Is there anyone here who:

1) Is an ex-Ramtha student (preferably a student who was in for a long time...the longer the better)
2) lives in the Olympia area
3) Would be willing to meet with me in person and eventually with my girlfriend?

I think I have realized that by far the best thing I could do for my girlfriend is to have her personally talk to an ex-Ramster, on the phone or in person. She is not one for "statistical" type evidence (as demonstrated by her being involved with RSE ) and I think meeting someone who could tell her for a fact all the things I've suspected for months would have the best chance of making an impact.

I'd like someone to tell her

-Why they joined the school
-The main thing that made them leave
-What inconsistancies they noticed while attending
-What things struck them (then or now) as being manipulative, amoral or immoral, or just unsettling.
-How it affected their life and their relationships when they were in RSE
-How it affected those things when they left.
-etc.

If anyone would MAYBE even be willing to do this, just email me (zyxwv543@yahoo.com) and we can talk about details. I would be totally willing to repay the favor in some way.

Thanks!

well good idea but i dont think it works.i would do this but there are for shuremore qualified people on this board here.just let me tell you what you think when you enter rse and decide to go to yelm:i wonder what people r doing more than 5 years in this school.i will make it in 2 years to my faboules wealth.because i can do anything.the breath blew my blocks away i had a big kundaliniexpirience.people who quit?they r loosers there expirience will be irelevant to consider in my way beeing a master.people on emf are whynie victims which try to destroy jz and the school which is the most awsome thing in the world.....and for you it is totaly normal to leave people which will not grow ah evolve with theire partners but well all the ramsters are a big happy familiey when they r locked up on the ranch.the survivalfight to make it too the next event is a different story.i wish you all the best.

what i would do knowing the things i know now and would have a second chance?:i probably would fly in do a beginner.use my learnings and go.in regard to my relationshipp:i would keep my house would let her go.offer to look for the kids but wouldent give her a cent.ye i might be an a......

I will do it.
ask the moderators form my e-mail and phone number.
I would GLADLY do it, before I leave the area.

I also would be willing to do it - altho I don't live in the area, I could talk on the phone or email...
I was there since the early days...lived in rainier and attended RSE 12 years...right in the thick of it
AND because I was never an employee I've never signed anything to keep me from telling all...incidentally, I have been out about 5 yrs now and I really hadn't had a need to expose anyone. I really am not interested in whining and/or revenge...but since finding this forum I have realised the extent of damages and one of the hardest things to let go of is the huge part of my life I spent caught up in RSE. Also I was never much into regretting (you know - purposeful good) So that said I would tell my experience with the hope that I might help other vulnerable ones from wasting too much of their precious lives!! and I do have direct personal experiences with JZ/Ramtha and one "teacher" in particular. Usually it is quite an eye opener just to mention some personal experiences with that mostly highly regarded teacher that will get someone thinking...

zyx:Has your girlfriend asked to speak with someone who has been involved with Ramtha and left? If not – wait until she does. Posters here have given you excellent advice. It took some of us a decade plus to ‘wake up’ and get out of the School – meanwhile there were people in our lives who loved us, anyway, and believed in us – the Who we truly are – and probably believed/trusted in a “Higher Power”. It’s similar to an Alanon thing – take care of yourself, love the ‘addicted’ person and recognize you’re neither responsible for their behavior nor capable of making them change. It was also, I believe very helpful advice that you encourage your partner’s involvement in non Ramtha activities – including a job, hobbies, other interests. Bottom line, battling evil never wins. History has proven that time and time and bloody time again. Blessings to you – yours is not an easy position to be in.

zyx - another thought -- Didn't you say you were a vegan? into an environmentally friendly way of life? What if your girlfriend or someone close to you started to innundate you with info about how stupid and ignorant and worthless your beliefs are? Then tricked you into listening to someone who revealed that having been a vegan they know it is really harmful to your health because they nearly died by eating only veggies and organic food.... You catch my drift -- Whatever is important and feels essential to you - How would you feel if someone went on a campaign to denigrate your position? Would you dig in your heels, become firmer in your convictions? - or say, oh gee whiz thank you for sharing....

If you see a starving bird and you have a big loaf of bread, what would happen if you threw the whole loaf at them? You would frighten them and they would fly away. A better strategy would be to break off small bits of bread, lay them on the grass, stand back, and let the bird come to the bread when it is ready.

If the loaf of bread signifies Knowledge--the knowledge that ex-RSE students have--then wouldn't it be better to leave small "pieces" of knowledge out where the bird could find them?

Meaning that if you live in the same household as an RSE student, and they feel free to leave their books and CDs out, why shouldn't you feel free to print out a FEW posts from this website and leave those out too? If they tape sayings from R/JZ to the mirror, why shouldn't you tape EMF posts to the mirror? If they question this, just say, "This is MY truth." But I wouldn't go overboard or be too "in their face" about this. Would you want someone to confront you about your beliefs and try to talk you out of them? Neither would your SO.

I have friends still in RSE and I NEVER initiate a conversation about their beliefs. Over the years, people who have been READY to question their involvement in RSE have found their way to me, and I answer whatever questions THEY ask about why I left. People have left RSE after talking to me, but they initiated the questioning, not me.

