Personally, I would pray for someone who asked me, for what they wanted. I mean, if a friend requested prayer for healing their illness, I would do that. If they asked me to pray for their friend, I probably wouldn't do it. Unless the friend put out a call for help from anyone willing, in that way.

I pray that God's will be done (highest good), UNLESS the person requests something specific. Then, I honor their request and don't have an opinion about it. I figure, God will have God's way, no matter what, so if a prayer request is made, it may or may not be acted upon. (Whatever God means to you, of course)

Of course, all of this presumes that there is a "God" in some way. That's another conversation, LOL.

thanks, I believe I understand.

I remember during an intense session in a course I took, I burst into tears. After class, a Christian lady approached me and asked me if she could pray for me. I wrestled with various ideas, but finally, I said yes, because it was clear to me that in her own way she was trying to help and comfort me.

Littlewiseone...I read that article, it is really what you said, easy to read and informative.

Watcha - in response to your first reply, yes I see what you're saying about people not seeing the point no matter how it is presented. That's the nature of being red in the rainbow I guess...

Also, it's the same reason I didn't look at it sooner than I did when I was still in rse. It shakes the very foundation.
Isn't it funny that one of the claims of rse is how 'the teachings' will revolutionize our view of the world and our self but when it comes to revolutionizing one's view of rse, no one is quite so willing.
Hypocrisy in action.
Again I say, if it's really that rock solid then it can be challenged and it will stand the test.

Liz, I have to admit that some of your posts had me slightly confused but I think I understand what you're saying about the dichotomy of 'being whole' and yet having to pray for things. Are you saying that when it comes to teachers or religion, they should make up their mind, either we are god or we are wretched things that need to pray for our salvation...?

When it comes to prayer, I think some of it does come down to what one's view of god or the universe or whatever is, which is certainly opening a can of worms, lol. If someone asks me to pray for them or a friend I usually just say, I'll keep you in my thoughts or I'll be thinking of you. I don't 'believe' in prayer, yet keeping them in my thoughts - while I don't think it will make any difference to their reality - is a way of being compassionate and showing my solidarity with them, for what it's worth. I agree with you too Lost, that sometimes you just let someone 'pray' for you if that's what makes them happy - it's the thought that counts, right?

Lost in Space - the argument could probably be made that the article is too simplistic or lumps too much of religion in with 'cults' in general but the assessment of how cults/groups/religions draw people in when they are low makes a lot of sense to me. At that point, when you have been pulled out of the depths of despair, it's almost as though you owe something to the group/ teacher for 'saving' you, and so the cycle is set...

I definitely believe in the power of prayer; but I also believe that when you pray for someone, even if they've solicited prayer, that you use the caveat "if this is for their highest good and the intent of their soul's purpose."

PS: tried to post this with Explorer but it said my IP address was blocked. Since there's no reason that should be I figure it was the typical problem with AOL shifting IP addresses. PLease clarify, as I have not posted anything to cause me to be blocked.
Thanks!

Are you saying that when it comes to teachers or religion, they should make up their mind, either we are god or we are wretched things that need to pray for our salvation...?
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This is exactly what I am sayig...

The next step is NOT doing C & E or PRAYING but SEE CLEARLY the people on the stage of life.. as different parts of self projecting the drama of life.

If you read the Lord's Prayer... there is no PRAYER for others...

You ask for :Forgive us of our trespasses(Iterfearance) as we forgive those who trespass (INTERFEAR) against us.

"Thy Will Be Done" On Earth as it is in Heaven....

These are not prayers for peace.

I would say if you want peace... be peaceful.

If you want abundance.. then GIVE FREELY TO OTHERS...

We become what we give out ward. At least that is what I have WATCHED happen around my life.

No SEPERATION of one is better or one is worst. The WHOLESOME approach of EQUAL EYES.

How can I truly say NAMASTE in one breath and then PRAY for them in the next?

For me personally, Namasté or Namaskar (नमस्ते [nʌmʌsˈteː]..."I bow to you". In recognizing a common divinity within the other person... to refer to some transcendent or transcendental power, or its attributes or manifestations in the world.

The root of the words is literally 'Godlike'

Look at the word God....God (IPA: /ɡɒd/) most commonly refers to the deity worshipped by followers of monotheistic and monolatrist religions, whom they believe to be the creator and ruler of the universe

Now, if I have just ACKNOWLEDGED the person as "GODLIKE" the Creator .. the Ruler of THEIR Uiverse, then why would in the NEXT BREATH, I would need to PRAY FOR THEM.

The two for me, do not represent the same. If I NEED TO PRAY for them, I immediately remove the GOLDLIKE Quality.. and I am acknowledging them as wretched being again.

In much of the New Age Religions... people seem to speak words with no deeper thought or understanding of what they are doing.

What do you do.... Well, if ask, what I do in my life is talk to them and remind them that THEY HAVE THE POWER to change their mind and life. Not by ME.. but by themself.

I ask them, what is the greatest outcome that you can imagine... I tell them to feel it.. and then let it go... and march on... live your life. One Day One Step at a time.

It flips the POWER back to self... not me.

If ASK, I tend to encourage them to get themself up there where they belong... smile... in a very kind compassionate gentle way. REMEMBER you are GREATER than the duality and events of this world.

BELIVE in them... Remind them that there is the GREATNESS of ALL THINGS and ALL POSSIBILITIES within them... encourage them.... and KNOW ... they have the POWER and are God.

I made a decision many years ago, that if I am going to speak these words like NAMASTE... then I must also LIVE those words... or else... I am only giving lip service to words I do not understad or playing word games with people....and in that, it is always ego driven.

No one less than or greater than anyone else.

The SAME Light is within ALL things... just different containers. Help them remember THEIR GREATNESS.

