Enlighten Me Free

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Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!" - a bit OT

One thing we have all most likely learned is that we are responsible for our choices---unless we are "brainwashed" by the big gal. Tyger, even though you had already experienced Judith, you still had a choice to say "no" to both your mother and your aunt. I am a health professional, as are many others here - and what I've experienced is when people - men and women - continue to subtly or otherwise give away their own choices, saying "mom yelled at me because I did this" or "I did this because of my mom" - it might be telling of a a need for a deeper look within of the nature of the relationship with the females in the family.

I don't think anyone here is disturbed by your experiences, for what you have experienced is invaluable and we can all learn from it. What is annoying to the opposite sex are the continuing "putdowns" to versions of "women" a la :"mommy earth" - and also to political parties other than one's own. It might be your style, but it detracts from the subject at hand.

Were someone to post, "all ex military guys are just blowhards" - okay, once in a joke - it's one thing. Maybe you can reread your posts and see where the putdowns are to we females. Do we really need this? Is is conducive to healing? Were you a medic in the military? Open any chests with rib spreaders? BECAUSE women are "tough," the euphemisms used on this board serve only to place women beneath the "alpha" male, yet again. Again, I cannot stress enough how valuable your input is, but can you offer your experiences to us without the references that are indeed dismissive to women, other political parties, etc., because we ARE still human. RSE did not rob us of that. People might feel this is about what is "politically acceptable speech," but nothing can be further from the truth. The manner is indeed condescending to women, and

I AM HOPING YOU, DAVID, AND YOU, JOE, CAN SEE THIS.

How can anyone come together in peace and healing when women are consistently reminded by the usage of certain verbage? A spade might be a spade, but "Mommy's" for the most part, nurture, love, give up careers, drive a hundred miles a day - you name it, for their children. And we don't get ticked off over coat hangers (To Wolf). My German Shepherd Schutzhund offers more respect to me.

Could it be that the "Gladys" story Judith tells - of blaming one's mother - is so? I have a writer ex-friend who was in military intel. He HAD to be right, always. I HAD to get a restraining order for that reason alone-because HE knew my feelings more than I did, afterall, he was in intelligence. It's not surprising he attempted to "own" me, when I heard the story of how he hated his mother so much that he was elated when she died. Something isn't right there. He constantly dissed women. So why be with one? Look, it's not that bad here. But it detracts from the topic at hand, and women and those who don't agree with us ought be allowed such. Is it necessary to add a "put down" in the mix, however? Don't you other men notice this at all? Or is the forum turning into a "good ole boys club?"

We sloshed through the mud, the creek, the tank, the whole shebang. We were knocked over by huge guys in the field, got up and kept going. So I respectfully request, respect the women who are here. We've been through the same as you have at RSE. And our goals ought be one.


Wolfie - you'll have to ask my kids if I was a "mommy dearest." That would be their determination, (however, I indeed used wire hangars for clothing!) I'm just grateful and happy they call me everyday and tell me they love both me and their father. (still married - 23 years and counting).

Maybe you need to be a woman to understand how the subtle remarks affect even young girls. We raise them to be strong these days, thank the higher power. Even so, they are ever aware of dissing women. Just turn on the radio and listen to some of today's music.

RESPECT WOMEN. And for those women who think it's a non-issue, look around at the pre-teen girls, and how they are so overly eager to please the "young men." It's imperative for the fathers in their lives to encourage them and make them feel secure. Otherwise, they'll have "lipstick parties" and worse. Self esteem is a HUGE issue. So even small remarks are extremely important. Yes we know you're big he-men. . But again, you were at RSE as well as the women.

Can we get back to discussing RSE, without the remarks?
A lot of work I know was put into getting this forum off the ground. There are posts that are indeed condescending to women of late. I need not go into further detail.

Intended with an "elevated" heart.


Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Ok guys... speaking very.. very softly....

Just let each person speak. so many here are still semi-supporting uncounsciously the RSE organization... so toes are steped on sometimes.

Aussies girl can not speak from the point of view of EXPERIENCE / WISDOM because... you have never been there.

