Hi

I have some questions:

Now Ramtha is speaking all over the world about the days to come. I started out feeling a lot of fear for my family, friends and a lot of people I know. I´ve walked around in my hometown and talked to my neighbours, the butcher, the woman in the supermarked whilst I was thinking: poor people, they don´t know they are going to die! In two years I am not going to see them again. I´ll be the only one surviving! All that people haven´t got a clue on what is coming.

I went to an event and was trying to find comfort from other students or the teachings for my fear of losing everybody. The answer I got is that I would get used to it and that is something I must start to live with. I was appalled. At this point I started to get alarm-signals from my inner self. Like if something was not really making sense or not right in what I am doing/thinking.

After that I have studied a lot of things about the days to come: how to find a house, away from my city, building an UG and how the world is going to look like after aprox 2009. I came to this conclusion: I see myself all alone (no family nor friends) in the midst of an glacier - it is iceage - freezing and eating out of tins of stocked foodstuffs I have achieved for the days to come, no electricity, no possibility to grow anything and suffering under a nuclear winter. I´m not so sure now that I want to live that!

Well now I have found your webpage and I´m very interested in reading experiences from former students. I am curious about how a person can leave a whole life behind to seek something he sees as a truth and how is the process of deception? What did that person see, hear, experience to make him/her change his/her mind so drastically after so many years in the school?

You see, until now I have believed blindly in Ramtha, but I´m staring to doubt.

I heard the "Days to Come" Teachings (1987), the tapes in 1988.
Within 4 months, not ever having "seen"
Ramtha (copyrighted), I moved lock, stock and barrel to Yelm. Poof.
I was in RSE for 19 years.
I took a small break last year,as the staff had been laid off for two months.
I decided not to go to my "required" follow-up (which was scary, because I took great pride in never having been
"not current").
It was during that brief few months away
that I had some space to just be.
I then ran into a former student and asked
them why they no longer went to the school.
They directed me to this site.
The first time on it, I call it my day of awakening as it was intense, painful, relieving, and chokingly freeing, that I realized I had been in a "cohersive persuasvie" (aka cult) group for that entire time.
As gradually as I could (it was very very
difficult to swallow), I read everything
I could find on the topic.
I feel like a sincere advocate for informing and educating people on
the topic of such groups -just as much
as I was a sincere student and felt
very much the same way you described, talking to my neighbors, etc, doing my
disciplines, building my UG (twice) etc.

I had a brief conversation with my neighbor yesterday, who has been in school quite a long time, who knows my current view on the school being a cult,
but for some reason, she still believes I believe in the DTC.
Yet, she has not had the funds to prepare,
nor the income, and just told me yesterday
that she will never see her kids again
because they do not know about the
"imminent" changes. And her bi-polar grandson
will most likely "not make it at all, and I want to give him the best year
and a half he has left."

I know where she was coming from, but seeing
these views after several months of
processing was just mind boggling to
observe.

Keep asking questions, keep reading, look
at the associated links and references here
on this site.
We are here to support each other.

That is my story.

Thanks a lot Tree.

I´m starting to see things now. I´m fresh in this new view of things, but it seems to be more and more clear for me each moment.

I´m not having many difficulties with it as I didn´t sacrifice very much or changed my life in any way (but was about to). Just something in me is telling me all this is somehow not right. It has just been a couple of days ago I have had this insight. So I´m pondering on it.

The resort which put this feeling in motion in me was that I couldn´t tell my family about the DTC. What should I tell them? I got the information from a 35,000 year old warrior channelled through a woman? I was supposed to just accept they were going to die!

I can´t do that. So now I came across this web site where I can share my feelings.

Thanks again

The process of deception involves a few different processes. For example, when "Ramtha" is lecturing "he" speaks in a cadence which is intended to promote a trance in the listener. The pacing back and forth across the stage is also rhythmic, hence hypnotic. This is a technique called "Ericksonian hypnosis" and you can learn more about it by searching "Milton Erickson" at www.wikipedia.org. The purpose of the trance is to turn off the conscious mind which is capable of questioning what is being said. ("Ramtha" calls that doubt.) Instead of asking mental questions the listener simply accepts "Ramtha's" statements without evaluating them. Does it really make sense to you that the world will "end" in 2009? No, it does not make sense but it sure does frighten a person which makes them feel vulnerable and even more inclined to follow "Ramtha's" advice. Fear induces a sense of panic and loss of confidence. JZ's game is about controlling innocent and naive people. Generating fear is one of the tactics. A fearful person is more highly suggestible and can therefore be more easily controlled. Do you see how advantageous it is to induce fear?

The most important thing is to think for yourself and yes, "Ramtha" does say that except when "he" says it "he" is really saying, "You're thinking for yourself if you do what I say."

Another process of deception is the disciplines. They are all designed to turn off your conscious mind (that part of you which would question) and make the participant more suggestible. "Ramtha" says that this is how a person "creates their own reality." The simple fact is that people do not create their own reality but it sure does sound good so it is something a person may be inclined to believe (think Santa Claus.) What people do create is how they respond to their reality.

Some RSE students believe the disciplines "work" because they find their cards on the field. Yes, you will find your card some of the time in the same way that when you flip a coin and call it heads or tails it will match your call. It is called statistical odds but innocent people without an understanding of this concept will "believe" "Ramtha" when "he" says, "You are developing spiritual power." The fact is that you are not developing spiritual power. What is being developed is a psychological dependence on RSE. Gotcha!

Any group which is based on authoritarian control is dangerous for the participant. What exactly is authoritarian control and how can you recognize it? Authoritarian control is one way. There is no meaningful questioning allowed. Have you heard anyone arguing with "Ramtha?" Is any of "Ramtha's" information considered disputable? How is it that "Ramtha" is so certain that the world will collapse in 2009? Doesn't that contradict "his" statement that you "create your own reality?"

"The resort which put this feeling in motion in me was that I couldn´t tell my family about the DTC. What should I tell them? I got the information from a 35,000 year old warrior channelled through a woman? I was supposed to just accept they were going to die!

I can´t do that. So now I came across this web site where I can share my feelings."


Morgana, this shows that you still have some of your critical thinking faculties. It's also reassuring that you still have the the affection and love for your family intact. Unfortunately, given time it's likely that you would just 'accept' that they are all going to die. You are fortunate that you can listen to the little voice inside that is telling you: BS! For whatever reasons, some (maybe many) of were not able to consider our families when we were in the cult and this makes me sad. What great masters could we possibly have been without love and human decency intact? Oh, I guess we were sending them blue light and that makes up for the life we missed sharing with them, yah right! And of course we would always have welcomed them into our UG, if they only would 'get it' in time...

I had a friend in the school who always said that my family would 'wake up' when the crap hit the fan, as in DTC or political chaos, etc. Secretly, I was hoping for these things to come to pass just so they would see the light! As insane as that is, it's also telling how much I wished to be reunited with them but that simply wasn't acceptable under the existing terms... sad.

For any of you who don't know I am in a relationship with a member of RSE. One thing I do not understand (and I can't ask my partner or it will turn into World War 3) If Ramsters create their own reality why would any prophecy be of interest unless thats what they want to happen? It just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Do they want to live in a world like that?

