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INTERVIEW WITH DANIELLE GRAHAM
NW Frontier Research Institute
September 28, 2006
by Louise SaintOnge, MastersConnection, LLC
Transcribed by Bertha Rainen
MC: In less than a year you have taken a dream from concept to peer-reviewed published material, presentations at major scientific conferences,
to founding the NW Frontier Research Institute, a non-profit global research organization, to being invited to China. The story of how you began this amazing journey into the world of science is so interesting. Can you give us
a brief summary of when and how that happened, what your source of inspiration was?
Danielle: Well, saying that in less than a year this occurred is like saying to the professional musician that after twenty years of practice that one day they were an overnight success. And that is not really the case, you know. The fact is that I became a student of Ramtha®'s School of Enlightenment in 1988, and I wrestled for a good part of fifteen-sixteen years to understand what it was my teacher was trying to teach me, and wrestling with myself during disciplines and coming to terms with this extraordinary knowledge that I have been given. At a certain point, I realized that I had a really great change of life approaching with my children coming of age and moving on with their lives. I recognized that that was an opportune time for me to also review my life and use that energy to do something wonderful.
It was about the time when JZ made her remarkable healing. She started talking about her understanding of the neurons and we began the Neighborhood WalkSM It clicked for me. I’d love to say that it was overnight, but it was actually the product of many, many years of training and discipline to finally accept instantaneous change. My focus on research came from the disappointment of not having seen previous RSE-based scientific research really reflect the heart of the teachings. The reason became obvious to me: these scientists didn’t do the disciplines to gain their own experiences. They didn’t integrate or attempt to integrate this incredible knowledge into their lives, so how could their research reflect an understanding that they themselves have not experienced? I made the choice then, to set out on a journey to do it myself.
So the timeline that you speak of really is the timeline between the invitation by JZ, via Debbie Christie, to collect the data, and then putting myself through the rigorous process of understanding the data, accepting the invitation to publish the data, getting the abstract accepted, the first draft accepted, going through this incredible peer-review process and then having the paper accepted, in less than a year!
MC: You made this presentation to Blue College in 2006, and there you really made it clear how unique the science that we are doing here is, in the world of science. For those who haven’t seen your presentation or those who would like a review, give us a summary of the research and its uniqueness compared to what we may confuse it with in the world of science we may be more familiar with.
Danielle: What we did is simply set up a bunch of instruments in the arena during the 2005 BC event and recorded the various kinds of data: Light data, geomagnetic data, electromagnetic data and occasionally force-plate data, and we observed the changing values while we collected. There was never any intent to intentionally affect the instruments. For example, when someone sat down on the force plate, the intent wasn’t to directly affect gravity. They were just sitting on the plate doing their discipline.
MC: I just want to stop you for a moment to give a brief definition of what this force plate is for people who might not know what that is.
Danielle: The force plate is a scientific sensor, and basically what it tracks is the variances in mass compared to a constant acceleration towards the center of the Earth, which we call gravity. How fast we are accelerating towards the center of the Earth determines our weight.
So, while they sat on the force plate doing their discipline, I watched the variances in the data that was being collected and I noticed that as the person went into certain stages of the disciplines, the data stream changed and correlated exactly with what the person was doing. That is significant to me. Now, for someone that has not studied or experienced the disciplines, they are not going to see it has a correlate to anything because how would they know what the changes correlate to?
MC: They just see that it changes.
Danielle: Yes, they just see some changes and, you know, it must be the wind; maybe we had an earthquake or something. It’s got to be something else out there. All of those arguments are valid in a reductionistic world, but while collecting this early experimental data, these correlating changes meant something to me. It gave me reason to keep collecting data and to keep testing that data against other variables so that I could see if it was true over a multiple of different circumstances.
MC: So what is it, again, the uniqueness of it as compared to other scientific research studies that we may be more familiar with? I know you talked about how people will try to put it into a parapsychological context, this whole human body, environment interface.