So it is difficult to communicate with someone who has NOT exactly WALKED in the shoes of those who have.... just like Hillary and Bill Clinton... Hillary does NOT have the Experience of Bill... and Aussiegirl does not havce the EXPERIENCE of our walking. Smile.

I personally find Tyger very refreshing. I love calling a spade a spade... but of course this is not the spiritually correct way to be.

If you get your ego out of it ... and just let the energy be, we can all learn from one another.

Don't take it so personally, it is just energy.

Softly. Personally, I do not care WHAT education you have...... all of it is YOUR MIND / mental BS. So you highly educated ones... PLEASE take a breath.. and simmer down your EDUCATED EGO MIND.

There is a big difference in EXPERIENCE and EDUCATION.

Education is learned vomited information... experiece creates wisdom of your life by WALKING in the shoes of experience.

Why take any of this personally... just share...

Smile.

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!" (long post)

Preface: Everything in this post is MY OPINION, and not to be misconstrued as telling anyone “how to” or “what the right way is”. There’s even some humor within, if you can read it.

Tyger,

Obviously there are readers/posters on this forum who believe you are women bashing. There really is no need for that, is there ? If so, what is the need you see ?

G2G, I enjoyed your thoughtful post, and the fact that you did not resort to complaining about a wrong you see, by exemplifying another wrong (bashing in return).

Since there are a bunch of people posting, who are of course, going to see things through their own lense, I can add yet another viewpoint to this mix.

While I can understand why some people could see "women bashing" in Tyger's posts, and some of Wolfman's, I'm not reading them that way. What I'm reading is the association with the New Age, which he is pointing out as garbage.

Tyger, let's just ask you directly about your intent and personality? Do you consider yourself to be women bashing ? If not, since at least to some people it is coming across that way, what do you think about that ? You seem to be very forthright, so if you're a misogynist pig and proud of it, feel free to admit it so we can be clear about where you're coming from. Are you, are you ? Please do tell!

I agree with Lavender; I personally find Tyger's posts refreshing for the most part. I don't agree with everything he says, nor do I need to. Have you ever participated in a healthy debate ? SO much can be learned from debating ISSUES, without attacking people. If a debate is about needing to be right, not much can be learned. If a debate is about truly wanting to get to the core of an issue, and learn the truth, much can be learned on all “sides”. There are rules for debates, because people don’t always have it in them to stay on Issue. Instead, they get their personal buttons pressed and then start in with the emotional attacks, which can destroy the debate unless it’s steered back on track.

We all know there is a multitude of ways that we can experience prejudice in various shades of ugly. One that I am reading (and have in the past, quietly) on this forum is the prejudice against those people with advanced education. Lavender's previous post is a case in point.

If we heard a child prodigy who plays (for example) a piano at a very young age, we'd appreciate the human potential and enjoy the music. Or, we'd be jealous, or threatened, or some other Ugly. If we meet a person who can do math equations in their head - advanced ones - we are Wowed. Or Ugly with some form of prejudice. Or both.

There is a big difference between experience and education ? How so ? I would say that with education comes experience. That is, in part, what mentorships are about, as well as practical work and work study programs. The two things are not mutually exclusive, imo.

Lavendar quote: “Softly. Personally, I do not care WHAT education you have...... all of it is YOUR MIND / mental BS. So you highly educated ones... PLEASE take a breath.. and simmer down your EDUCATED EGO MIND.”

Lavender quote: “I personally find Tyger very refreshing. I love calling a spade a spade... but of course this is not the spiritually correct way to be.”

Okay. I see how this works. “OF COURSE? This is the spiritually CORRECT way to be ?” I respectfully disagree. In my whatchamacallit world, and SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, I determine my own set of mores and values. While I may not agree with everything that anyone on this forum posts, and while they may not agree with everything I post, there is a difference between speaking for oneself, and expecting or insinuating that others “should be” upholding any particular set of beliefs. Be it politics, religion, breast versus bottlefeeding, to circumcise or not, to eat meat or not, to have a family bed (children sleep with parents), to spank or not, to send your kids to private school, public school, or homeschool, to vaccinate or not, to go to college or not – all of these things I have seen hotly debated. If we end up with one MOLD that we all must Correctly Fit Into like good little pigeons, it’s time … imo … to move.

