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Glad to have stumbled on this site. My experience with Ramtha/JZ is limited to the mid-80's when I was all of 20 and ended roughly around 87 when the negatives began to shout louder than the positives.
I had a an attraction/repulsion reaction to JZ and Ramtha from the first time I saw them on the Merv Griffin show in '85 being Ferris Beuhler and skipping school.
I thought it was kind of a joke that JZ/Ramtha had flowers at her/his feet and what appeared to be the motif of an Eastern style Guru. So there was that dynamic right off the bat urging me to keep my radar open.
However, there was the message still strongly present: of freedom, personal responsiblity, creativity etc. that I thought was compellingly presented and entertainingly so.
My just post adolescent male self was relieved to see a "male" authority figure of such grand origins holding forth with such color on a variety of topics. I think the material became a surrogate mother/father making the entry to adulthood a little less uncertain.
I listened to hundreds of tapes, but never went to a live event until 1987. I went to a one day event. Maybe intuitively I didn't want to observe something that might upset my high.
Seeing JZ cavort around like the queen of the universe with an assistant carrying a box of kleenex at the ready for the inevitable catharsis of just being in her hole-y self, was enough to shut the door on the whole thing.
Overhearing some of the conversations of the other attendees also concerned me, their tone was full of worship and devotion. I heard many defensive comments about the negative media coverage Ramtha had endured. I was starting to feel very uncomfortable.
I have learned the lesson "take what works and chuck the rest" over and over again, yet I can't honestly say I retain anything Ramtha taught that I haven't encountered a better expression of elsewhere.
My take now on JZ/Ramtha is that the teachings are full of half truths that engage the native spiritual hunger of all humans and a good deal of JZ's psychic debris clouding the message considerably.
JZ strikes me as a whiney adolescent who gets her power from the crowd she attracts, not from a spiritual source.
I think she may have been experiencing a phenomenon of "channeling" something whether that be a part of her own psyche [perhaps an amalgam of her concepts of maleness married to her early chritian beliefs] or whatever. I do believe that was a very limited period of time when she thought she was engaged in some legitmate phenomena.
While I don't know the level of conscious fraud. I do believe JZ is aware of being a fraud on some level.
I am not dismissive of "channeled" material. I find the Seth material well presented and literate and much of the early Lazaris material, likewise so.
My involvement with JZ/Ramtha pre-dates any RSE or school development. Back then, it was just tapes and workshops.
I believe JZ inserted her own homophobia and agendas of control into the material and it all falls apart when you apply the thought of creating your own reality to the inevitablity of the earths destruction.
I plan to read more here and jump in but I was wondering if anyone knows what happened to Anne Marie Benstrom who was a fixture in the mid 80s and on all of the vids and then boom, gone.
Hey its me again, sent the first post before I was finished.
Basically, for what it is worth, my analysis of Ramtha is as follows:
JZ is a woman mired in the limitations of her early Christian beliefs and a strong victim complex. I think she is also one of the most self important bloviaters in a field dominated by same.
I believe her investment in her image of herself as a heroine/martyr is greater than anything else. My observation is that JZ could have gotten some garden variety therapy and the message of Ramtha would be very different.
I think JZ's bigotry and biases clearly inform the Ramatha material. Her homophobic take on gays being "crossovers" or some such foolery reflects, I think a fear of sexuality. Not just homosexuality but of all forms of sexuality. The injunction to "not spill your seed" to men, is debatable philosphically but if you are not jerking off because you are afraid, you are still operating out of a base of fear and not awareness.
This all speaks to the idea of control. If you can control a persons genitals you can easily control his/her brain. This is a well known principle of indoctrination.
I have more thoughts later, but if anyone knows the story about Anne Marie Benstrom, I would appreciate it.
Anne Marie and her husband still retain their house in Rainer, but no longer attend the school. I understand she still assoiciates with the old Ashram in CA.
Thanks Tree, thats interesting.
My other question had to do with what Ramtha?/JZ told his audience when none of his dire predictions came true?
How did JZ address this? Was she challenged? curious as to how she handled it?
Thank you for your post,
You certainly have a way with words and good understanding of Judith's RSE insanity.
For the past several years Anne Marie and Ken have kept their distance from Judith,
particularly Ken who visits EMF occasionally.
Anne Marie introduced Judith to "channeling" at the very beginning and held her hand while she perfected her "Ramtha" show.