If you become friends with some ex-RSE students and bring them to your home in a natural way, your SO will get to know them and respect them, and see that there is life as a "grand, manifesting god" outside of RSE. Then, when your SO is ready to question RSE, they will have people they can talk to about RSE, besides yourself. That will take a lot longer than your idea about just having some EMF posters show up and start talking AT your SO, but imo, it would be more effective than a staged "intervention."

IMO, let the bird come to the pieces of bread, one by one, when it is hungry and doesn't perceive any threat.

Graced and Onehand-

Thanks for your insight- it makes sense and is logical, but there are a few major things that make me unable to approach it in that way:

1)I don't want to have RSE v. anti-RSE turn into some war in our house. I refuse to just post random anti-RSE things around the house or try to subliminably turn people away fromt their beliefs. A relationship, especially a romantic/sexual/etc relationship not built on trust and honesty is a relationship not worth having to me. I want her to know exactly how I feel, why I feel that way, and since I already know that my opinion, as someone who has never been a part of RSE, doesn't mean much to her, I figure that someone who knows way more about RSE might have a bigger impact.

2) As far as having my beliefs (veganism, etc) attacked, I would MUCH RATHER have someone sit me down and say "here is a full explanation as to why I think you being vegan is harmful" than to have them spend years and years and years subtly hinting to me and propagandizing me. If I was harming myself via veganism or anything else, I would want my friends to be able to blatantly tell me why, not make me suffer through years of harming myself because of how I migh react.

3) I had no plans on trapping her into talking to an ex-RSE student. I am planning on very openly and honestly telling her "since you know I disagree with RSE and I haven't been able to articulate it well, I've been talking to someone who knows from experience hopw harmful it can be. I was wondering if you'd be willing to talk to them. If you can listen to someone tell an entire story about Ramtha ruining part of their life, and you still don't feel any differently, then I will give up on trying to fight your involvement in RSE."

I think that ths being my girlfriend who I live with makes it very different than just some friend who has some beliefs. I don't give a **** what my friends' beliefs are, and if she was just some random friend, then yes, I would just wait for her to say "I'm having some concerns about RSE" or "why don't you respect my beliefs about RSE". But this is someone that I live with, and I see it as an extremely urgent situation (I said in a different thread that I feel that our relationship could end in 10 months- when our lease runs out- if we haven't come to some agreement on this issue, because I won't be able to live with someone who may move out of the house to live in Yelm).

Also, about hobbies, etc, again, she and I are on very different schedules (I work and go to school nights and weekends, she works weekdays in the day time) and our litle time together is generally spent reading and/or discussing philisophical, etc, things. We have been basically avoiding the "discussing" almost completely, because neither of us want to get into a fight about Ramtha. But I can't be in a relationship built on distrust and fear of what eachother are going to say. I'm not going to spend years discovering new hobbies with her so that we can continue to avoid admitting to eachother how we actually feel about RSE (that is, she has not told me the extent of how deep into she is, and I haven't told her how against it I now am). I need to know where she is, and she needs to know where I am, so that we can be on something resembling the same page as eachother.

I am not trying to shrug off what you are saying- I have started taking much of the advice given to me on this board. I think it is being underestimated, however, how much RSE is starting to slowly infultrate MY life and our relationship. People's realities cross paths, and mine and my girlfriend's are very intertwined. If we're going to have such drastically different views (as opposed to a few months ago, when I was only mildly against RSE and she was only mildly involved in it), I feel that she at least needs to know exactly how I feel and why I feel that way, and there is no better way, IMO, to do that, than to have her personally talk with someone who can discuss these things from personal experience, not just from hearsay.

If after doing that she can both say she wants to stay in RSE, AND say that she doesn't think it's going to have a larger effect than it already is on our relationship, then I am going to stop driving myself crazy over it.

If the issue of RSE is a major contention in the relationship that is supposedly built on trust, I say, address it.
They can take it from there.
Why bury your head in the sand?

I remember when I returned from my beginner's retreat in Yelm, my SO told me how surprised he was that I had "bought the whole thing lock, stock and barrel, especially the "channeling" since he knew how I questioned so many other things. Then my mom and older sister began to express concern i was involved in a "cult." I didn't really believe it was a cult at that time, although there were signs. My small group and I discussed how it did have many makings of a 'cult,' but we then added, well, they DO let us eat. Again, it was a 9-day beginners' retreat; difficult yet fun - until "R" showed up drunk at the end. How confusing. I remember discussing with my sister that it wasn't a cult (she had been doing a lot of reading online). My husband wasn't certain, but again, was surprised I had been so "taken" and attended one with me, which he said had some interesting teachings, but felt strongly it was a business. He wanted stats and asked for them, and got a "look" in response from the teacher. There are also a group of people who do beginner's groups only, since they cannot get back to Yelm easily to do the "follow-up," so they never experience the depth of what occurs when one goes beyond the beginners retreats.

I just wanted to let you know that I would become a tad ticked when my sister would say things. The thing is, it all occurred on its own. Has your girlfriend gone to any of the beginner's follow-ups (still not bad at all) and then at least a Primary event in Yelm? If not, she does not have the whole 'feel' of it. That seems to be where many people "wake up" and don't come back. Of course, JR wouldn't care, because new "beginners" come in.

