Housekeeping: As is posted on the EMF Message Board page, this forum is for support, sharing opinions and experiences for those who have left RSE and have doubts and concerns about their tenure there. It is NOT a place for proselytizing for RSE, JZK Inc or Ramtha. Play nicely or your post will be sent to cyberspace time-out for all eternity. The disclaimer for EMF is located on this page http://enlightenmefree.com/disclaimer.html and all posters agree to the terms of the disclaimer. Be sure you've read it before posting.
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Personally, at EMF this board CAN assist some to see more clearly....
B U T....
Some people here... truly NEED Professional help... something MORE than just reading and writing a post or two.
I think EXIT Counseling is what they call it ... and it requires more than just reading messages on an EMF message board.
Any doctor worth their salt, will tell some here, to seek a professional.. and in fact, some of these post would not be good until a NEW PERSPECTIVE has been gained.
Yes this place can help... but when you have some posters here that are obvioulsy hurt so deeply that anyting written offends them... than I would say it is time to seek a doctor to help you sort it all out.
Just my 2 cents.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Wellspring offers a quality program. You may want to check it out.
So, you think angst, the effects of mind control/brainwashing, righteous indignation, a clear sense of personal boundaries, and sticking up for oneself, constitute a 'medical' condition? Please explain?
An exit counsellor might indeed be helpful to some.
A shrink? Don't think so.
You better hand this bone to another dog.
I could not agree more.
YOU should RUN get tyger and go see a doctor.
I think it would be to your advantage to mention "passive aggression" as a mutual problem.
Show him (the doctor worth salt)those 60 year old big pearly whites that "many" dentists admire (how come "many"?) and let him know you love him.
la la la
I called your 2 cents sweetheart. Who loves ya baby?
I need not say anyting... YOUR Post say it all.
See a doctor... call 911. Smile.
****!you had it on the tip of your tongue!
I need not say anyting (anything).
But for the passive aggression you could have stopped right there.
I smile backatcha, you're getting closer!
RSE is a destructive cult..
So how best to deal with this?
No one... deserves to be in a cult.
From everything I have researched and understood about "Cult recovery"
accurate information shared in a caring and understanding environment is a key….
Joe is here to lend a hand,
If just one person is helped out of the RSE ditch from our EMF efforts
Then this website is doing what it was created for.
Calling 911 is certainly advisable… If life and limb are on the line….
From my understanding..
Few doctors are even remotely aware how to deal with a PTSD victim of cult abuse.
Calling the local practitioner in Yelm…. you may end up with Kathy May
advising more RSE disciplines with the assistance of Prozac ….!
Next time you see those Dolphins…!
Say high from me…
Ok David of course you are right... no problem...
and Yes, those dolphis are swimming ... jumping... and not worring abit about EMF or Ramtha or anything like that.
THAT HE SANG AT THE COUNCIL ROCK WHEN HE DANCED ON SHERE KHAN'S HIDE
The Song of Mowgli--I, Mowgli, am singing. Let the jungle
listen to the things I have done.
Shere Khan said he would kill--would kill! At the gates in the
twilight he would kill Mowgli, the Frog!
ate and he drank. Drink deep, Shere Khan, for when wilt thou drink again? Sleep and dream of the kill.
I am alone on the grazing-grounds. Gray Brother, come to me!
Come to me, Lone Wolf, for there is big game afoot!
Bring up the great bull buffaloes, the blue-skinned herd bulls
with the angry eyes. Drive them to and fro as I order.
Sleepest thou still, Shere Khan? Wake, oh, wake! Here come I,
and the bulls are behind.
Rama, the King of the Buffaloes, stamped with his foot. Waters of
the Waingunga, whither went Shere Khan?
is not Ikki to dig holes, nor Mao, the Peacock, that he should fly. He is not Mang the Bat, to hang in the branches. Little bamboos that creak together, tell me where he ran?
Ow! He is there. Ahoo! He is there. Under the feet of Rama
lies the Lame One! Up, Shere Khan!
Up and kill! Here is meat; break the necks of the bulls!
Hsh! He is asleep. We will not wake him, for his strength is very great. The kites have come down to see it. The black ants have come up to know it. There is a great assembly in his honor.