Softly equates citing education as mental b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t. ? Who are you to tell anyone to simmer down their “educated ego mind “? What I heard in your statement is fragile ego. Whether or not it comes attached to “education” is irrelevant.

If we do not have any advanced degree for the academic world that some people work hard to earn, and we encounter those who have, it's simple to discredit them on any level. There are plenty of people with advanced degrees that aren't ego-inflated puffballs. I know people from an assortment of different “walks of life” who have heads the size of Mt. Everest. Some of them are self-starters ; having their own business. To make a blanket statement about academia as being full of those who have overly inflated egos, or the ability (slam) to only vomit learning, I say that’s a short-sighted view. All of the advances that have been made in science and other areas of our society, as have been posted by JTR, have been made largely from those people who are studied…and applied in research. We all benefit from their gift. If a person has the ability to play as an accomplished piano player by the age of 6, or do complex math in their heads as a youth, or has the gift of intellect that is put to use in scientific research, or another area, why the slams ? Why marginalize what they do. Respect them with the respect you feel you deserve.

We all have something to give in this life. Those with stunning IQ’s, who make the most of them, with advanced degrees in complex subjects, who help society and perhaps the planet with their accomplishments & discoveries, deserve thanks. Those who live any walk of life and do so with integrity, and honesty, also add to the positive evolution of this planet, imo.

Some of us have doctorates in our field and opt to spend most of our time raising ten children, wearing many hats in the community, having started a number of corporations, and doing plenty of volunteer work, also. Busy, and happy. I’ve been told my education was “waste of time and money” because I don’t work full time and stick my kids in daycare. Says who ? ONLY I determine that. My education is put to use in a myriad of ways, that benefit others and even bring me income as a bonus. Not by the standard of convention, but by the standard of what I choose to live with as I walk in my own shoes.

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Hi What...

Ooooooops

Smile.

No, you have taken my post to a totally different place than I wrote it.

I have a Masters in business so I do appreciate the effort of education. That was NOT the point.

Sorry if your button was pushed.

Smile.

and I am sure everyone READS into post what they want.

Let's Kiss and make up....

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Also I see the words Education.... and Experience.

You can Educate someone with lots of MEMORIZED data and they can test and do very well.

As a Nursing Teacher, We must do CLINICAL EXAMS for all State Positions in addition to WRITTEN Exams.

Clinical Exams means you physically DO the skills. So in addition to reading a book and doing well on a written test.. you must PRACTICE the SKILLS and be able to DEMONSTRATE the skills.

Big difference.

You can read about a riding a bike... but one day, you must RIDE to know HOW TO TRULY ride the bike.

Education can also be a way to DRAW OUT from one that which is hidden within. Take the person who learns to play a musical instrument.

Many can play Oboe... but SOME can NATURALLY make an OBOE SING.... effortlessly.

Smile.

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Yes, I see what you're saying.

More later....

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

whatcha;

No, I don't think I'm "bashing women", or chicks, or totatoes, or whatever word you want to use.

I call it as I see it. If everyone is calling it "Mommy Earth" when it has no breasts or genitals to prove that....then I take note and illustrate that. It would be just as absurd if they called it "Daddy Earth". But they don't call it that....do they?

I find the entire topic sophomoric and boring.

On the other hand, I've heard this whining before, but only since America became a nation of metrosexuals and proud of it. LOL!!!! (oppppps....I did it again!)

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

"tomatoes".....that's what I meant...."tomatoes". (LOL....) ;-)

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

My two cents -- I did not read "women bashing" in general into anyone's posts ...

I think that Aussiegirl -- and myself, and other family members of current and ex students -- can totally relate and share experiences about RSE ... It may not be the exact same perspective as the current student, but it is a perspective none the less... Same ball of wax, just a different side....