I think, for me, had I done more research online instead of blindly going, I wouldn't have gone at all. My husband said I became very distant from him, during that time period. Ramtha (TM) "invades" your bedroom once you're in Primary at least. The teachers are not as 'easy' the deeper you get into it by going to the Yelm retreats. I've been to off-site retreats with buffets, etc., and IT IS NOT THE SAME, as those at the Hawaii beginner's learned abruptly when they appeared for BC or Primary. The teachers just are not consistent. "blue body dance" was taught differently, or not at all. We were instructed at my first event the "dance" HAD TO BE PERFORMED EXACTLY AS DEMONSTRATED. Other times, we had to remove all jewelry, watches, etc., and other times it wasn't even mentioned by the instructors. It seemed the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing.

All this being said, it would help to know if she has gone beyond beginner's and to other events where people have been for years, and have left - hence this board, here. Perhaps a meeting or a "chance" meeting in a bookstore and a casual conversation beginning about "R" - yes a "set-up" and I do understand you wish to be open about this, but coming two barrels at her will not work. It will put her on the defensive. A "bump" into someone at a bookstore, "hm, where is this "Ramtha TM" book? Then the person who is an ex RSE student 'overhears' and says something akin to, "what are you looking for? I used to go there but quit" would maybe spark a question mark in your girlfriend's mind?

It's only because she will become defensive, if not angry. She believes she has found THE TRUTH. It's a HUGE letdown when one figures out it's BS, but it has to be her who decides that's what it is.

I wish the very best to you, and am thankful to my own family for my retaining some "critical thinking" via my husband.

I never would have believed it was dangerous at my first retreat. We were told, just for this time, keep an "open" mind. Just for THIS time. Yes indeed. Open your mind and we'll pull out all of your critical thinking skills and replace it with what WE wish." You don't feel this; you remember your first "blast " of kundalini and reaching "fourth seal" and crying. We didn't know about subliminals or hypnosis. We did know we were "entranced" but felt we did it on our own. Anything "transcendental" that occurred - credit was given to Ramtha, and not to ourselves, when it was we, ourselves who did it. This is one thing overlooked by some students I know, who do tend to keep their involvement in the school quiet in many cases when they do not live in Yelm and live across the country. I feel ashamed myself, thinking how stupid I felt at learning I'd been 'taken.' Yet it was more than that. I was 'brainwashed.' Having been in one abusive relationship, I began to feel very ticked when the instructors and Ramtha (TM) the great began belittling us. This was an eye opener for me, because I knew how I felt all of those years ago when I lived that marriage and got out during the first year. I SURE as HECK was not going to allow what was now seeming to be "strangers" talk down to me in this manner. It was confusing because then again, there were very interesting teachings about potentials, etc.

It's simply crazy. I do think your girlfriend will feel defensive, and even if you wish to deal with it 'in her face,' these situations could push her more into it.

I wish you the best and that you will be successful in regaining your true relationship, and your girlfriend will see RSE for what it is. A business, as per the posts by Christel, which are very informative.

I remember when I returned from my beginner's retreat in Yelm, my SO told me how surprised he was that I had "bought the whole thing lock, stock and barrel, especially the "channeling" since he knew how I questioned so many other things. Then my mom and older sister began to express concern i was involved in a "cult." I didn't really believe it was a cult at that time, although there were signs. My small group and I discussed how it did have many makings of a 'cult,' but we then added, well, they DO let us eat. Again, it was a 9-day beginners' retreat; difficult yet fun - until "R" showed up drunk at the end. How confusing. I remember discussing with my sister that it wasn't a cult (she had been doing a lot of reading online). My husband wasn't certain, but again, was surprised I had been so "taken" and attended one with me, which he said had some interesting teachings, but felt strongly it was a business. He wanted stats and asked for them, and got a "look" in response from the teacher. There are also a group of people who do beginner's groups only, since they cannot get back to Yelm easily to do the "follow-up," so they never experience the depth of what occurs when one goes beyond the beginners retreats.

I just wanted to let you know that I would become a tad ticked when my sister would say things. The thing is, it all occurred on its own. Has your girlfriend gone to any of the beginner's follow-ups (still not bad at all) and then at least a Primary event in Yelm? If not, she does not have the whole 'feel' of it. That seems to be where many people "wake up" and don't come back. Of course, JR wouldn't care, because new "beginners" come in.

I think, for me, had I done more research online instead of blindly going, I wouldn't have gone at all. My husband said I became very distant from him, during that time period. Ramtha (TM) "invades" your bedroom once you're in Primary at least. The teachers are not as 'easy' the deeper you get into it by going to the Yelm retreats. I've been to off-site retreats with buffets, etc., and IT IS NOT THE SAME, as those at the Hawaii beginner's learned abruptly when they appeared for BC or Primary. The teachers just are not consistent. "blue body dance" was taught differently, or not at all. We were instructed at my first event the "dance" HAD TO BE PERFORMED EXACTLY AS DEMONSTRATED. Other times, we had to remove all jewelry, watches, etc., and other times it wasn't even mentioned by the instructors. It seemed the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing.

