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It is always difficult to leave a "cult"! You know?
You experienced this? How many times? You get emotions?
It is difficult to leave friends behind ..to leave enemies behind?
What is the difference---you are attached?!
Don't Cry For Me
are you a current RSE "student"?
No retreat/event attended during this year; current-status runs out this year.
how do you feel about that?
and are you experiencing anything
significant in regards to leaving?
Crossing that bridge from "current to none current" was a massive step for me; I was haunted by a delusional fear of
a fall from divine grace, after all.. I was one of the “Radical few’ not a quitter..
Then one fine morn.. I became one of them!!! “Dead wood”,
“a term used by JZR..”
How can this be.. Having moved to Yelm from a foreign country, and dedicated seven years of my life.. Now I was an outcast..
All because I didn’t “manifest” the $1200.00 cash to hand over to JZR to receive the latest teachings and disciplines. Even the piddly RSE evening events were off limits to me..until I paid up my $$$$ and “Return to Start” ..
This gave me the distance I needed to realize that I could survive outside of the RSE hive.. and still connect with the sacred,
And most omniportantly… without the intermediary of a cult dictatorship..
It took a few more years to clean out the “Ramtha” voices and the feelings of failure to my spiritual path..
What an illusion..
If you cross that bridge..Or it crosses you!
It is a day to celebrate..
:::silently crossing myself::...
If you cross that bridge..
It is as I say..a day to celebrate..
But.. in finally realizing that Judiths clever insanity had you fooled totally, and at what cost?
There may indeed be tears and a search for comfort and meaning.
We at EMF will be here for you.
making a cross post here for ex
from a portion of Agape's post:
"In ‘coming out’ - Whatcha says is true – first private doubt, anger and confusion due to all the irrational inconsistencies. Next, those unequivocal bold-faced lies. Then, more and more, you see how people are not true to themselves. Sure, coming out and declaring the non-reality of Judy’s fame & money-mak'n machine draws the ire. That is a big clue in itself. "
I cannot say I have EVER walked a path
like this one in my entire life.
Pray that you have a support system
and some family members who have not
given up one you.
And we are here
The most cruel and most unconscionable aspect I had to face and get over after RSE was the fact that, after all I had done in the school, all the test I had passed, all my impeccable behavior in and toward the school, all my astute understanding in the areas of the unmentionable for over a decade in time, all the sacrifice, all the money given, I was not even allowed to pay and attend an evening event with Ramtha.
I mention this now because I know that there are those who are reading this that feel the same way.
Let me just say this.
At mid point of my RSE tenure I had an opportunity to meet the Channel. I was at an evening lecture that JZ attended. She sat across the isle in back of me. She will remember me to this day because I used to sit on a little wooden bench with my legs folded underneath me .
After the speaker spoke I stood up and turned around to see JZ walking toward me and looking me straight in the eye. I became frightened. I said to myself. "Theres JZ. Don't see her as the most beautiful woman that she is. She her as the individual god that she is."
As Judi passed by me, looking me straight in the eye, I just softly looked back at her but made no attempt to "cow tau" to her. I blessed her from the lord God of my being to the lord God of her being. As she passed by she raised an eye brow to me as to say "you missed your chance".
NOW. In my day I had a thing for beautiful blonds. In fact I used to speak "fluently blond", and as JZ passed on by I said to myself, "The channel just "hit" on me.
Whether this whole story is a figment of my imagination or not, the fact of the matter is within 6 months Judy kicked J.O. (old boyfriend) out of the house and had another man move in with her.
Now I'm not saying that JZ hit on me. But she did see something in me that sparked her attention.
This does not surprise me because I have had this experience with other "so called" important people in my life and I have ignored them all.
What I say to you that are reading this is this.
You ARE MAGNIFICENT!
Don't look for an outside source to confirm it!
You all came to RSE for conformation of this!
See it as that was accomplished.
Because Judi will never see you as accomplished because that will make her wonder about the REAL TRUTH.
given her history,
this is not surprising.
I am too happy, cowboy,
you are not the current "boy-toy"
Could you expand on this, we in Europa are a little behind in this... the information we have is that James Flick is her boyfriend of many years, before that she was married to her horse trainer?
By the way, my friend who saw JZ and James at an event: I told her, that people in this forum called him "a kept man" and she said that was the same expression she had when she saw them.
keep in mind that he's almost 11 years younger than her.