I'm still not quite sure how or why most posts on this forum devolve into personality profile analysis of the poster, but maybe it's just part of the process... I for one, as I am sure many others agree, don't give a rat's *** what any one else here thinks of me or my life...It is silly to make judgments about people as a whole from posts on a bulletin board... very one dimensional.... If I can't speak the truth of how I feel / see things / RSE here.. then it is completely pointless... The idea of everyone sitting around holding hands singing kumbayah really rubs me the wrong way... People are different, they disagree... There wouldn't be a lot of honesty or truth w/o disagreement.

So there...

PS -- Tyger you made me laugh when you referred to my post about you and your "hooey" as "heat"...(wink)

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

There have been people who have referred to the patriarchal society they believe we live in, and one point of criticism is our history...HIS-story. Doubt that is anything new to any of us.

Then, there is (imo) the equally imbalanced view of Mother Earth.

It cracks me up that the New Age promotes "oneness", when upon evaluation, there are still these viewpoints which are upheld.

There's still a long way to go, imo.

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Marie;

"He who laughs most wins." Tyger, 1997

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

But what is there to win? And what is the contest? Imo, I view this world as one, and that even includes the big bad JZ (excluding whatever is "coming through" during her "channeling and/or acting)." When we see us all as one - all "human" with families, jobs, bills, (regardless of what country one lives in) -when we see us all as one, how can there continue to be hatred, wars, even laughing with contempt at another?

'Tis always the season to be humane.


Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

G2G......

The point is, regards to laughing, is..... can you laugh at yourself and your own limited mind patterns?

I known I can. But wait a minute! But If am right and all of you are wrong. How can I be laughing at myself?

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

LOL!!!

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

What do you mean I dont have the right to question your "crenditals"...or medals. Yes I do. By the way I do have my own medals. Navy seals aren't exactly the most desirable people on earth. Any more than cops are. So, if THAT'S your crendentials...you're barking up the wrong tree.
What people have you helped? How have YOU made the world a better place? You're crying about ROYALTIES?
Let's see your crendentials. POST it! Anyone can say anything..on net. DONT tell me I dont have the right to challenge YOU!

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Magpi,

You are welcome to contact me.

David.

LARSE@fairpoint.net

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

magpi;

I just checked. You STILL don't have the right to challenge me.

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Sigh... big egos make loud noises when they fall.

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

What's going on here? If I didn't know better, I'd believe this was an RSE "inflitration." I can see the snickering, "EMF will fall by itself by the bickering which occurs online." It's inevitable, and sad, for those who worked so very hard to create this.

Instead of a forum for healing, imo, it's turned into some sort of testosterone trip. I ask again, for a moment, to consider the verbage without any emoticons, etc., that in this genre, perhaps "triggers" are being set--and I do hope I am wrong, but it "feels" deliberate in at least certain cases, particularly when the "triggers" have been made known. If it's in jest, perhaps using emoticons would help. How many remember the verbally abusive attacks of the red guards and Ramthat? It wasn't that long ago for me. Consider also, the numerous people who were in abusive relationships during their lifetimes attempting to overcome those events along with growing through RSE.

Is there any attempt at understanding, or is it simply "fun' or comedic to insert the nasties within a post? Tree recognized it; others do as well. To me, I don't care if someone is JC himself. If we cannot respect one another and respectfully agree to disagree, this forum serves no useful purpose, other than for those who enjoy inserting the "triggers" to further hurt those recovering from the abuse. Someone with intellect and commonsense certainly is aware of what they are doing.

If we can question the great prophets, can we not also question other posters - respectfully? I'm finding, in my situation, the forum has degenerated into pleading to deafened ears, to those who care not, as to how the words are "teasingly abusive," to put it mildly. It's so sad to watch this. I imagine we all come to a point, as we did in RSE when we left, that we decide perhaps here is no longer helping when more time is spent asking for respect.

Ladies, those of you who have never been involved in a verbally, condescending relationship (other than your time at RSE), perhaps you do not see the demeanor of which I am speaking. Perhaps it's a "trigger" to me. And in that case, this is no better than RSE since it serves to cause more pain and reliving the RSE as well as a past abusive relationship.

