I am starting a new thread that I think deserves attention of a very personal kind, and since it was started on a tangent of another, I have included the other posters comments to start this thread.

Eyes Wide Open said:
Controlling sexuality is one of the factors that identifies a group as a cult. A cult leader may forbid sex or encourage it, the point being that s/he is in control and not the participants.

A former cult member told me that in her cult sexuality was encouraged and the men could approach any woman they chose at any time, including married women. If a woman refused she was berated and criticized by the cult leader and her husband! She said this conduct caused all of the female cult members to feel "dirty." Controlling someone else's body is an intense form of oppression.

Tree states:
from Take Back Your Life:
There may be stringent sexual control of followers through tactics such as
forced celibacy, arranged marriages, forced break ups,
removal of children from their parents and mandated births.


I have seen all but one of these tactics
performed at RSE.

Whatchmacallit writes:
For years, the teachings were along the lines of students being so evolved that they were done with human sexuality, anyway. Having transcended that first three seal stuff, a master would be celibate, and would drive the energy up to the brain, not down into the first "chakra".

Gee, if all of our parents had that viewpoint, we wouldn't be here.

I agree with David, in that there were so many twisted teachings on sexuality there, that most relationships are in danger. Yet, what a hypocrisy it all was, when later on in the teachings (years), "Ramtha" played matchmaker and put certain folks together to get married, and have children. That's an (in my opinion) insane amount of control to give someone, over your own body/life as to TELL one, who to partner with. Just incredible.

David writes:
Please note...
“You beginners”..It’s only a matter of time before your beloved teacher will enter “your bedroom”….
It's few relationships that can survive RSE membership..
Then it’s all over… except for the trail of broken homes and broken hearts,
with the children often caught in the crossfire.,
But that’s how it works in a cult.
I remember “Ramtha” berating us menfolkies about our apparent rampant and disgusting ************ habits, You are a bunch of squirters “he” shouted… Don’t you know that every time you “spill your seed” that you are dying..
Yikes… "Ramtha" is watching"..that was my final curtain to a healthy sexual mind …and a slide back to the age of Victorian sexuality…
As for the RSE gay community, what chance do they have to survive Judith’s gay bashing?
There are three main points to the RSE teachings on sexuality….
1. Guilt
2. Guilt
3. Guilt ….

The Divide and Rule methods of Judith’s RSE indoctrinations is the death bell to any healthy and loving relationships.

"Tree states:
from Take Back Your Life:
There may be stringent sexual control of followers through tactics such as
forced celibacy, arranged marriages, forced break ups,
removal of children from their parents and mandated births.


I have seen all but one of these tactics
performed at RSE."

Whoa, when I did not have my blinders on I saw all of these control tactics used by JZ/"Ramtha" at RSE. His/her teaching of celibacy is legion and the proclaimed benefits are many. According to JZ/"Ramtha" when men and women orgasm they are dissipating their life force and it will be FOREVER diminished. If one wants to be an immortal one must contain and preserve the life force of the body. Instead of sex, practice C&E. Drive that energy up to the brain where it will electrify your thought thereby speeding it into the reality of this dimension as a manifestation. (Great story...)

Curiously enough JZ has trademarked "C&E" but there is evidence that she herself does not practice it. I recall a few evenings when a drunk JZ/"Ramtha" got on a roll about the sexual relationship between JZ and her boyfriend. Steamy.

"Arranged marriages," anyone? Some famous ones come to mind...let's see now...I was there when JZ/"Ramtha" announced that Lady Cosmos and "Gambler" (a Red Guard)could eliminate thousands of years from their evolutionary travail if they "got together." That same evening I overheard her saying, "Anyone but him!" The sacrifices one makes for enlightenment...

Then there is Dr. Joe and "Copper haired beauty." At that time Joe was in JZ's good graces and they socialized together. Perhaps JZ liked "Copper haired beauty" and figured she would be a positive addition to their dinner parties. Whatever the reason, JZ/"Ramtha" announced at an event that they should get together and they did.

"Forced break-ups." There were plenty of these during the "truth teachings" which took place in '97, '98, '99 and thereabouts. JZ/"Ramtha" would single out a "student" (stooge) in the audience. "STAND UP!!!" was the ultimatum and then the fun began...Sheeesh, JZ/"Ramtha" would launch into what can only be described as a sexual tirade, alledgedly describing all sorts of sexual privacies concerning that particular student. At the end of it JZ/"Ramtha" would involve the student's partner/spouse
pointing out how vile the consciousness of this student is and if you stay with them you are dirtying yourself, too! Oh yeah, JZ/"Ramtha" thought nothing of breaking up relationships and who knows if what s/he said was/is true??