Alala! I have no cloth to wrap me. The kites will see that I am
naked. I am ashamed to meet all these people.
Lend me thy coat, Shere Khan. Lend me thy gay striped coat that I
may go to the Council Rock.
the Bull that bought me I made a promise--a little promise. Only thy coat is lacking before I keep my word.
With the knife, with the knife that men use, with the knife of the
hunter, I will stoop down for my gift.
Waters of the Waingunga, Shere Khan gives me his coat for the love that he bears me. Pull, Gray Brother! Pull, Akela! Heavy is the hide of Shere Khan.
The Man Pack are angry. They throw stones and talk child's talk.
My mouth is bleeding. Let me run away.
Through the night, through the hot night, run swiftly with me, my brothers. We will leave the lights of the village and go to the low moon.
Waters of the Waingunga, the Man-Pack have cast me out. I did
them no harm, but they were afraid of me. Why?
Wolf Pack, ye have cast me out too. The jungle is shut to me and
the village gates are shut. Why?
Mang flies between the beasts and birds, so fly I between the village and the jungle. Why?
I dance on the hide of Shere Khan, but my heart is very heavy. My mouth is cut and wounded with the stones from the village, but my heart is very light, because I have come back to the jungle. Why?
These two things fight together in me as the snakes fight in the spring. The water comes out of my eyes; yet I laugh while it falls. Why?
I am two Mowglis, but the hide of Shere Khan is under my feet.
All the jungle knows that I have killed Shere Khan. Look--look
well, O Wolves!
Ahae! My heart is heavy with the things that I do not understand.
Literature Network » Rudyard Kipling » The Jungle Book » Ch. 5: Mowgli's Song
Exit counseling is primarily education, a process of sharing infomation that has substantial support in the social and scientific environment that we all share in no matter what our internal preferences, pathological notions, beliefs, characterological traits, skin color, age or attitudes.
I recall once in 1981 sitting with a young (22) lady in Santa Fe at the bequest of my ex-wife who was her supervisor in a women's clothing boutique. The young lady had become obsessed with the I AM cult that had a "Sanctuary" [worship center] in Santa Fe. She agreddto meet with me. We talked for maybe 2-3 hours. Once she realized that I had strong evidence that ole Guy Ballard, aka Godfre Ray King, had plagiarized from 19th century works to write about his 1929-30ish "spiritual adventures" with Saint Germain [Unveiled Mysteries] and that I had info from the 1940-46 federal trial that indicted the Ballards and I AM on 19 counts of fraud, she literally pleaded with me not to go on. I clearly recall her saying, "Please, the I AM means too much to me and I do not want to lose it."
So, I had to stop no matter what.
You can lead a seeker to water....
I meant "behest" of my ex-wife, not "bequest"
She could be quite insistent but not one to treat an employee as valuable property...
Joe, thank you for that post...
I can well relate because there was a time, I could NOT listen or HEAR the words of my family to see clearly what I was caught up within.
My problem, was similar to the one in the I AM movement to some degree. My personal idenity was very wrapped up in all the crazy stuff.
I had a personal investment in time money and god. Sort of like the commercial with the guy with the giant EGG carring his investment around every where looking after it Smile.
I think this might be a reasons why good people who know right from wrong, can turn and look the other way while they know in their heart ABUSE is happening.
This would also explain why good people, can lie, cheat or steal for their leader in the name of some HIGHER ideal of self... and God.
It reminds me of the guys in the OSHO group who contanimated all the Salad Bars with the Salmonella bacteria at the local resturants so the locals would all be sick and NOT VOTE at the election; they wanted their cult memebers to be on the Community Board so they could get THEIR agenda approved. The higher good for their cult, alloed good men and good women to do terrible things in the name of god.
People NEED People in their life. We are NOT an Island. It can be very freightening when you stand alone naked with just you and no cults or family or religious organizations capturing your mind with idenity. There is comfort in belonging to groups. smile.
Personally I got caught up in both Ramtha and Mafu after I had made a lot of money, purchased a lot of worldly things... and sat one day and ask ...
What's it's all about Aflie? Smile.
A series of event connections happened and I attended one of the Ram's Video Hawaii gathering... and then I was hooked.
