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I am curious to know about former student's belief vis-a-vis "channeling".
Do you still believe that channeling is "possible" and /or "probable"?
Has anyone explored other channeled personalities beside "Mafu" such as "Kyron" and "Lazaris"?
Do you think Ramtha is no longer being channeled by JZ?
The reason I've asked the last question is that back in the late seventies, I was part of a group thaty" that provided a public "forum" for those talented with, for lack of a better word, "occult" abilities. One of our presenters was a healer. She had a great deal of experience with healers from the Philippines. During the presentation she made a comment that stood out for me. She said that whenever a healer became too greedy, he/she would lose their "gift".
I can accept the idea of a channel. However, as far as Ramtha is concerned, I have my doubts concerning a real"presence".
drunk people get a total different personalaty.the tibetan oracle is channeled.but how can you be shure who channels who.we all might be radiostations for conshesness.but channeling is too much an excuse for unresponsibility.ramtha said jz does that is a to convinient excuse for the most of the stuff which goes on at the ranch.does ramtha live a unfullfiled powertrip?is he actualy unable[not unwilling]to incarnate?a wise man in india told me.if you r unsure about a teacher whatch his followers[studentbody].well ramtha dissqualifies in my eyes totaly.for me ramtha is a construct out of jzs mind.unfortunatly it takes some time to find this out.and then you r brainwasched allready.
One needs actual proof. The proof should be in one's LIFE.
AFter my exit counseling, I was asked this very question, did I believe
I gave a very adamant , "NO!"
It took me another 4-5 months to actually
process this. Brutal, is what I would say
those 5 months to be in coming to terms
with this whole idea.
I adamantly say ,"NO!" now.
I find it utterly humbling when I think
of having dinner with my son and a friend
of his three years ago, and the kids were
making fun of Ramtha toasts.
(One actually does a hilarious immitation of JZ/R).
When I turned to the kids and said,
"You KNOW you won't say that right to Ramtha's face!"
The kids just looked at me. They said no more.
Today, I eat crow very humbly.
And it tastes nasty without any condiments
"Today, I eat crow very humbly."
I know the taste well,
a dash of garlic helps..
and keeps those pesky vampires away!!
And the old sage said..
Better to eat Crow!
Than Crow eating you....
I absolutely believe in channeling. I think the problem with society is everyone needs proof proof proof. How do you have proof of spirit. It is a hard thing to do but that doesn't mean spirit and channeling cannot happen nor does it mean that there is no life in other planets. Who are we to say what can and cannot happen just because it cannot be proof. I think it takes an open mind and maybe someday the field of Quantum physics will actually be able to prove things classical science cannot. Until then, I choose to have an open mind in the field of spirit.
well said, Jill.
Having just come from such a group,
it would be aboslute chaos in my mind
for me to even consider such a point
right now. I would be ready for the loony bin.
My mind has really been messed with.
Maybe ten years down the road, I may want to reconsider.
I also believe in Spirit,
a finer word perhaps...I call it The Divine.
Do you believe "Ramtha" exist?
if so.. why?
It really doesn't matter if you believe in channeling or not. In heaven and hell all is allowed.
It sort of like talking to the dead. It might be entertaining and novel but THEIR dead! There NOT here!
The question you have to ask yourself is? What can channeling do for me?
Here's what we all know about channeling.
It messes with your reality by promising results that you are not ready to experience....yet ......and until you make yourself ready to experience results, you are nothing more than a spectator watching and contributing to something that you should not be wanting to contribute to if you are truly after your own personal results.
Hi Jill ,
Thanks for contributing,
I'm sure a lot of people want to know why you so "absolutly" believe in channeling. I would be very interested in hearing how you became to absolutly believe in it.
"I absolutely believe in channeling. I think the problem with society is everyone needs proof proof proof.
I must say, here I disagree quite strongly, I think we are living in a society where very few are willing to ask for proof, I see nothing wrong with asking for proof if one is suggested to believe something. Without proof one must rely on faith which I veiw as different from belief it is a word that deines it better a belief without proof. Did you mean to say that you have 'faith " in channeling??
"How do you have proof of spirit. It is a hard thing to do but that doesn't mean spirit and channeling cannot happen nor does it mean that there is no life in other planets. Who are we to say what can and cannot happen just because it cannot be proof."
Hmmm.... how do you know you are really you??? how do you know you wrote this post??? how do you know I really responded??, perhaps someone came into my house and knocked me out and proceeded to write this reply....?etc.
But who are we to say??...
" I think it takes an open mind and maybe someday the field of Quantum physics will actually be able to prove things classical science cannot. "
Already has, matter of fact we would not be here doing what we are doing right now had it not already done that.
