**Note about this thread: I asked the moderators to delete the thread because my email address was in plain sight which I hadn't intended. The only way to fix it was to delete the thread, so I am re-posting along with the replies. I don't kid myself about remaining anonymous on this site, however, I've said enough about myself that many will already know who I am. I just didn't want have to put my email addy out there for everyone to see Thanks for understanding!**


This is my first post although I have been reading the board since it's inception, thank you to those who run the site and all who have contributed.

My story is long as I'm sure many of yours are... basically, I came to Yelm in 1992 after dropping out of high school, abandoning my family and friends along with my dreams. I became thoroughly engrossed in 'the school' for the next 8 years attending as many events as I could manage, mostly on credit.

In 2000 I met my now husband who was also in RSE at the time. He had not been in the school as long as I so when he suggested one day that we might skip our mandatory retreat and actually pay our rent (novel concept!!) I was appalled. Somehow though, I had come to a place where I felt that it was important to 'live the teachings' and that if that meant being 'impecable' and standing by my responsibility to pay rent over going to an event, that would be my next step.

So in a strange way, my staunch belief in 'the teachings' was also what helped me find my way out. Although we initially intended to go back for a 'catch-up event' there was this huge burden that fell from my shoulders after that first event we missed. Admittedly, I also enjoyed my outcast/rebel status of having dared to 'drop out'. There was a relief, and the more distance I got, the more my whole perception changed - from: I'll go to the next catch-up event, to: I don't have a feeling to go back right now, to: I don't think I'll ever go back, but I still believe in Ramtha, to: I think the whole thing is a crock of ... ... JZ's imagination. 9/11 and the RSE community's reaction also completely baffled me and could not have done more to push me further away.

There's a lot more of course, but I now well and truly feel that I have my life back. There's so much processing that I still feel is going on in me even though it has been 6 years since I've been to an event. In some ways I just want to forget about my time at RSE but I do feel there's lots to gain from the community created through this forum and I'm grateful for that.

My 2nd post:
Shoot, I guess I can't edit my post. In the last sentence I meant to say that there's lots to gain from the community created through this forum and I feel like I'm ready to participate in that.

EyesWideOpen replied:
Hi Littlewiseone,
I am curious about your comment, "9/11 and the RSE community's reaction baffled me..."

Could you please say more about that?

And welcome to the Nebuchadnezzar.

Tree replied:
welcome! littlewiseone!
It is always nice to know this forum is having an effect and a safe place to post
and be.

Wolfman replied:
EWO.......Regarding RSE stance on 9-11....

I was there when Judith gave her support to Cheney/Bush war actions while she flew a big American Flag outside her compound.

She should of flown the thing upside down.

I almost threw up my Montauk Cocktail after that little petite chat.

Tree replied:
not to mention the full length ad in the Nisqaully Paper-American flag and all supporting our president.


That's it! Now, back to the discussion!

Little and Wolf,

Would you both please elaborate on the attitude/position that you are referring to with regard to 9-11 and the Bush election ?

I remember watching videos, where "Ramtha" was talking about the upcoming war. "He" said we would go to war and it would go on for many years, which it needed to do. (I disagree) Also, I remember "him" talking about a day when 10 year old children would be sent to war with guns, to fight, because that's what it would all come to (need warm bodies). There was more doom and gloom "future" that was being created (insert sarcasm) by this God-being.

However, I don't remember the teachings as they related to the 9-11 tragedy. I would expect, given the history there, that they believe in some sort of conspiracy theory. That's commonplace there.

Thanks everyone for the welcome. Eyes, as far as everyone's reaction to 9/11, let me say that it was spring '01 when I 'dropped out' so when the attacks occurred in Sept I already had a little bit of distance.

Like most sane people, I was totally devastated by the destruction of 9/11 and it was a first experience for me of allowing myself to feel (again), after so much time in the school of being 'the observer and detaching' from my emotions. It was then that I realized why we were taught to 'detach' - because it hurt too much to feel another's pain and it was too devastating to not be able to fix it or even comprehend it's purpose.

Many people in the school reacted with the old 'they created it' line and as I watched them it was so plain to me that they were scrambling for an explanation to a question that simply didn't have a good (or simple) answer: why did this happen?

