Housekeeping: As is posted on the EMF Message Board page, this forum is for support, sharing opinions and experiences for those who have left RSE and have doubts and concerns about their tenure there. It is NOT a place for proselytizing for RSE, JZK Inc or Ramtha. Play nicely or your post will be sent to cyberspace time-out for all eternity. The disclaimer for EMF is located on this page http://enlightenmefree.com/disclaimer.html and all posters agree to the terms of the disclaimer. Be sure you've read it before posting.
You may also want to visit a complementary forum at FACTNet http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/779.html
If you wish to use a Spell Checker, you may wish to use this free one: http://www.jacuba.com/
For an excellent exposition on what the bleep is missing in the Secret and its bleeping counterpart - as well as illuminating the darkness of Judy's Ramtha mis-teachings - go to:
("Critique of "The Secret"" March 5, '07).
Agreed. It is excellent material. Thanks for sharing.
Why is this post here on this site, when it does not concern the RSE cult?
I know people who no longer post on this website because the message seems to be, don't just get out of RSE, get out of anything that has to do even remotely with New Age beliefs, because it's all just another cult. What's left? Either atheism or the established churches. If you are an atheist or follow an established religion, your views won't be questioned on this site, they will be respected and left alone.
If you go through all the strife of leaving the Ramtha cult, it will be implied on this site that you aren't going to be truly free until you give up your New Age beliefs too. That's a turn-off to a lot of the very people this site was set up to help. That's also a major reason why this site, as useful as it is, turns off ex-Ramsters I know--because every ex-Ramster I know still holds so-called New Age beliefs. Ever wonder why the same handful of people write the majority of posts on this site, when there are so many former Ramtha followers in the world?
So why are you piggybacking your anti-The Secret post on this site? If you want to invest your own time and energy to start an anti-The Secret website, you have the right to do that. In fact, why not do that? You could go after all the people involved in that or related to that, including books from As a Man Thinketh to Creative Visualization. Or you could start your own anti-New Age website. Go after all beliefs and philosophies that don't match your own.
Now, for the record, I haven't said one thing in support of The Secret. I think The Secret is a contemporary repackaging of a lot of material that has been available all over this planet, for centuries. It can be a useful tool to change one's life, but it's not the whole toolkit, and it doesn't say it is.
My point is, the stated purpose of this site is not to serve as a forum for those who are anti-the Secret, anti-Al Gore, anti-all things New Age, etc. There are other websites specifically set up to discuss those things. The EMF moderators may allow such posts because they agree with them, but they are still off-topic.
What's worse, such posts are the reason that I and every other ex-Ramster I know have mixed feelings about the EMF site. We'd like to be able to recommend EMF wholeheartedly to our friends who are current RSE students, but we can't. It's the only forum we know where RSE students can read and consider views pertaining to Ramtha that are outside JZ's rigid control. But if those RSE students happen to hold New Age beliefs, or find information of value to them in The Secret, they don't find a welcoming home on this forum.
And that's a shame, imho.
Did you listen to Houston's comments?
"get out of anything that has to do even remotely with New Age beliefs, because it's all just another cult." - and where did you get this opinion? It's certainly NOT the EMF perspective. Yes, there's been discussion on lumping/not lumping/naming/not naming all things spiritual under the title of New Age. And there's been no consensus or policy statement re "New Age". Most of the people I know who participate on this message board are very spiritually oriented. Accepting or rejecting a label of New Age has nothing to do with spirituality -- of which you seem seem to have a very limited view (including a limited view of Christianity, and perhaps all Sacred Traditions).
The Houston talk expands, clarifies, puts into perspective the "law of attraction" promoted in the Secret -- and simultaneously expands, clarifies, puts into perspective what is/isn't taught in What the Bleep and at the Ranch.
It's your kind of judgmental harsh limited perspective kind of posts that turn people off.
I wasn't trying to promote or put down anything -- I was personally delighted that a credible voice spoke to the danger in the limited view presented by the Secret. I was just sharing the option if someone else wanted to listen to it.
Bottom line - I just don't 'get' where you're coming from.