"Removal of child from their parents."
Well, anytime you break up a relationship where their are children you have removed a child from either of the parents some of the time.

"Mandated births."
The very first wine ceremony was held at Boktau, 1996. Up to that point JZ/"Ramtha" had always said, "Don't drink alcohol. It destroys brain cells which cannot be replaced." So imagine our surprise/confusion when it was announced that we were all to make a trip into town in order to buy a bottle of red wine. (And JZ said, "Don't be cheap, spend at least $10.00) Next instructions: "Don't eat anything. Nothing. All day." So we didn't and everyone there became rip roaring drunk. Picture 1,000 people who haven't had a drink in who knows how long downing a full bottle of wine all at once on an empty stomach. It wasn't pretty...At a subsequent event JZ/"Ramtha commented on the number of births which took place exactly 9 months after that wine ceremony. JZ/"Ramtha" said, "They were off in the bushes as the result of all that wine." Does that qualify as mandated births??

as far as mandated births, I was in audience when he told one of the Red Guards (one of the Loercher boys) to go out that night , as the child they had so wanted would be conceived. God knows how many more there were.

Or how about the time when a woman(who happens to prefer women) in the audience started to weave her way into the inner sanctum, sat up by the wall to the left of the stage during a wine ceremony, and asked Ramtha if being gay was fine. After some discourse with her, Ramtha then told Jimmie Capezio (then in the inner realms) to go out and , and I quote, "bang " this woman than night. And so it went.

It just seemed (just like in the MAFU video) that JZ catches wind from a friend or staff person, then brings it up "in audience" as if she was psychic.

i dident have time when this thread appeared but since i was married to an entusiastic ramster i tell you guys which advices got taken very serious from judyram from my partner:spirituel growth is more important than...spilling the seed makes you die be thankfull for not having sex.make me choose between ramtha and you you know my dessision.no sex for paycheck [but give the money anyway].to aussiegirl:we dident make it[ramthter non ramthterrelationshipp]i hope your partner finds out what a treasure a indipendent mind is and you guys make it.as i wittnesed and of course my oppinion:every aspect of live tried to get controled from jzr.enbeded in extraordinary teachings comes the advice to have or not to have....buy or not to buy....go or not to go...curiously there is allways a profit for jz.my expirience:when you throw the cruches of disciplines away and relay on yourself you prosper and you have a happy live.maybe not extraordinary but you can sleep at night.and from another thread:relationschipps are not cheap.but i guess you cant control contend people.

Judy'sRamtha of the mid-80's warned against men "spilling their seed" in ************ - NOT in mutual loving sexual activity betweeen two people. In fact, many so called runners were sent for people to once again experience "fire in the belly"/ indicated to mean sexual arousal - and a partner with which to share such.
Perhaps this belongs under the 'inconsistencies' thread: how did/does Judy rationalize wine ceremony orgies with not spilling seed, or 'designated' marriages? or "Ramtha" describing Judy's sexual activity with James? or proclaiming the specialness of the children born out of drunken orgiastic sex?

got **** out - *** equal male stimulation of own sexual part to point of spilling seed

ex - I do sometimes worry that we won't make it, I try hard to be respectful of the beliefs, after all I was married to a Muslim previously so have some experience of being in a relationship with someone who has such opposing views. BUT its sometimes really difficult to understand how an intelligent person can choose such a wacked out cult like RSE and believe the channeling and the ridiculous contradictory nonsense that is spouted.

It seems easier to understand someone growing up in a religious household to follow a belief system you dont agree with than a mature adult choosing to believe a surgery enhanced saleswoman pretending to be a 35,000 year old being. From the outside looking in its an absolute joke, and trying to equate that joke with the mature intelligent man you are in love with is a real challenge.

Having this forum has helped me enormously, it has given me patience and understanding and a lot of knowledge. I am learning to hold my tongue, only occassionally do I even skim on the surface of any subject that could be vaguely associated with RSE and even then my comments are brief and non-inflamatory. I am trying as many of you have suggested to plant small seeds of awareness that aren't obvious to an overly sensitive ramster mind.

On the topic of sex, its interesting that the longer we are together the less abstinence is discussed, in the beginning it was a major issue for my partner. The ageing thing you know! I know that sex is a wonderful part of life and is one of those things guaranteed to keep you young, but without any pseudo scientific evidence at hand I can't discuss that aspect with my partner.

Someone posted recently (maybe on another thread) about RSE discouraging attachment between people and there was a lot of encouragement to move on in relationships. My partner certainly wants to feel like that, but he can't, it drives him crazy that he cares about my opinion and how I feel but thats the humanity in us. I love it that whilst he tries to not let his emotions control him, they do, its the one thing that makes me optimistic we will make it.

Aussiegirl-
I, too, hope for the best for you two.

