Another example, this one from the net..A man writes

More blaming the victim.Conservative Nathaniel Blake at Human Events Online links positively to John Derbyshire’s post, then writes that the students at Virginia Tech should feel “heartily ashamed” for not acting more bravely:

College classrooms have scads of young men who are at their physical peak, and none of them seems to have done anything beyond ducking, running, and holding doors shut. Meanwhile, an old man hurled his body at the shooter to save others.

Something is clearly wrong with the men in our culture. Among the first rules of manliness are fighting bad guys and protecting others: in a word, courage. And not a one of the healthy young fellows in the classrooms seems to have done that. …

Like Derb, I don’t know if I would live up to this myself, but I know that I should be heartily ashamed of myself if I didn’t. Am I noble, courageous and self-sacrificing? I don’t know; but I should hope to be so when necessary.

Digg It! April 17, 2007 3:30 pm | Comment (228)

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Posted by Nico April 17, 2007 3:30 pm

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*dm,
Thank you for articulating the heart of the matter. What is going on at RSE is difficult to grasp and occurs on different levels. Understanding and being able to hold onto the understanding can be slippery, really slippery.

But it has to be done. We have to understand where we've been and how we got there. And we have to be able to endure what is revealed. And we have to hold onto our integrity, whatever that means for each of us as individuals.

We can't give up, we've got to keep going, we have to find our way. There's too much at stake not to.

Keep talking denotes, just keep talking.

And thanks, you can't imagine how badly I need to hear your voice.

For *denotes meaning from EyesWideOpen

Consent requires sobriety. Only person who is cognizant and whose intellectual and emotional faculties are intact can give valid consent. A drunk person cannot give consent. A man of honor, a man of integrity, a man who is doing his job of providing a safe and secure environment, a “Real” man would not have sex with a drunk woman who had not previously, sober, given consent. Most of the sex that occurred during wine ceremonies was probably not consensual.

There is a possible defense called "Reasonable presumption of consent", where two people have been engaged in a long term sexual relationship...however, that clearly does not apply in the cases cited on this forum as having occured at wine ceremonies at the ranch.