"If you go through all the strife of leaving the Ramtha cult, it will be implied on this site that you aren't going to be truly free until you give up your New Age beliefs too." ---- Where in the world did you ever come up with that conclusion? "New Age" has lost meaning to me as a valid phrase - in that it seems to have simultaneous and different meanings for people. So I just don't understand what you're talking about. The very fact that this website exists could be called "New Age" - in the sense that it is people coming from a compassionate place wanting to reach out to serve/help/facilitate healing in others. You gotta problem with that? You find that limiting?
Again and still - I don't get where you're coming from.
Thank you Graced…
You are bashing EMF for apparently bashing the New Age movement by way of graced thread “The Secret”
This is nonsense…
But your post did prompt me go listen to Jane Houston's "Critique of "The Secret"
just in case it was totally inappropriate viewing on EMF…
I have the DVD of "The Secret" and for the most part I found it silly and boring.
I do find parallels with RSE, primarily with its hyperactive docudrama presentations … similar to the “What the Bleep” movie.
“The Secret” is no secret at all..just a clever promotion of the “ believe and receive” gurus’..
Perhaps the real secret is …It's massive money making business agenda …cleverly riding on the back of another dreadful movie the “Da vinci Code” .
It is a prime example of selfishness camouflaged as Godliness…..
The innocuous hook to spiritual corruption and the road to cultville.
This has everything to do with the workings of RSE,
Some interesting info on “The Secret” can be found on Wikipedia.
Am I right in thinking I hear the voice of OneHand?
"Ever wonder why the same handful of people write the majority of posts on this site..."
No need to wonder because the answer is evident - some of us want to share and exchange ideas and others prefer not to jump in but just might want to observe. That is their prerogative...
One day I woke up and found myself a former member of a cult. Meaning that I had decided to stop participating at RSE without realizing that it is a cult. I only found that out later when I was NO LONGER DOING DISCIPLINES.
How could a practical down-to-earth person like me have ended up in a cult? It didn't make any sense so I made up my mind (which was no longer under the direction of Ramtha) to seek out resources and educate myself. I post in order to make up for lost time. If something I come across is of benefit or interest to someone else, I'm glad about that. And I am interested in exchanging ideas and would like to hear the insights of others.
The only rule I am aware of here is no grandstanding for Ramtha. What's the big deal? In my opinion the moderators may sometimes be a little hasty chasing current students away but it is their website, they're responsible for it and they get to run it as they see fit. I'm free to start my own website if I want to.
Concerning new age topics there has been plenty of discussion. I hope that you won't mind me pointing out that your conclusion, EMF is anti-new age, is an example of black and white thinking which is part of cult indoctrination. There are no "positions" here. There are only people exchanging ideas.
Some of the things I have learned here have been of great use to me and I hope to learn more...like I said, I'm making up for lost time.
Let's dance, guest
Eyes Wide Open-
I just recently finished a few books that might be of interest(along with a reprieve from this gd place).
None , involving cults, per se,
many symptom-similar material( as a result of 1) abusive upbringing 2) a genetic, chemical imbalance).
BOTH is the DSMV -II
Get Me Out of Here
by Rachel Reiland
An Unquiet Mind
by Kay Redfield Jamison
Jean Houston is considered "New Age".
She personally knows some of the presenters in The Secret.
Your response is fascinating, Guest. You point out a scary tendency in all of us - to unconsciously continue to think and react as Judy/Ramtha -- judgments without facts, condemnations without love, the other always always always being wrong/unenlightened/creating their own victim reality and Judy/Ramtha/Ramsters have no responsibility. ... ... It seems to me an insidious parasite of the nature David informed us in other posts... something still in our brains/thinking/emotions and we don't know it's there - it's easier to take the Ramster away from Ramtha then it is to take the Ramtha away from the Ramster....
We're all in this together Guest - let's help each other, not bash each other.
What prompted you to bring up Christianity and Sacred Traditions? Where in my post did I say anything about Christianity or Sacred Traditions? Fascinating, as Spock would say--it's as though I mentioned fruit as a generic term, and you felt you had something valid and meaningful to say about my views concerning peaches and plums...What do you know about my views on peaches and plums? And why did those pop into your head, instead of grapes or cherries? Only you can answer that...
