I like how you describe it. I see all that stuff too.
Keep talking.
I knew some of those teachers when they were just regular people. They were more humble of course, also I have heard them privately share thier "immatureness", vulnerabilities, etc.
But at the parties when they are there, all the old timers are like "Wow! look how far we've come, now were EQUAL to RAM!!!"..as "teachers"...etc..
...and I dont think they are all bad people actually..
I think when it becomes a paying job to be a public Big Guy, you have to deny those parts, or maybe not, maybe I am too comapssionate.

Hey, its nothing NEW to store food for the future, animals do it...

to make your home "safe" from the OBVIOUS threatening elements....
....to want to survive, comfortably thrive... and be strong.
Thats not "Rams" idea..


And yes, once i heard Him say he was a rogue element from Andromeda or whereever, I could easily quit IDOLIZING him.
I have my OWN personality to develop, thanks very much...

Hi. When u describe Ramtha, it sounds just like the personality of my ex-partner. The school accelerated his ego and he became an even bigger bully. He thought it to be a healthy self-esteem, but oh boy is there a difference between ego and self-esteem! The only difference was that this time he was proud of it and felt no guilt. The more time he spent saturating his mind in the stuff, the more like Ramtha he became -bossy, rude, anti-compassion, superior and dominating, intolerant, guiltless bully, extremely judgemental, justifying aggression with "teaching a lesson" or deserving it. He actually said sometimes "We work as a team and we do it my way!" He often said jokes like this and thought they were funny, but all of his comments were actually his true thoughts so they weren't jokes, they were discriminations and mockery of the people around him. I have never met anyone more judgemental of others than he. When he wasn't verbally battering me, he was critising everyone around him including complete strangers.

He hides his fear with his big fat ego. Underneath all those fists and claws is a frightened man, hijacked by Ramtha.

Ramtha's criticisms violate basic human rights and tolerances of human expression and choices; ie choice of occupation, choice of sexual sexual partner, choice of religion, choice of sexual preference, choice of diet, choice of personal beliefs, etc. This discrimination is justified because that person needs a lesson. This aggression is justified because this person needs to learn a lesson. The aggressive behaviour by Ramtha is justified because they say that a real master does not fit the stereotype of how we believe a master would act with calmness and compassion -like a monk. All the actions are justified because Ramtha is enlightened. Yeah? Well prove it! But then of course the lack of results and lack of proof is justified because they don't need to prove it -showing off would be egotistical. Hang on a minute, isn't superiority encouraged? Then we are left with rumours of secret magical events that took place at RSE by advanced students, which tag people along to keep coming. The school is fueled in part by rumours that keep hopes up and attendance up.

Perhaps there is a big lesson to learn from Ramtha's School of Enlightenment. Perhaps they really do teach enlightenment, but the real test, the real answer is that the school doesn't have it. The answer was with you all along. Perhaps the lesson is to do the opposite of the teachings and the opposite of their suggestions. Perhaps we can achieve enlightenment by realising the school isn't it, and that's the purpose of the school!!! Just a thought! What do you think? Has anyone ever thought of this before?

Vegan Pride

Hi VP,

I have posted before, along the lines of what you shared. I'll share this story: I met a woman in the Yelm area that was in a situation where she met many, many current students, who would come, and go. Her and I had many long talks - deep, thoughtful talks, about RSE, JZ, "Ramtha". This woman shared with me, that she watched so many people come and go - it would take an average of 2 - 3 years for people to figure it out, so to speak, and they would sometimes tell her they were not returning - and other times, she'd hear that they'd stopped returning.

We chatted (not debated - just talked honestly) about our viewpoints with regard to whether JZ was full of xxxx or not. She believed (and I expect still does) that there never was a Ramtha. Her opinion. But, when it all comes out in the wash, she didn't care. There I was, coming from the opposite perspective, and thinking there was a Ramtha, and yet, coming to the same conclusion. At a certain level, it didn't matter if he did/didn't exist.

What mattered, she told me, was that she live her life with honesty and integrity. She felt that if she made choices to be loving and helpful and understanding toward other people in her life, and not to knowingly harm anyone, she was doing "right" by everyone. She figured if there is a God, she would be able to face "him" with a fairly clear conscience.

To this day, I chuckle at her conclusion, because I have come to agree with that view. But, she didn't have to spend six digits $$$$ to have the realization that WE ARE responsible for our actions, words and deeds - especially when we're hurtful to another. There is no guru OUTSIDE of us, an external locus of control as they say in psychology, that is going to live our lives for us. WE ARE IT. Not in an unhealthy narcissitic way, but in a RESPONSIBLE way.

That's what, IMO, the current students - especially the fanatical ones - fail to understand in themselves. They are still lost, and have blurred the boundaries between themselves as unique souls, into what they believe Ramtha to be. Ramtha becomes their conscience, their thoughts, their viewpoint, everything. Even their emotions. If he comes into the audience, and reams them out for not measuring up to some teaching, or discipline, they adopt the reflection of "Ramtha's" emotional DRAMA.

Don't they get that ? They are told to get BEYOND the emotional body and its deceptions. Yet, Ramtha exemplifies intense emotions to a degree that many students are kept upon a hamster wheel, or a rollercoaster. They have given their power away, their uniqueness, to the teacher.