Danielle: The uniqueness is the respective training and perspectives from which we are viewing our world as researchers. Western society generally, and science specifically, trains scientists to see the world as externalized from themselves. By contrast, we are taught that we ARE our environment. The distinction is HUGE when it comes to viewing the world as well as viewing simple research data.
I have been well trained to understand that I am very much a part of my environment. Therefore the analysis and the reporting of this data reflects my training. I have been trained to think this way by Ramtha®, and science does not yet operate from this fundamental understanding.
My observation about the other kinds of relational research going on is that none of the current scientists approach their research from the perspective that I have chosen, to show and discuss this experimental data. Psychic research focuses on the intentional manipulation of an item, an object or a field. That's not what our research data is demonstrating. We weren’t intentionally trying to affect the geomagnetic field or the gravitational field. These environmental fluctuations were by-products of our activities collectively at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment which is very consistent with Ramtha®'s teaching.
MC: So you have taken Ramtha®'s teachings deep into your life with a vigor and passion that is truly inspiring and a glorious tribute to the Great Work. You are not a scientist, yet you have accomplished the extraordinary in a field that is laden with strict protocols, rules and a culture that is conservative at best. What are some of those typical protocols and how were you able to bypass them? Really, some of your stories are about the magic that occurred.
Danielle: Well, I am trained at Ramtha®'s School of Enlightenment to hold a focus, and what I have come to understand is that if I am truly focused on something that doesn’t already exist, and it is not my experience yet, then that experience has to come from somewhere, and the environment from which the new comes is chaos. It is the transformation of the old into the new reality. So in my training I have learned to hold a focus and that if it is outside of what I already know, then chaos will ensue. And holding that focus in the midst of that chaos, is the process by which matter reorganizes itself.
So what I did is I held the focus of the publication of this paper. Then I worked very hard at writing it to its rigor, matching the standards of what was required by the organization that I was writing the paper for, and held the focus and held the focus, and worked at it, and rewrote the paper, and held the focus and held the focus. And many, many steps along the way, I should have just quit, you know. No, it is rejected. Well, you are supposed to stop. No, the data is not rigorous. No, you are supposed to stop. Well, I didn’t. And then voila, I received the email that it had been accepted for publication.
MC: Well, the point that it was accepted, that whole story is interesting unto itself.
Danielle: Well, for me the bottom line is not to pay attention to what is going on in the environment, to keep holding the focus. It doesn’t matter if they say yes or no. That was a very great lesson for me, not to let how it appears in the world override the picture in my own mind. So it didn’t matter what was going on.
MC: What are some of the things that appeared that you chose not to let it matter what was going on?
Danielle: You’ve got to remember that some of those things that I chose not to matter were a product of the fact that I was so ignorant as far as the traditional training of the scientists. I didn’t know that I wasn’t supposed to pay attention to them. I didn’t know that when the American Institute of Physics says, “No,” that that means no. I just figured it just means keep going, you know. That possibility had not been trained out of me by the scientific process, the humiliating process that science students are put through. I call it a hazing.
MC: It’s a hazing, but it is also the potential devastation of creativity.
Danielle: Right, and I don’t even want to judge that process. You get your undergraduate degree and get your Ph.D., and then you do your post-grad work and then maybe after you have done all this and you have done some more years of research, then maybe you can do some original research. That is pretty much the way one is trained.
MC: A kind of right of passage.
Danielle: And then you are a scientist, you know. I didn’t go that way. That was not how I was trained. I used the academic training I was involved in to learn how to actually publish a paper.
MC: Yes, but your advisors were not able to go where you were able to go because they haven’t had the training that you have had- the training of the mind. You have been bold enough and strong enough that even though those who are the scientists, those who follow a rigorous protocol, could not see your vision and your passion and wanted to steer you in a certain way of doing things, you chose to continue with your focus against so many odds, and that is truly inspiring.