"Until then, I choose to have an open mind in the field of spirit."
It is already then, now what??
ferytales,inspirational tales,edjucational tales r part of ouer culture.how serious you take them or on which level you understand them is a personel choise.you dont need quantum mechanic to understand a cult.
Jill. As emf knows, I'm among the skeptics re channeling, but it comes after nearly 3 decades of looking at this phenomenon so close in the face to the point of putting up with a lot of bad breath and spittle spray.
I agree we live within a great mystery with probably 99% of reality occulted [hidden from our awareness, not just our senses]. So how can we say for sure that spirits talk through people or not? I certainly cannot, but for my sanity and ability to assess a situation I have had to make decisions about this.
That is what adults do....
When I was exiting a channeling cult in 1980, I researched 14 different people that claimed to channel Saint Germain, 5 that channeled Djaul Khul, etc. Guess what I found? Right. None of them agreed on details of dogma and each one reflected the knowledge base and social reality of the channeler.
This is why JZ was wise to trademark Ramtha... it is an act. If R were truly an "autonomous complex" [as Jung called spooks], he would easily reveal himself by himself----no need for a medium and trademark be ****ed. For the channeler's integrity, this is always a catch 22.
Upon testing channelers with extensive Q&A [not scientific instruments] when they would allow it----and this is rare that one would----I found that an independent spirit did not exist because it could not answer simple [I mean five year old level] questions that the channeler did not know.
One friend of mine, a maverick Anthroposophist, used to ask, if you are channeling Cleopatra, how do you know that it is not Cleopatra's gay cousin who liked to imitate her?
Just some thoughts, but like I said, this is my personal coping strategy in a very mysterious universe
what a lovely thread on this dark and rainy day! With knowledge of experience, IMO love offerings and opinionations formulated by some of the finest minds I know. (knowing persons Only as MIND from this forum site - extraordinary!)
What joins us in this web 'net' is that we all, at one time or another, believed in channelling. And based on evidence of such thread, continue on their journey, past this point of neediness of an external reference point. So many (and growing) to need only the One within. Still open to myriad possibility of Life itself. Bravo!
In many cases, poignantly remembering where Jill Mind is now, prior to one's most incredulous revelation that Quackery indeed was afoot.
So, it IS each in one's way, how openness got our OWN spirit here (internet, place of info/light) via Q physics and other sciences that were, in times long ago, myth or legend.
And I for one, prefer this forum's REVEALations, as discernment for future attacks is honed here. For I love my myths and legends pure, unadulterated by intermediaries who demonstrate dissonance & a disturbing lack of Truth in Self. I prefer my myth pastoral and loving, versus fearful, demeaning and righteous.
So from the garden of good and evil, dear, your choice is exactly that: WYSIWYG, what you see is what you get...
perhaps in due time.
I personally don't believe in channeling. For me it's just too unlikely. Like Joe said, none of these supposed channels can stand up to a real test and I just don't buy the whole 'you wouldn't believe it if I showed you anyway' thing.
Of course, logic would say that we can't know for sure that channeling (or whatever supernatural thing) isn't real. This is such a tricky catch and I think a crucial part of why very intelligent people get roped into these things - because they can conceive of the possibility.
Still, what have I lost if I live my life not believing in channeling? So what, if I one day find out it is for real? I don't see why I can't cross that bridge if I come to it. Notice I said if...
littlewiseone -- I agree -- it's all supposition and not something I feel I "have" to make a decision on.. I guess it only becomes an issue when something that consumes your life, like RSE, demands that you believe in it otherwise there would be no point in RSE, right??...
RIght - the only point in RSE being JR wants to be a billionaire!
Marie, it's interesting because I would have to say even when I was in RSE I wasn't necessarily a firm believer in channeling per se. If pressed, I probably would have staunchly determined that of course channeling is real, if nothing less, ramtha certainly was real to me. But even then, I probably would have admitted that I couldn't know for sure other than my (sorely misguided) gut feeling. It was more a matter of that it didn't really matter who was delivering the message because I believed the message itself to be the most important part. Just another thought terminating process, and a way to shut out common sense and critical thinking. Unfortunately, ramsters have an answer for everything, everything that doesn't count anyway.
It's late, but I cannot sleep until I searched for meaning and a response to your post..
Your post as it stands is not welcome on EMF.
Your contempt for Judith is understandable,
I am sure your sentiments are felt by others on this board..But..
Insulting and flaming remarks directed at Judith & Co is counter productive
Like water off a lizards back..it will only serve to quench its thirst….
The most common remark asked of me by RSE devotees is…
Why do I hate JZ Knight so much? I do not hate Judith and
There is no hate here on EMF..
