By all means call him out. Don't let him engage in Ramtha speak. Make him conduct himself on your terms.
Push him to explain himself. What do you have to lose? Absolutely nothing and you have everything to gain and so does he.

chances are many can say the same. did he teach you the disciplines? your mom in rse?

"disciplines" = Ramtha-speak for techniques used at the funny farm designed to sublimate the individuals own personality and replace it with JZ's Walt Disney character.

"lofty thought" = Ramtha-speak for what your own thoughts are being replaced with.

"R*O*B*O*T" = Tyger-speak acronym for Ramtha Ordained Blowhards Onboard Train (....from Hell)

Zeike,

Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. Fathers (Mothers), Parents of all kinds; Husbands & Wives (Spouses), do a lot of things in this world which may not make any sense in retrospect. It would be a stretch, and may or may not be deserved, to try to suggest some purpose or meaning for anyone's actions in life choices. At the best, maybe due to his belief and acceptance of something he (again) believed to be true, he was having you help him build a UG or haul dirt to protect you from pending disaster he bought into to. I know that is a stretch, but the only perspective I can offer is he was reacting (which was indeed taking action) to something he was trying to minimize or avoid harm or worse to his family. For what it is worth to you, your Father was not alone. A majority of 'students'who had invested time, money, and been believing what they were told, WOULD have delivered safety, sovereignty (to use the word being preached) and ironically, many cons, schemes, or dreams to bring abundance, prosperity, and for many of the working class there (folkies), it would have been their first chance to have any real money, or 'riches' or wealth.

In the so-called 'real world' of having to work for a living through finding a job/employer, benefits for yourself, spouse and family, and sooner or later figuring out that it's going to be a long-haul of a lifetime of saving up for, or paying on mortgages, loans, car loans, bills, and on and on... the temptation and the allure of the snake oil of Truth, in the name of someone who had the answers, snagged people by at least the thousands, if not tens of thousands.

As a result, as you may gather on this website, it has effected and affected the immediate family members, friends, in a variety of ways.

There are posts on this site that talk about a parents regret about having spent the time, vacation time, money and not travelling with their (Son) (daughter) (family) (spouse) and having a life.

I am hoping that your Father was and is still loved by you, and thankfully you have forgiven him (or will in time) for his choices.

Some children live under all manner of belief systems, addictive behaviors (alcoholism, drugs, gambling, emotional/physical abuse) and many more have the 'holier than thou' strict parents, restrictions, and forced to attend, be part of the family religion, church activities and wait til they are 18 or on their own to finally have the freedom to believe and express their own religious, political, musical tastes, or even experience sexuality of any kind.

I suppose it can be said, if we look at the cycle of life, from the generation of our grandparents to parents to us as children (and their children), repeating over and over, the various belief systems, rejection of the same, and families and community have people of all different walks of life, that are trying to just figure out what this thing called life is all about.

Some parents become withdrawn, worn-down, and depressed as their dreams and hopes of life are not fully realized. Other parents, are the ones that are out hunting/gathering for the "truth" and the all the "right" things to say, do, believe in, and in our culture, BUY or invest in... to bring them happiness, purpose, security, and the ellusive happily ever after.

Life can be really messy and hard to explain, if we use the t.v. models of the 60's or 70's (or maybe in the 80's, 90's and current day, haha) to base our realities on.

You will be most fortunate, and lucky indeed, if you can get your Dad to engage in a frank discussion about the school. If he is indeed STILL into RSE, the only communication suggestion I offer (via Dale Carnegie) is to not alienate him (pardon the pun)(heh heh)if you would like an opportunity to really talk to him about it, or in time, help him.

IF you are the true enlightened Master (the original meaning of the word, not the R-speak) as his son, and it sounds like you do love him...

You might? (or might not) be able to reach him with acknowleging his efforts, attempts and trying to better himself or you/your family through the years. IT may be he is secretely running scared. He has an investment of a lifetime (Time and money and ego, reputation, and belief system) into something he HOPED would protect all of you from the problems of life, and ideally be investing for some soon-to-happen way of being a better person, perhaps well off, and IRONICALLY wanting to have the best life in the world with his family.

in the Dr. Phil speak, he probably would chuckle or shake his head if asked, "and how is that working for you?" because you have noticed that none of the dire cataclysms, economic disasters or get-rich plans have worked... yet... they are still hoping and preparing.