Danielle: Well, there is an aspect of compassion, too. How could they know what I knew? Now, when I first began in the academic environment, I didn’t know what they knew or didn’t know. I only knew what I knew. The more I insisted on utilizing what I knew, the greater the divide I saw between what I knew and what my professors knew. But that is not a good or a bad thing. That is just how they understand the world, and I understand the world differently. Yes, it is very difficult to stand up and live your truth in a world that has not been trained in this wonderful knowledge that I have learned at the Ramtha® School. I did not buckle and say, “Oh, you are right. What I have learned for the last twenty years is not correct. It’s not the traditional scientific way so what I know is not valid?” I didn’t accept that.
Danielle: I accepted that the model that I have learned from Ramtha® is my model, and if that is true then I would need to do what I have been taught to do, which is hold my focus and make it through the chaos. It was very difficult -- and so what if it is difficult?
MC: You are the visionary and the founder of the NW Frontier Research Institute, which has now become an official non-profit research organization. I know it has taken an enormous amount of energy and effort to accomplish this. How did that come together and who are the people involved?
Danielle: The organization was actually a blessing from the contentious environment that I faced academically. Because my academic sponsors were not willing to support me through the publication of my paper, I was still obliged to have my paper be affiliated with some organization. If I wasn’t affiliated academically, and I certainly wasn’t affiliated industrially, then my options were very narrow.
So my option was to be affiliated though a private research institute. I had to learn what that really meant – to create a non-profit corporation. I had to understand who I would be in the midst of that organization. Basically, I was having to stop being an independent, autonomous do-whatever-I-want-whenever-I-want researcher, and I had to become an individual who was responsible to a governance Board. It took me a long time to be willing to do that. But when it finally came down to it, either I was done with the research because I was not willing to give up who and what I was, or I was willing to change and become part of something greater than me, and create something that was greater than me. Thus, I created the NW Frontier Research Institute.
To do that, I had to create a Board of Directors. I chose from the people I knew that had great passion and love for this research, that were great supporters, both in terms of time and energy as well as scientific advisory. I chose people that just loved what the research was about and loved the Great Work.
We are all students of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment. Some of them are teachers at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment. Some of them are business people. Some of them are parents. One of the most extraordinary people that came to the table was a woman in the school who has been directing the governance of non-profit institutes for thirty years. She brings a level of expertise to help all of us make this an undeniably accountable and legitimate organization.
MC: And you have said, too, again, how much magic there has been around the way that the group has come together and the unique skills that each one brings. You have also talked about how interesting meetings are..
Danielle: Being a Board member of a non-profit organization means that you are not getting paid. Everybody who comes together to be on this Board is not there because they are being paid. They are there because they want to be, so they bring their strength of character, their strength of wisdom. They bring their knowledge to the Board. So you’ve got a dozen powerful gods bringing their own ideas, and when we get together in working groups, there’s contention. There’s chaos. I've observed this in multiple meetings and work sessions and realized that the magic is that the contention happens, the chaos ensues; there are ideas and emotions flying everywhere. Then all of a sudden, magically out of that, the end result appears. I have come to understand that that is how gods get together and create.
MC: Greater than one would have thought.
Danielle: It is just magic.
MC: Just as you are an inspiration to the Board, they also inspire you and that is the mutual exponential magic that occurs. You have drawn into your life an array of passionate, wise and intense people.
Danielle: I am so inspired by such a passionate group of people who so willingly give so much. That is an inspiration to me.
MC: And this has been continuous and ongoing even before the Board was officially formed. That is, again, the greater than
Danielle: People send me checks in the mail with notes saying, “I love what you are doing.” They send me beautiful cards, you know,"You inspire me." "You've helped me create for myself.” I can’t even go into town or go into the post office or go into the grocery store without somebody stopping and wanting to talk about the research. Isn’t that wonderful that we are creating dynamically in the world that is really a part of all of us because we are part of the data?
MC: What, then is the mission of the NW Frontier Research Institute?
Danielle: Let me get the brochure. Let me read it to you:
“The mission of the NW Frontier Research Institute is to actualize the vision, which is to
simply reveal and further discover the nature of the fundamental human environment
interface, to generate and disseminate groundbreaking research data, establish a
world-class research facility, and to develop our global alliances with researchers and
philanthropists, institutions and organizations.”