"Because Judi will never see you as accomplished because that will make her wonder about the REAL TRUTH."
My thoughts on that are, that the REAL TRUTH in that context is that she would see you as threatening, if she had to acknowledge your accomplishments and value as real human beings, because any accomplishment of yours, would diminish her own, in her mind.
after leaving Jeff, she picked out J.O.
(then 18 at the time) out of an audience.
5 years later, same thing with James.
They are close to year 8 or 9.
She did exactly that with James.
James went to an event with his then fiance. A red guard whispered something
to James, he got up went to the house,
a short while later, the red guard came
and picked up his notebook and
pack, his fiance asked, where is my
" He won't be coming back."
This was at the start of an assay.
James' fiance later asked "r", why this
occured. The reply,
"because you needed a lesson of betrayal."
The fiance was devestated.
David, you are so kind, could not restrain to post again.
I am stirred and overwhelmed.
If I get tears because of this.. I will take your offer gratefully.
Thank you, David.
A good cult makes you stronger not weaker!
Life should not be a funeral!
Wolfman is MAGNIFICENT!!!
Let us CELEBRATE!!!
"A good cult makes you stronger not weaker!
Would you like to explain that statement to the surviving families of Jonestown?
Jonestown was the communal settlement made in northwestern Guyana by the Peoples Temple, a cult from California. Jonestown was founded in the mid-1970s by the cult leader, Jim Jones, for whom it was named. It stood amidst jungle, about seven miles (11 km) southwesterly from Port Kaituma. It had a population of about one thousand once it was fully established and the bulk of Jones' followers had moved there, but they occupied it only for a few years.
Jonestown gained lasting international notoriety in 1978, when nearly its whole population died in a mass murder-and-suicide ordered by Jones. Somewhat over nine hundred men, women and children were slain, Jones among them.
The place was abandoned promptly thereafter by the collapsing remnant of the Peoples Temple. Afterward, it was at first tended by the Guyanese government, which allowed its re-occupation by Hmong refugees from Laos, for a few years in the early 1980s, but it has since been altogether deserted. It is now a scanty ruin, mostly destroyed by a fire in the mid-1980s and then left to decay and be swallowed up again by the jungle.
where are you coming from ex?
this is a bit beyond...
For the record..
Would you like to explain..
More than 7,500,000 starvation deaths this year. You know how many children? Take a deeper look:
More than 148,500 species extinction this year.
Let’s not talk about acres of rainforest, amounts of polluted water, crazy wars etc.
Please tell me THE NAME OF THE CULT responsible for this. Thank you!
to all readers of this board:since there r similarities with my choosen board name: i am not writing as ex emf.i wanna make this clear because i find ex emfs postings somehow creepy.i apreciate this board and read it regularly.since most of the people here r more skiled in writing i dont give my input often because most is written already.ex [ramster husband.....]ps:live is great after shaking off the cult.
thank you ex for the explanation.
I always value your input, btw.
I am still trying to figure out where
ex-emf is coming from.
i want to also say that i enjoy your posts. sometimes a little hard to read, but i do understand the point you're getting across in your writing. thanks for making the effort and taking the time !
we're all aware of the atrocities on this world. however, i don't see where that is the issue here. you are asking what CULT is responsible for that?
well, what cult do YOU think is responsible for that?
why are you asking david ? whatever/whomever is responsible for the atrocities on this world, does that exhonerate the atrocities that have been experienced and/or witnessed according to those who have spoken out about such, re: rse ? what IS your point?
you were asked if you are a current student. the fact is, you ARE a current student because you have not yet missed a mandatory event.
given that fact, as you stated it, why are you posting here ? are you considering leaving rse ? are you intending to stay current, but want to post here and possibly attempt to "stir the pot", so to speak?
While there are probably some people here who left RSE and still have a 'current status' since the year isn't up, ex emf's posts do seem a tad "bipolar" imo. Ex emf, one has to make up their mind where they are going at some point- either **** or get off the pot or wine as it might be. No disrespect intended; however, one finds the ambivalence confusing. Perhaps english is not your first language, or you're confused and caught between your RSE friends and doubts you're experiencing.
Or is that YOU, JR?!
You have been quick to ridicule with your somewhat cryptic messages.