Well, it does make them feel special and important and that is a part of the psychological manipulation and mental indoctrination.

the state of the earth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL6SD1IdnzQ

Can anyone explain the "timeline" teaching? Do RSE students now think they can change to a different timeline if they wish to? If so, why not just change timelines instead of building a UG?

onehanded-
to see the dichotomy of the timeline
thing and the need for a UG would
require the skill of
critical thinking.
That is TOTALLY removed when
in a cult.
yes, it makes no sense

"Why not just change timelines instead of building a UG?"

Yes, good question! Why not? Changing timelines is certainly a "Ramtha" teaching. In fact I was at an event where he proclaimed, "When the end gets near I will give you the codes to focus upon to get out of here!"

So who needs a UG? The all powerful "Ram" is going to make it all happen (as long as you are a current student and paying money to attend events.)

In the light of "Ramtha's" spiritual teachings the UG thing makes no sense at all. My take on it is that at least 2 purposes are served for JZ. First of all, it keeps people busy and preocupied and fear based. (Cults are about minimizing critical thinking, remember? There is no time to ask questions because there is too much to do!) The construction of UGs also acts as a baromter to give her an idea of how much control she has over the flock. Are they doing what "Ramtha" tells them even though it is in contradiction to what "Ramtha" teaches? That is powerful feedback for her.

I don't know it for a fact but I would guess JZ has financial interests in some of the UG related businesses that flourish around town. She is a sharp businesswoman and this only makes sense, er, I mean, money.

Great, great book: "When Prophecy Fails" by Leo Festinger. The true story of an "end of the world group" which was infiltrated by social scientists who studied the participants in an effort to understand how it was they were willing to believe the world was ending. There are so many parallels to RSE it is hard to put the book down. (And this group believed the world would end in the 1950's.)

I know of ex-students who have asked current students, as well as current asking current, WHY it makes sense to "buy into" (on many levels) the Build A U.G. to save your hide in the DTCome. The answers that others and myself have heard, have been along the line of the reality that has already been created in the void is so close to manifesting (has such great momentum), that it's bigger than we are and must manifest. (Okay, so we Goddies are little, limited goddies, not Unlimited-you-can-create-ANYTHING-Big-Goddies)

ALSO, that means that Ramtha and his LEGIONS of all-powerful Gods-in-all-powerful-spaceships are either 1) non-existent, 2) don't give a crap to save us if we need help, despite that they looooooove us (insert sarcasm), 3) aren't powerful enough to manifest Anything.

It's just more discrepancy between the teachings that students are ALL powerful due to the Knowledge Ramtha has given their special selves, and what the reality in this world bears itself out to be. Fantasy.

If you need an UNDERGROUND HOUSE to hide in because of the loooooooooooong predicted doom-and-gloom predictions, then you are NOT a powerful, manifesting Goddie.

Save your money and stop going to events, and go retire to sunny Florida and ENJOY LIFE !

How much ya wanna bet JZ is going to retire Ramtha and position herself in a place where she continues to rake in the bucks if she can, and leave her past behind her without losing a wink of sleep ? When that happens, the Yelmsters will ... maybe ... get a clue about their worth to "Ramtha", eh ? SAD !

She has "threatened" going to France, a few times. I'm bettin' on Asia. Time will tell.

Hi

I believe this is not the first time Ramtha speaks about the days to come, but didn´t he say some date in the past and it didn´t pass?

How did students react?

I was currently living in CA in 1999 and I was told that when 2000 came everything was going to go hay wired. Nothing happen. Then I was told that on May 5, 2000, that 2/3 of the world would be destroyed.

I lived in total fear during that time, I left CA before 2000 and moved to WA. When May 5th came around we were all told to go to the highest mountain and take tools, food and everything that you could take because you would not be able to return to your home, it would be destroyed.

I walked around feeling sad and depressed because I would never see the people that were in my life after that; it was the worst time in my life. Well May 5th came around, nothing happen, the next week R gave an event and never talked about it.

Shortly after that I left the school because I felt that this person was into fear, control and destroying lives. If he was so enlighted, why all of the lies, over and over and over again.

If he could see the future, why tell people to leave everything and go to a moutain top. You are talking about people lives, they left there jobs, sold there homes in other states, walked away from there family and loves one, lived a very simple life because R told them too and nothing happen. We were told, the only safe place to shop was JZ store, don't leave Yelm or travel. The sad thing is people listen, including me. RSE is into mind control...

It is obvious that the world is going through changes and it makes sense to change, but do it in a healthy way. Do not listen to Ramtha; he has played this game for years. The only different now is that he has people from around the world like Gore saying change this world and go green because we are killing the planet and that is true, we need to change and make a different. But I will never live in FEAR again.

Also, after Sept 11th, he played the same game, the world is coming to end and when the war started. He told people not to leave there homes for two years and to tape up your window and don’t do to your mail boxes, grocery stores, don’t go anywhere.

People did just that and I remember that JZ had forgotten to get a turkey for thanksgiving and she said R said that it is ok to go to the store for a couple of hours to get your food stuff, but then you had to go back home and not leave until he said that it was ok again.

I don’t understand RSE, but I no this, I would never listen to anything they have to say and I would never allow him to control me the way that I did before.

I was innocent and I believe in him because I thought he was enlightened but he misuses his power and he deeply hurt and destroyed people lives. It has taken a lot to deprogram myself from this tyrant and what I have learned is the greatest lesson, never allow anyone come into my life and do what he did.

If you love yourself, LEAVE RSE NOW AND DEPROGRAM YOURSELF NOW. THIS IS THE GREATEST GIFT YOU CAN GIVE TO YOURSELF. Don't live your life looking at your loves one thinking how you will not see them in a couple of years and how sad they will be destoyed and you will live because you think you are special because you are some Ramster.

Be smart and realizes yes the world is going through changes, and the world will always go through changes. Mother nature is powerful and she can wipe out this entire world in a moment.

Prepare yourself in a smart way, sure put up food stuff, go green, do your part, buy gold, but don't
listen to Ramtha.

You are crazy if you live your life everyday looking into the eyes of love ones and thinking how you can not tell them what is going to happen and how they are going to die...WAKE UP AND RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN FROM RAMTHA AND JZ.

Thank you, naturegirl.

You are welcome

Naturegirl what an honest heartfelt message. You have obviously managed to leave all the Ramtha speak behind, you write with real clarity.

EyesWideOpen wrote: "The construction of UGs also acts as a baromter to give her an idea of how much control she has over the flock. Are they doing what "Ramtha" tells them even though it is in contradiction to what "Ramtha" teaches? That is powerful feedback for her."

What an astute observation, I've never really considered it that way.

While I was in the school, I was lucky (or unlucky) to have friends who didn't wholly buy into the days to come thing. Well for one, none of us had money... so on one hand it may have just been sour grapes, lol. But we would often talk about why ramtha was telling us about the whole dtc thing and how it doesn't gel with C&E=R. Our conclusion was that 'he' was testing our belief in creating our reality, challenging us to be even more sincere about our focus. Well, that's one way to justify it... just goes to show that you CAN question within the cult and still come out never truly shaking your own foundation. Btw, isn't getting to the root of things such an element of the teachings? How is it that gets so easily forgotten when it doesn't serve to further the school...?

Tree! I am sitting here laughing tears over that video!!

EyesWideOpen wrote: "The construction of UGs also acts as a baromter to give her an idea of how much control she has over the flock. Are they doing what "Ramtha" tells them even though it is in contradiction to what "Ramtha" teaches? That is powerful feedback for her."