But, looking back, I already had the problem first, I was board with buying things and flying all over the place supporting my home grown business at the time. The demand on my TIME was a big issue. I was lost in the process of being successful.
Then I just exchanged it to be LOST in the cults I was involved in... I just exchanged one for another.
But; that BIG WORD GOD... is was the hook for me... wrapped in a nice red package... makes it all seems BETTER.
I can clearly see now, what I did not know before, and could not HEAR when my family wanted me to STOP the madness.
It was a NEW Idenity... and because even with all my property and wealth at the time.... I still had self-value issues. Trying to be everything to everyone.
I think Self-Value issues makes you the over-achiever.. trying to prove somethin.
One hook, I did learn many things about my self during the process... but looking back, I could have saved a lot of money by just finding a good Psychologists to help me sort it all out.
The real problem in cults is that BIG WORD GOD... it changes the dynamics of everything for me.
Back then, the big problem was, I could not say NO.
So I must admit, I had the PROBLEM before my first Ramtha event. Ramtha, just twiked it and confused everything more... by adding GOD.. to the mix.
Now, I still make a lot of money, and certainly do not want for anything.. but the difference is, I changed careers to a profession that is more rewarding.... an even exchange of energy and I am happy to be paid to do what I love.... I love my life now too. I am truly living in a wonderful heaven effortlessly.
The money was not the problem.
The property and things were not the problem.
The people was not the problem.
and softly... Ramtha was not the problem...
.....It was always me. I personally had a problem.
To some degree.. and I will write this very softly.... SOME DEGREE.... in all the craziness at the two Ranches... they facilite the PERSONAL ISSUES and PROBLEMS of people like myself.. who already had many issues and problems long before they show up at an RSE event. Smile.
And... RSE further complicates it all.
I think one realizeing for me was in the early 90's ... I watched as my personal bank account shrunk and shrunk now that is an EYE OPENING thing... where did it go... You know that answer. In the NAME of God... and a higher ideal... give it all the channels. It's only money.
You can not be in poverty to participate in any degree in the beginning.. because the cult business is very expensive business. smile.
The whole subject of the mind is a vast void, that can be filled with whatever you wish... and it does expand what you focus on...
This world is a blank sheet of paper, and we are each the problem with the results. ... and it takes a long long time to see it, from a different point of view.
We sometimes find good pictures to color in and fill our BLANK PAGE.. and then there are thousands of cult pictures that we can also color in that BLANK PAGE... and yes in those filling in the blanks... RSE plus the others are right there ready to TAKE their share of your life and money to FILL their BLANK PAGES too...
So, the beat goes on and on.
You could say a similar thing about someone addicted to Drugs... Sex...Sports... Business or whatever.
It certainly keeps all the Psychologists and Exit Consulors hard at work sorting out all the stuff that is left after the blank pages of life have became so full of crap a new blank page is needed.
Thank you for sharing that. The variety of ways in which those involved extricate and continue on with their lives from groups and addictions off all sorts shows the many different opportunities that are out there. Stories like yours increase possibilities as opposed to the limiting of them like in RSE.
Have a merry!!
Thank you, also, Lavendar.
Kisses and Hugs...
Merry Christmas All..
Lavender, I think your [or any ex-cult member] taking responsibility for 'being naive' is a good step and a very healthy one.
But it does not end there, and I think you and most folks on this forum understand this.
Stopping oneself from being conned requires a "stop and think" period before making, or continuing to make, an emotional and intellectual leap [intuitive?...[:)s]] by looking at the fine print and the history.
Next step is sorting out the nature of con artist, then figuring out how to stop people from believing the con artist and to stop the con artist.
RSE students that carp about "moving on" cannot grasp this last and necessary issue if we are to live in a free society.
The RSE member wants to be "left alone" and argues that they have a right to follow Ramtha.
Sure they have a RIGHT, but Ramtha's sick behavior and distorted, harmful teaching creates the DUTY [responsibility] for people who know better to interfere and speak out.
When JZ cleans up her act, admits to the con, and dissolves the school, I might "move on."
EMF did not start this fire.....it is merely helping to aim the hoses.