EMF could not exist if there was such hatred.
I feel sad for Judith that so few in her presence will tell her the truth..
That the very poison that she is selling is destroying her own life,
This is plain to see.
Plume… You are welcome here..
I hope you will repost within our EMF guidelines.
You sound like you have quite a story to tell with regards to RSE.
Perhaps you'd be willing to post (within guidelines, without vitriol) about your journey into, during and after, RSE as you experienced it ?
Think about it.
actually, there are days I feel exactly like Plume.
I just don't think it was appropriate to direct it so much at Jill's current belief.
But there are days, esp when I go to the post office and get, "how DARE you?" looks from Ramsters, that I can think
of several ways I would like to see her suffer, and then some.
But those thoughts pass, and the true compassion comes about, because, truly, in the end, I feel for Jim Jones, Osama,
Hitler, et al. They must be miserable
wrecks near the end of their lives.
I think it is just human nature to want to see proper retaliation for inhumane gestures of any kind. Eye for and eye, mind for a mind, kind of thing.
Does anyone truly think that she will walk out on Hwy 507 ("enlightened highway" -as she wants it called) and say,
"Gee, I'm sorry. I repent. Here is some of
your money back, and here is some more money to help you recover" ?
I wouldn't want for Judith to experience anything more than a 'true' enlightenment. Knowledge of the pain her actions have cause would be unbearable for one with a conscience. As compassionate humans, regardless of how angry or disillusioned we are with another, if it is one's nature to be compassionate and humane-or one has gained this-after the 'thoughts' of whatever, one naturally turns to feeling for the one who has committed the atrocity. As awful as it might sound, when I saw the photograph of Hussein before he was executed, I still felt a pang of sorrow for him. Crazy, I know. His actions were monstrous, but he was human, too, and due to that, I still feel. Judi is obsessed, imo, with being the center of attention (just look at what occurs when one of her staff/students outdo her a la Micael Ledwith who received repeated standing ovations for his talk-and he now no longer teaches at the school - Joe Dispenza- JR won't even carry his book at her shop-is that petty or what? No, I don't hate her. She simply wouldn't be on my list of 'friends.'
Do you know for a fact that Miceal Ledwith is no longer on the staff?
I think there is a difference between being angry and hating.... I'm really angry with my sister right now for bringing my mother into RSE -- does that mean I hate my sister??... Well, I'm not feeling all that friendly with her, but I don't know that I hate her... I think it's hard for me right now to forgive and forget her actions, but those feelings are valid as they are what keep us from re-entering harmful situations... Having said that, I also guess I'm not "that evolved" yet that I feel compassion for JZ Knight.... Yes, I'm sorry for pain that was inflicted on her... and the tragic circumstances of her own childhood... any suffering is sad ....and while logically I ascribe to the idea that "we are all really one and she is a child of God as am I so therefore she deserves love" I'm just not there emotionally... Does that make me a bad person? Less evolved?? I think it just makes me human... and the God of my understanding knows that.
I think what you are feeling is very very valid.
At RSE, one is encouraged to "not be in your emotional body", so your sister and your mother would poo poo your feelings.
The whole idea though, to not be of your emotional body is absurd.
We are not friggin zombies or robots.
I would be very angry at my sister for having introduced my mother to RSE, because now you have lost both.
But your mother also take responsibility for her choices as well.
She has chosen RSE over her family.
I guaren-****-tee you, that if one or the other decided to leave RSE, the one still in
would choose RSE over family any day.
That is the mind set.
The more you give up, the more "enlightened" they think they are.
They are all full of crap.
Their minds have been twisted by a sociopathic narcissitic beyotch.
Make sure you keep yourself sane,
and if that includes feeling angry, then
that's what it takes.
I, for one, am glad you found EMF.
Thank you for your valued input.
Tree ... I wanted to thank you for your touching post to me.. It means a lot, brought tears to my eyes... I can't tell you ALL how much having you here, venting, talking things out, getting information, helping me process all of this, has meant to me... I would be floundering "out there" by myself while watching my mother and sister and other peripherial family members edge closer and closer to that RSE abyss... Thanks again, please know you have touched someone else emotionally in a comforting way... no small thing.
Do you know for a fact that Miceal Ledwith is no longer on the staff?''''
I know he doesn't speak during the beginner's events, follow-ups or primaries. He's on BTO now, I think? (need to check). However, he did mention perhaps back in November in a phone conference that he was an appointed teacher at RSE. But since then, have only seen him walking the field and no talks. His research on the orbs has been included in the Prophets group conferences, but of course, Jayzeek manages to put her own foot in mouth, er, the door I meant to say. I can't say Micael is off staff, but I don't know where he teaches these days other than other conferences, or BTO.