Danielle: Our mission is actually to work in the world creating more research and working with other researchers that support the fundamental aspects of what it is we have learned at the Ramtha School of Enlightenment, that we are our environment. We are the creators. How that is supported scientifically is the mission of NW Frontier Research Institute. We are not teachers. We don’t teach Ramtha®'s models. We don’t disseminate the teachings of the school. What we do is design and develop research data that supports what it is we have come to understand.
MC: Beautiful. What is your long vision? What is your vision into the future, Danielle, not the NW Frontier Research Institute, which you are rather inextricably combined with? You have talked about what you envision in five hundred years from now. You know, you really do think in the future, just as we are taught. You are an example of that.
Danielle: How I understand it for myself is this: that if I have a vision, let’s say for instance that the foundation of all of science is Ramtha®'s model, then I have to accept that that is not my current experience. If that is not my current experience and I create my reality, then I am the one that has to change to see that reality materialize. I am the one that goes through the process of becoming something different. When what is present in front of me is that the foundation of all science is Ramtha®'s model, and that is my environment, then I will have changed to experience that dream.
MC: So beautiful. What is your greatest challenge?
Danielle: I think my greatest challenge is perhaps no different than most people’s greatest challenge, and that is to press myself every moment outside of my comfort zone; to press myself outside of acceptance and to press myself into the unknown. To do this I must challenge my image. I am inspired by Ramtha®, what he said many years ago -- he said he wrestled with his image until the very moment he left. So that one point that was horrifying to have to deal with at first has kind of reformed into - "this is how it is". Every time I sit and do my cards, or every time I do any discipline to train myself to keep doing the Great Work, I have to confront this nasty thing called my image. The greatest challenge is to want to do that again and again and again and again.
MC: The current exciting news after all of this is your invitation to China. What is the story behind this? -- remarkable.
Danielle: As I was confronting the reality that how I was trained to think at Ramtha®'s School of Enlightenment, Western science didn’t think that way. The horrifying realization that my research wasn’t even in the realm of possibility in Western science was very discouraging for me. Then I had runners and my runners were that this type of research, based on the researcher themselves exploring the human potential, had been ongoing in China for quite some time.
MC: How did you find out about that?
Danielle: Through a book called China’s Super Psychics. Actually, it was first introduced when James Flick read from Eric Davis’ Teleportation Physics Study during the Blue College Event in 2005, in which I was also recording the original data. He read a section from Dr. Eric Davis’ paper.
MC: Who eventually gave a talk at the School.
Danielle: Right. James read parts of Eric Davis' paper that talked about the teleportation of these Chinese psychics. Later, when I was faced with being asked to reduce the data in such a way that I knew would destroy the essence of that Blue College data, and was very discouraged, is when the Chinese Super Psychics book came my way. I began to read about how that research was actually established in China through a very famous rocket scientist who had trained and spent a whole career of developing technology here in the United States and how, when he was deported to China during the McCarthy Era, China had him pretty much reorganize China’s entire science. At some point, he was given an audience with these psychics. After watching demonstrations of teleportation, he stated then "if this is true, everything we understand in science is wrong".
MC: What is his name? And the special name given to these super psychics?
Danielle: The scientist’s name is Dr. Tsien Hsue-shen. He is a very famous man.
In China, these psychics are known as EHFs or Exceptional Human Functions. These Exceptional Human Functions develop their minds just as we do - through discipline. They are honored and respected. They are considered national treasures. It becomes their job to do what they do. I was frequency specific with these people, that they would base all of their research on the discipline of developing human ability. I was deeply inspired that somewhere on the planet, that someone was doing research that was relational to my own.
Several RSE students made unsuccessful attempts at trying to find these researchers on my behalf. It was discouraging. So it would be the invitation to our third conference by a theoretical physicist at Princeton. It was the 25th Anniversary meeting of the Society of Scientific Exploration. They had invited us to present our RSE data. They had also invited one of these EHF scientists to attend this conference also. I was like oh, my gosh.