Litllewiseone wrote: “Our conclusion was that 'he' was testing our belief in creating our reality, challenging us to be even more sincere about our focus……... just goes to show that you CAN question within the cult and still come out never truly shaking your own foundation”

Wow.I had never even considered these points.
I am just now seeing that SEEMINGLY more “sincere” students could possibly have been the ones
most influenced (such as myself), and thusly, more
of the core of their foundations shaken. I think it’s more of a buy in of the abuse cycle Graced mentioned.
For “R” to constantly berate students and repeatedly say: you are no where NEAR enlightenment,
You have not been sincere enough in your disciplines and non doubt, so you NEED those
Undergrounds!!
thank you littlewiseone for all your
astute insights.
Finally, Tree.....Ding!Ding!Ding!

Hi

I wanted to share this on this forum:

Yesterday I met some ramsters. I intended give back some books and to say that I don´t believe the DTC will take place, at least not in 2 years. They never listened to me. They intend to build a community of several families and many of them will sell their houses to go there.

One of them had a nervious breakdown a couple of weeks ago. She fell unconscious on the ground. The doctor said it was due to accute stress generated by fear. I´m worried about this woman.

As I couldn´t get through to the people yesterday, I just observed and listened:

- a tree, on the ground they want to buy, has its own energy because it lights in the night (I saw the picture and a flashlight from a camera can work wonders)

- one saw an UFO right above her head. (there is a landingplace for helicopters not far from that place)

- Atlantis existed and there is evidence for it


- the trees on that ground they wanted to buy got angry because someone said they might be cut down
(should be careful about teasing trees)


And so own. The more they spoke, the more quiet I became. Sometimes a little nervous, as I couldn´t accept many of the things that were said. Finally I left.

Morgana,

"Yesterday I met some ramsters. I intended give back some books and to say that I don´t believe the DTC will take place, at least not in 2 years. They never listened to me. They intend to build a community of several families and many of them will sell their houses to go there. "

There is probably no greater instrument to use then the fear of ones survival, to aid in disintigrating ones personality. This is because (IMHO) the basis of all life is to survive and continue. When one is faced with a survival situation, many thoughts that they might never had entertained previously come into play.

In the book Alive, the passengers were compelled to eat their fellow passengers bodies to survive. This is an extreme example of how strong and primal this instinct is.

However, because we are humans and not animals, along with the survival behavior comes guilt and shame.

This is one of the reasons that many LGAT groups use the lifeboat question..
"I you were in a lifeboat with your mother, father, daughter and could only save one of them which one would it be?"

A question like this puts one into a MANIPULATED fear enviornment, just thinking about it creates fear and self doubt and that is the purpose of exercises like this.

The group creates the fear and self doubt which in turn creates an amount of guilt and shame (these are not good feelings to carry around) and then through other manipulative means removes them to make one feel better. Hence the addictive nature of having to return to the group and its "teachings".

The orbs, ufos, greymen, lizard guys (and gals?), government mind control sex slaves, Dumtha being able to send one runners in ones dreams or daily lives, earth changes, DTC etc. are all designed to bring one to the point of feeling their survival is threatened.

The UG's, becoming God, storing food, gold, cash, water are all meant to bring one the "feeling" that they are more in control. in fact though, one becomes less likely to be able to recognize the difference between real or percieved threats and is actually in a weaker position to survive a real event.

One example of this real and percieved threat I witnessed when up in yelm during the time of the Los angeles riots. Since tv and newspapers were scorned, the people I was around were not even aware of what was going on.

Cargo planes kept flying over the place I was staying. They all got upset, because the planes were lying lower then they were supposed to. They made such a big deal about calling fort lewis to complain and spent the better part of a day dealing with it. Meanwhile, the planes kept flying.

Perhaps they were flying so low because they were filled with tanks and troops headed to Los Angeles, I cannot be certain, but I can be certain that that is where they were headed and were carrying troops and supplies.

I left to go and have a drink (and I am not really a drinker!) in a bar and watched on tv as the troops rolled into the streets, it could have been a country like lebenon!. I remember thinking to myself; "Here are the type of people who would make a stand about the military being used against its own people and where are they??? Sitting around, arguing with some beaurocrat about the height that planes are supposed to be flying! All because their wires had been crossed by the implanted fear by JZ/and Dumtha.

While anyone of these people had the potential of being like the young chinese student who stood in front of the Tank in Tennimen Sq. Their potential had been squashed and surpressed to focus on small unimportant minutia so that they could keep on coming back, be blindfolded, spend cash not only on the teachings, but the extention of the teachings which is the "survival economy"
run by those cashing in on others fears.

very well said.....
excellent.....

I beginning to see that we've been given a golden opportunity to see this 'frauds' and so-called channelers, for what they really are because if another would should up trying to convince us that they are so high and mighty and enlighten...we'll see right through them.

I'm certain the only real truth about the 'endtimes' is that "we'll know them (these fake teachers) by their ways." Now that is a prophecy, that I came across (of all places) while researching the bible.

Quote from WideEyesShut: "Yes, good question! Why not? Changing timelines is certainly a "Ramtha" teaching. In fact I was at an event where he proclaimed, "When the end gets near I will give you the codes to focus upon to get out of here!""

LOL, oh, so a person has to keep spending thousands of dollars in order to get the codes to be free to leave. And just where do they go from here, if such, end times, happens.

Again, if a person can change timelines and create whatever and where ever they want, why don't they just go 'puff' and comeback and tell us what's happening on the other timeline.

Can a channeller or guru or so-called ascended master, blink their eyes like 'I Dream of Jennie,' or wiggle their nose like 'Bewitched,' and make something happen instantly before your eyes. If not, stick to what you know is real, like, Hollywoods version of magic -- as least you know it's Bullsh#t at the end of a carrot stick.

But I'm not angry at being duped.

yes, do not be angry!
I know I was angry at myself for not figuring this out sooner when I broke with CUT in 1980 after over a year. The psychology of doooooomm prophecies is very clever because it draws on everyone's certain knowledge that we are all doomed to die anyway. The fear is that it will come prematurely based on some event and the promise is that we can somehow cheat the event by knowing ahead of time. These prophets always add a magical way to cheat death---if you follow me you will not die, you will go to heaven or ascend or break the wheel of rebirth or comfortably slip into the Void or whatever.
I know, this is a basic Christian thing too and I'm Christian but I am not a "Left Behind" paranoid Christian, and that is the difference. Doom prophets in cults create paranoia to better control the devotees. The reality of death is exaggerated by offering magical, group technique means to avoid it. The issue is about undue influence, malignant manipulation and brainwashing and how much of it exists in your group or cult, about how much freedom you exercise under influences that exist everywhere you turn in life.
Joe

I am reminded of something someone I used to know who worked in the prisons used to tell me... He worked with deathrow inmates and used to say that all of them talked about "not being submissive to authority" and "having the freedom to whatever they wanted"... "not playing by everyone else's rules"... but in the end, all of their breaking the rules in the name of freedom, got them no freedom at all.

Thanks a lot for those posts.

I feel a little angry with myself because of believing all those things. I consider myself quite intelligent, maybe a little ingenue.

Well, in any case, I´ve bought "Take back your life", the book Joe recommended.

