to sell magic fairy dust and they may or maynot sell magic fairy dust but they can sell their own websites so someone else can sell magic fairy dust, so in the long run I don't think there will be much money in magic fairy dust because there will be so many websites selling the junk that nobody will pay for it. Besides it really isn't magic fairy dust. It's baking soda. But I learned at the school if you stare at that baking soda long enough it will manifest magic fairy dust. That's the secret, I can turn baking soda into magic fairy dust and the only ones that can do that are the the ones that found the void. So I am way on top of this one. How cool is that!?

Hey Leemar, guess what else is new, I went to this cool Tony Robbins thing and I met all these really nice happy people that smile all the time and they all thought I was a real special entity. They so way remind me of this guy from the school named Greg. And guess what, this guy Greg, he said I would really master Magic Fairy Dust if I take this course at BURKLYN BUSINESS COLLEGE on Magic Fairy Dust sales. If I tell them Greg from Yelm sent me, he said they would be really sweet and nice to me and I, for sure, know that I will get way more from that than the tuition cost. I so love it when people tell me how sweet and nice I am, and smart and how supportive and encouraging I am of everything they try no matter how haywire it sounds. I just LOVE it that people love me as much as I love myself.

Anyway Leemar about BURKLYN, this is way cool, hey don't interrupt me, you know I learned all of these special things at the school, I can't tell you what they are because it's a secret school with secret teachings and the only people that go to this kind of school are ones like me that want to be loved and save the world and I know you Leemar, you are more into, well, Leemar and that just doesn't cut it in my reality. But anyway BBC offers this way cool program, Greg told me about it and he made it is so simple. I just give him my credit card number or four ounces of gold (preferably gold cuz we're a bit off the grid if ya know what I mean) and he'll sign me up for it and I can remote view the class. Whoa is that cool or what? No high speed internet required, no paperwork, no password, nothing. I can just sit in my trailer and RV the whole thing. I knew RSE would pay off.

Leemar: Hey Christy, can I ask you a question?

Christy: Hang on Leemar, I haven't talked to you in what 7 or 8 years. Wait till you hear this. I had this way bad infected ingrown toenail. I mean red and puss filled and couldn't wear a shoe or hardly walk so I did this thing, I can't tell you the details cuz they are secret, but I focused on my infected, puss filled ingrown toenail for, I don't know, three weeks and I cured it all by focusing on it. Pretty cool huh? After I cured it I put this stuff called Neosporin on it and I started playing badminton in four days. RSE is soooo amazing and it has made me so amazing that I amaze myself. What do you think Leemar?

Leemar: Well Christy, there are a couple of things I need to discuss with you.

Christy: Oh don't worry Leemar I have already discussed them with you, you just don't know it because I learned this really neat discipline at RSE and you would need to master quantum physics to understand what I am talking about and I know that all you know how to do is computerize and automate factories and put people out of work and hey that is so beyond my truth and anyway you would never be able to master quantum physics like I have. I mean think about it, if you hadn't automated all those factories, just think about how many more jobs would have been sent overseas where they work for magic fairy dust, and by the way just think about how all that time you spent automating Keebler and General Mills, and Keebler and Merk cut into my Magic Fairy Dust business model because they still make their stuff here and employ a bunch of engineers and people with lofty sounding degrees instead of sending these jobs overseas where I could have sold a bunch of Magic Fairy Dust so they could get paid. Leemar, you wronged me....

Leemar: Huh?

Christy: Ya that's wrong Leemar. You wronged me. All you know is engineering and construction stuff. You are so base and you act like you understand physics. All you know is gravity, and moment and inertia and kinetics and centrifugal stuff like that. Got it!

Leemar: Wow, Christy, maybe you should see about working at Ferme Lab? You know they...

Christy: Don't interrupt me Leemar. Ferme Lab, shmermee lab. RSE is so...ooo way beyond that. Those guys at Hanford and MIT and JPL and Savanah River, they have no idea what knowledge I have. That's why RSE is sooooo cool. It is so exclusive and it makes me even more special than I already new I was.

Leemar: OK

Christy: So, Leemar, what is it you wanted to know?