Can you explain part of your statement--
Perhaps the real secret is …It's massive money making business agenda …cleverly riding on the back of another dreadful movie the “Da vinci Code” .
It is a prime example of selfishness camouflaged as Godliness…..
Why is The Secret an example of selfishness? Because it made a massive amount of money? What is selfish about making a lot of money, as long as you don't commit a crime in doing that? Are Stephen King or J.K. Rowling selfish too? Their bestselling books have generated movie deals, other merchandise, and lots more money than the producers of The Secret have made--but does that make them selfish people? They are also clever business people, but are you implying that being clever in business is also somehow connected to being selfish? Can't someone be both clever in business and have an unselfish personality?
From my perspective, selfish means one takes the entire pie and doesn't leave any for anyone else, or one tries to keep other people from making their own pies. Yep, The Secret has been financially successful, and so has What the Bleep, but their monetary success doesn't take away from anybody else's opportunity to be financially successful too, does it?
"What's worse, such posts are the reason that I and every other ex-Ramster I know have mixed feelings about the EMF site. We'd like to be able to recommend EMF wholeheartedly to our friends who are current RSE students, but we can't. It's the only forum we know where RSE students can read and consider views pertaining to Ramtha that are outside JZ's rigid control. But if those RSE students happen to hold New Age beliefs, or find information of value to them in The Secret, they don't find a welcoming home on this forum. "
I for one find value in the fact that you and others have mixed feelings about this site. Perhaps one reason for this is because there are so many differing views posted here. It is not one- minded. Please continue to participate, if you are not ok with a topic, you can always skip it or even start your own that you feel is more appropriate.
As to the mention of new age beleifs, there is certainly a buyers beware feeling for most having been burnt. Some find to put aside those beliefs for now is helpful for themselves in their recovery and keeps them from falling into similar traps as RSE
Just my 2 cents
Some great post's...
Would you care to give some examples of why you feel EMF is... “anti-all things New Age?.
Do you have some involvement or income connected to the “New Age” ?
As to why I personally believe “The Secret” is a prime example of selfishness camouflaged as Godliness….This is a very important issue.. and has much in common with RSE.
I will respond to your question later this week.
Here is a clue...
It is not just the exploitation of their dissatisfaction with their lives that offends me, but the distraction that promoters of The Secret are creating from the very real, systemic issues undergirding poverty.
The book boldly and ignorantly states, "The only reason any person does not have enough money is because they are blocking money from coming to them with their thoughts." Tell that to the 36 million Americans living in poverty. Even worse, tell that to the 3 billion people worldwide who live on less that $2 a day.
David, can you explain how the little search bar works? I thought I could type in the words New Age and it would only take me to those posts on this site that have pertained to that topic, but instead I see lots and lots of posts that don't all contain those words.
Try broadening your search words..
Like … onehandontheelephant
just listened to that Jean Houston "rant" as she calls it about The Secret. I agree with David. I have and read the 'buke' but have not seen the dvd thing.
A reporter recently asked me what I thought of The Secret: "comic book spirituality" is all I could think of for a sound bite.
As far as emf posters bashing all things New Age I think "guest" is too sensitive. J Houston is lumped into New Age by skeptics and fundamentalists alike but she represents what might be good about that movement because she has been willing to change as she matures, seriously consider science (not pseudo-science like RSE) and fully discloses her sources and biases. She submits to peer review when necessary unlike some cult leaders we know.
I heard her speak in 1969 when she was young and very attractive at the University of Dayton when i was a student there, a senior. She spoke about altered states, transformation, lsd, and a lot of proto New Age ideas. She and her partner were doing serious experiments at the time with human response to certain stimulants and techniques to enhance consciousness.
Personally, I no longer like her ideas but I respect her er critique of The Secret is good in that she sees a lack of any talk about serving (real, not just sending good vibes to) your fellow man in it.