Morgana-
that book has been my Bible the past 5 months.
The more time I recover and process,
the more that book hits home.
Take it at your own pace.
The stories written by former members
were just eye opening, to say the least.

Thanks Tree.

Hi! I'm new here and I'm here because my girlfriend and some other friends of ours are considering moving to Yelm in the next few years because of the 2009 predictions.

I want to ask what the connections arebetween the May 5th 2000 predictions and Ramtha. Google searches and my prior knowledge about May 5 takes me mostly to the book written by Richard Noone and to some other guy with three names (Gabriel something?)

Did Ramtha advocate/himself talk about these predictions? What about the Australia tidal wave? And what is Ramtha's association with the Survival Center in McKenna?

I'm asking because I would like as many concrete examples as possible of Ramtha's predictions being innaccurate/being associated with nuts. I'd really like to stop my grilfrien dfrom leaving her life with me for a life that is not going to happen

also, is there a way to register for this message board or do I type my name in each time?

The first days to come predictions were about 1986 during an "Intensive". The dtc info was erased from the audio tapes that went out - after the first wave of those who paid to automatically receive audio tapes. Then began an intense period of "intensives" re the dtc - buy land, raise your own food, have animals to feed and transport you, have alternate energy. About '90/'91 in a 'special' 'called' meeting - i.e. unscheduled - those gathered were told to build undergrounds - to store food - because hard times were coming and marauders from the cities would come to the country in search of food. Everybody has a different version as to the why of undergrounds. Somewhere along the line, the undergrounds were to be made suitable to live in. We were warned not to travel. At every "required Event" we were told this may be the last time we would be able to travel to Yelm. It's a great marketing tool for having reason to call special events and have people attend as many 'evening events' as possible, 'cause it could be the last. I think, and more recent folks could speak better to this, the dtc thing slowed down in the late 90's - until 9/11. And thus began the most recent revival of the very same dtc predictions that were given in 1986.
In the 80's, before internet, it was easier for JZ to get away with dtc scare tactics - now all media is filled with dtc scare tactics - from terrorists to volcanoes to asteroids - choose your death fear....
In those intense years of the late 80's the most frequent question asked was "oh Ramtha should I move?" During those years I heard too many stories of people who dashed off somewhere to be safe only to die on the way. ... Ramtha's answers were never precise or clear - except a sarcastic - it's stupid to live on a fault line. Recently, of course, there is the intense encouragement to move to Yelm. JZ needs a political power base and steady income.
Which is not to say that WA isn't a great place to live - but so's where you are.

zyxwv -- sometimes my name pops up on the reply post form and sometimes it doesn't -- not sure why -- I go between two different computers so not sure if it's a "cookie" thing or just a quirk....

I don't have answers to your other questions -- but many here are very knowledgeable in regard to those specific questions and I'm sure someone can help you. I have relatives who are planning on moving to Yelm and I understand your concern.... How long has your girlfriend been involved in RSE? From what I've read on this board, R has been predicting disasterous changes in the earth for years... some predictions nothing more outstanding than what other people knowledgeable in the fields of earth studies predict -- in other words, anything you can get yourself by doing a little research... and those predictions that are more outlandish haven't happened... From what I'm learning, part of the "schtick" of cults is to induce a fear that makes the believer dependent on the leader, the group and the teachings... "end of the world" themes are common.... I just found out today my mother has been buying silver and Canadian maple gold on Amazon....sigh.

zxywv - I'm sorry to hear about your girlfriend and friends... I hope there is something here that will help you in your attempt to persuade them from throwing their lives away.

5/5/2000 - In general, I never really bought into the whole days to come stuff when I was in the school but for some reason (maybe with time I got worn down) I bought into the 5/5/2000 thing. I even got the weekend off work so we could 'seek higher ground'. Basically, if I remember correctly there was going to be some shift in the planet and all hell was going to break loose (blah, blah, blah, you've heard it all before). I never did read the book and perhaps it wasn't so much that I bought into it but that I figured it wouldn't hurt to be on the safe side.

In any event we had a fun camping trip, lol. At the very time that this polar shift was supposed to happen, we were all standing around the campfire when....


.....drum roll....


.....nothing happened!! Actually, it was funny - and it is possible that someone will construe this to be an endorsement of the 5/5/2000 conspiracy crap, and for anyone who does that I am truly sorry for you, I only include it here to make a point about how much I wanted to believe this stuff - at the very time that the shift was supposed to happen, there was a dark cloud that appeared on the horizon of an otherwise fairly clear sky. Slowly, this cloud crept across the sky and over us until night fell. Nothing terribly unusually for the notoriously temperamental NW spring weather, right? Wrong. This was Ram's ship!! 27 square miles wide! They shielded us from the effects of the polar shift! Somehow we had won the graces of the divine! Focus had worked! I actually felt quite empowered by this whole experience. *puke*

Not too long ago I was relating this story to a friend who was also caught up in a cult, hers was christian in nature but we were comparing similarities nonetheless. Anyway, it was the first time that I had spoken about 5/5 in depth I think since it happened, and I just started crying laughing at the ridiculousness of it. It was such a freeing laugh/cry, I hadn't felt that good in a long time!!

zyx-
the owner of the Survival Center in McKenna attends RSE. Him and his daughter, and grand daughter.

What I experienced during 5/5/ 2000 was that it was a "practice run" for the real thing (that never came).
which, since this last summer's RSE tour, everyone is to be prepared within about 10 months.

I do know there was a PLanet X book ( I forgot the author-8 by 10 bound thing with a nice scary glossy on the cover) around the same time as the 5/5/2000
predictions.
yeah, we went camping (several single mothers and few older ladies).
We had a blast, hiking, drinking wine,
having campfires.
Yes, we all got the 4 day weekend off from
work.
(What a joke).

And the Gabriel dude is channeled material as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gpgirbrpYU&mode=related&search=


the Gabriel DTC

Oldtimer, here’s one little correction to your statement: “…the dtc thing slowed down in the late 90's - until 9/11.” I offer the correction because ZYXWV asked about the Survival Center in McKenna. The owner of the Survival Center and much of his staff were RSE students in 1999-2000 (the owner was in Blue College); I can’t say whether they all still are students. Anyway, 1999 through the 5/5/2000 thing was a very busy time at the Survival Center because of Y2K. RSE students, like many other people around the world, were very active in preparing for Y2K.

(By the way, when nothing much happened back then, I’m sure a lot of people thought that Y2K had been much ado about nothing. But I KNOW that Y2K would have brought major disruptions had it not been for people like my brother, who was Y2K project manager for one of the largest companies that process credit card transactions. A lot of people around the world deserve credit for the very hard work that went into Y2K coming and going without many problems.)

Also, during the first DTC teachings, much of the emphasis was on preparing for natural disasters using “common-sense reasoning” and not out of fear. J/R used to say to prepare for possible earth changes like ants prepare for winter…I was in the teachings then (I got out around 1990) and used to hold the image of squirrels storing nuts and seeds. Back then J/R’s words made sense, in terms of being aware of where one was living—for example, on an earthquake fault. There was also talk about gray men and the possibility of the economy collapsing, but that also seemed like a prudent thing to keep in mind, because the Great Depression really happened, and it could happen again.