For me, it is a manipulation game, to pray for them.

The only prayer I would pray for anyone is THY WILL BE DONE. "THY" = ALL Prevailing Life

Smile.

Mind your own business works better... this way you do ot TRESPASS unless ASK... to come into their life.
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tres·pass (trĕs'pəs, -păs')

To commit an offense or a sin; transgress or err.
Law. To commit an unlawful injury to the person, property, or rights of another, with actual or implied force or violence, especially to enter onto another's land wrongfully.

To infringe on the privacy, time, or attention of another: “I must . . . not trespass too far on the patience of a good-natured critic” (Henry Fielding).
n. (trĕs'păs', -pəs)
Transgression of a moral or social law, code, or duty.
Law.
The act of trespassing.
A suit brought for trespassing.
An intrusion or infringement on another. See synonyms at breach.

Interesting thread. reminds me of some ex-member rap sessions I've sat in on at conferences.

Liz: Much of your personal philosophy reminds me of John Lennon's song "Imagine".

Lennon was shot to death by a crazy man, Mark Chapman, who heard voices telling him to do it:
"The song "Imagine" also angered Chapman – at prayer meetings and religious rallies, Chapman and his prayer group also sang a parody with the lyric "Imagine, imagine John Lennon is dead." Chapman had also read in a library book (John Lennon: One Day at a Time by Anthony Fawcett) about Lennon's life in New York. "He was angry that Lennon would preach love and peace but yet have millions [of dollars]," said his wife Gloria. Chapman later reported that "He told us to imagine no possessions, and there he was, with millions of dollars and yachts and farms and country estates, laughing at people like me who had believed the lies and bought the records and built a big part of their lives around his music."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_David_Chapman#Motivation_and_mental_health

The reason I bring this up is that people will not let us merely "let them be". What do we do with a man like mark Chapman--let him live in peace in his own reality?

Many people hate me for "interfering" with controversial beliefs and with cult members, yet so many others find value in it.
I think we would all like to live in the spirit of Namaste in peace with the holy silence around us---I know I do and I take advantage of it every chance I get, like when i walk my dog or work on a painting.
Keeps me sane...

....then I turn around to face the reality that I am married with children and I go to work nightly to face crazy people, some of who will say F$#% Y&%# after I say Namaste [figuratively]!


I think peace comes from how well we handle adversity. The "Lord's Prayer" is a behavioral formula for peace from one cultural religion. It contains the universal plea for reciprocity that leads to peace: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

just some thoughts to add to yours....and all.

Joe, your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Bodhi,

To clarify your question,

Your IP is not blocked.
Your posts are welcome.

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VNOTVirtualReality (hijacked?)

The Hijacker was posting from Hamburg, Germany.

The Moderators.

When I try to post from AOL I still get the blocked message but not when I post using the Metacrawler browser.
Is my IP address still hijacked; or do you think it's that AOL problem?
When I first discovered this site, through another cult forum I got a "you are blocked" message on that site and I have never posted on there, so I just figured it's that AOL problem.
In any case, if you can't solve the AOL problem, I'll just post from Metacrawler.

Thanks!

Being involved in many forms of spiritual studies over the years, I know I have points of view that may not be like everyone else.

Thank you Joe for your views too.

I do enjoy looking deeper at these questions anyway.

Smiles.

Yes, good post Joe. The problem I see with 'interfering' (and I'm not saying we shouldn't) is just, what makes our criteria for interference more valid than the missionaries or a fanatical ramster? It's more of an ethical question than an argument for 'namaste'. Kind of like whether it is ultimately ethical to constrain a person for the purposes of 'exit-counseling'. Maybe the stakes are what determine the necessary action.

""He was angry that Lennon would preach love and peace but yet have millions [of dollars]," said his wife Gloria. Chapman later reported that "He told us to imagine no possessions, and there he was, with millions of dollars and yachts and farms and country estates, laughing at people like me who had believed the lies and bought the records and built a big part of their lives around his music." "

Very enlightening. It never occurred to me that JZ and current Ramsters might interpret EMFers in this vein: JZ preaching being god and all the wealth rolling in and most Ramsters barely above poverty level, much less being in an occupation commiserate with their education levels (being compared to people on the "outside"). I , in fact, know of one person, who took a $10 and hour job in the mail order department just to have "the grand opportunity" to work at the Ranch. This person has an MA in speech pathology. Do you know how many people she could have helped in this lifetime , not to mention keep her lifestyle she was accustomed to BEFORE she came to RSE? And now she lives with gravity fed water. Just an amazing example of how brainwashing truly works.

Everyone here, will ALWAYS some basic point of foundation that we live our life. One could argue that ANY FOUNDATION could be considered a cult... and a IMAGINING.... as all beliefs are based on our foundations from our past... and perhaps dreams of a world that is ethical and respectful of all people.

I would hardly tell anyone to give up possessions or have none... I have been through the fire of wealth ...homelessness and rebuilding from the bottom up again.. and now I hardly live a live without anything... just the opposit... I can not think of anything I am without.

I have just like hundreds before me paid enormously for my life choices and being involved in cults. Eventually you do see that almost anything from baseball / sports / .... politial followings.... and high fashion all have elements of a cult like following.

In the end, we must each live within our own self... and have some basic guidelines for our joining and communing with one another.

Chop wood carry water... Mind your own business.. is only one type of guideline...

To each his own.


""He was angry that Lennon would preach love and peace but yet have millions [of dollars]," said his wife Gloria. Chapman later reported that "He told us to imagine no possessions, and there he was, with millions of dollars and yachts and farms and country estates, laughing at people like me who had believed the lies and bought the records and built a big part of their lives around his music." "

बोधि Bodhi

Yes...
It's an AOL problem.

The Moderators.