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AFter my exit counseling, I was asked this very question, did I believe
Ramtha existed?
I gave a very adamant , "NO!"
It took me another 4-5 months to actually
process this. Brutal, is what I would say
those 5 months to be in coming to terms
with this whole idea.
I adamantly say ,"NO!" now.
I find it utterly humbling when I think
of having dinner with my son and a friend
of his three years ago, and the kids were
making fun of Ramtha toasts.
(One actually does a hilarious immitation of JZ/R).
When I turned to the kids and said,
"You KNOW you won't say that right to Ramtha's face!"
The kids just looked at me. They said no more.
Today, I eat crow very humbly.
And it tastes nasty without any condiments
I absolutely believe in channeling. I think the problem with society is everyone needs proof proof proof. How do you have proof of spirit. It is a hard thing to do but that doesn't mean spirit and channeling cannot happen nor does it mean that there is no life in other planets. Who are we to say what can and cannot happen just because it cannot be proof. I think it takes an open mind and maybe someday the field of Quantum physics will actually be able to prove things classical science cannot. Until then, I choose to have an open mind in the field of spirit.
Hi Jill ,
Thanks for contributing,
I'm sure a lot of people want to know why you so "absolutly" believe in channeling. I would be very interested in hearing how you became to absolutly believe in it.
"I absolutely believe in channeling. I think the problem with society is everyone needs proof proof proof.
I must say, here I disagree quite strongly, I think we are living in a society where very few are willing to ask for proof, I see nothing wrong with asking for proof if one is suggested to believe something. Without proof one must rely on faith which I veiw as different from belief it is a word that deines it better a belief without proof. Did you mean to say that you have 'faith " in channeling??
"How do you have proof of spirit. It is a hard thing to do but that doesn't mean spirit and channeling cannot happen nor does it mean that there is no life in other planets. Who are we to say what can and cannot happen just because it cannot be proof."
Hmmm.... how do you know you are really you??? how do you know you wrote this post??? how do you know I really responded??, perhaps someone came into my house and knocked me out and proceeded to write this reply....?etc.
But who are we to say??...
" I think it takes an open mind and maybe someday the field of Quantum physics will actually be able to prove things classical science cannot. "
Already has, matter of fact we would not be here doing what we are doing right now had it not already done that.
"Until then, I choose to have an open mind in the field of spirit."
It is already then, now what??
Jill. As emf knows, I'm among the skeptics re channeling, but it comes after nearly 3 decades of looking at this phenomenon so close in the face to the point of putting up with a lot of bad breath and spittle spray.
I agree we live within a great mystery with probably 99% of reality occulted [hidden from our awareness, not just our senses]. So how can we say for sure that spirits talk through people or not? I certainly cannot, but for my sanity and ability to assess a situation I have had to make decisions about this.
That is what adults do....
When I was exiting a channeling cult in 1980, I researched 14 different people that claimed to channel Saint Germain, 5 that channeled Djaul Khul, etc. Guess what I found? Right. None of them agreed on details of dogma and each one reflected the knowledge base and social reality of the channeler.
This is why JZ was wise to trademark Ramtha... it is an act. If R were truly an "autonomous complex" [as Jung called spooks], he would easily reveal himself by himself----no need for a medium and trademark be ****ed. For the channeler's integrity, this is always a catch 22.
Upon testing channelers with extensive Q&A [not scientific instruments] when they would allow it----and this is rare that one would----I found that an independent spirit did not exist because it could not answer simple [I mean five year old level] questions that the channeler did not know.
One friend of mine, a maverick Anthroposophist, used to ask, if you are channeling Cleopatra, how do you know that it is not Cleopatra's gay cousin who liked to imitate her?
Just some thoughts, but like I said, this is my personal coping strategy in a very mysterious universe
Joe
what a lovely thread on this dark and rainy day! With knowledge of experience, IMO love offerings and opinionations formulated by some of the finest minds I know. (knowing persons Only as MIND from this forum site - extraordinary!)
What joins us in this web 'net' is that we all, at one time or another, believed in channelling. And based on evidence of such thread, continue on their journey, past this point of neediness of an external reference point. So many (and growing) to need only the One within. Still open to myriad possibility of Life itself. Bravo!
In many cases, poignantly remembering where Jill Mind is now, prior to one's most incredulous revelation that Quackery indeed was afoot.