Whatever happened to the anesthesiologist, Karem (unsure of spelling), who was a teacher? Haven't seen him around for a long time.
Miceal Ledwith is still listed as a teacher. And there are two new teachers listed (Gary Craig and Mitja Kadow).
To my knowledge Karim never has been officially listed at the Ramtha homepage as a teacher.
As to Mitja: My friend who attended an event in Belgium in 2006 told me that Mitja was in charge of the event and that Ramtha appointed him as teacher and that he is now tested if he can do the work. So it seems that he has passed JZ test, for some time now he is officially listed on the homepage: http://www.ramtha.com/teachers/
I know Kareem teaches at beginning events and the husband wife team of
Louie and Michelle Enos are training to be teachers at beginning events, as well as Laura (moved from Red Guard to green lead). Gary had been the main escort of
"Ramtha" for years after Glenn Cunningham.
Gary had been teaching beginning events as well.
Mitja did move from being an "appointed" Red Guard to Green lead to teacher a few years ago.
Plus, I find it odd that JZ demands the teachers to practice, practice, practice all the disciplines so as to be proficient at them, yet, I have yet to have ever witnesses JZ to do them.
She might talk a big talk, but I have NEVER seen any action on her part.
And I have NEVER seen anyone rip cards down off the fence like Audrey- in 6 minutes...consistantly.
What a joke.
Does anyone know whatever happened to Audrey Wolf? She has been wiped from the BTO archives. Miceal Ledwith and Joe Dispenza are still there - BTO recommends Joee's book as well as advertising Miceal's books and work with orbs but Audrey has disappeared as if she never existed and she wss the only person who ever actually consistently had a result with the the RSE field work.
Audrey is still in town.
I had lunch with her a few weeks ago.
She still goes to her "required" events
that JZ gave her upon her dismissal from
the school.She is a fairly good friend of mine.
>>Whatever happened to the anesthesiologist, Karem <<
Hopefully, Kareem will smarten up and get outta Dodge himself. Once before, Kareem had "words" with Ramtha and he left the school for years. Last I spoke with him, he seemed quite entrenched. It just goes to show you how even a bright mind can be so brainwashed. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
I heard Kareem on BTO and he spent a better part of the interview talking in circles. It was as if he was trying to convince himself. People often mistake "intellectual talent" with "enlightemnent".He is being USED. I hope he stops waisting his time and mind with RSE and finds his way out.
That's the other part of the "pull" of the group. The people may be very intellectual, so much so they believe they are simply 'keeping an open mind.' They have instructors such as Karem, who is exceptionally intelligent, with quite an impressive background, and is an anesthesiologist to boot. Then there is Micael, an ex-monsignor in the Catholic Church, and so on. I have met people who are very highly educated buying into this, several MD's included. When people with these backgrounds "accept and teach" as truth what JR mandates, those with and without education and intellect and even common sense have an easier time "accepting" and being drawn into the brainwash. Were it not for the priest, I know I would have not accepted the 'channeling' at all. I ran to him for comfort, although he wasn't aware of the reason, when "R" came out, because it was so distressing to me. Yet, I went back again and again. It IS amazing people with all this education readily accept it. I though, well-just perhaps in some "wild and magical" way-these people were 'given' experiences/miracles by the great and wonderful "R"-experiences they cannot share-eeek! How could I believe this? I thought I was being open-minded, which I really do try to be, but the suspension of critical thinking creates androids. This is what I remember about the field-the marching and voices of 'droids-because they were told to.
One thing I found astounding was in reading one of the students' book was "Ramtha (TM) 'discussed' her being married again for all eternity to her husband (by JR of course) -that "R" discussed this with her god? Hells bells. She couldn't make this decision within her higher knowingness or 'gut' feel? Someone else has to talk to her god for HER? So what's the difference here? In organized religions, we have the priests as the 'go-between.' In RSE, they have "the hierophant" wearing the curtain" as the go-between. I remember thinking, talk to your vision of God yourself, "oh my heck!"
I agree with the above posters and hope Karem and others of his stature take THEIR blindfolds off, and regain their critical thinking skills. I've had many 'magical' moments in my life before and after RSE, and the credit is my own, full stop.
I've now come to the place going through this where I know the only real thing is love, even that which is difficult to love, and we are greater than our bodies alone. Here's the thing. I knew that before RSE. RSE made me doubt mysSELF.
I thank this place, full of courageous people and the higher sense of me, in knowing something was just not 'right.'
Guess I'm not on JZKR's 'frequency,' thank God! But I've got my own tune to play.