Leemar: Never mind Christy, I GOT IT?





Anyone see

Narcisim?
I state I did not join the school...but I also say I don't think that people who join the school are a different species from me, or you.
I bet you, Leemar, that if you write here long enough, some unscrupulous creep could figure out how to push all of your buttons, too.
"But, but, I'm a scientist", you would say, "immune to such chicanery"...
Know what?
Practicing forgiveness is good for you...not because it makes you holier, not for the sake of the person or persons you forgive, but for your own sake, because it creates space and frees up energy within for better things.

Not sure who wrote this, but it is something I firmly believe in, and live by.
You need never seek revenge. Life does it for you.

By the way, I did not call YOU greedy, or call you anything at all...I was speaking generally. Nor did I suggest that all people who do not join the school are that.

No, some unscrupulous creep cannot push my buttons because I have no buttons I am free energy, I am the wind, I am RASTRO. Leemar is on the couch watching a ballgame.

Woof.

PS Don't forget Leemar did start the FACTNET thread on RSE - Can he have a little credit for bringing a little more attention to this. He does know a bit about this deal and the mindset of the followers and he really would like to hear some people come forward and say hey I really seriously screwed the pooch on this one.

Very well, I give you credit. You have done a good thing. You also show signs of having a sense of humour.
But why must former students appologize for your Sister's crimes?
What part of "ex" in "ex"-student do you not get?
Is it the "e"? is it the "x"?
They already feel some combination of:
ripped off; hurt; betrayed; indignant; disgusted; raped; tormented; destroyed; alienated; bereft of their social lives; abandoned by people they thought were friends.
Why would you add to that?
And what you share with them is a wish to see justice done.
But would it be justice to inflict further harm on ex-students, or current students, for that matter?

LEEMAR;

LMMFAO!!!!! Your "Christy" and "LEEMAR" dialogue is priceless!!!!

LOLOLOL!!!! I laughed till I cried because THAT IS EXACTLY THE WAY THEY REASON AND TALK!!!!

Or talk over whatever normalcy presents itself...

Dude....that was awesome!!!! Give me more.

GIVE ME MORE!!!!

lost and jtrl, the "give your power away" comment is all inclusive. effects every area of a persons life. meaning that how often do we dress for others (as an example) because THEY say something looks good on us. even though we dont think so but wear it anyway? in other words conforming to anothers expectations.
duped-yea. and like it or not all of us empowered hampton. a monster out of control.

magpi,
Happy new year!

"lost and jtrl, the "give your power away" comment is all inclusive. effects every area of a persons life. meaning that how often do we dress for others (as an example) because THEY say something looks good on us. even though we dont think so but wear it anyway? in other words conforming to anothers expectations."

While I do not dress for others (I don't dress) It sounds to me like if you are listening to those saying something looks good on you and wear what they suggest, I would think that there is a fair amount of trust there, especially if you did not percieve what they were saying as the truth.

Again, for me the "give your power away" in the example you gave smacks of cult speak. In otherwords, Someone has paid someone else a compliment, simple as that. It starts to get convuluted only when it turns into a giving your power away thing. However, I do agree and usualy make a point of giving a compliment like that a bit of another way.

I say "Gee, you really make that look great"

JTRL,
I am not familiar with the seemingly shared understanding of verbage on emf. It's new to me. "Cult speak" isn't familiar to me. Keep in mind that I have not had contact with rse followers or ex followers.
Happy New year

Check the links offered on this page, all about cults.
Or, you could maybe understand "clique speak", "shop talk".
I think that it's clear, to me at least, that those who have spent time at the ranch and are now here are pointing to a manner of communication adopted by many at the ranch. The dialogue by Leemar shows examples of what could be perceived as 'cult speak', showing a mindset, and a vocabulary, borrowed from JZ.
And, most people here would readily describe RSE as a cult. I sometimes wonder what distinguishes a cult from some other spiritual and social groups, but that's just me.

LIS said, "I think that it's clear, to me at least, that those who have spent time at the ranch and are now here are pointing to a manner of communication adopted by many at the ranch."

