As anyone who has had even a minor flirtation with the "Ramtha" teaching, knows that being a "victim" is pretty much the nadir of human existence within world view of the RSE student.

Not only does being a victim reveal your unenlightened, low life status. It communicates all kinds of embarrassing things about you and your lack of devotion to the RSE "disciplines".

Could it be that the ONE thing so heavily demonized by the school happens to be the lifes blood of the organization?

Could it be that the one thing you MUST be to stay in the school is the very thing that you are taught is the worst thing possible to be?

Could it be that the school has a vested interest in you hating and rejecting yourself?

The real self, that is. The one who is right here and now.

Not the "fantasy self" that will emerge triumphant when you have done your disciplines sufficiently.

The one right here and now. The self that desereves to be lied to, cheated, yelled at and sometimmes punched in the name of enlightenment.

That one.

This is a classic manipulation to deter people from examining the motives and actions of those in whom they have invested money time and trust: You can see the dynamic in all phases of life from the personal to the more impersonal arena of business.

But all great con artists know one thing: EVERYTHING is personal. If you can merge the business agenda of a person with their personal agenda, and get them invested , you can con them into doing whatever you want.

Here is how that breaks down.

Defining the terms:

from the dictionary:

Victim: a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency

The word victim takes on another definition in psychological terms describing a person who is "playing the victim" that is, using their suffering or the fact of their injury to gain leverage OVER another person into MANIPULATING another person into doing things they otherwise might not do.

Speaking in psychological terms a victim is an individual who CHOOSES to relinquish their own power to another in order to avoid responsibility and accountability for their own life.

People who are PLAYING being a victim are different from people who ARE victims. A victim is simply someone who has suffered an injury. A manipulative victim uses the wrong to manipulate others.

What distinguishes a victim in the purest sense [of having suffered an injury] from that of a victim who manipulates with their suffering is not the fact of the injury it is how an individual responds to that injury.

Say hypothetically, you are in a "school" that purports to transform your life for the better, offering enlightenment and a whole lot more if you just "work hard" and do what you are told. Say for the sake of example that this doesn't happen. You don't achieve the results, no matter how hard you work or how dedicated you are.

Say there are "red flags" you have been working overtime not to notice and justify.

Despite the grandiose promises, you get poorer, rather than richer. You get more narrow rather than gain a sense of expansiveness. You get angrier and more frustrated rather than experiencing a sense of balance and peace. You become filled with fear and self loathing because you cannot live up to the promises of the school.

You might start to wonder if there is something wrong with you.

But do you wonder if maybe there was something wrong with the promise of the school? Is that something you can freely entertain and discuss with other students without reprisal?

Here is the fork in the road.

There is something wrong with you or there is something wrong with the organization.

Yes, it is possible you are not applying the teachings correctly. In which case, there MUST be SOMEONE who has mastered the teachings as DEMONSTRATED BY THE EXAMPLE OF THEIR BEING rather than simply the words the use.

What? There isn't anyone remotely like that? Does everyone seem as depleted and drained and confused as you are? That might be a clue that the fault is not in you but in the PROMISE of the hypothetical school.

Rather than realize that "hey this promise doesn't make sense, nobody can promise these things and they clearly are not attainable at this school"

No, you say instead "there is something wrong with ME, not the school. The fact that I can't find ANYONE who embodies the promise of the school is not the schools fault by MY fault"

Why?

Because you have become a victim [ a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency ] and you refuse to realize it.

The school has instilled a sense of shame in you for even thinking their might be something wrong with the promise of the school. So, like a good student [and victim] you turn it inward on yourself and judge yourself inappropriately rather than the appropriately judging the claims and motives of the school.

You were lied to and conned by people who have deranged personal and financial agendas into believing that by following them and doing what they told you to do that you would develop metaphysical power and enlightenment.

The promise of our hypothetical school is in fact a lie. The school and the people who teach in it has no interest in giving you real tools for metaphysical growth OR their own psychological limitation and lust for power are GREATER than the desire to provide you with something real.

If someone tells you they are going to teach you how to play Chess in 4 days and NOBODY in the class learns how to play chess, chances are their is something wrong with the teacher.

The same thing applies to Remote Viewing, Psychic Phenomena etc. If nobody is learning it, look to the teacher rather than the student for the problem.

If you have been lied to, shamed and deceived into acting against your own best interests with grandiose claims of supernatural powers that will be yours if you just hand over your money, self respect, trust and time, you have been injured.