Some are in so deep that facing the truth ... will bury them alive.
re: "when none of his dire predictions came true? How did JZ address this? Was she challenged?"
incredibly astute, *denotes. your grasp of the scenario just based on tapes/videos is razor. I chose the 'Beruit investigative reporting' method, an assignment of 2 years.
anyway, as to the lack of clothes on the Emperor espousing world dissolution, the response has been 2 fold:
1) Totally shift things to a psuedo-science focus: quantum physics (psychotics) and other marginally believable miraculous Blue Body healing scrap with pseudo-brain cell science teachings.
2) When global warming/climate change hit the headlines (Al Gore), she associated herself back to the days to come (DTC) bandwagon, hitting it hard.
The R persona has become meaner, demeaning (gays got their guilt back). Audience attacks in wine ceremonies ever more vicious. Shocking. Never saw human act like that, even psychotic ones in mental wards. The harsher the 'teacher-teachings-predictions' served to separate the wheat from the shaft. Audrey and Joe were sacrificed, a demo of being kicked from the nest. Hundreds who had showed up, re: What the Bleep are largely gone now, due to this extremism. But NOT the hard core - a faction of 3000 now, living in Jelm area, many foreign in illegal, abject poverty. The new 'European invasion' hasn't really happened; Europe turning into the North Pole is just too fantastic an idea to be believed.
Thus, evil queen handled old predictions via distraction, alignment with new climate changes ('see, he told you so- 20 years ago...). It totally entrenched core group - immensed in talk about preparedness, canned-dehydrated food, gold-silver coins, concrete undergrounds. Fear so deeply embedded it is 'fact'. Not questioned at all. If this isn't an experiment in human behavior control, I don't know what is, so complete. Creating millions of dollars along the way. CLEAR mind control research for someone, imo...
I am still looking for a real princess to turn me back to what I was...
''''I am still looking for a real princess to turn me back to what I was... ''''
You are now better than what you were, for you now know how important it is to maintain our critical thinking. But who knows what is around the corner for you-an honest and beautiful being- and you will know that you are wiser, and your post here is helping others. Be your own prince, and the princess is not far ahead.
Instead of looking for a frog princess to turn you back into what you were, look in the mirror. You never lost your true nature, it was only buried in deceit.
I liked the example you gave.
"I am still looking for a real princess to turn me back to what I was... "
It might be a good topic for a new thread. One issue in recovery is about re-identifying with ones previous self. This can take time as one has to sift through the parts which were surpressed, unaccepted and labeled (monkey-mind, social conciousness, etc).
denotesmeaning, I'm so with you on this whole "don't spill your seed," and these gay bashing methods I've heard JZ speaks. Again, it goes to being a sinner and being unworthy if you are both and/or has done the other. And I'm not on the same page with this 'crossover' thing she spoke either.
It doesn't make sense because no one has proven or can prove what gender they were in a former life: real solid proving, not just some fantasy thought.
Keep it real.
Isn't it interesting it is taught that we all have been both sexes there, yet JZ has ALWAYS reincarnated as a woman?
Does anyone know if she is still railing against gays and teaching that nonsense about "crossovers" ?
At least last summer, "R" said onstage, "I'm a male in
a woman's body" - am for everybody - transvestites, etc.
There was so much teaching on "time tiles" and "godscope"
(aka little kids' rolled paper telescopes). The last
appearance of JZ as "R" at this event is so fuzzy I can't
remember much about it except for when "he/she" walked
to the end of the hall to talk to the parents with
small children and instructed them to "protect their baybays"
from predators, etc. I wonder now what "code" was
spoken because I honestly cannot remember it, but I also
remember not being able to remember it even to "turn and
discuss what you've learned with your partner." I DO
remember JZ as "R" staring at ME, turning my head too
quickly and this crazy shooting pain up my neck.
I couldn't wait to leave this event. No, however, I did not
here bashing of people for their sexual preferences.
Wouldn't she then be-----oh,oh,oh---judgmental!
Oh, I do remember all invited to BC.
Yes, the "crossover" dogma (a point of view put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds) is still around along with jz/"Ramtha's" admonishment to homosexuals, "Live your plumbing."
"live your plumbing"
JZ is truly deranged and clearly more than a bit backward in her thinking on the subject of human sexuality.
She would have made an excellent "church lady"
I have more thoughts later, but if anyone knows the story about Anne Marie Benstrom, I would appreciate it.
I am not sure what you mean about "the story".
I know that she just saw through JZ and her greed, and that was that.
Of course, "the old woman" as "r" affectionately called her, was privy to JZ's "inner" circle or parties, what have you. But I think Anne Marie has better things to do with her time now.
That was in response to denotesmeaning's inquiry. Nothing I was asking about. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Regarding Ann Marie Benstrom: I don't know her but I remember her saying on one of those early "Ramtha" tapes that she was alway willing to drop a belief for one that was better, no matter what the investment had been.