What I am saying is that in the late 1980s, as I recall, it was easy for me to agree with the DTC teachings because R/J wasn’t really predicting anything out of the ordinary realm of possibility. I believe to this day that it makes common sense to be prepared for natural disasters—tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. But just compare “common-sense reasoning” with what J/R is saying now…

Thanks for the input everyone, especially Tree.

I guess I didn't make my question 100% clear though. What I am wondering about is the specific connections between Ramtha and these prophesies.

I'm pretty familiar with what Ramtha says and what it's all about. I am reading Last Waltz of the Tyrants (for research purposes only- there's no way I'm being sold on RSE and DTC) and I have read parts of the White Book and listened to part of the DTC cd. My girlfriend has been into Ramtha for about 8 or 9 months and only been to her beginner retreat, but our friend that got her into it has been into it has been going her whole life, literally. (she's 19 and been going since she was a child). Having only been to one retreat, my girlfriend beleives pretty much in the whole thing.

We went to an all day event put on by the Survival Center- i was told it wasn't a Ramtha event, which I guess it wasn't specifically, but I felt like i was the only non RSE person there. It seemed like a big load of paranoia to me.

So what I am looking for are specific examples of Ramtha's prophesies NOT coming true. Such as:

-What did he say about 5/5/2000? Did he say anything explcitily would happen on or around that date that did not? Something concrete that I could say to my girlfriend "Ramtha said this would happen, and it did not. So Why would you beleive when he says this will happen?"

-I read somewhere that he predicted a tidal wave would wipe out Sydney, Australia. Does anyone have the info on what he said about that?

- I also read online that in the 80's he claimed Seattle might be invaded by Chinese communists from Mexico or something insane like that.

- Any other things that Ramtha explicitly said would happen that obviously did not happen?

Thanks so much

Hi Zyx....

I think it would be an interesting exercise to have your girl friend read a couple of the threads on this site. A real eye-opener for me was the stuff on David Hudson and Ramtha recommending people drink a certain kind of sea water and eat twinkees and take prozak. It's not just Ramtha's predictions which are sick - read the thread about the drunkeness and the wine ceremonies. The white book sounds good and the first retreat can be inspiring but when you start to look closer, the whole thing is sick. And all of the information on these threads is coming from RSE students themselves (actually former students) who got wise to the scam. Its not as if someone from the outside was criticizing - these people have been trhough it all.

Onehand, in response to your statements:

"Also, during the first DTC teachings, much of the emphasis was on preparing for natural disasters using “common-sense reasoning” and not out of fear. J/R used to say to prepare for possible earth changes like ants prepare for winter…I was in the teachings then (I got out around 1990) and used to hold the image of squirrels storing nuts and seeds. Back then J/R’s words made sense, in terms of being aware of where one was living—for example, on an earthquake fault. There was also talk about gray men and the possibility of the economy collapsing, but that also seemed like a prudent thing to keep in mind, because the Great Depression really happened, and it could happen again. "

This is still what JZ/R teaches -- when I have converations with my mother about the "days to come" she brings up "the ant and the grasshopper"... which, btw, is not original to JZ/R ... wasn't there a Disney cartoon based on this old story??... And she makes my remarks that end of the world prophecies are as old as the earth among cults seem insignificant by correcting me and saying "oh she doesn't claim it will be the end of the WORLD, just that there will be major changes that will change life as we know it now"... semantics, I guess... bottomline is still the same thing ...fear induced "I have the answer and you don't so you must continue to follow me and my teachings and pay me for the privilege of giving you this knowledge!"....

and also

"What I am saying is that in the late 1980s, as I recall, it was easy for me to agree with the DTC teachings because R/J wasn’t really predicting anything out of the ordinary realm of possibility."

We all face the possibilty of being killed in traffic accidents, being murdered while jogging, having our houses broken into, etc etc.. As a matter of fact, TIME magazine or some other news weekly did an article on how the media etc induces fear of natural disasters among society, but that the chance of you falling down the stairs and dying or somthing similer is much greater than any natural disaster you will face....Our perceptions about disaster and what we need to protect ourselves from is skewed....IMO, the difference between what JZ preaches/teaches and just being prepared and aware of disaster or calamity is the amount of time and how much of your life it consumes... I also think that when you were there, it was probably "easy" for one to agree with the teachings because one is still being brainwashed by JZ... My mother and sister today whole heartedly believe in what she is saying as do other people who are preparing to move to Yelm because it's the "only safe place"...

Look what I found on the site. Check it out.

http://www.baproducts.com/552000.htm


5/5/2000
ICE: The Ultimate Disaster
By Richard W Noone
On May 5 in the year 2000, the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn will be aligned with the Earth and her Moon. On that day the ice at the South Pole will upset the Earth's axis--sending trillions of tons of ice and water sweeping over the surface of our planet. Not since the days of Noah has Humankind been faced with this ultimate catastrophe.

Doesn´t is sound familiar?

that's the book i was referring to...i saw it at the Survival Center.

what is Ramtha's connection to that book? Did s/he advocate it? Did s/he say the same things as that book? If so, is there a place online or in a book that someone could point me to, proving that R's predictions are more or less full of ****?

zywxv - your 'evidence' approach to prove to your girlfriend and friends that R prophecies didn't happen is not going to produce the results you want. It's like ramster minds are immune to logic. Your research is commendable, as it shows YOUR capacity for critical thinking, analysis - a really good thing.

The issue here is the 'Leap of Faith' that your girlfriend is taking, with clear influence from the ramster friends encouraging her beliefs. Know that some people are just more sensitive to fear of survival, often related to abusive times growing up. (Lots of EMF posts talk about it.)

So, even if you came up with STELLAR EVIDENCE, your entrenched friends would reject it and she might side with majority... its not reasonable, but WTF?

What might work is the following argument:

1. Yelm countryside/S. Thurston county is now well stocked with food, generators, batteries, emergency supplies in 3000 homes. Perhaps 300 (10%) have underground concrete 'bomb shelters' too. This is WIDELY known in the community.

2. The other people dwelling in S. Thurston Co. are military people. They have guns & use them frequently - at Ft. Lewis in practice, hunting, etc.

3. So, if calamity ever happens, the people with the guns KNOW where the food is, and will clearly take control of anything they need to save their families.

Any Questions?

Oh yeah, and don't forget to mention that when you live in Yelm, you get to hear bombs, artillery going off EVERY DAY... Big bombers fly low overhead, helicopters buzz around like flies..

And then there are those returning Iraqi War veterans coming back some day soon (we hope). They will want to live in the country, as noises set them off a bit. Post-traumatic stress syndrome can also have nightmares, craziness, psychotic episodes. So, MORE guns, unstable military in 'affordable' Bald Hills...

Safe? yea, if you are a ranking military person with a loaded gun on your holster all the time.

I think your girlfriend could 'wake up' to this reality. This one is based on critical analysis of the situation. Pretty stark, too. Hey - go for a rustic vacation in a cabin somewhere for a weekend. Hang out in front of a warm fireplace with hot chocolate, after a dinner of canned beans or spagettiOs, lovingly ask the question: how DO we want to live 2 years from now? (p.s. - do not invite the friends!) win her back now - it will be harder or not possible later..

Love is all you need. Just raise the red flags & do 'what if' stories till you are both laughing hysterically!

zyw-
a place or person you might want to ask
is Mike (so) Wright at the Ranch.