MC: It’s beautiful.
Danielle: Beautiful, beautiful moment. So I asked immediately for contact information but learned he would not be attending. We initiated introductions and I started sharing my research and how I would very much love to talk with them. He invited me to Beijing. I knew that RSE had an event scheduled in Hong Kong in November so I asked him if November would be a good time. He said that would be a very good time. So we began the process of getting ready to do this trip to China. In the meantime, we have opened quite a communication between their researchers and our researchers, me. Yeah, it’s just me at this point, isn’t it? They are very excited about us coming over.
The other thing that I think would be of interest to your readers is that in China there are seven hundred advanced psychics, advanced EHFs that work in the labs generating rigorous science data. Each psychic is assigned their own researcher. So there are seven hundred psychics doing research with seven hundred scientists.
Danielle: And they have been doing this for thirty years. Can you imagine the incredible data that they have collected that has not been available to us; that somehow, someway, they found my simple little paper and my simple attempt to model our ambient fields as a by-product of developing mind to be of enough interest to have invited me over to speak with them?
MC: This truly is extraordinary, Danielle. What do you think you will be doing there? What is the agenda?
Danielle: Well, for me just to be able to speak with scientists that are working in a parallel research intent as I. I am so hungry for that after having suffered the slings and arrows of Western science. I think it is important to note that one of the things we have learned about the Chinese researchers that is similar to one of the very important principles for the NWFRI Board of Directors: Everyone on the NWFRI Board of Directors has to do the experimental work, so they can truly support our research from a place of experience, not just philosophy. In China, all of their scientists have to do EHF disciplines. They are required to develop their mind and the EHFs are required to take science courses, so that collaboratively they work together, understanding each other better, by studying what each other does.
to be continued....
"I have been trained to think this way by Ramtha®, and science does not yet operate from this fundamental understanding."
speaks volumes, in and of itself right there.
We have read an interview with one of the psychics who talks about her life. She talks about how hard it is to make time to do her disciplines being a Mom and doing all of her responsibilities. Here is this woman with advanced teleportation skills, wrestling with similar issues that we wrestle with here. But unlike here, in China, it is her job. So after she sends her kids to school and makes breakfast and does the laundry and sweeps the floor, you know, her job is to develop her mind and to do what it is she is asked to do.
MC: So when you just said five weeks away, I was really thrown off because that is amazing.
Danielle: It’s upon us.
MC: As a non-profit organization you must rely on the focus of your incredible mind and the generous support of people, and you will be seeking funding through grants and such as time goes on, as the non-profit Institute becomes, I would say, more mature. But right now you need financial support for the China trip, and we, the RSE community, can help you to realize that goal. Again, it is something that benefits all of us. I would love to see us all gather together to support you in any way that we can to do that.
Danielle: We want to generate $25,000 for this trip. We have two translators and one documenter, an entourage of four. We will be in China for 2 weeks on this first trip.
The beautiful thing about all of this research is that it couldn’t have happened without everybody anyway. The data itself was collected from the student body and the student body has supported the research to get it out into the world. That support has been just extraordinary. Being a non-profit research organization also gives everyone the satisfaction of a mutual reward, meaning that as they economically support the research, they get to receive benefits from that in tax deductions, etc. We are just about to take that next step to be prepared to receive sponsorships from outside the community in terms of grants and corporate sponsorships. But at this time, during our little first year that we are taking our research out into the world, it is being locally supported and locally sponsored.
We have created beautiful brochures about the China trip and sponsorship support that will be available for people to pick up at the RSE during our follow-up events. It includes a coupon that they can send in their love and their sponsorship.
MC: We are really happy to have the MastersConnection be a voice for you out there in the RSE international. How can people contribute?
Danielle: Donations can be mailed to NW Frontier Research Institute at P.O. Box 2171, Yelm, Washington 98597. They can also make payments through PayPal, firstname.lastname@example.org. If they need to make other kinds of arrangements- if someone is out of the country and they need to make a direct deposit into the account, they need to call me at 360-458-9446 and arrange that.