I was the firstborn of a father, and I have a firstborn son, so I know what it is to question and wonder about the 'what-if's of life. In my case, my father was not involved in a church, organization, or cult.. and my son doesn't feel betrayed, or missing time by my attending the time away. It is us as former attendees that may feel a guilt and shame that had we not slowly began to believe in any of the stuff we heard, we might have made other choices.

Yet, virtually all of my family and friends are not involved with the school, or a handful only read the books and laughed at it. I look at coworkers, friends and acquaintances and their life choices. Some of them made good investments in the stock market, money markets or investments... others made bad choices. Some got money from their parents, but never liked their parent(s). Others never had more than two nickles to rub together, some are close to their parents, others blame them for everything.

When stocks or corporation investments go bad, and people lose a lot or everything, and that effects the family/lifestyle and future.. we hear about it, eventually. People sometimes get over it, but usually live with the results of their choices the rest of their lives.

With organizations, religions, cults, or groups of any kind, when they slowly become the source of how you base your decisions, actions, reactions and choices upon... becomes a sticky and enmeshed business.

The lucky ones find their way out, either over time or suddenly. They certainly learn from the experience, and with human nature being what it is, and shame/guilt/regret and the awareness of loss of missed time, and poor investment, comes a process of either healing or regret, or both.

I am glad you love your father with all your heart, and I'm happier still you are wiser to be independent of the snare that caught him, one that I hope you might realize, his intentions were (or are) good... but in time, as in over time, he will eventually reason this for himself. You will be a great help to him when that hour comes. For surely this cannot go on indefinitely. Your hope for that, personally, is that those who have been involved with the school for many years or decades, are now moving on, and while your Dad may choose to believe in these things for many years after that happens, he will need your understanding, love and forgiveness to help his someday awareness of what the consequences of his choices have made.

This is not to at all legitimize, excuse, or diminish any of the sharing or posting on this or other sites. Your Dad, and millions of people in this world, are looking for something, and/or someone to believe in, to provide a roadmap on how to navigate and live life. Those who do not find that answer or find the hypocrisy of churches or religion not to their liking are searching. When they think they have found something different than all the words, philosophies, answers, 'truths' that have been shared for millenia, or re-discovering ancient truths, this speaks to them, or they entertain the possibility that they might have discovered a lost or sacred, secret, forgotten method to happiness, love, purpose, or connection to God, whatever one conceives that to be or not to be.

Zeike, you live in an exciting generation and as every generation before you, one in which, the future offers the potential to greater awareness, reasoning, especially in the internet-information age. It helps dissolve superstitions, belief systems and all manner of things that have been perpetuated by ignorance, time, distance, culture, language, and fear. At the same time, the very same temptations, snares, and opportunities for your life-choices you will make, while more tech-saavy, may or may not result in any of the other distractions and illusions that life offers.

One hears often about the Journey being the adventure or happiness... If there really was a single, safe, truthful answer, one would be able to follow that, and live happily ever after.

Whether a fortune teller, the most highly educated scientist, philosopher, or sage... history and literature suggest human beings have been asking the same basic questions all along, and trying all manner of action, ritual, belief system and life choices.

You might have been born into a family and/or community that didn't believe in electricity or the computer, technology, but just the way of their interpretation of the bible. You might have been born into a family and/or community in a different part of the world, where western beliefs, idealogies and capitolism were not tolerated, punishable by dismemberment and/or death.

You might be living a life watching your friends and even some family shot thru gang initiations or retaliations. You might be living a life in an affluent family wanting for nothing, but suffocating from the genuine ability to live, act, and express your own personality and desire through the control of family.

I offer these perspectives only in an attempt to help you realize that your Father probably? is not a bad guy at all. Probably loved (and still does) love you very much. PROVIDED he is not forcing you to believe the things he does, or force you to attend events or make choices based on that, you are not as dissimilar from most sons in this world. It might have been a religion or a family-business.

You are entitled to feel all the emotions you are feeling, and has been suggested, may even choose to challenge him on these things. You KNOW the truth, you also realize how difficult it can be to convince someone (anyone) that what they have chosen to believe in is not true.

It sounds like you are now 21 or 22 years old, and are now "on your own". Hopefully you can learn from this experience, and as you go thru life, will be able to avoid the same pitfalls and distractions which you have experienced.