Do you remember the Mohamed Atta 'manuscript'? Supposedly it was kind of a directive for the hijackers with instructions about how to ready themselves for 'the big day'. I was shocked to read the things he had written. I'd have to look it up again to be exact, but phrases like: they had to purify their minds of all doubt, and that they were giving up their physical lives for the kingdom of heaven, all the hard work would pay off, etc, etc. I don't remember what else but so much of it truly sounded like it could have come directly from 'Ramtha's' mouth. I realized that any crazy person in the school could take the teachings and commit a 9/11 and justify it to themselves plus, there was nothing in the teachings that actually would contradict them! I think it made me realize how extreme 'the teachings' really are. Of course had you told me that while I was still in the school it would have made me proud! I guess it took a 9/11 to put it in perspective for me.

I also knew young people who's beloved parents told them in no uncertain terms that they would be blasted to smitherenes if they dared to visit their parents during a smallpox/anthrax outbreak. These were parents talking to their children for freak's sake! That was also while people were burning their mail because they didn't want to be exposed to anthrax. Ha, what ever happened to the 10 suitcases that were suppose to simultaneously explode all over the world...? That's not to say I think terrorists wouldn't plan such a thing, it just wasn't a terribly accurate prediction or at least as accurate as saying 'there will be another terrorist attack'.

Whatcha....

To the best of my ex mind control memory, Judy Knight held a petite chat right after the bombings of 9-11.

She stated that she supported our President and his actions.

What a good American daughter Judi is.

Hi Wolf ! Thanks - I didn't remember that.

Wise, that's right !!! I forgot about that false prophecy that 10 suitcases would explode, at various point around the world, by terrorists. But, I was at that event and I did hear it. Oh, gosh, if I were to take my notes out...

D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L
That's all I ever had to write in there !

"...they had to purify their minds of all DOUBT, and that they are giving up their physical lives for the Kingdom of Heaven, all the hard work will pay off..."

Yes, these are all statements I have heard JZ/"Ramtha" say over and over and over again. It is fair to say that this is the basis of what is taught at RSE and it is presented under the guise of personal evolution. All of the disciplines are designed to train the "student" to think in a very specific way, JZ/"Ramtha's" way. "Doubt is the sword of the ego" is a famous "Ramthism" and what it means is that one must believe everything JZ/"Ramtha" says and one must do everything JZ/"Ramtha" in order to achieve enlightenment (the kingdom of Heaven.) In cult jargon "one must believe" and "one must do" is called coersive persuasion.

And, yes, there is evidence that terrorists receive similiar training. In my experience and opinion RSE is a dangerous place. I had no idea what I was becoming involved in. On the surface it looked innocent enough but the simple fact is that I was naive. Naivete is an exploitable quality and the exploitation which, in my opinion, occurs at RSE is beautifully wrapped in the packaging, "you create your own reality." Find your way out of that labyrinth!

ps As one finds one's way out of the RSE maze another famous "Ramthism" plays in the mind..."IF YOU COMPLAIN YOU ARE A VICTIM! VICTIMS ARE BAD! VICTIMS ARE FAILURES!"

Abuse, abuse, abuse.

Has anyone ever heard of anyone actually having a nervous breakdown as a result of these teachings?... I wonder about the message to "create one's own reality"... This seems to me like it would be very confusing and "crazy making"...

Howdy Marie,
To answer your question, I heard "Ramtha" say "Having a nervous breakdown is a good thing. It means you're changing!!"

Changing into what is the question

I agree. Not that a 'nervous breakdown' is good imo, but that JR states such. The words I remember hearing, among many I DON'T remember hearing but probably heard - gulp - are 'the personality begins to disintegrate and fracture.' Yes, just like JR's fractured personality. I know at my beginner's I and one of my group partners were very upset after one lecture about the nature of all that we grew up with was just washed away. I called home as soon as I could to get my spouse to arrange for me to get the heck out of there. I knew in my heart it was a cult, but yet something kept pulling me back. Post-hypnotic suggestion or mind control? My spouse and kids said I was less demonstrative and very detached from them during this time. I fully already believed, even with the 'inner knowledge' it was a cult. The mainstrean religions I knew had lied in many instances. I only wanted truth and the ability to heal illnesses. Now, quotes from the Buddha seem to help me. Just be. Be who you are and what you are and live without some 'alien' or 'multiple personality' tells you to do. The failure of our 'history' to allow us knowledge is partially to blame. Organized religion hasn't helped with their mandates and dogma. So I asked myself, what was I doing there? (after many events). What's wrong with doubting? Would I believe some stranger who told me their trousers could talk? So why wasn't I permitted to question JR?