MC: Whether it is $5 or $5,000 or $10,000, $50,000, or whatever it is- it all is a wonderful gift.
Danielle: Right. And the other thing to remember is that whatever is not used for the trip goes into the general operating fund that supports the continuing mission of our research.
MC: …Building a world class research facility, for example.
MC: I am so excited about your trip and can’t wait till you come back. Will we be able to interview you then so you can tell us about it?
MC: Yes? Wonderful. Is there anything you would like to say that I haven’t asked you?
Danielle: I am very excited by what these researchers and what these people who have developed their skills have to offer us as students and how they can help us. As much knowledge as I have been given, as much as I have learned, as many years as I have dedicated of my life, I am not approaching this trip thinking I have got something to teach them, but understanding that what they have achieved and accomplished, that I get to benefit from.
So I am approaching this very humbly, but with great anticipation for what it can contribute to myself personally, to our organization generally, and to the RSE student body on an international level. I think that there are many gifts in China and that as the Marco Polo of RSE science, I hope to bring back more than just a few spices.
MC: Thankyou. Blessings on your journey.
"Donations can be mailed to NW Frontier Research Institute at P.O. Box 2171, Yelm, Washington 98597. They can also make payments through PayPal, email@example.com. If they need to make other kinds of arrangements- if someone is out of the country and they need to make a direct deposit into the account, they need to call me at 360-458-9446 and arrange that."
meaning....the rest of you pay for my food, and rent and trips around the world
I would say we have a JZ in the making...
"Ramtha® is my model"
"I have been trained to think this way by Ramtha®, and science does not yet operate from this fundamental understanding."
and there you have it!!
"Danielle: Well, there is an aspect of compassion, too. How could they know what I knew?"
referring to the idiot scientists, I am sure Stephen Hawkings would be included.
Does she know how ridiculous this all sounds?
You know, there is another way of looking at this.
Madonna (the famed) said, "I never gave up." And who was it that said, "never, never, never give up."
When we're working on something we are heck-bent on doing, is that a "Ramtha (TM)" teaching, or is it just US doing something to make something we wish to achieve occur - just through us and not quantum-hocus-pocus mindbending spin. You want something, you go for it if you're determined. To attribute it to someone's teachings, it could be a parent - go for your dreams, I told my kids, etc.
The thing is, D. takes all of her determination and gives the credit to the great and wonderful "JR." (I'm not saying I agree with her findings etc. at all). But it was her work, and the "R" spin is placed upon it - just like the VHS "Brainwash."
I could be off, but a lot of people who are determined and never give up achieve simply by pursuing and refusing to quit. That's an individual trait, maybe encouraged by others, maybe as a result of environment.
The paraplegic (hope I got that right) who climbed Mt. Everest was determined to do so. Was it because of "Ramtha (TM)"?
Sometimes things occur because we don't give up. Just like JZ's "wealth." Did she "focus" it into being? More likely she plotted and planned and practiced repeatedly - doing it the old-fashioned- elbow-grease human way.
So D., yeah, you did achieve your paper through good old human elbow grease.
I am not saying she did not work in the progress.
But, esp in the beginning, got people to contribute to her cause so she could study, and they could pay her rent (which she rents a place from JZ) and pay for her food.
I was just most amazed at the comment:
"I have been trained to think this way by Ramtha®, and science does not yet operate from this fundamental understanding."
THAT is what blew me away.
Yet, I understand, because I have been there.
Never again, will I think like that.
and I don't mind hard work to achieve what you want....not at all.
I'm with you. I think I should have worded it differently, because I thought about it before, that we do our own things, but here she is giving JR credit for it. How twisted the minds are that when they do something through work, they still give the credit to the great and wonderful OZ, er, Ramtha (TM). She gives credit to this fictional being's teachings for something people do everyday - work. I know you know the value of that, and so do I and many people. You work hard, you "manifest"...