I saw a reference to sea-11 water on the boards -- and jokes about being a water salesman....what is that about?

Thanks!

PS -- and oh, just FYI -- it seems my mother and sister have officially "aligned"...and I am now the evil one... "full of hatred and salicious gossip"... Not that I expected anything different but it is still shocking to see yourself referred to in that context... especially when they are being super sweet to your face, well, my mother is anyway, my sister could care less... I have to say I never would have dreamed my family was capable of this.... I know you'll tell me they don't really know what they're doing -- that it is the RSE influence.. and to some degree I believe that... But on another level, I dunno... just seems like irrepairable damage done to our relationships.

Tree, Journey, all -- who have expressed sympathies about my family -- thank you... I feel like I've lost 3/4 of it in one fell swoop...Sometimes I just have to take a break from this discussion and focus on things I know I can handle and take care of -- like job, dog, groceries, etc...

Marie,

There was an event at which RSE students had an "alchemist" come to speak to the audience. He talked about a "recipe" (Sea-11) water, that he developed, which, when ingested, would lead a person to having more and more progressive experience with their enlightenment unfolding.

The recipe, basically, consisted of using ocean water (hence the "Sea"), and mixing it with certain proportions of sodium hydroxide (LYE), which would be rinsed in water, three times, supposedly to remove the LYE from it. In case one doesn't realize it, sodium hydroxide is a very strong base, and is 14 on the pH scale, which tops out at 14. It's corrosive.

Bottom line, "Ramtha" told the audience (I was there) that it was the elixir of life. Students made it, ingested it, and some became ill from it, as has been discussed on this forum.

So, that newest "get enlightened quick" scheme passed through the student body for a while, and then fizzled away. It failed. Nobody got enlightened that I've ever heard of.

That's the quick version of what my experience was, regarding the Sea-11 water.

That was approximately 1997 as I recall.

Another point is that, the Sea-11 water is an example (in my opinion) of how critical thinking skills are compromised when under cult influence. Just Because
"Ramtha" said that the Sea-11 water was the elixir of life, and "he" validated everything that the self-proclaimed alchemist stated about it, many students, at least, ingested that gross tasting liquid in whatever quantities, for whatever amount of time, without asking for PROOF that it was safe and actually had the efficacy that it was claimed to have had.

If your physician told you s/he was going to give you a prescription drug with who knows what inside of it, that would react who knows which way inside your body, but...that the president of a pharmaceutical company said it's good fer ya...would you take it? Most of us probably would not !

So, why would we BLINDLY ACCEPT THE WORD OF A HIEROPHANT WHO IS A SELF-ADMITTED LIAR ??? and put some unknown substance into our bodies ???

But, we loooooove the teacher and know s/he knows what's best for us !!! So, we do what we are TOLD to do.

Hello ? Where is YOUR power base ?? Interally with YOUR God, or externally, from Ramtha-let-me-dictate-your-life-for-you-and-just-shut-up-and-do-it.

I do not say this sarcastically. I'm quite serious. The good part about having current students reading this forum (and they do), is that maybe it will help them to wake up and smell the deception that they are ruled/fooled by at RSE. That's my opinion. My hope for them, is that they get out and regain their lives as independent, open-minded, free thinking beings.

EMF cult ? Hardly. Talk about PROJECTION !? Go look that term up in a psyche book. Then, look in the mirror.

Marie,

i know it is awful to find out all this stuff and it just seems so logigical that by informing those we love that they would at least have some second thoughts but quite often, because of the denigration (especially in a group like RSE) of rational, logical thought, they tend to stay away from it as though it is a disease, and you are the carrier of it. Your mom if I am correct is 73??? Hopefully she will not destroy her ability to retire. If she has any ailments that she is thinking rse can "cure" that is a powerful draw. And yes, it can seem to become all consuming, sometimes one has to take care of them selves first and give themselves a chance to try and view the situation from a differing perspective. Please feel free to contact me should you wish to discuss anything I have mentioned or otherwise.

JTR

I read this post with interest. As most of you know my partner has been a Ramtha follower for 20 years and if I question some of these things (like the Seawater) his answer is that Ramtha is testing people, that he openly has claimed he lies. If that is the case and the members of the school know that, why do they follow everything without question, when Ramtha has told them he will not always be truthful. Couldn't this be the case with the seawater he/she wanted to demonstrate how gullible people were especially after he has told them not to worship him? Just as an aside I think RSE is a load of s?*t, I'm not justifying the actions, just commenting.

aussiegirl - your reasoning is exactly the kind of thinking a student would probably use to justify r's lies. In the student's case it is a matter of the teacher 'testing' them, challenging them to 'be their own god'. Which, although it shows a certain level of 'reasoning', is still one step shy of: could it be jz/r is plain lying because
a) it's fun to see how much control you have over people
b) he/she genuinely believes this crap and secretly hopes his/her statement will by some miracle come to fruition
c) he/she is delusional and out of touch with reality or
d) all of the above.