Oh John Lennon. You had it right. Love is all there is.

EWO posted: "ps As one finds one's way out of the RSE maze another famous "Ramthism" plays in the mind..."IF YOU COMPLAIN YOU ARE A VICTIM! VICTIMS ARE BAD! VICTIMS ARE FAILURES!"

Abuse, abuse, abuse."

Be that as it may, it's the students who had the wherewithall to face the truth about RSE, and become not victims to it, but the VICTORS. They are free of that cult, and, in my opinion, that's exactly what it is. To coin a Ramtha phrase (that isn't copywritten, hahha), RSE is a cult talking t-r-a-s-h.

With the dire doom and gloom predictions for 2008, etc, what excuse will their be when it doesn't happen ??? Also, are the Current Students planning for it TO happen ? Or, are they the powerful Goddies that they are told that they are, CREATING a new timeline so the doom and gloom doesn't happen ? Do they need or want for ANY of that doom/gloom to happen so that they can be right ? If so, what is THAT all about ??? I mean - they have an investment (food, underground housing, etc) in being right about all of this.

I was told by a student who participated, that about 2 years ago (give or take a bit), RamtHer told the students to go into "lock down" for a MONTH. This student was very proud that they were able to continue to conduct their daily affairs, from HOME, with no problem. I was not at this event and didn't hear it, personally. But I was told this directly by a participant in the month-long lockdown.


That answer, however, begs the question of why is it that they had to create even the potential, for doom and gloom ?????

There are common people, who aren't even, nor have been, masters in the school, who believe there won't be doom and gloom in the future as RSE has presented it. What then does that make of the students (like the tsunami tradegy victims?), who don't have the "knowingness" that the predictions of utter doom and gloom, are not coming to pass ?

It's such a hypocrisy, and it's so sad that they don't have the eyes to see it. Well, those who get out, do.

"I was told by a student who participated, that about 2 years ago (give or take a bit), RamtHer told the students to go into "lock down" for a MONTH."

I was at that event, and I participated
"to the best of my ability."



It was horrendous, esp if you had an ex partner, and there were children involved, and each person who heard the
"message" played it out
as each deemed fit.
My ex was TOTALLY fanatical and they locked themselves in the confines of their
5 acres, food, wine,et al.
I, on the other hand, had "real job" in the outside world , with a child who went to school, in the "outside world."

After I had procurred my entire Thanksgiving meal, Christmas trimmings, presents, food, wine, etc for the entire 6 weeks, my son decides to go with the other parent. OMG! I had about $4 left to my name.
A friend of mine placed a wager on how long my son would last at the more fanatical parents' house. We agreed, less than three days.
Sure enough, I get a call to come get my son at the end of the driveway on day two.


At that point, I just threw in the towel.

At the next event, "r" (copyrighted) sais:
"It was a test."

um....yeah.

now it is totally laughable.
quite maddening at the time.

the lockdown conflicted with the follow up.since foreign students need locals to keep their travelingcost down.he she had to lift the lockdown even so foreigners were the highest riskgroup.they came out of an airplane.ramtha created real hostile situations with this lockdown.i remember how i got labeled as unresponsible against my families life when i said i will consider a lokdown after one smalpock case in the surrounding towns.to my rememberence this was after 9 11.

jenna...ex...

yeah, it is laughable, except that it was for real and some mindless students followed orders.

i'm telling you, i hope to goodness that the big dude/dudette doesn't tell them to drink the kool-aid, because there are some i am sure will Just Do It.

ya know ?

i had a partner/woman one time tell me that she would do whatever ramtHer said to do. no questions asked.

blech.

ramther told students s/he was going to wash their brains. yep...and poured them down the drain because those people just aren't CRITICALLY THINKING anymore.

sad. very sad.

yup-
I participated in this AND 5/5/2000
which was another "mock-down".
Go to your UG, or if you don't have one , go to the highest place near you and practice for 5 days, that which you would do if a meltdown hit the area ( no feed transportation, etc).
I know people who forced their kids to do disciplines nearly the entire time UG.
As this was also at the height of the wine ceremonies, my little group
(of about 15) took to camping , wine and all. And to think we all took time off from work for this madness!!