All this being said, it would help to know if she has gone beyond beginner's and to other events where people have been for years, and have left - hence this board, here. Perhaps a meeting or a "chance" meeting in a bookstore and a casual conversation beginning about "R" - yes a "set-up" and I do understand you wish to be open about this, but coming two barrels at her will not work. It will put her on the defensive. A "bump" into someone at a bookstore, "hm, where is this "Ramtha TM" book? Then the person who is an ex RSE student 'overhears' and says something akin to, "what are you looking for? I used to go there but quit" would maybe spark a question mark in your girlfriend's mind?

It's only because she will become defensive, if not angry. She believes she has found THE TRUTH. It's a HUGE letdown when one figures out it's BS, but it has to be her who decides that's what it is.

I wish the very best to you, and am thankful to my own family for my retaining some "critical thinking" via my husband.

I never would have believed it was dangerous at my first retreat. We were told, just for this time, keep an "open" mind. Just for THIS time. Yes indeed. Open your mind and we'll pull out all of your critical thinking skills and replace it with what WE wish." You don't feel this; you remember your first "blast " of kundalini and reaching "fourth seal" and crying. We didn't know about subliminals or hypnosis. We did know we were "entranced" but felt we did it on our own. Anything "transcendental" that occurred - credit was given to Ramtha, and not to ourselves, when it was we, ourselves who did it. This is one thing overlooked by some students I know, who do tend to keep their involvement in the school quiet in many cases when they do not live in Yelm and live across the country. I feel ashamed myself, thinking how stupid I felt at learning I'd been 'taken.' Yet it was more than that. I was 'brainwashed.' Having been in one abusive relationship, I began to feel very ticked when the instructors and Ramtha (TM) the great began belittling us. This was an eye opener for me, because I knew how I felt all of those years ago when I lived that marriage and got out during the first year. I SURE as HECK was not going to allow what was now seeming to be "strangers" talk down to me in this manner. It was confusing because then again, there were very interesting teachings about potentials, etc.

It's simply crazy. I do think your girlfriend will feel defensive, and even if you wish to deal with it 'in her face,' these situations could push her more into it.

I wish you the best and that you will be successful in regaining your true relationship, and your girlfriend will see RSE for what it is. A business, as per the posts by Christel, which are very informative.




APOLOGIES IF THIS POSTS TWICE (sorry David-signal comes and goes)

Tre- I sent you a reply email at the email address you originally emailed me from.

G2G- That was all really valid and helpful. I think that I will probably go through with trying to have her meet with someone the way I planned, but I am taking into consideration everything you people are saying to me. thanks a lot

It's going to come down to so many things...is the ex-Ramster possibly credible to your girlfriend? Can the ex-Ramster share experiences that your gf can relate to?

One thing that is important to keep in mind is that Ramsters develop an internal mental relationship with "Ramtha" which is invisible. It not possible to know how strong the attachment is and you won't find out until you test the waters. If your gf chooses "Ramtha" over you are you going to walk? In which case you might as well test the waters. Good Luck, soldier!

zyw: Morgana said:I was very pro RSE until I found this page. I saw the L.A.R.S.E. gatherig videos and that was it. I left.
Perhaps a way to share time and perspectives with your girlfriend would be to watch the LARSE videos together. Both 'sides' are presented. She can observe RSE staff and so called Teachers in their true slimy form; and hear Carroll Cobb, an educated scientist, speak about the misrepresentation of science by a so-called "Enlightened Being"; and Joe Szimhart speak on mind controlling techniques. ... And/or take her to the next open for the public LARSE gathering.
Another factor to consider - what we have recognized is that we have been dis-eased through sophisticated mind controlling techniques. Would you tell a diabetic that you disagree with their illness and therefore can't be in relationship? Your girlfriend is dis-eased. The 'medication' is NOT direct confrontation -- but you can help her get educated about her dis-ease, perhaps. But, following the analogy of diabetes - when a person is in a diabetic meltdown, they can't hear anything.
If the basis of your relationship is your girlfriend agreeing with YOU, move on. Get clear within yourself as to your motivation - is it love for her, or is it your not having your way.... She could have current students meet with you to explain how wonderful and advanced and extraordinary Ramtha is and what is taught. What's the difference? Watching the LARSE videos together, or attending the Oct.27 LARSE meeting together educates you both simultaneously.

I still say, address the issue.
BUT, as I have also stated in other threads, and others have said the same here, the GF WILL get defensive if pushed.
For myself, the way RSE was systematically and methodically spelled out
for me once I questioned, I could not refute the information in front of my eyes.
Although, it did leave me with a few questions about the things that
I "achieved" for myself (ie- tohumo, "manifesting" several cords of wood, windows for my house, etc....but that is another topic).
"R" very much comes into one's life as a very invisible prison. And as someone mentioned above, you do not know the degree that any particulat individual has
in their own mind with "R".
I just pray for zyx's GF that an opening appears in her vision so that she CAN hear another point of view.

Hi zyx, I would be willing to speak with your girlfriend too, I will be in the Yelm area for the meetings Oct 27/28 and have some extra time while I'm there. You can email me if you'd like.

I do tend to agree that you probably want to address it rather than make some 'chance meeting' happen in a store, this could lead to a serious break in trust if she suspects that you arranged it.

I also realize that as many others have said, she will likely dig in her heels but if nothing else some seeds might be planted and maybe if she still feels the same commitment to rse after speaking w/ an ex-student we can hope that her tenure there will be shortened by those seeds germinating with time.