She is very smart, much smarter than JZ, I believe,and probably just figured out the limitations and moved on.
I assume she did anway.
I guess there are complications in publicly withdrawing ones support but I also think when you sit next to JZ on every video and participate on so many audio tapes, you might have the responsiblity to say a little more than nothing.
While your sudden absence speaks for itself, I would be very interested to her the non "pr" reason she left Ms. Knight in the ditch of her own making.
And by PR, I mean the standard new age self exonorative crap of "everyone has their own path and if it is your path to be conned out of everything you have and own by JZ Knight, who am I to judge"
My response would be maybe it is YOUR path to call the blow the whistle on what you know and save people a whole lot of heart ache.
After all, I am sure if Ann Marie saw a man about to walking along and saw that he was about to fall off a cliff, I am sure she wouldn't say "maybe its his path to walk off a cliff" hell no, she would scream STOP!
Same thing with Ramthat. If someone really wants to destroy themselves they can do it without you watching.
Thats my philosphy anyway.
"After all, I am sure if Ann Marie saw a man about to walking along and saw that he was about to fall off a cliff, I am sure she wouldn't say "maybe its his path to walk off a cliff" hell no, she would scream STOP!"
for some, this is not the case.
1) they are still reeling emotionally, mentally and psycholigically from the uncovering.
2) they are in recovery
3) they are in fear of JZ
many people cannot stand up yet.
The more people share their stories,
and you can tell when they are sincere,
the more it gives others courage to open up , share, and give others hope.
Thats true Tree, good points. In the case of someone like Ann Marie Benstrom, who has not been involved with JZ for years, she might have the distance to offer a valued perspective.
But what you say is very true.
I like it!
"The injunction to "not spill your seed" to men, is debatable philosphically"
Like almost everything from Ramtha, this is also a copied teaching. It's mentioned in Baird Spalding's books (now some say they are fiction because he didn't went to India, but even if they are then i think this man must be an absolutely genius). It is also mentioned in Jasmuheen's "Living on Light" and in books from Mantak Chia.
But i wonder how the anti-sex teachings go in line with the orgies at the wine ceremonies?
Let us not forget that the "soulmate" she dumped her dentist husband for was a homosexual that she, JZ Knight, apparently didn't have the charms to ..."cure"?
Opppth....too bad "Ramtha" didn't warn her about that one, eh?
LOLOL!!! Too funny...
Regarding Baird T. Spalding & Masters of the Far East
If you are not aware, there was indeed a 6th book released (a long awaited one)entitled, "Baird T. Spalding, As I knew him" by David Bruton (Volume 6) In the book, a personal account from DeVorss publishing, speaking engagements, documents, and his death in Arizona. If you, like countless people, once enjoyed, read, and "believed" in the characters in the story, this book will provide you with a very enlightening perspective.
Not so unlike this site provides a "as we knew s/he" both factual, personal accounts, and a much more logical explanation of what the true nature of the author, and the spirituality/book publishing business of that era....
The last time I saw Anne Marie was many years ago, while we were discussing the events, science, as we were all enjoying eating "christmas scrambled eggs & bacon" in the tank field. I asked her 'what ever happened with Shirley M. and JZ/R? And she declined to continue our conversation. She then smiled, as I failed to receive her telepathic answer through her eyes,an intent gaze I can still recall today. Then, she wished me a Merry ChristMass and moved on.
Yeah, Judith dumped her soulmate for another piece of meat.
Then, Ramthimher dumped his soulmate for those chicks that G2G talked about in an earlier post, saying they line up at the door and suck face with the Big Guy when he makes his Grande Entrance to the arena.
This is twisted.
Are there any lil' Rammy Jr's we need to know of ?
It's like a Woodstock from Hell up there.
i didn't read the books of Spalding completely, therefore i don't know much about the whole storyline of them. But i read the descriptions of divine principles and explanations and thought that they are one of the purest descriptions of truth available.
I searched for infos regarding your recommendation and found out that in fact the grandfather of Baird Spalding went to India and carried teachings of masters with him back home. Baird Spalding looked for a way to make money and used his grandfather's material as a template for these books. Then he merged the teachings with his own story and characters.
It didn't make any sense to me that a common man would bundle so much concentrated, clear spiritual information into every single page with no reference at all.
Taking this background information into account, i would say that the books of Spalding do contain truth even if the characters and dramatical storyline are a work of fiction.
®amtha said that Baird Spalding did experienced all of what he described. Guess the "enlightened one" is not so omniscient after all. The title of ®amtha "the vomiting one" suits him better.
Thank you for your recommendation, it really helped me to gain better understanding.