Thank you again for sharing your perspective and post. You have the choice of feeling betrayed, or abandoned based upon retrospection. Again, I grew up with kids from families from so-called "normal, healthy" childhoods and families, and they still felt abandoned, misunderstood, or many felt abused by one or both parents, step-brothers/sisters, family, and no cult (other than socially prominent accepted religious denominational churches).

Thank God, your Dad is still alive, didn't end up suffocating in some UG somewhere, or making your family live in a UG awaiting the end of the world.

There are some great links and suggestions to support on how you might interview or communicate with your Dad, but when anyone is challenged about their strong beliefs, addictions, and lifestyle, it is not something that happens easily, or quickly, and often results in alienation for years or most of their lives. If you have a great communication and relationship with your Dad, perhaps a cool sense of humor, and even a cynical remark now and then might reach him. I don't know many kids (or Sons in their teens or early 20's) that fully understand the choices, lifestyles, actions of their parents. One thing for sure, it may not be a cult such as you have tolerated, but it very likely could be something else in the course of your lifetime that later you look back upon and realize (After the experience of it all, and the consequences) that maybe that was not the best idea you ever had.

Like many on this site, I know what may have first entranced and caught your Dad's attention, and he may be silently struggling with now, but he'll figure it out. It will be easier for him, if he knows he is loved and respected by you, in SPITE of his long-time hope and dream of the truth of what he was being told. That will mean the world to him someday, and hopefully, you'll be able to laugh about it for years to come. I do understand where you are coming from, and your understandable right to all the feelings you are having, just offering different perspectives so that you don't add to the feeling of abandonment or separation. By all means, if you have not already, you should communicate with your father your concerns and feelings, but just when you do, find a way to reach him, without blaming him for the loss of a normal childhood. He's got to feel feelings inside himself, that he may not have expressed to you, but if you both live long enough, and keep your friendship open, you'll someday find it is something that adds depth to the pains of life, and all it's disappointments. To find that friends, loved ones, love you in spite of not being perfect, and all the imperfections, and all the actions and choices one makes, they are still loved. That surely comes closer to the way of what he started out, or still believes, he is learning there. Best of luck!

Happy New Year to you Zeike!

See&E

I know several "Ramtha parents" personally. While See&E made some very eloquent and well-thought-out points that I totally agree with in every respect, I'd like to add that the HUGE difference between "Ramtha parents" that bring Ramtha home with them on a daily basis (not all do, believe it or not) and non-cult parents is that the cult parents aren't able to translate or teach ANYTHING...not a single skill, that comes from the cult that the child is able to use in a meaningful way while it learns how to master living on a planet with several billion other people...aka "your life". For some strange and quirky reason, finding a crayola card in a corral has yet to translate into communication comprehension skills. Hmmm.....funny that.

Rather, and quite disturbingly, these cults, like JZ and her munchkins, teach and practice social skills that more resemble Soviet Russia than they do any sort of free-thinking, diverse society.

Red Guard, anyone?

I believe that there could be RSE people who nonetheless put their families first. The one I know, though, has separated from most family ties (but has no small children).
Having to build a UG...sounds tough and trying, but as has been suggested, it may have been your Dad's sincere belief that by doing so he was guaranteeing your safety.
Strikes me that what RSE parents (and many others in modern North American culture) are demonstrating is a focus on SELF to the exclusion of others - and that is definitely part of the deal with RSE; also as has been suggested here, this could be seen as a means of helping others better...perfecting the self in order to serve. Sadly, it does not usually appear to work out that way...so many lessons, so many teachings, so many excercises, and YOU NEVER GRADUATE...so, never believing you have achieved perfection, you never get to the point where you feel ready to begin helping others.
At least your Dad came home every night, and engaged you in his activities, even if he was wrongheaded.
And, his trips to the ranch could be equated with some people's business trips or sales conference attendance.
This contrasts to a man I know, who had a serious drinking problem...he worked in a doughnut factory, and made a decent enough living, but from time to time he would spend his entire paycheck in a bar, and end up feeding his family doughnuts for dinner.
And, he was not a member of any particular group, from what I understand...Now in a twelve-step program. It seems to be helping..sadly, too late for him to be a decent parent.

I hasten to say, the "man I know" is not my own Dad.

Also, confronting your Dad may not help, if he is still involved in RSE.

Perhaps more helpful is to recite this little phrase, at least, I have found it helpful in dealing with issues with my Mom...
"Our parents do the best they know how. When we become adults, it is up to us what we do with all of the good and/or bad things that they gave us."