My experience, here in Yelm, and I do think it is not as intense in this vein, OUTSIDE of Yelm, is that most relationships do not work.
In the case where the couple is let's say, in the 55-70 age group, who came into school together, I have witnessed those relationships as downright
mean and twisted. They are very ugly with
each other ( I have done work for a few couples in this group).
I think the older ladies who have husbands that are NOT in the school, I think those couple just kinda tolerate
each other.
For people who are younger (than let's say 50), I think the mix of one being in
and one being out, is very very tough.
And in Yelm, they don't last, unless
BOTH get out of RSE.
I just think cohersive persuasive groups
utterly destroy the healthiness of relationships.

Thanks Jenna,

There is no denying that its not easy to be with someone involved in a cult. The fact that we are in Australia though and removed is of enormous benefit. Will my partner's involvement in RSE ultimately be our undoing, I don't know. At the moment with only two years together he hasn't been practicising the disciplines or attending events, this may change as the years go by but it all helps to keep conflict out of our relationship. I am scared at the thought of him attending an event, not so much in Australia but in Yelm, it sounds like such a coersive environment and I would not be there to remind him of the "real" world.

Have any of you experienced events where there are people attending who think its all a bit silly? I told my partner I would go with him to an event if he wanted (he often argues how can I comment about something I have never experienced) but I don't think I could keep a straight face, what happens if you vocally disagree with JZ/Ramtha? I am pretty outspoken and no retiring wall flower, I certainly wouldn't be toasting anyone or doing any forced group activities. There must be partners and friends of ramsters who go along once and think its a big joke, any experience out there?

Back in 1991, I had dragged a bunch of my extended family members there. Uggg. Well, my brother thought it was all total bull**** from the start. He went because his wife made him go. So, when we were doing "So Be It" during C&E, he was saying "So viet union" just to insert some humor into his day.

They never went back.
My brother's wife was so rattled by the experience, that she went from being an atheist, to a born-again christian. She was convinced, after experiencing 'Ramtha', that evil did exist. (I'm serious...this did happen)

Long story short, none of my relatives remained in the "school", long to this day. One of them was in for about 7 years. The $$$$ went too low for her to continue and that was her awakening that ... wow...you really are only welcome to learn The Truth, if you pony up the do-re-mi. Something about that fact hitting home, caused her to pause long enough to reevaluate the priorities there.

Of course, students get blamed (always) if they do not have the funds to continue going to the school. Because if they don't, that means they weren't powerful enough, focused enough Goddies, to pull in the money. That's a diversion, in my opinion, from the real issue.

The real issue is this, imo; WE should not have to live our lives with having more and more money as a focal point, because of JZ's desire to be a billionaire. That's her trip, not everyone else's. There are people that have a lot of money, some money, or not much at all. They may be content not chasing dollars, and living a simple life - so - if that is the case, then why would they be denied "truth", unless there is an agenda that has nothing to do with the student's ability to manifest money - but in fact, has everything to do with coercion to make more and more money so that we can pay JZ for her version of "reality".

I am so, so thankful that I am out of that insanity.

"I am so, so thankful that I am out of that insanity. "

Whatcha -- I'm thankful you're out of that insanity too!...

In response to Cowboy -
I truely believe that many of the break-ups and match-makings were inspired by ulterior motives of JZ to further her control over others. Fueled by her own insecurities and preying on others insecurities - "truth" teachings full of lies about a person or taken out of context to distort the truth just to degrade and discredit them...I certainly don't know what was behind all of the many manipulations but several instances involved me or someone close and they are certainly suspect to say the least. Many appear to come from differant angles all leading back to a JZ motive - The Dr Joe/Copper Hair Beauty Example would not only enhance her social circle of "powerful" ($$$) women which help give Ramtha and JZ more credibilty to the public (like the use of celebritys names as well) but also to enhance Dr Joes image at the time he is being groomed as a teacher for the school and further degrades his current relationship at that time (who happened to be an old partner of James and probably a perceived threat if only on a mundane level ie: younger/skinnier)
As for the mandates to produce children...more on that later...

"I truely believe that many of the break-ups and match-makings were inspired by ulterior motives of JZ to further her control over others"

This is so succinctly put.

Since leaving the school, my heart goes
out to those that JZ manipulated
and dosey-do-ed.
Truly manipulating to the nth degree.
Not to mention repeatedly telling
Lady Cosmos how bad she was for
doing what she does best,
astroligical readings.
To constantly put her down for that, saying
"I am the only way" was to influence
JZ's ultimate power even more.
And THEN, to hook up "Gambler" with
Cosmos, so Blue Body's best friend could
become a kept man as well, because
both of them have the work ethic
of surfers.
What a social, financial, sexual exploitation.arg!!!!