You are a victim.

If you refuse to realize it and make the changes you need to make you will remain a victim.

The people who remain in our hypothetical school who are suffering a diminished sense of self are being wronged by the inappropriate promise of the school.

THEY ARE ALREADY THE THING THEY HAVE BEEN TAUGHT TO HATE: A VICTIM

And the reason they have been taught to hate victims more than anything on the planet?

Because the hypothetical school RELIES on them STAYING victims so they continue to pony up the money and the adoration the leaders of the school NEED.

DM

Victim.........

A "victim" is one who expects another to do their work for them because they themselves cannot do the work themselves.

When one allows another to "lead", then the one becomes a follower and is subject to influence by the other.

When this is subconsciously agreed upon by the one, then there will automatically be a polarity created, and thus we have victims and tyrants feeding off each other. One cannot survive without the other.

The problem with continual students going back to RSE is the fact that, if one keeps going back, then one strengthens the bond between victim and tyrant,the polarity, of the one who knows and one who doesn't want to know, because if they truly wanted to know they would not continue to go back and reinforce the one that does know.

This is the survival mechanism that continues to keep RSE activated and consuming.

And it is disrupting the entire spectrum of healing on this planet and invites a "collapse" to occur as a "fix-it".

Individuals, Rebels and Players are who will make a real difference on this earth. Not ones who continue to try to "out do" the other in the name of trying to save another from themselves.

Those who play this ballgame of saving another only invite a collapse to occur.

""""If someone tells you they are going to teach you how to play Chess in 4 days and NOBODY in the class learns how to play chess, chances are their is something wrong with the teacher.""""


This is hilarious! So true...

Absolutely. I remember my nephew (now grown) while in HS having a particular math teacher, and the entire class getting D's or below. Was it the students? No way. It was the teacher, who was ill-prepared to teach the subject. My nephew graduated a math major from college, with honors.

RSE teaches you to blame yourself, "accept responsibility for yourself." Well, of course, when YOU ARE responsible for something occurring. What about when you're not? (RSE response, of course, "you created your reality."

If that were so, RSE wouldn't exist.

"Because you have become a victim (a person who suffers from a destructive action) and you refuse to realize it."

"THEY ARE ALREADY THE THING THEY HAVE BEEN TAUGHT TO HATE - A VICTIM."

There are many hooks at RSE but none as confusing as this one.

Rule #1 Anyone who questions or complains about anything is a victim.

Rule #2 No victims allowed.

Rule #3 If you leave RSE you are a victim.

Jz-pretending-to-be-ramtha plays directly into the shame game. It's a beauty.

If a "student" leaves RSE s/he is a victim and victims are BAD. If a "student" stays and asks questions or complains s/he is a victim and victims are BAD.

So if a person stays they ask no questions and if a person leaves they ask no questions...and we know that her victim strategy works because how many thousands of people have been ripped off by jz and done nothing about it????

This is mind control in action...

I am SOOO with you on this one Eyes Wide Open.
You have put a convoluted practice very straight and simple.

Re: ... a "victim" is one who expects another to do their work for them because they themselves cannot do the work themselves....one allows another to "lead"...the follower ..is subject to influence ..subconsciously agreed upon.."

The agreement is BEYOND subconscious agreement: all students registering for the BC follow-up (1,800?) had to stand in long lines wrapping around the arena for hours to 'renew' their WRITTEN contract with JZINC. Mr. Not-So-(w)Right wrote a cute letter trying to explain the need for re-upping process. (what really happened? maybe their computer systems crashed & data not backed up, maybe agreements not legal if too old..?)

But, an additional NEW clause was added to the 20+ existing clauses on 3 legal size sheets covering 'teaching' the material to others.

So, people SIGN & AGREE to be victim in perpetuity: "You can NEVER know how to teach this...this dependence here is til 'way after JZ is dead."
[Crossover from Rambo: 'If you even THINK about using it..I'll BRING YOU DOWN!!!] And all the 'processing time' adds a concentration camp type stress, gnawing at yur innards. ("can I really live up to this?? JZ can be REALLY vicious..Dr. Joe..) ick.

whew. thank god for those who went before me, this site.

"But, an additional NEW clause was added to the 20+ existing clauses on 3 legal size sheets covering 'teaching' the material to others."