When I first moved to Yelm my family arranged for an exit counseling (joe sz was there) and they basically tricked me into coming. The session did not go well, with my family forcing me to stay for 3 days while I locked myself in a room or bathroom and for the most part refused to watch or listen to any of the material.

I felt a deep sense of betrayal toward my family for deceiving me like this and in effect the arranged exit counseling could not have done more to push me further into the arms of the school. Now, my sense of judgement and my personal autonomy was challenged and I was deeply hurt. Of course, I fully understand (now) where my family was coming and given the same circumstance with my child I honestly don't know what I would do.

Do I think that if they had openly told me what the plan was that I would have willingly come? Probably not... but maybe. I think your plan for honesty with your girlfriend is wise, you really are talking about protecting the basis of your relationship. You need to know where you stand with her and whether her commitment to rse outweighs her commitment to you and she needs to know that you will respect her choices and not trick her into something she doesn't want.

Again, feel free to email if you think I can help.

Hey everyone- just wanted to give an update aboutmy situation.

I had a talk with my housemate who has been in RSE for 15 years and who got my girlfriend into RSE. It turns out that she knows all about LARSE and EMF, and has VERY strong opinions against both. Because of this I realized that I didn't want my g/f to come to the LARSE weekend or anything because it would instantly be countered by my other housemate and because my housemate actually knows some people on this board personally, so it could create a weird conflict of interest in my house.

Instead I just talked to my g/f about how I feel, being careful not to say "you're in a dangerous cult", etc. We had a really good talk actually.

The good part: She's not as 100% into RSE as I thought. she said she still wants to keep an open mind that it could be a fraud, though she doesn't think it is. I told her some of the things I learned from this board and she was open and totally listened. She is going to her follow up, but keeping what I told her in mind.

The bad news: We basically realized that the tension RSE was causing in our house and our relationship is not just from RSE, but really from a growing change in our paths in life. whether it's RSE or not, my g/f is going to be into new age things that I not only don't like, but whole-heartedly don't support at all (the secret, LGAT things like Peak Potentials/Millionare Mind, Multi level marketing, she wants to develop psychic/channeling abilities, etc). We aren't breaking up right now or anything, but we acknowledged that we are desiring to live different lifestyles, and that we won't be happy together in the long run. We're staying together while we figure out what we want to do about this, but at least we know and have admitted a lot more to eachother than we did/had a week ago.

This board really helped me get my thoughts into place and determine how to address this all with her, etc. thanks everyone. Thank you all. I will probably keep reading the board and maybe make a post here or there.

Tree- did you get my last email to you? the one a couple days ago?

>>The good part: She's not as 100% into RSE as I thought. she said she still wants to keep an open mind that it could be a fraud, though she doesn't think it is. I told her some of the things I learned from this board and she was open and totally listened. She is going to her follow up, but keeping what I told her in mind.<<

zyxwv -- you know, my mother does the same thing...sometimes she gets defensive and wants to argue back, but sometimes she just smiles and nods and agrees that what I'm saying could be, or is true... I think it's just a tactic to avoid discussion, personally... You know, like "don't argue and they'll just go quietly off into the night"...just my opinion with my own mom.... My own mother and sister and brother in law are in Yelm now, at BC... So I'd say as long they continue to go, they believe...otherwise, why bother??... For them, it's no easy trip since they all live on the east coast....

I'm sorry your relationship has possibly taken a turn that will ultimately cause a breakup -- those things are never easy and there is always some grieving... But that is what dating is about -- finding out what you're compatible with, etc etc, in a partner... You have handled yourself with amazing grace and maturity and wisdom on this board and anyone you cross paths with will be have been lucky!

Also -- I was wondering what your other housemate's negative views on LARSE and EMF were?

Marie- Thank you very much for the nice words. Compliments definitely help right now, haha. Yeah, I know it's what dating, etc is all about, that's why I handling it ok. I'm kind of a "serial monogamy" kind of guy- I'm 21 and this is my 4th "serious" relationship- so I'm used to break ups, heh. Though before this relatoinship i took a year and a half off from relatoinships, and I only let this one happen because I really thought it had something special...And it did. it does. we're still enjoying it while it's here. We gave eachother a lot.

I don't think she was trying to shut me up, I think she really is keeping an open mind. I know her "blow me off" vibe really well, and she wasn't giving it. But she needs to get out when she wants to get out, not when I want her to. I think I have planted as many seeds of doubt as I can reasonably expect to, and now its on her.

Tree- never mind what I asked in my last post. I got your emails. I'll write back now.

Oh, and Marie-

I don't think I can talk about my housemates views on LARSE because it involves people on the board personally. Basically, she thinks LARSE is just people that failed at R's disciplines and are taking out on RSE. she thinks that they exagerate and lie about stories, etc. I don't agree with her, but there's no way I'm going to budge her on it, so I'm not trying.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought -- the "they're all whiners and victims" line... Exactly the same things my own family says... and they use this illogic toward me as well... I have overheard my mother telling my sister that "she [me] is full of salacious gossip and hate"... just for sending them both information links that were not pro RSE, for discussion!!.. No proselytizing, at that point I had only just found negative information and just wanted to see what they said about it.. why it was out there... There WAS no discussion... I received emails back telling me to please cease sending any more "horrible links and emails"... period... Then my sister told me not to contact her anymore, and that she "would not discuss it with you until you go see for yourself".. and that "you have lost a sister, but it is of your own doing"....period.