Yes, and this is true of most if not all, cults. They have their own language, loaded with "trigger" words. It serves to divide "them and us" in one's mind.

It's easy to make a point when using RSE-speak, such as "Ramtha sending a runner", because even though the person doesn't accept it as real/valid, the communication is clear about what they mean.

whatcha and lost,
thanks for the clarification. "trigger words"? That push buttons? It isn't my intention to push buttons. what "givivng my power away" means to me is deeply rooted in other experiences.
hey, why not a dictionary on "cult speak? for the sake of communication it would be helpful to new comers.
lost..i agree w/you on the what's the difference aspect. my thought exactly. perhaps we use the word "cult" casually? lt seems to me that EVERY group has their own "group speak" (lingo). and, in every group beit church or a profession or sports could be considered a cult. people are expected to conform to a specific thinking. that separates them from others. it's an identity thing.

lost, you hit the nail on the head. and, it isnt "just you". it's my question precisely.
where does the word "cult"ure come from? the identity of a group? i'm serious.
i've been reading (a lot) on line about various groups, "cults". it seems to me...

lost, whatcha, "giving ones power away" means giving ones mind and individuality away.
how many people practice religion..but have never studied a bible? how many see a new product advertised and run out and get it? and, if we dont must be something wrong w/us? if we dont have blue eyes and blond hair (w/dark roots showing)? or, if we are too fat..or thin. dont live in the "right" area..know the right people..go to the rigt places...on and on and on. sounds like a Cult to me! Is it fair to say that a "cult" is anything that creates and presents a "model of perfection" and expects absulute conformity and obedience?

ever been involved w/a church or business that doesn"t think they're right or the best? how bout various branches of the military? in everything there's an "us and them". ever been around cops? all of the above (and more) is about POWER! ego-image-identity supported by NUMBERS. $ amounts and volume of recruits/acceptance.
did anyone catch what hampton said on Larry Live? "WE have the best" in terms of Her business and product. the product being? A dream? self/God realized? enlightenment?
by the way, anyone have a definition for "enlightenment"? in light of ther peoples problems and sex life?

I know of a civic organization (well established for many years, and well known), that speaks about adults working with youth on assorted projects. They refer to "empowering" the youth. There are a few other references to types of "power", that one could compare to "new age" terminology. I don't think that's the intent at all, though.

To me, it's just about having a certain level of independence, decision making ability, feeling involved as an active contributor - like that.

As for "trigger words" (music, phrases, etc) as they are connected to cults or controlling or negative experiences, they can be so many things, imo. Scientology has their own "loaded language", as does RSE, etc.

But, of course, the words are not loaded with any emotion unless or until WE ascribe the meaning TO them. I guess it would be fair to say that to varying degrees, redefining those meanings and emotions are one of the "after the cult/coercive group/high demand group/whatever name you want to use", is part of the recovery process.

In Life Skills, empowerment means that you encourage and instruct people in the process of making their own choices, addresssing their own problems or challenges, give them problem solving and communication skills, tools that will help them once they leave the group (and you get to leave after 16 weeks...have to, part of the process).
But, shocking as it was to me, that resembles some of the teachings at the ranch. Gary Zukov in the Seat of the Soul (recommended reading at the ranch) says that "love is the only power".
Not having been to the ranch, and only knowing what I do know of it from people on this website and the RSE web page, gotta say, in theory, it does not sound all bad, but in practice, based on yours and others' experiences there, shared here, while there may be some positive things to be learned there, it sucks, because it turns out to be disempowering.

lost, that's the "bait and switch" at rse. the confusion. it started out as loving and encouraging..uplifting. customers were told NOT to follow anyone but their own god. then it changed to "R" is greater than us and knows how to teach us. you dont see hampton on King live or any other interview presenting "R" sloshed and foul? there's two different messages.

Magpi,

"then it changed to "R" is greater than us and knows how to teach us. you dont see hampton on King live or any other interview presenting "R" sloshed and foul? there's two different messages."

How right you are! If you noticed, thier was never the mention of r except in the name of the school. It was all about her.

YEP! says it all.