I know what THEY try to document all of the prophecies that HAVE come true.
But I do not think anyone has done any intense study of
1) how many and what predictions did Ramtha actually make?
2) how many came true?
3) how many did NOT come true.

I know, in RSE newsletters in particular, RSE and the marketing dept like to "back up one of (a zillion) of Ramtha's predictions" with current um, media articles to support the "prediction".

And JZR's back up line, this is laughable, but true ( and they ALL believe it) is:
"The greatest predictions are the ones that did not come to pass."

Out here, NOW, that statement looks totally ridiculous.
While in, we thought it was awesome because either we (most likely not) or
"HE" (because he is a god realized !!) changed a time line.

What better back up for things not coming true from an "all knowing" source.
yeah, right.

Anyway, at one point ( very early on in one of my first jobs over ten years ago, I was hired on under 'contractor' status then) was to listen to every audio tape, and make general blurbs about each tape-what "lesson", what prediction, etc.
Master of Music started doing this solidly when CD's were being published.
But this was just as CD's were being released, and they wanted info of all the past master tape collection.
My position was terminated after 6 months
( as well as the rest of the permanent staff was laid off for 2 months, as is the case with RSE.).

So, to answer your question in totality, would be very difficult.
I do know older people who have the entire cassette tape collection of earlier dialogues, and those people are retired. I know they listen to tapes nearly every day, but I do not know of anyone cataloguing the entire collection.

also, one of the best "I told you so" stories came out just after 9 1 1.
The comrades were up at the house drinking with JZR, and the head of the then video dept asked to film it.
R gave the go ahead, but then after some time, GReg Simmons told the head of video
to stop filming.
So, the group comes down to the arena,
just tanked to the gills...we continue on with the evening.

Two weeks later, 9 1 1 occurs.
One of the comrades comes up with the idea: " I SWEAR I heard him talk about a
plane coming down in PA that night two week ago!! "
Of course, it was never filmed.And no one could remember because they were all
totally *&^& faced.

It tossed another red flag up for me then, as it seemed nothing could be proven, or dis-proved.
And then it could all be tossed aside with:
the greatest predictions are the ones that did
not come true.

See what a convoluded web?

yeah, i understand what you mean about the lack of critical thinking skills. Today she came home and asked me why I seemed upset, so I told her that I was reading Last Waltz and that none of it added up, and that I'm worried she's going to make serious life decisions based on a false prophet. I gave her examples of prophesies in that book that didn't come true, and she seemed interested, and she didn't just reject what i said or get defensive.

But her conclusion was "All the predictions aren't going to come true. If we do what's necessary, the predictions won't come true. And Ramtha never said he was perfect, that everything he said was right"

I responded with "But he does actually. He claims to have gotten full knowledge after achieving enlightenment."

And she said "Oh. Hm. I don't want to talk about this."

"I don't want to talk about this" is how i started the conversation, but she asked what was wrong, and that's where it took us. *shrug* Pretty typical Ramtha conversation


I am not only trying to gather proof of R's fallacies, but I do feel that it will help. I am also trying to get together our other friends who describe themselves as "spiritual" (I personally identify as kind of a relaxed Buddhist) but who also completely disagree with RSE. I'm contacting friends of hers/ours who would be also worried about this. My collection of "things that just don't add up" about R and his preictions is getting impressive, as well.

In response to the Yelm description- the friend of ours who got my girlfriend into RSE lives deep into Yelm in a really nice part, not really near all the military creeps. A good 20 minutes away from the Ramtha school. It's not like the gross hick parts of Yelm you're describing, so I don't think that would work unfortunately.

-I read somewhere that he predicted a tidal wave would wipe out Sydney, Australia. Does anyone have the info on what he said about that -

I read that about it in a new age type of magazine in Australia - I was visiting my family at that time and remember reading the article and thinking to myself "what kind of spiritual being is putting so much fear into people and that why would someone put that much fear into people" - it was a really big time fear based article - i remember that article very well - it was the time people were saying that Ramtha had already left because it was the time of the Arabian horse scam that Ramtha had dealed up and it seems people were saying that Ramtha had come and gone and that JZ was pretending to be Ramtha. I can't think of the name of the magazine but if I do I will let you know - might be out of print though....

zyxwv -- before you develop too much of a plan, you should check out some of the books and reading material written by some of the experts in the field.. While I know to you and me, a lot of what you say makes perfect sense, but actually it is specifically suggested that you do not say or do things that are confrontational or challenging or put the person in the position to defend their belief, like, “You’re in a cult, you're brainwashed.” [I did this, it didn't help]....or argue with the cult member about the cult’s beliefs or criticize the group or the leaders.. [I did this and it didn't help either]...it will only end as you've already found..."I don't want to talk about this"....

From what I'm gathering, RSE has a fairly good mechanism for training students to detach from and discard friends and relatives, loved ones, who interfere with their "enlightenment"... It is actually admired if one gives up something very meaningful in the name of the cause... The more you give up, the further along in your path you are... Many ex students on this board have done just that... You don't want to do anything that will further drive a wedge between you and your girlfriend...

Read read read, first.

Check out the recent post on this board about Peter Olsson's latest book, "Malignant Pied Piper"...

I understand your frustration... You think because the logic makes sense to YOU that SHE should and will understand and see the light... That's a hard pill to swallow... I'm still working on that one... Sometimes we have to ask ourselves who we are trying to save.... Our loved one or ourselves... Understand?

Hidey Ho, zwxyv,
Pleased to meet you and welcome to EMF, land of the disillusioned or something like that.
I was a very current student for too long and I never heard Judy-pretending-to-be-Ramtha talk about 5/5/2000. There was a book for sale in the "Annex" by David Icke which referred to it. I do have a lot of tapes from 1999 (the truth teachings, Judy-pretending-to-be-Ramtha was preoccupied with demoralizing "students" and "staff")and if you would like to listen to them I woud be happy to send them to you.

OneHand – Thank you for the correction – I’d forgotten the y2k thing – probably because it was a worldwide fear craze via every media and probably a great number of cult leaders, church speakers, prophets etc. Ramtha clearly didn’t have the market cornered on y2k paranoia. (and as grateful as I am to the techies who “fixed” the problem, I can only wonder how these techie geniuses of our world were taken by surprise that the number 2000 followed the number 1999 – I believe I learned that in first grade and I ain’t no techie genius.)
I have a much different perspective of the mid-late 80’s predictions – You seem to be unique from the people I know/knew and my own reactions – far more than squirreling away nuts. Consider an apartment city dweller – how do you suppose they could handle chickens and goats and cows and organic gardens and solar power and a well with a hand pump? The message was very clear to obtain these things. People changed their entire lives – sold their homes and businesses, bought land, and studied “Real Goods” catalogues. … Ask a real estate agent who was here in the late ‘80s about the ‘boom’ in the Bald Hills. .. Even worse, we were told we had 4 years – and to give up our goals and dreams and future plans. I remember when a friend went to law school and thinking what a waste of time. There was a great great great deal of fear. So – xyw – It’s been 20 years give or take – and our society goes on – my lawyer friend’s education was not a waste – to the point of pleading before a State Supreme Court to protect the innocent.
xyw, listen to some audio tapes from the late ‘80s and see for yourself if any of the predictions came true – as I must reconcile what could I have accomplished in this world, what gifts could I have discovered, how many people could I have helped had I not given up dreaming and goals and education because Ramtha said to.