The ultimate test, imo, is to transcend the need for Ramtha in one's life, and connect with ourselves, our lives, our loved ones (friends/family), nature, beauty, and richly live each moment, being the best person (with compassion and love toward life) that we can be.

seaallsides, about the animals which store food and JZ taking them as an example how wise they are:
You have to really think about these things, do you know how many animals there are on this earth? and how many animals do store there food, and how many don't do it.....

It's the same thing with the tsunami and the animals, of course there were billions of animals who died, e.g. don't you count insects as animals???
JZ probably read somewhere that some!!! bigger animals (which can be easily seen with the human eye) went to higher ground prior to the tsunami, and she makes a nice story around this how wise animals are etc. and everybody is believing this nonsense!

Thanks for your thoughts watcha. Where was your similar post u mentioned?

I am an animal rights activist, so I have something to say about Ramtha's suggestion to model "animal's" behaviour also. Important point just made in the previous post that there are many, many species of animals including insects. Every animal has there own characteristics, instincts, and behaviours. One cannot group all animals together to assume that they all behave the same way like fleeing from an earthquake. Also, if we draw other behaviours from some animal species like killing and raping, then we have a model much less desirable to make our moral decisions from.

Many people who take the muscles from animals to eat as food assume it is morally acceptable to do so because other animals do it too, like lions. However, lions are also known to kill baby cubs sometimes or to rape. I do not recommend making your own moral decisions based on what other species of animals do for their survival. A lion has no choice about what they eat but we do. We can live successfully and healthfully without animal corpses or their secretions. I do not eat animals for the very same reasons I would never eat my dog or a child.

Animals
Sorry, I was thinking of squirrels saving nuts for the coming winter. I certainly didnt mean to imply anything more. Ill learn to be more clear next time!!

"The ultimate test, imo, is to transcend the need for Ramtha in one's life, and connect with ourselves, our lives, our loved ones (friends/family), nature, beauty, and richly live each moment, being the best person (with compassion and love toward life) that we can be. "

Beautifully and simply stated.

Ahh...

Some fresh air..
from the Garden of the Gods..

chuckle..

David

VP,

I don't know exactly where my posts are, along that line. I've posted that viewpoint more than a few times, though, over the last year or so. It just seems obvious to me, even when I was One Of Them, that we are all so "addicted" to Ramtha and what s/he said, rather than what we felt inside. We were told not to trust what we felt because it was just old chemical programming, which would lead us astray based only on past experiences. I struggled with the consensus viewpoint that "Ramtha knows what's best for you.", which was the rationalization to justify in their minds, the forms of abuse that go on there. I could not go along with that. I got into a somewhat heated conversation with a number of current students at an event, over that issue. It was a wine ceremony, after Ramthim-her verbally chastised quite a few people, even threatening some of the fat ladies that they'd be dead in six months from their obesity, etc., etc. Who the hell is JZ to talk about anyone else being overweight, anyway ? Nothing against fat people, but it's hypocritical for sure.

A student said to me, "Don't you believe your teacher knows what's best?"

I couldn't answer at that moment. A few hours later, those words still ringing in my ears, I realized...the answer was a resounding NO. I rather prefer my own choices - be they mistakes, or correct, as proven in their outcomes.

At least then, if I mess something up, it's a mistake I can be in ownership of, not the product of external influence upon my brain because I was too much of a wimp to make my own decisions in life and I had to do what Ramthim-her told me to do.

There is a woman in school (I assume she's still current), a long time student...who spent many years doing astrological readings. I listened to Ramthim-her criticize that woman's WORK, for years. Then, a few years ago, he screamed at her that she didn't listen to him and was still doing those readings. He told her if she did not stop, he was going to bring her down. Do you know - she stopped doing astrological readings...now how pathetic is that? If R tells people to get married and have kids...they usually follow suit. How archaic ??? Arranged marriages ??? STOP already ! This is how far gone students can be. I can't imagine marrying someone unless I loved them and wanted to be with them and vice versa. He talked about breaking up marriages because the woman or man should really be with a different partner ! For a while, I had some fear about that. No way in hell was he going to make that sort of decision for me.

Okay, I'm off of that tangent for now....

They are just all puppets on a Ramthim-her string...it's sad. Chasing carrots that dangle in front of them.

Hey Watcha,

Well thanks for writing it all again for me! Agree with everything u say. I am benefiting for the sake of personal healing by reading posts here. after my appetite for learning about the "other side" is satisfied, i'll move on. I stumbled across EMF when I did a google search for "Ramtha skeptics", thinking to myself "There must be some stuff available that disagrees". Had no idea that was a discussion board and support website for exiters. That's really great!

If your life is worth living, it's worth recording. I recommend you keep a copy of all you posts here by copying them onto microsoft word. That way u can also repost them when you get a similar question that requires an answer you've already gone into detail with before. I do this for my animal rights writing on the discussion forum at ISawEarthlings.com about a powerful movie. Writing on discussion boards that you connect with at the heart level is good for your soul and a bit like writing "Dear Diary" entries. I am never motivated to write in my diary because it's just one way. I keep my emails and posts as diary entries.

VP

VP, thank YOU for your suggestions.