Like in my case, such 'reasoning' could also be the driving force out because if one does take the teachings quite literally, it may lead you to truly listen to your 'god' and if that 'god' is a nagging feeling of 'something isn't right here' then it's quite possible to use the teachings to justify NOT listening to the big guy (all the while feeling very self-righteous about being the only master who has truly gotten the point...). You get my drift, so in other words aussiegirl, it's worth pursuing that line of reasoning, you chip and chip away at the shell and maybe one day it will crack ;-).

littlewiseone - I like that! we have come to the point where I pretty much don't say anything about RSE because it leads to the most enormous arguments imaginable. But there are still moments when we are really in harmony and opportunties arise for discussion without it ending in tears.

Part of the reason my partner was attracted to me is apparently I say a lot of things he has learned from Ramtha, but thats just me, I have always been my own God, and am completely confident in my ability to do anything I set my mind to. I didn't know there was someone out there claiming that was some sort of a new exciting concept! There are of course many many things where I am very different to Ramtha and the teachings.

You are correct in what you say, the times I have said something similar to what you suggest to my partner are probably the times he has listened the most without reacting. When he has told me about sitting on the floor etc. and I say "If you are gods why are you sitting on the floor? why not be comfortable?" he actually takes a bit of notice.

It really is hard to say what will 'work' at any given time with any given person. The thing that drives one person further into a cult one day could be the same thing that helps another wake up, or, given a different time or circumstance, the same person who was running from you at first might become more receptive to information.

Aussiegirl and Marie, I don't envy your, or my family's previous, hard task of trying to find common ground with your loved ones, but hang in there, you never know what may be hitting home even if they don't let on. The best thing you can do is to be yourself and remain available and keep asking those critical questions, because even though your family members/loved ones will be ready with the pat answer that comes from years of holding one's own mind hostage, you may spark a fire that they will have to investigate and when they do, they'll know that you're there for them. Keep bringing it back to common sense.

Marie,

I hope you realized in reading my previous post that the beginning of it was intended for you, and the latter part of it was not. I think it's obvious, but I'm just making SURE.

I think most/all of the folks on this forum have experienced, or been the cause of, the sort of pain that you're experiencing with your mom/sisters. It's awful. You know that. It's like they are just not themselves - and - in a way, they're not. They/we just do not think clearly when we're under that dark influence.

I say "dark" as in evil/bad, and not just my opinion of it all. On numerous occasions, "Ramtha/her" has called "himself" a Dark Lord - with pride in "his" voice.

I heard "him" say, "I cause problems on other planets, and you're lucky I LIKE this one."

How's that for mind control/threatening, "Do what I say...or else." ?

Ramtha: You're a bully. Grow up.

LWO stated, "hang in there, you never know what may be hitting home even if they don't let on. "

Yes, this is true and I'm guilty of it ! I was considered a very sincere student while in RSE, and I had my family gently needling me (friends, too), for years. It got more intense in the last few years as the teachings/abuse cycle became most intense.

I WAS listening to family/friends, but hell was going to freeze over before I admitted it. I also can tell you that right before they crack and wake up to getting their freedom of mind back, it's not uncommon for them to get WORSE first. Why ? Think about it. If you are privately facing that you were betrayed/lied to/DEFRAUDED, sometimes for years, you wouldn't be in a good mood. It comes apart in pieces, and for most folks I've talked, to, it happens privately, coping with it, INSIDE, before you can come out of the closet so to speak, that you're LEAVING A CULT THAT DEFRAUDED YOU and SPIRITUALLY RAPED YOU, as a sincere student expecting the CLAIMS MADE, to be delivered upon.

JZ's attorney told the WA state Atty General, in response to a filed complaint against RSE less than one year ago, that the school intended to make people feel better about themselves. "Enlightenment" was not part of the conversation. But, as any student knows, and as the website alludes to, enlightenment to the state of GODHOOD in the flesh of THIS lifetime, is what is claimed if you simply do your disciplines.

It's a lie. That's my experience and opinion.

I was as "psychic" before RSE as I am now, and I have yet to pull bread out of the ethers, or heal the world. If I could, I would. If "Ramtha" can, "he" should have manifested it by now, eh ? Between "him" and all of "his" etherial buddies, surely they're powerful enough to spread Grace upon this planet and make it Heaven on Earth, forgiving all trespasses of the past, eh ???