It's hard for me to obtain books about cults or cult psycology or to listen to old ramtha tapes, etc, b/c I live with my girlfriend. I go on this board only on my computer when she is not home; she has no idea I am on this board or that it even exists (though she does know I read R's books just to disprove them and that I've been reading anti-RSE materials online)

I am not yet willing to let her know that I am researching all of this from a cult psychology viewpoint, so I can't realy have a book like that around the house.

Our lease is up in 10 months, and after that I feel that whereever she lives she will consider a "temporary" house because she expects that anytime between 1 and 3 years from now that she will abruptly pack up and move to Yelm at the first sign of a major catastrophe. In my mind, that means we have 10 months to kind of "resolve" this, because I am sure as hell not moving to Yelm with her.

I understand why most people think I should not drop the "cult" bomb on her or bombard her with all of RSE's fallacies. Is getting a cult psycology book the best way to go? I am starting to get a guilty conscience about how much sneaking behind her back I am doing in regards to looking up RSE, cults, etc. that's why I kind of just want to tell her how I feel, and why I feel that way, because her randomly finding me reading a cult psychology book could REALLY make things weird between us. At least if I tell her how I feel first, then my reading books like that might not be quite as offensive, though I understand that even telling her how I feel could potentially make her feel ostracized and therefore further her involvement in RSE.

this is quite a catch 22 I'm in. It's starting to kind of consume me- I resaerch cults and Ramtha instead of doing my homework. I feel that my life will continue to be distracted and out of sorts until I get something resolved about this whole RSE thing.

zyw-
I really feel for you.
What a spot to be in.
I think that Dr Olsson book that was printed in 2005 would be a good start.
It really points out alot of extremists, and the title might not alarm her.
He has a program coming out on the history channel on oct 10 check out the listings in your area.
This guy is HIGHLY HIGHLY regarded in his arena of expertise, and Dartmouth is so slouch of a college.
I think his new one about Osama bin Laden will even be more revealing.
To imagine all these "leaders" have two common threads.
yeah-
I don't know how you can be right now with your girlfriend other than to agree to disagree on the subject.
That is pretty clear.

as far as living arrangements ten months down the road, pray there is a pot hole
somewhere between here and then that she
can see some light.
We are here for you.....
Keep reading and thinking critically.
You are the the anchor she has to the
REAL world.

and zyx-
am I assuming your girlfriends parents are still in RSE?

It has been my experience, that amongst my son's friends ( the young 20 year olds), most of them diss Ramtha, but amongst their group, 2 still attend, but the people in the group give a wide berth of allowance for allowing people to live
and freely think.
But most of the 18-24 year olds have
wised up, all on their own.
Not due to their parents.

Hi Zyx,
"


"I understand why most people think I should not drop the "cult" bomb on her or bombard her with all of RSE's fallacies. Is getting a cult psychology book the best way to go? I am starting to get a guilty conscience about how much sneaking behind her back I am doing in regards to looking up RSE, cults, etc. that's why I kind of just want to tell her how I feel, and why I feel that way, because her randomly finding me reading a cult psychology book could REALLY make things weird between us. At least if I tell her how I feel first, then my reading books like that might not be quite as offensive, though I understand that even telling her how I feel could potentially make her feel ostracized and therefore further her involvement in RSE".

I know the feeling, however you might want to consider trying something like this.

She is your girlfriend; forget about trying to educate her right now, how about simply asking for more time with her to do the things you enjoy together. Many of the things that RSE is offering are full of fear even though she may not have gotten there yet. Compete for her time spent on RSE, keep track of how much time it takes away from your relationship. With you not mentioning it.

The point being to spend more time offering a alternative, things you know she likes and enjoys, if she feels the need to change those things like they’re too superficial for her or something, then you can point out to her that her interests have suddenly changed. Leave out that you feel that they are part of the groups influence. Just keep telling her when things like that occur that are new and troubling. Include the things that you honestly feel are changing for the better also.


Somewhere along the line this will give you a background to build on to show her how she changed, how quickly and if she had really wished to do that in the first place.

She is enchanted right now, that is tough to compete with unless you throw in some enchantment of your own.

Best of luck to you.

zywxv -- "it is starting to comsume me"...

I completely hear you -- I'm doing the same thing at work... I am at my computer all day so I find myself constantly looking at this board for new posts, checking my email, etc... I think "This can't be good, this is consuming ME as much as it's consuming THEM [my mother and sister]"... and then I think "I won't give Judith Knight satisfaction of letting this take over MY life, even if I am coming at it from a different angle"...So I just have to make myself get my head in a different place... Do stuff that keeps me connected to "normal life"... This is a bit depressing, so I make sure that I do things I enjoy... when it all becomes too heavy, I make myself take a break from it for a day...it IS frightening to discover your loved ones are under the influence of a destructive personality....There are feelings of hopelessness and helplessness to deal with....I wanted to rush out tonight and buy that Peter Olsson book and called three bookstores in my area to see if they had it and none of them did and I was ticked!! I was fantasizing about being able to hole up this three day weekend and TOTALLY consume myself in reading about "this"... ... I had to tell mysef to get a grip and BREATHE.... ...

Someone else told me that the normal human reaction is to want to DO something as it makes it seem less overwhelming.. and I believe this is true....

Funny though, in an interesting way, how the "malignancy" spills over to family and friends who are not RSE students...

Take a break now and then, breathe, and know that life happens and you'll be ok whatever happens.

"I think "This can't be good, this is consuming ME as much as it's consuming THEM [my mother and sister]"... and then I think "I won't give Judith Knight satisfaction of letting this take over MY life, even if I am coming at it from a different angle"

very good point Marie.
I can understand that as well.
From a recovering person's point of view, reading, posting, etc has been very healing.
I think many former students find solace in these small discoveries. At least I do.
RSE took up 20 years of my life, now I am compelled to educate and warn others so their minds will not
get twisted and then have to recover.

And yes, I agree to get out and enjoy things that I really love to do. This has been very helpful in seeing how brainwashed I was, so much as to not go out to "the city" for fear some military was going to
gobble us all up.
Like journey said, to keep doing things that most people enjoy...this keeps one sane,balanced and healthy.

zyxwv,

The 5/5/2000 from Ramtha was to seek higher grounds and take everything that you have and brings tools to build a home and seeds to grow a garden because the the earth would be destroyed and you would have to live in the mountain or underground for two years and after that you could come out.

If you lived in Yelm, you would be safe. he said that you would have to live this way for two years and then in 2011 the world would be completed destroyed and there would never again be this planet.