It really makes it hard to believe THIS site is full of garbage, victims and hate mongers when you get a response like that from your own family.

With this whole topic, I am about to throw in the towel and say to hell with
helping anybody else.
I responded to zyx, and he was very very pleasant.
It's his house mate that started bashing EMF, and that totally , TOTALLY upset me that day, becuase I am not one to fabricate things like a rape and a pregnancy. In fact, her father was one of two people who knew about it and told me, "you created this on the plane of bliss."
Fricking horse crap!!!!
As I pointed out to zyx, that one young lady, who used to be amongst my sons' friends, there used to be about 30 kids that hung out together, all children of RSE parents. That one young lady is 1 of 30 left that attended RSE.
The rest of the young people had seen through the facade.
The other young people STILL allow their parent's belief systems, even though their opinions of Ramtha -let's just say, these children have SEEN what happens to their parents. Their health wastes away, their money goes to that stupid place, most live below the poverty line,their parents commit suicide, their father dies in an audience when "R" claims no one has died in audience, and most of those parents tell the ex-students they are fricking victims!
I am sick and tired of those parents' lack of allowing of other people's choices to practice any other way in terms of spirituality. This is America.
The teachings say "be allowing", but in the same breath, that act utterly opposite, as in trashing christians, making fun of the Buddhists. Fricking
hypocrites!! Every single one of them!!!
I will think twice again before sticking my neck out for somebody, only to have it
escalate into a PTSD "episode".

Dear zy...

If it helps at all, I was never technically a member of the school so am not someone who, as your housemate put it, "tried and failed." I am someone who for a few weeks/months became close to the inner circle and I believe, got to see things as they really are with the benefit of NOT going through all the systematic brainwashing that RSE does. I had an open mind to the teachings, so your housemate couldn't say that I was too closed to the experience.

With clear eyes and ears, I saw and heard what is really only abuse and manipulation. The teachings are hogwash. Your girlfriend will not obtain any psychic powers from RSE. I have a close friend who has been going to the school for 14 years and has no such abilities. He just keeps trying and with each passing day gets no closer to his goals of magic powers and simply alienates himself further from the rest of society. His only hope for employment at this rate, is within another group like RSE if not RSE itself. It is the only thing he is qualified to do by now. It is tragic really. He is so deep in, when Ramtha or JZ is angry with him (which happens a lot) he is so lost and incapable of doing anything but winning their love and approval once again. This is a grown man acting like a nine year old with an abusive mother.

On the flip side, at 21 you've got a lot of time to meet other great women. If this woman has a goal of obtaining psychic and channeling abilities, it sounds like she is opening herself up to being duped by a variety of charlatans. I think you are going to run into this problem again and again with her.

Good luck.

Tree -- thanks for venting!!.....

Hugs.

Terra, am slighty offended by your words about 'new age crap'...so, speaking only for myself, here is a rundown, just about me and my individual beliefs, which i have a right to (as do you)
Out of a possible 100%
Belief in reincarnation - 70%
Belief in the possibility of precognition - 70%
Belief in the benefit of meditation - 80%
Belief in the possibility of remote viewing - 85%
Belief that organized religions may not have the answer for me - 80%
Belief in spirits/disembodied entities/ghosts - 80%
Belief in the possibility of channeling - 60%
Belief that any one channel should be followed - 20%
Predisposition to follow a channel - 10%
Inclination to follow a channel that makes me pay to get yelled at - NIL

zywxv, clearly if your g/f needs to be convince that the disciplines at the school work, then all she has to do as have any one of the members that have been there for say 15 years and on...do the remarkable before her eyes.

After 15-10 years or 10-5 years of any dicipline, anyone should be able to do the 'remarkable' within a blink of an eye.

Psychic abilities (intuitive know-how) will be truncated once a person start those disciplines. I mean, why do so many people still struggle with their lives (after so many years) and still havn't done the remarkable yet?

Have your g/f ask a member to do something amazing, like, lift an object with their thoughts; walk through the wall; tell her what's inside her pocket.

And if they claim to do remote view: how many eggs are in my fridge right now; what's the content of my home; where does my parents live; how many siblings do I have.

I mean, things like that, will convince me that I'm attending the right school of knowledge. Not watching people struggle more with their lives, and far worst off, then before joining the school.

Test the spirit first, before joining anything.

Okay, let me return to watching the television series of "The Dead Zone," where I'm seeing that if a person really has great psychic powers, they can do the remarkable just by touching someone else.

zyxwv...
Sounds, though, like, although u may not spend an eternity with your GF, you have something worth saving...differing beliefs and directions alone need not split you up...
And, those here with experience of RSE all seem to point to the likelihood of her not getting what she's looking for at RSE, and eventually moving on. Guess, though, nobody can say when that will be, so, waiting may not be the way to go. It's good that you talked with her about it. Best of luck, whichever way it goes. Have this feeling, though, that u should leave the door only partly closed...she may need u!