One of the tragedies of becoming ensnared in a “Cult” is it’s insidiousness
to nullify the ideals and power it’s victim without them even knowing it.... much like the burglar who visits their home!... robbing them not only of wealth and liberty but their ability to have been an instrument of greater good for all humanity.
And just as tragically..
They have unwitting become the destructive virus.... now spreading the disease they set out to eradicate..
If you care to look closely into your heart and mind perhaps you will discover the fingerprints of a burglar!
that what has been replaced.. is a forgery.
The Emotional Pain Of Leaving A Cult
The following is how former cult members and members of spiritually abusive systems described how they felt when they finally left their group. This may give you some insight into their pain and why there are no easy answers for them.
It Hurts to discover you were deceived - that what you thought was the “one true religion,” the “path to total fredom,” or “truth” was in reality a cult.
It Hurts when you learn that people you trusted implicitly - whom you were taught not to question - were “pulling the wool over your eyes” albeit unwittingly.
It Hurts when you learn that those you were taught were your “enemies” were telling the truth after all - but you had been told they were liars, deceivers, repressive, satanic etc and not to listen to them.
It Hurts when you know your faith in God hasn’t changed - only your trust in an organization - yet you are accused of apostasy, being a trouble maker, a “Judas”. It hurts even more when it is your family and friends making these accusations.
It Hurts to realize their love and acceptance was conditional on you remaining a member of good standing. This cuts so deeply you try and suppress it. All you want to do is forget - but how can you forget your family and friends?
It Hurts to see the looks of hatred coming from the faces of those you love - to hear the deafening silence when you try and talk to them. It cuts deeply when you try and give your child a hug and they stand like a statue, pretending you aren’t there. It stabs like a knife when you know your spouse looks upon you as demonised and teaches your children to hate you.
It Hurts to know you must start all over again. You feel you have wasted so much time. You feel betrayed, disillusioned, suspicious of everyone including family, friends and other former members.
It Hurts when you find yourself feeling guilty or ashamed of what you were - even about leaving them. You feel depressed, confused, lonely. You find it difficult to make decisions. You don’t know what to do with yourself because you have so much time on your hands now - yet you still feel guilty for spending time on recreation.
It Hurts when you feel as though you have lost touch with reality. You feel as though you are “floating” and wonder if you really are better off and long for the security you had in the organization and yet you know you cannot go back.
It Hurts when you feel you are all alone - that no one seems to understand what you are feeling. It hurts when you realize your self confidence and self worth are almost non-existent.
It Hurts when you have to front up to friends and family to hear their “I told you so” whether that statement is verbal or not. It makes you feel even more stupid than you already do - your confidence and self worth plummet even further.
It Hurts when you realize you gave up everything for the cult - your education, career, finances, time and energy - and now have to seek employment or restart your education. How do you explain all those missing years?
It Hurts because you know that even though you were deceived, you are responsible for being taken in. All that wasted time ... at least that is what it seems to you - wasted time.
The Pain Of Grief
Leaving a cult is like experiencing the death of a close relative or a broken relationship. The feeling is often described as like having been betrayed by someone with whom you were in love. You feel you were simply used.
There is a grieving process to pass through. Whereas most people understand that a person must grieve after a death etc, they find it difficult to understand the same applies in this situation. There is no instant cure for the grief, confusion and pain. Like all grieving periods, time is the healer.
Some feel guilty, or wrong about this grief. They shouldn’t - It IS normal. It is NOT wrong to feel confused, uncertain, disillusioned, guilty, angry, untrusting - these are all part of the process. In time the negative feelings will be replaced with clear thinking, joy, peace, and trust.
Yes - It hurts but the hurts will heal with time, patience & understanding.
There is life after the cult.
Copyright 1985, 1995 Jan Groenveld
Cult Awareness & Information Centre,
PO Box 2444,
Hey, David - thanks for sharing that article. It's so real. I mean, rather than an academic tone (which has its place), it's clearly written from the heart. That's a hard place to look from, when we leave a cult and have to face a roller coaster of emotions. Lashing out, or ridiculing those who would want to help isn't going to be productive, though...to a point...it's understandable.
David quoted from Jan Groenveld. I used to interact with her over cases. She died in 2002.
She ran an independent, small "anti-cult" effort out of Queensland, Australia.
Leaving a cult can also mean taking on responsibility for knowing why anyone leaves a cult. Jan did that till the day she died in her humble effort to help others despite lawsuit threats from large groups.