Well nothing happen and of course the book called 5/5/2000 was a hit and Ramtha used that book as proof of what he was staying was truthful.

sorry..this is a long post...many responses in one...

naturegirl...what you said is also what i remember. we were told to have an underground "house" to hide in, and be able to filter the dirty air, have food/water for two years for every person in your family, stored away. then, at one event, ramther said store TEN years of food for every person in your family.

i thought to myself, "this is just nuts. i have a big family, so we're going to starve? not." i did store some things for y2k, despite my extended family (consisting of some computer programmers who worked DIRECTLY, nationally, on y2k programming changes), who told me that they had advance notice of the issue and had fixed almost all of it...there would be no global catastrophe w computers. but i worried for my kids and i "had to" protect them with dried beans and rice (blech...how long ya wanna eat that?).

anyway, live and learn.

xyz...reading the last waltz of the tyrants book is as close as you'll get to ramther's predictions. in particular the ones addressing the doom and gloom version of days to come, that never arrive. at various events, it would be fairly common for ramther to dole out new 'info' (predictions), many of which never happened. some were just lies imo - such as telling (threatening, actually) students that the city of yelm was going to take jz's property (the school!!!) by eminent domain to put a road through her back yard, if nascar was allowed in. we were told (i was there) if we did not write letters to the committee for nascar, ramther "would bring you down".

i found that offensive.

i also found out that there was never a plan filed with the planning and zoning commission in yelm, that would include putting a road through her backyard. now, that is an example of losing one's critical thinking skills. ramther said it, therefore it must be so - don't check it out to see if it's bologna.

another issue:
balance.
i don't think it's a "bad" thing that one goes through a PHASE in their lives when they are consumed with reading this forum, or cult-related books, etc.
why is this my opinion?
because it's a startling, HUGE shift in a person's life - whether they're waking up to the fact they are/were in a cult, or have a loved one in there.
we go through a phase where we just consume educational material. if we're lucky, we also find support so we aren't going through this phase alone, because IT IS VERY INTENSE.

it took me two YEARS to leave rse, after i knew it was Over. i kept going to events, as i Secretly was reading FACTNet (woohoo!!), and learning more rotten things about rse's workings than i had witnessed on my own. i also read about experiences similar to my own, and people's reactions, which were similar to my own when we started to say WTF????? then, one fine evening, as i sat in the second to the front row, i stared intently at ramther all evening. i felt a strange mixture of emotions. ramther even talked to me that night - looked me in the eye and made a number of comments. i just thought to myself...this is sooooo over. i won't be coming back here again. ever. i cried all the way home on the plane. i avoided eye contact with everyone because i'm sure my eyes were red/swollen and i looked weird that way.

i cried on/off for 4 months. then, it started to lessen. i had a range of emotions. i wanted to DO something. something proactive. it bothered me very much that CHILDREN are in those audiences. to this day i feel confident that the STATE OF WASHINGTON'S CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES needs to be in there because there IS child abuse going on in there, with the children being REPEATEDLY EXPOSED TO PROFANITY AND SEXUALLY EXPLICIT TALK, AND DRUNKENESS, etc.

balance.

my innards calmed down. i cried myself out. i looked around me, in my life. for the first time in a long time, i REALLY saw the beauty in my yard, reveled in the details of what the kids were doing, without part of my mind drifting off to something ramther said...wanted to be with my friends and do "mundane" things...because i realized THIS IS LIFE. it is the beauty of life.

xyz...when i think of you, i hear the stewardess on the airplane saying to put the oxygen mask ON YOURSELF FIRST, and then someone else. maybe it would be good for you, to enjoy the best side of your relationship with Girlfriend for now...and just quietly find your balance point with all of this rse stuff. AFTER you've found YOUR balance point, you'll have more clarity about how to proceed in your life.

then, when you're on strong footing, that confidence and self esteem, and presence of mind, will come through to Girlfriend, no matter what the future holds for the two of you - together - or not. hopefully, together. sounds like she's a lucky lady.

GO DO YOUR HOMEWORK !

a few hours of homework, then you can read on here for a few hours ? balance. really try to give yourself that. it will get easier.

for anyone who read through this entire post, THANKS.

You made a lot of good sense, Whatcha -- thanks for taking the time to post!.. and you're right about wanting to KNOW everything once you find out you or your loved one is in a cult... I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's exactly what it is... it IS intense.

wow, thanks a lot. I have been better the past few days (enjoying myself more, doing my homework, etc)

I guess part of the problem is that my girlfriend and I are on VERY backwards schedules (she works 8-5 weekdays, i work/go to school nights and weekends) so we only se eachother for a few hours a day. the things we like to do together are cook, watch movies, read, and talk about "deep" stuff. Well, her reading has been consumed by RSE and related things (along with her car Cd player, etc), as has much "deep conversation", so it's hard to seperate RSE from our relatoinship even for a day or two, because the books lay open all over the house and the CD is on in her car (she turns it off when i get it, but still).

but yeah, i'm figuring it out. this board is helping a lot. thanks a bunch.

And Tree- no, her parents aren't in RSE. she only got into from out friend less than a year ago.

awesome post whatcha!!
EXACTLY what I went through.
And I have to keep telling myself daily
to put the oxygen mask on myself first.

I want to make a side note here, if I may, to re-support the "put the oxygen mask on yourself first."

I have had the not-so-grand opportunity of renting to Ramsters for the last year.
After the fourth call to the sheriff's office this week concerning the last family (the mother, grandmother and teenage some are all bi-polar), they finally left
yesterday yelling obscenities the whole way out.
I have done nothing but go out my way for all these renters...give them wood I had, when they had none, show them how to clean a chimney out, hang out with the 14 year old boy who had episodes, like I do/did ( at first, I was the best thing since sliced bread), gave them furniture,
gave them blankets, etc etc

I had to finally cut off the water and electrical supply to get them the heck out of there (they over stayed their aggreement with me by nearly two weeks).
And as they left yesterday, screaming like wild banshies, I found myself
1) very relieved they were gone but 2) I found myself in tears, because there is no
way to communicate with people who go
to that school.
Their minds are totally twisted.
And then they take no responsibility for
their own lack of whatever, then they put it onto the non-school students.
I cried tears of relief, but also tears of
loathing because JZ has done this to these
people, and there is NO possible way to
have any sort of clear communication with these people because their heads are
totally scrambled.
It was just an amazing experience.

(And know that I have a plan in action for getting the heck outta dodge!!)
Thanks for reading.

Tree - you have done so much for these people. The fact they're RSE students, did they forget 'the teaching - they created their reality!'

You did all you could, and it is so admirable. What would have someone else done in another place, say, New Jersey, New York, etcetera. YOU went above and beyond. In a manner of speaking, 'you are levitating' far and above any RSE 'creating' reality.

The best to you for standing up tall, and offering all of your help to the rest of us.

Obscenities? Early teachings were 'no obscenities.' I don't know what the early days were like, but when I was there, I got the shock of my life to hear JR using profanities and talking about sex - with CHILDREN IN THE AUDIENCE. Then I saw a part of "Where Angels Fear to Tread' - an edited version. My head was spinning.Another inconsistency in teachings. Then the "take care of your bay-baaaays" to the parents. To do so, they have to get the kids out of that place!

Tree, I for one cannot thank you enough for your courage and for your reaching out to the rest of us.
A huge thanks to those who started this forum.

Ditto -- lots of courage on this board... My heart and thanks goes out to all.

'I wanted to rush out tonight and buy that Peter Olsson book and called three bookstores in my area to see if they had it and none of them did and I was ticked!! I was fantasizing about being able to hole up this three day weekend and TOTALLY consume myself in reading about "this"... ... I had to tell mysef to get a grip and BREATHE.... ...'

the same thing happened to me as well!!!

Tree and anyone else dashing to book stores for the Olsson book -- the guy at B&N told me that it was listed as a "print on demand" book... meaning they don't normally keep it stocked and it's printed as demand comes in... so it has to be ordered... Bah.

I just checked with Amazon....good to go