So, it IS each in one's way, how openness got our OWN spirit here (internet, place of info/light) via Q physics and other sciences that were, in times long ago, myth or legend.
And I for one, prefer this forum's REVEALations, as discernment for future attacks is honed here. For I love my myths and legends pure, unadulterated by intermediaries who demonstrate dissonance & a disturbing lack of Truth in Self. I prefer my myth pastoral and loving, versus fearful, demeaning and righteous.
So from the garden of good and evil, dear, your choice is exactly that: WYSIWYG, what you see is what you get...
perhaps in due time.
RIght - the only point in RSE being JR wants to be a billionaire!
I wouldn't want for Judith to experience anything more than a 'true' enlightenment. Knowledge of the pain her actions have cause would be unbearable for one with a conscience. As compassionate humans, regardless of how angry or disillusioned we are with another, if it is one's nature to be compassionate and humane-or one has gained this-after the 'thoughts' of whatever, one naturally turns to feeling for the one who has committed the atrocity. As awful as it might sound, when I saw the photograph of Hussein before he was executed, I still felt a pang of sorrow for him. Crazy, I know. His actions were monstrous, but he was human, too, and due to that, I still feel. Judi is obsessed, imo, with being the center of attention (just look at what occurs when one of her staff/students outdo her a la Micael Ledwith who received repeated standing ovations for his talk-and he now no longer teaches at the school - Joe Dispenza- JR won't even carry his book at her shop-is that petty or what? No, I don't hate her. She simply wouldn't be on my list of 'friends.'
''''G2G,
Do you know for a fact that Miceal Ledwith is no longer on the staff?''''
I know he doesn't speak during the beginner's events, follow-ups or primaries. He's on BTO now, I think? (need to check). However, he did mention perhaps back in November in a phone conference that he was an appointed teacher at RSE. But since then, have only seen him walking the field and no talks. His research on the orbs has been included in the Prophets group conferences, but of course, Jayzeek manages to put her own foot in mouth, er, the door I meant to say. I can't say Micael is off staff, but I don't know where he teaches these days other than other conferences, or BTO.
Whatever happened to the anesthesiologist, Karem (unsure of spelling), who was a teacher? Haven't seen him around for a long time.
That's the other part of the "pull" of the group. The people may be very intellectual, so much so they believe they are simply 'keeping an open mind.' They have instructors such as Karem, who is exceptionally intelligent, with quite an impressive background, and is an anesthesiologist to boot. Then there is Micael, an ex-monsignor in the Catholic Church, and so on. I have met people who are very highly educated buying into this, several MD's included. When people with these backgrounds "accept and teach" as truth what JR mandates, those with and without education and intellect and even common sense have an easier time "accepting" and being drawn into the brainwash. Were it not for the priest, I know I would have not accepted the 'channeling' at all. I ran to him for comfort, although he wasn't aware of the reason, when "R" came out, because it was so distressing to me. Yet, I went back again and again. It IS amazing people with all this education readily accept it. I though, well-just perhaps in some "wild and magical" way-these people were 'given' experiences/miracles by the great and wonderful "R"-experiences they cannot share-eeek! How could I believe this? I thought I was being open-minded, which I really do try to be, but the suspension of critical thinking creates androids. This is what I remember about the field-the marching and voices of 'droids-because they were told to.
One thing I found astounding was in reading one of the students' book was "Ramtha (TM) 'discussed' her being married again for all eternity to her husband (by JR of course) -that "R" discussed this with her god? Hells bells. She couldn't make this decision within her higher knowingness or 'gut' feel? Someone else has to talk to her god for HER? So what's the difference here? In organized religions, we have the priests as the 'go-between.' In RSE, they have "the hierophant" wearing the curtain" as the go-between. I remember thinking, talk to your vision of God yourself, "oh my heck!"
I agree with the above posters and hope Karem and others of his stature take THEIR blindfolds off, and regain their critical thinking skills. I've had many 'magical' moments in my life before and after RSE, and the credit is my own, full stop.
I've now come to the place going through this where I know the only real thing is love, even that which is difficult to love, and we are greater than our bodies alone. Here's the thing. I knew that before RSE. RSE made me doubt mysSELF.
I thank this place, full of courageous people and the higher sense of me, in knowing something was just not 'right.'
Guess I'm not on JZKR's 'frequency,' thank God! But I've got my own tune to play.