Joe said, "When JZ cleans up her act, admits to the con, and dissolves the school, I might "move on."
That's how I feel about that, too. We've been told by current students, or ex-students that left for various reasons but still support the teachings/RSE in some way, that we should just move on. That because we haven't "moved on". They equate moving on to shutting-up-and-going-away-quietly, or that we're angry, miserable wretches because we couldn't cut in in the school - all of which is simply untrue - but it works for them to believe it is, which is fine except that it keeps them stuck there.
Time will tell if JZ admits to the con and "moves on", or if it gets done for her.
Joe said, "EMF did not start this fire.....it is merely helping to aim the hoses."
Yup ! And there IS Life After RSE !
I'd like permission to copy lavender's post of Dec21 and joe's post of Dec. 21 to send to the wife in hopes that this powerful sharing might get through.
I think it goes to the heart that you do not have an axe to grind and your focus is to share as well as warn.
Here is the URL for this "thread":
If you would please include that with the cut/paste "posts" that you want to send to her, that's much appreciated. It just cites the source, which is common etiquette for sharing such info.
If you don't mind, let us know how it goes. Her response will be interesting. My family did a slow "drip, drip, drip" with me. I did listen. I wasn't ready to act, but their viewpoint always stayed simmering on the back burner, being considered.
I think, if we are to narrow it down to what we've learned on EMF so far, there seems to be at least several categories for WHY people get sucked into RSE.
1. Looking for purpose in life.
2. Issues from abusive or addictive childhoods.
3. Having some "psychic" experiences and wanting to know more.
4. Being sucked into the con because not enough research was done before going/staying.
Of course, those things can, and probably do, overlap to some degree or other.
(Want to laugh ? This is totally off topic but pretty funny, I think - for those who want to keep reading. For the holidays, we have a lot of company coming, starting tomorrow. Well, I'm busy washing bedding and general laundry, baking, cooking, running store errands, etc. All good; all fun.
My washing machine hasn't been rinsing quite right, though it's a quality, nearly new machine; kinda curious. We put off calling the repairman, because the rinse cycle was working sometimes, so we figured we probably were overloading the machine. Did smaller loads and still - wouldn't spin the clothes "dry".
Hubby called the repair man, who came at lunch time, and ....knew exactly what to do. Lo and behold, as he removes some panel and unscrews some widget, water gushes out...along with...11 pennies, a nickel, a dime, a child's blue beaded bracelet, six nails, hubby's store card for Auto Zone, two Lego pieces, a few buttons, daughter's kiddie laptop stylus, lint, a marble, and I don't even remember what else was in that pile. The repairman certainly wasn't surprised, and said he's seen much worse than that and we were lucky the nails didn't puncture the hose so we'd have had a flood. Yikes.
The kids are all standing in the doorway staring at this guy, doing his job. My little two year old says to him, "What you doing here ?" We both (him and I) just burst out laughing.
He looked at me and said, "I'm not charging you for this. I'll cover it under the warranty, which just ran out. If you call me back here again (as he looks at the kids), next time, I'll charge you." Well, he knows there won't be a next time, because I saw how simple it was for him to fix it, so I can do it myself. Now, it's almost 1 a.m.....my laundry is done ...so I am going to sleep !
Ho, ho, ho...
Is there any way to "capture" the Margaret Singer video to distribute to various health professionals? My husband attended just one beginning group, in a luxury area. I was with him. It was after the beginners was shortened to the four-day (you know, to accommodate more attendees who can't afford nine days away from their jobs!) Although my husband saw it clearly as a business, since it was only a short version of the "shebang" he doesn't see the depth of the danger. We are both in the health field, and maybe, just maybe, we can help with the education and awareness of how destructive these groups are - even after just one nine-day event. It's worth a try. Is there any way to "clean up" the YouTube version digitally so that it can be offered as a tool to certain psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and intake workers? The experience of JZEve's "Three Faces" fantasy world has left many people spiritually vapid. Joe is an expert in this area, and his knowledge of education being a part of the solution, is nearly completely unknown in the healthcare world.
Lavender - you run a school for, is it RN's or LPN's? Do you find anything in the curriculum required by the state to educate in the area of LGAT's, cults, or other destructive groups?