Every approach to religion or spirituality has a range of stupid to elegant and that includes the so-called "great religions", New Age and atheism. The problem with RSE and recovery from it is the process of shedding the stupid stuff and that means New Age stupid stuff too. The Secret is full of that stupid stuff. There is an elegant New Age also and in that elegance you begin to find some convergence with the similar high points of any path. Houston is one source that struggles to find the elegance and does a good job I think even if I do not accept her as a "guru".
"What prompted you to bring up Christianity and Sacred Traditions? Where in my post did I say anything about Christianity or Sacred Traditions?"....
"get out of anything that has to do even remotely with New Age beliefs, because it's all just another cult. What's left? Either atheism or the established churches."
It's your bowl of fruit Guest...
Just wanted to chime in with some comments. This is long, so you might want to get a cup of tea….
While my previous post was extremely short and to the point, I want to say that what Joe said is what I was thinking. It’s clear that Jean Houston is NOT anti-New Age, but as for The Secret, she had some criticisms. To me, her points were important because she addresses how people give their power away, especially without digging deeper first.
One thing I had posted already, is that Abraham seems to claim fame to labeling The Law of Attraction. Yet, I have an OLD book called The Master Key System by Charles Haanel. I believe it is chapter 14, that is titled, The Law of Attraction. Hmmm….which came first, the chicken or the egg ? Maybe Abraham whispered to Haanel ? I would agree that The Secret is just re-packaging some ancient, basically eastern philosophy works.
With regard to JTR’s comments about the diverse opinions posted on this website, I also agree. While the site does state it’s not set up to be a free-for-all, open to all viewpoints about anything religious/spiritually related, we have done our best (imperfect as we are), to give breadth to the diversity in posting.
We will never please everyone, that we know. We have a viewpoint such as what Guest has shared. We have also been contacted by posters who think we aren’t hard enough on posts that are clearly either anti-EMF, or pro-RSE, or both.
One poster mentioned that it seems we sometimes come down too hard/fast on a poster. It may seem that way to a reader, but we see it otherwise. There are folks who post on here with various names, which moderators are able to see. They may appear to be a new poster, but they seem new to the viewer, they’re posting under more than one identity, for whatever reasons. For example; at one point, we had an RSE supporter (anti-EMF) posting under more than a dozen different names on this message forum. When they do so, because they are negative toward EMF, it’s pretty clear it’s game playing. Sorry, no time for that.
As for Guest’s comments about wanting to tell current RSE students to read this site, wishing s/he could do so, “wholeheartedly”…. We aren’t giving carte blanche to posters to come here and disrupt the forum. If guests come here, they need to respect that there are former RSE students who question, or already believe, that RSE isn’t valid.
Why is Graced’s post being questioned as anti-New Age, when Jean Houston is clearly involved in the New Age movement. Graced simply used Houston’s resource to cite a critical viewpoint about The Secret that s/he agreed with . Not to be confused with being anti-New Age. At least, that’s how I took the intent behind that post.
I have a question for you, Guest. I’m curious about when your last RSE event was, that you attended ? In the beginning, the teachings seemed so loving and sweet. They SEEMED nice there. It’s what happened later on, slowly, and insidiously, that’s where things went wrong. I don’t think everyone here has thrown the baby out with the bathwater (thrown their spiritual life out). We have posters here who attend religious services, some who don’t, some who have a direct relationship with God, or Goddess, whatever. It’s just confusing to read that you “get” we’re anti-New Age. Perhaps if we’re “anti” anything, it’s giving one’s power away.
EMF doesn’t hold a position on New Age or religious beliefs. It’s a diversity of viewpoints that you’ll find here. However, it IS a forum initially birthed to give a voice to former RSE students who question the validity of the RSE teachings. If a poster comes here to slam us as “victims”, “angry”,
”hateful”, then yes, they are going to be called out on it.
We do have a diversity of opinions on here. Current students are welcome as guests of us, the former students; to respectfully post, though not for the purpose of undermining the intent of this forum. If they have issues they want to discuss, that’s fine. But, that’s not to say this is a place (it’s not) for proselytizing for JZ or RSE.