I'm with IUB here.
Very easy things to test.
The only thing the RSE student might do is
poo -poo things like the eggs in my fridge, or how many siblings, because those
are really not "enlightened" things to ask

I know a few people who got verbally attacked by "R" who had asked such
'lowly'things.
That might be their lone rebuttal.

And as a matter of fact, upon going through
alot of my things, I found the "three stones" that we worked on soooo diligently during an assay to "turn into gold".
Yup, still stones there.

IUB...you need to go to the store, you have no eggs in your fridge...(assuming that you want eggs) - and if it was a long event, chances are "none" would have been the right answer...wasteful to leave perishables in the fridge.
And, about stones turning to gold...Gold ore looks like an ordinary green stone...(I have one...thinking of sending it to RSE students) so if that were one of your three stones, you would have aced the exercise...

To Lost in Space,

When did I ever use the term "new age crap?"

I have not...Sigmund Freud much?

I am so sorry, it was somebody else..on another thread, that set me off.
But, what does Freud have to do with it????
It grew to seem to me IMO a common thing, on this site, that in repudiating Ramtha's teachings, and from a sense (justified it would appear) of having been taken in and deceived, or heavily manipulated and controlled, for some, every single element of any belief system that smacks of anything even faintly resembling anything at all to do with anything at all learned at RSE is reviled...but, I should have checked before posting, and I hope you will forgive my error...

I wish only peace for those who post here. I had it in the back of my mind, that maybe, for some, in spite of the deception and abuse, when they come out on the other side, they might find that they have gained something (even if it is just one excercise or encounter) of value, which makes it all seem slightly less bitter for them. Or that they will never let it happen again.
Also, IMO, it might interest you to know that, I consider that Sigmund Freud may have done a fair bit of harm. But, hey, I can joke about it a bit.
Freudian dream analysis: you dream about a train going through a tunnel - it's a penis. You dream of carrots - penile symbols. Writing something? You are weilding a phallic symbol...on and on. But if you dream about a phallus - you're out of luck...no analysis exists for that.

HAHAHA Lost in Space.
Me thinks you need some homeopathics for
memory !
( I take them myself til my brains heals from 18 years of s h i t)

and my remote viewing capabilities say:
you need eggs in your fridge

I am not practicing deception when I say...the only time I need eggs in my fridge, is when I am expecting someone for whom that is the only acceptable protein source...I am allergic to eggs. Now, where is the icon for nausea???? Cause I have them on my face, sigh.

Have never been in RSE...just know somebody who is still in there...And, also, have endured some similar experiences to what is shared here. It took me years to recover. Hope the time is much shorter for you.
Homeopathics could be good. I find, like many of you, that talking to people "in the same boat" helps tremendously.

My posts don't always show up...this could bear repeating...I am not a former (or current) RSE student...I was a prospective one...I know someone who is a current one. I worry now very much about that person.
I was, though, subjected to abuse and heavy duty mind control techniques for about ten years...was also sexually assaulted, and it has taken me years to recover. May it take you less time.
Homeopathy is good...but, instead of having my memory improved, sometimes, I would like it wiped. Got anything for that? I have PTSD. It is mostly in remission now...just have the odd disturbing flashback. Most of the time, I feel calm and copacetic...and, like I have not done too badly for myself. And I have a wonderful daughter...and family who love me. And friends. And a job. Hobbies. A dog and a cat. Two ex-husbands with whom I get along.
I think the worst thing I've heard in all the postings here, apart from the abuse of Tree, a long term, loyal employee, is the recurring theme of people giving up all of those things - things that make life worth living, to "create new realities" which are not nearly as good, mostly, as the old ones they leave behind.

Tree......

You think homeopathics will heal YOUR brain?

Your walkin a Judi path.

Be careful my "Pretty".

Only self diligence will protect you now.

Best that you stay away from THIS post for a while unless you want to get even more entangled in self megalomania, which is harder to escape from than RSE.

Do you hear me?

Hello, this is the first time I have been on here, and my boyfriend has just been to a weeks "school" in Italy and has come back a different person. I have tried to tell him it's a cult, and he doesn't know what he is getting in to, but he seems as adament as ever that it is the truth and i am not ready for understanding and looking within myself for the truth. No matter how many tears it has caused and every conversation ends up with RSE being the topic, he won't change his mind. At one point I thought he may be considering leaving, but there is something which is stopping him which he won't say. Is it fear? He used the excuse that he would lose a lot of people he loved...I don't understand this...can anyone help? I felt completely alone in all this until I read all of the messages here, and know that i am not. I still don't know how I am going to tackle this one, but they have all helped me feel so much better. Thanks

"At one point I thought he may be considering leaving.."

Hi M and a Big Welcome,
Don't worry, you are not alone and there are plenty of people here with experience who are concerned about what is occuring at RSE. If he has only been to a Beginning Retreat then he is still open to information and one thing you can do is show him this website.

It can be as simple as telling him that you are curious and would like to know more about his experience and RSE. So you searched the web and came upon this site. Would he like to look at it? If he could explain a few things it would make you feel better...

Another thing that would be helpful is to make sure he understands what a cult is. A very good book is "Cults Among Us" by Margaret Singer. "Ramtha" always says, "THIS IS NOT A CULT! THERE ARE NO SEATBELTS ON THE FLOOR! YOU CAN LEAVE AT ANY TIME!"