Tree, I heard you, and I hear you. However, others with differing experiences might not recognize of which I speak.

I am ever grateful for finding this place and the unfathomable hours those who created this forum have engendered in their efforts. You are "angels" - if they exist. You've helped me along my road and I found a place that understood what I experienced.
Just as we don't use the verbage "so be it," "just do it" - triggers here, the tone and mockery now in motion is toxic to my healing.

Thank you David, Whatcha and Joe.

With a loving heart -

~Om Mani Padme Hum~ -

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Thank you G2G...
and everyone that is weathering this storm...

Your words are taken to heart, mind and action..

David.

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

G2G,

As David said, and I think you would expect of us, we are aware of things that are going on, and are working on them. Please bear with us, and have patience while we're handling things.

Thanks !

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

I knew as soon as Tyger started in on his Republican/Democrat, Liberal/Conservative crap that this was a divisive thread. This type of rhetoric is rarely informative usually destructive. Tyger is guilty of the logical error of generalization in most of his posts regardless of his claim of affinity for logic. I have found that an overbearing and abrasive man is usually that way because his is afraid of something.
Tyger KNOWS about Global Warming, The Environmentalists, and all things political and New Age. Yet his forum is not NBC or FOX but EMF.
If a man has an opinion and his thinking is based in science he must be aware that his consideration of what is true is at best a probability. That means in any opinion you "may" be wrong. Tyger does come off as not being aware of this. That being said, his statements must be taken as that of a neophyte to any endeavor. There is a passion and great enthusiasm that comes with a little knowledge and lots of zeal.
We know Tyger has said he has medals, was a seal etc.
The men I know who I respect rarely, if ever talk about Nam or what they did in any war. It is not something you deal with outside of a Vet's Hall with the civilian population, unless you have other reasons. IMO.
My point in all this is that I thought this forum was a thread to bring down jz with facts and planning. I had my ex look at the site to try and sway her to get out of rse. She wrote back, said she looked and thought it was "silly". So that's done. Let's move on with the mission at hand and leave the politics to the politicians and the science to the scientists. jz don't care what you believe but she loves to see dissention here.
If jz or her buddies happens to read this, "go fu*k yourself"

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

IMHO, the main goal of this this forum is to provide support
for those who went through RSE, to help them recover from this
experience, by sharing opinions and experiences relating to RSE.
I don't believe this is a thread to BRING DOWN anybody but rather
to BRING UP each other by sharing and caring for each other.

PEACE

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

I stand corrected

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Hi Druid,

I can agree with that. The purpose of this site is for support and information for ex-students primarily, and those loved ones who need support with family/friends still current in RSE.

If RSE/JZ gets "brought down" as a natural side effect of that, well, whatever. It's not the motive.
Given enough rope, they'll do that to themselves, imo.

Okay, off to the store with the kidlets to start buying groceries for Christmas Eve/Day meals. Let the baking and cooking begin, LOL.

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

watch : "If RSE/JZ gets "brought down" as a natural side effect of that, well, whatever. It's not the motive.
Given enough rope, they'll do that to themselves, imo."

Big smile

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

I should have mentioned in my post "those loved ones who need
support with family/friends still current in RSE."
as Whatchamacallit did.

Like Bud and Aussiegirl and many more , including myself,
even though I've attended a beginner's retreat, but in a
context far more different than it is at the "ranch". I
haven't get as deeply into it as my ex has.

I've learned so much on the phenomenon of cults since I
read this forum ! Thanks to everyone participating in a
way or another.

Peace on earth

Re: "Hello, It's Me!!!!"

Druid,

Something you said just made me think about how the people who attend events in other countries don’t get the same experience as those who go to Yelm. I’ve heard, the non-Yelm events are not a real accurate picture of what it’s like here. Actually, some people have posted that they were lured in, by attending event elsewhere and so they came to Yelm, only to be shocked and dismayed at the stark contrast. Well, I guess if they’re lucky, they get the shock as early on as possible and move on. That ‘slowly boiling the frogs’ effect doesn’t work the same as it does if you’ve only started and continued, by going to Yelm events, it seems to me.