I really don't understand how these so called RSE teachings are "leagally protected".RSE teaches NOTHING NEW. We all know that these techniques can be found in various religious practices. Did her lawyers do ANY research? Remote viewing is not new...I read a book about it long before I heard of RSE. Zen archery...ibid. Levitation? I saw TM practitioners "bounce" over thirty years ago. The wine ceremony is a first class *******isation of "Holy Communion"....of course there is R's story about him and his so-called master hanging out smoking pipes and drinking. Yeah? Thirty-five thousand years ago the art of wine-making didn't exist. I remember Ledwith talking about wine in the Egyptian tombs as if the great quantities has some mystical significance....simple, they liked to drink!!! Gee , I guess that makes the French, Germans, and Italians "enlightened" peoples....not!

The original poster is happy with RSE. I'm SURE there are people who are VERY HAPPY in RSE. Remember there were some very happy Nazis too. It worked for them. Their lives were good, they made money, their families were secure. They bought it hook, line and sinker. One just needs to see Leni Reifensthal's "Triumph of the Will". It is enough to make one's eyes cross. Oh, by the way, Joseph Goebbels used American advertising techniques....Bush & Co. use "folksy" propaganda LOL! Greg Simmons, Joseph Goebbels, Mr. Rove ...same breed of cat!

Bright, talented people are attracted to the RSE sort of thing because they can accept Ramtha or the idea of a channeled entity as a possibility or even a "probability" give the complexity of "life" in the universe. But enlightenment is really not driven by intellectual ability. It is a life condition. So JZ can have people with a pile of degrees "teaching". It doesn't mean they've acheived that life condition.

This is a quote from Hermetic teacher Franz Bardon, who by the way felt that this knowledge should be freely given.

"Knowledge, Courage, Volition and Silence are the four pillars of the foundation upon which rests Solomon's Temple, the microcosm and the macrocosm upon which the sacred science of magic is built. Every magician must have these fundamental attributes, which are in accordance with the four elements, if he wishes to attain the highest, the ultimate, in this sacred science" - Franz Bardon

Notice the words "sacred science". Also notice the word "silence". The core of "mastership" is based in a strong foundation of balanced life.

My heart goes out to those sincere seekers who have been deceived.

So JZ can have people with a pile of degrees "teaching". all the teachers i know have only phony degrees.if surfing the internet is serious sientific research i might be a dr too.beeing an apointed teacher only means you r conform with the rse salespitch.

>>Bright, talented people are attracted to the RSE sort of thing because they can accept Ramtha or the idea of a channeled entity as a possibility or even a "probability" give the complexity of "life" in the universe. But enlightenment is really not driven by intellectual ability. It is a life condition.<<

I just wanted to highlight that part again, and add, as others have on different posts on this board, that it is also directly related to one's relationships with other human beings and how you treat them and yourself... Kindness, compassion, empathy and understanding.

Is there anyone that works at RSE or goes to the RSE as a student who is not, at some level or degree, AFRAID of "Ramtha" or JZ Knight?

Is there one person who does not fear them to some degree and to what degree does that fear control them?

I think it makes sense to be afraid of people like JZ who are untreated alcholic/sociopaths with a lust for power.

However, when you stay under their thumb and don't extricate yourself EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE AFRAID, you stay one of her victims.

Agree?

This is just my observation. Those who live in Yelm and
near the school appear to be much more 'afraid' and
invested. Those who didn't move are either thinking about
moving, are planning to move, keep changing their minds,
or decided it doesn't matter where they are-they choose
to not live underground and whatever catastrophes occur,
they go with the flow, as in "so be it." LOL.

My observation only, and I in no manner have seen the
entire student body; the most I've seen is 1000 at once,
in audience for "the great and wonderful" JZ?JR?

LOL - your comment about "R" "What be a Safeway?"
People learning to speak English experience something
a little odd sometimes when they first come to the
US. The phrase, "thanks a lot," for example, is taken
very literally. They believe you are thanking them, and
not the opposite. So, bearing this in mind, "what be a
Safeway?" In my experiences, it would be interpreted
at least initially, as a "safe way' to do something, or a "safe place" or a
"safe path." Same thing when native English speakers
learn other languages. Our attempts are clumsy at first,
and we don't speak in the manner the locals do.

Advertising here causes a problem for some, too. Example:
a junk-food product advertised as "good for you" might
be taken literally, just because it is written in an ad.

My experience - I'm sure others have different experiences.

Denotes,
To follow up on your comment, fear can generate a compulsion to hold someone in a dysfunctional relationship. The intensity of the emotion generates a dark bond.

Think "deer caught in headlights."