Don't give me that "you created this mess (war, etc)" so deal with it so you learn, crap. That's what GRACE is all about - forgiving that and moving on. I happen to believe that we do NOT have to taste a sour pickle to know that ice cream is sweet. More pain does not equate more gain. Gee, if one believes that, WHAT ARE THEY THINKING (CREATING?)...as the teachings go ? Hmm.

My two or three cents,
Whatcha

"I also can tell you that right before they crack and wake up to getting their freedom of mind back, it's not uncommon for them to get WORSE "

I can speak from personal experience on this one. AND...in the last two weeks, I have personally received numerous phone calls from people IN THE SCHOOL asking me if I have really gone off the deep end.
I believe, we are making a huge impact,
and these people are attacking ME because
it is themselves they are really attacking
and concerned about.
Thank God for this forum of information
and personal experience.
There is a place to turn for people who
have been hood winked.
I am going to post a few links to
some former cult members (non RSE), but
it will be plain to see, the path.

http://culticstudiesreview.org/csr_articles/toren_erica.htm

http://culticstudiesreview.org/csr_articles/miquelon_nancy1.htm

This was an awesome article!.... Thanks so much for the link ... Yesterday and today I was angry and hurt and incredulous toward my mother for some things she had said about me to my sister... And I was ready to just write them off completely... But now, I dunno, makes me think maybe I should keep trying -- I just sent the article to my aunt and uncle -- the ones who are also not talking to me and think I should just "leave her alone and let do what she wants"... I really am the only one who sees something wrong with this, her and my sister's participation in RSE... So I am fighting against not just one person, but a freaking group of people... who don't want to see.

Marie,

Glad to hear you did not let the triangulation get to you. Since their is alot of disconnection between family members in a group such as RSE. There is also much rationalizing why family members act the way they do between the RSE members. ie "they are stuck in their emotions", "they are only trying to keep their control over you", "Why do you expect them to understand since they have not had the experience of the "teachings?"" etc......

All of this is quite unhealthy as is most forms of triangulated relationships. Best thing you can do is attempt to keep yourself out of participating in the triangle!

best of luck

Watcha – GREAT analogy regarding ‘outing’ and leaving the school. We don't just open the clost door and say: I GOT IT – it’s a HOAX! A college professor once handed out an assignment that was nonsense to teach the class critical thinking, saying what is true. Most of the class spent hours trying to do the assignment, making elaborate constructions out of nothing. ditto here.

Tree: probably the people contacting you are nearing the burst of their bubble too. Terra needs to be firma. Current fear mongering only makes people more uncomfortable, as the hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, terrorist continue. Hey! it's our world. Coincides with teachings – so what? Alter ego R gets material from TV/radio. Supposedly in the past, teachings sounded suspiciously like Sally Jesse Raphael.. how hilarious is that!

Marie: just keep shaking that family tree – compassion is powerful. So like wind chimes it’s really ringing, huh? ( ha, ha) John Bradshaw talks about how the youngest in the family can really whip it up. Anyway, it’s pretty clear you are having an effect. So, be the boat on rough sea – hold the course. Your convictions and voice are being heard. That is all you can do. The chronicles on this web site are real: people, places, times and events. Some stuff the others would rather not be brought to light. Kind of like JZ’s really big pile of dirty laundry which is never addressed and is beginning to stink up the house. Your mom is probably listening to ALL of us, going direct, esp. if she is miming stuff back to your sis..

In ‘coming out’ - Whatcha says is true – first private doubt, anger and confusion due to all the irrational inconsistencies. Next, those unequivocal bold-faced lies. Then, more and more, you see how people are not true to themselves. Sure, coming out and declaring the non-reality of Judy’s fame & money-mak'n machine draws the ire. That is a big clue in itself.

While other religious devotee groupies may think less of you when you leave the fold, it is my experience that you are not decreed defective for life with a make-over as an evil twin as with ramsters. Calling a guru a fake, others just let you move on. This seems to be an ‘acid test’ of cultism - harassment, invalidation, etc. RSE has all the Big Denial characteristics and hubris that goes with a cult.

Nice thread – although we aren’t talking about drinking salt-water-and-lye elixirs anymore, we are going out to sea, into the rough waters of Being.. Glad for all you coast guarders and this Safe Harbor...

Aye Aye! Captain!!

(nice post Agape )

I LOVE this board..... You all ROCK.

[and I AM the youngest, and I DO whip it up!!.. I also have read Bradshaw and love the reference]