It would be a huge service to this world were this topic a necessary rotation for all those who work in healthcare in any manner. Far too many people are misunderstood - as Margaret Singer explained, "you did not set out to join a 'cult,' - they found YOU.
At what point does it become epidemic, even pandemic? (world tour)
Thanks for all you do!
Whatever I post I assume will travel but you have my permission to cut and paste as long as you "blame" me in context for what I said
G2G, for "capturing" video contents on web pages, just go to this link :
At the top of the page it opens, there'a a rectangular button on wich
you can read "Drag this button into your links toolbar..."
Just click and drag this button to the links toolbar at the right or the
address bar (if you use Internet Explorer).
Then, when you open a web page with video content, just click on this
Links button [»] then click on the "Keep It!" link. This will open the
KeepVid web page and you'll get a download link for the video.
You have to rename the downloaded file with the extension ".flv" wich
is the Flash Video file extension. This works with most of the videos on
YouTube, Google Video and many more. Hope this will help.
whatchamacallit, thanks for the repairing tips for the washing machine,
mine has the same rinsing problem. I'll try to fix it.
Merry Christmas to you all !
Thank you Joe.
All 4 apply. Additionally she says she now (about 3 years)feels she has more control in her life. I'm not sure but I think this had to do with finding cards. We had set up a small practice arena on our property in CA. While she became more proficient at locating the cards I saw no real-life benefit. On further thought, it seems finding a card became a draw itself, substantiating credibility that again, had no real life effect but gave her cause to continue.
For the record I had no idea the depths she had gone to in this rse stuff. It was only when hitting Yelm and dealing with an rse realtor that the true motivation came up. I had not heard of the UG's nor the coming certain catastrophe. Upon seeing an actual UG in the process of being built and the cost both financial and emotional to the family involved that I realized the jim jones aspect of the rse path. It explained why the realtor was persistently showing me property with a slope and over 400' elevation. the topper was that this UG was going to have a "wine cellar". Just how crazy can you get?
Lavender, I have not heard from you. As it was your post that was the catalyst for some great info here I would like to have your permission to use your share.
Hi Bud, Yes, of course I always give permission. Smile. The purpose is to try and help others... if it helps it is a good thing.
Joe, I do want to resond to your post... you make excellent points about Mind your own business...
It is a challenge as to WHAT we can do and what we are willing to do to TELL OTHERS about these groups.
I need a little time to digest it and contenplate the issues... and of course it is the Holiday and we are getting ready for family tonight... so I will respond later probable in a few days.
I have been thinking about this this past week:
How many times, in that stupid made up character's audience (ty Bud for that)
did you hear it say," how many of you can look back on your life and see how much better it is NOW, than it was THEN?"
Thunderous applause ensues with, "turn to your neighbor and explain."
Then, with much gusto, you tell your partner how much better you THINK you are now than let's say, ten years ago.
I used to BELIEVE this way.
Looking back, I gave up a great job, the white picket fence dream, sold all my belongings to schlep my way 3000 miles away, only to find myself living in a yurt without a job and now fighting with my partner of ten years.
And a few years after that, being asked AGAIN in audience, "how much different is your life TODAY that it was THEN?"
So, I upgraded to living on my own piece of land, WITH a UG, just having electricity installed and working at the ranch for $10/hour.
I thought I had TOTALLY improved my life.
I could go on, but as you can see, it slowly de-volved to the point of a nervous breakdown as a result of discovering that this group really was a cult.
One is LED to believe that what they are doing at the Ranch truly enhances their life.
The whole process broke up my immediate family, left me near destitute, and broke me mentally.
It is hard to imagine that I actually thought I was improving my life.
Now that I am out, the whole process seems totally absurd!!
How many other people left their families, good paying careers, sold most of their belongings, only to go sit on a floor in a not-near-enough heated horse arena to be told, " I will make you into
Um....when was that going to happen?
ps. thank the universe for exit counseling and a sliver of an open eye to truly wake up.
Most of the videos are downloadable,
Look for the “Download this Video” tab.
Thank you Druid for the “keep video” link:
I can also post you a DVD copy of any of the video’s presented here.
Just send an Email request to...