So make sure he knows what a cult is.

Here are some other resources to learn about cults:
www.factnet.com
www.icsahome.com

Take Care

M-
the first week is the honey moon that totally hooks a person.
they LONG for more.
I will make another post that I was referenced to for people newly starting out in a group...and to think critically.
Marie, ZYX, are in your shoes.

M-

From the similar situation I am in I would say the the most important thing to ask is "Is my significant other the type of person that is drawn to cults, or is this a freak accident that needs to be alleviated"

What I had to admit to myself in my case is that my girlfriend likes group spiritual situations that I would call cults, or at least "cult-esque". She is into LGATs, the Secret, Ramtha, and other groups that use new age spirituality as the first step into what I think is a cult-ish environment. Once I realized this, I realized that even if my girlfriend left Ramtha (by my persuasion or entirely on her own), she would get just as iwrapped up in another group that I am just as opposed to.

Because of this, we agreed that we are not going to last as long as a couple as we thought, because our lifestyle choices are totally different. I don't have the desire to support these things, and she doesn't have the desire to spend her life with someone who doesn't support her.

If your s/o has the type of personality that likes these cult-ish situations, I would say your chances are slim. But if your s/o usually opposes groups like this, and hass somehow gotten sucked in, I imagine the odds are muuuuch higher of being able to persuade otherwise.

Just my opinion.

Hey zyxwv, thanks for your opinion...I completely agree with you, and maybe I just need different things in my life to feel fulfilled. I am still figuring out the answer to that, as it is such a hard question to face. The longer this goes on though, the harder I am finding this, and someone on EMF quoted to me that it is one thing to help someone, and another to lose yourself in the process...I don't want to lose myself.

zyxwv - I think you have amazing maturity. I'm sure it wasn't the outcome you hoped for with your girlfriend but I commend you for your clarity and ability to reason your chances together. Ultimately that's what we have to do in any relationship, right...? Cult or no cult. However, it is rare to see that process occur relatively amicably. I do hope that you are doing well and thanks for sharing your update.

M- didn't you say your boyfriend JUST came back? was it his first retreat? if so, 1) Of course he's going to rave about it when it's so fresh. 2) That means there is definitely still time to keep him from getting lost, especially since I'm guessing you don't live near WA (or else he wouldn't have gone to Italy?)

Find out his opinion/personality on other cults. Ask him if they rub him the wrong way, if he thinks they are brainwashing,manipulative, etc. If he answers yes, ask him what RSE does that is any better than those cults, and show him posts here that show how terrible RSE can be.

If he sees no problem with other cults and gives a "if that's what they choose to do" kind of response, then you might have to reevaluate your compatibility, etc.

Definitely don't lose yourself, but don't be so afraid of it that you don't at least give it your all. For me- in the long run both my girlfriend and I will be happier not in a relationship together, AND I think I can be of better help to her if I am not her boyfriend. That way if she ever gets out of RSE, our relationship will be less clouded and easier to be straightforward, etc.

Wiseone-
Thanks. For a 21 year old, I am quite familiar with relatively serious/long term relationships and their subsequent break ups. This one is different because we live together and I really thought it hadlifelong potential, but I am not one for bull****ting myself. She and I had been having doubts for months, it just took the Ramtha conversation to get us to admit it to eachother. Like I said, if it wasn't RSE it would have been something else for us. We're good together, but not good enough to see through serious lifestyle differences and perceptions. I'd rather spare us the long term misery of pretending, heh.

Oh, and my girlfriend gave me GREAT NEWS last night. She gets to go to her follow up for only 200 bucks because she's on bathroom duty. OH JOY!!!!

I know how you feel, but I also can relate to how she feels ( since I "been there , done that").
But it is amusing......

zyx,

you just sound so mature!!!!

i feel bad for girlfriend. she's really missing the boat.

you deserve miss right, and i hope you find her....i know you will find her.

but i have to laughingly and kindly say, you also crack me up...it's been a while since i was 21, and i have a son who is 22 this year...to me you're a "kid".

my son's gf is out of the country for this college semester. he's not happy about it, and the family is watching to see if it makes 'em or breaks 'em. so far, it seems to be working out alright. we expect they're gonna get married someday, but i don't count my chickens before they're hatched so to speak. she's a nice girl - that's not a problem. just have to SEE it. time will tell. as always.

we broke up.

just thought i'd give thaqt update.

it was her that called the "break up talk", but it was prety mutual. we're still pals. i'm sleeping on the floor while i look for a new place. she volunteered to let me have the bed, but it's her bed, not mine, so i took the living room.

ironic: We got together in January, and she broke up with me RIGHT after we got together. then she went to her beginner's retreat in Feb and when she got back, she got back together with me right when she came home.

Cut to 8 months later, and she breaks up with me RIGHT when she gets back from her follow up.

Sorry, Zy.

I'm sure you're feeling sad. I wish you the best, and your heart's desire.

I'm sure the right person is on this planet for you - who will treat you with respect and true love. Untethered by any cult-drama.

she is on her own RSE journey.
You have made some mature observations of where you are at and where you want to go, and with someone on a similar path.
may you find happiness.....

always....