Save that for the arena and master’s connection. We’ve heard from people that they’ve posted challenging viewpoints about RSE there, and they’ve been promptly deleted. At least at EMF, we attempt to open a dialogue with anti-EMF posters, though they rarely get past the childish name calling about people they don’t even know. Or bullying the moderators (and also other posters) by saying they aren’t getting their way, so we’re control freaks. It’s simply not true.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again … we didn’t have to create this website. We created it to give voice to those of like mind, because we knew that they/we had no other place that wasn’t as Guest says, tightly controlled in an RSE manner. Within certain (stated) limits, we’re happy to engage guests here.
Party on !
Since your post was polite and treated me with respect, I will answer your question. My last event as a student was in 1990, although I was permitted to sit in on portions of two beginning events about two years ago, for research I was doing. Since I left RSE, I have continued to live in the Yelm area...I've had many work relationships and friendships with current and former RSE students...I took a homeless, dying RSE student into my home when no fellow "masters" would take her in...I had hundreds of RSE students stay at my place over the years...I've helped friends get through the years of pain and self-hatred after leaving RSE, and all this is to say that I have been pretty aware of the changes at RSE.
Here you are again with your disruptive tactic’s that inevitably end up hijacking a thread..
While you are complaining to your friends and associates that EMF is anti new age, please let them know that..
EMF is not for people like Joe D.. who have been kicked out of their RSE elitist club…
Yet..Still cling to a belief that Ramtha is somehow real and a wonderful teacher……...
EMF is not a place for former students looking for a place to swap stories about their glorious days with the Ram…….
EMF is not for those that sit on the RSE fence while quietly feeding off its victims.
EMF is not the place to wrestle with pigs..
We only get filthy.. and the pigs love it!.
With your history, then you are aware of the fact that a student may seem to be a hardcore RSE devotee, and then that can change and they leave the teachings, quite disillusioned.
I have heard that the area churches have also helped out with former students, who have found as myself and others - there was no place to turn for support from people who understood. When I first heard that, I was skeptical because I thought, "Oh, great. The churches will suck them in while they're vulnerable." But, I have not heard of that happening. If it has, I'm unaware.
It's fairly common to be "excommunicated", if you will, when leaving the school. Students are fairly brainwashed that one has somehow manifested a "less than", or they'd still be current.
I'm glad I never moved there, myself. I considered it. NOW, I can see for my personal situation, how that would not have been a good choice. It sounds like you're able to live there, and have your niche in the community alright. Good for you.
Re: New Age controversy, keeling the EMF boat & spreading the word about EMF….
Seed thought greetings, this beginning of a harvest moon cycle. May we ‘harvest’ what we sow. Beautiful, insightful, compassionate responses this thread, lending one a hand over a personal ditch… It demonstrates that we CAN/DO make it beyond ‘comic book spirituality’ (nicely coined) so prevalent now.
The EMF site is great in that way - open to all with a thought or experience related to owning and/or dis-owning one’s own power. The moderators and the frequent posters ‘keel’ the website, keep the boat afloat… the ‘Ark’ enabling many to ‘graduate’ RSE supported by the many complex, often thought-provoking point-counterpoints. Exposure critical to understanding the often subtle changes re-wiring can create in personal belief paradigms.
Haven’t posted in awhile – but still enjoy reading them. I continue to tell others of the website: long term ex-RSErs as well as Euros. These are not ‘recommendations.’ I see myself as a guidepost: ‘hey – there is info here you can’t get anywhere else.’ Thank God for the day I say the ad in the local newspaper. Just 8 months old, EMF is a joyful and rambunctious toddler. In such a short time, a body of knowledge regarding Ramtha movement experiences & lore has been chronicled quite nicely. These chronicles’ are the true teaching - how one can lose themselves in an elaborately structured belief system designed to exact the opposite of what it professes. This is why Secret, New Age, et al is quite different from Harry Potter or S King. Try the WYSIWYG test - What You See Is What You Get. That is the core issue: the new age, RSE et al ultimate do not deliver. Emotional, spiritual and mental damage is an unfortunate side effect to be dealt with.
As far as EMF creating or being a ‘substantial’ anti-RSE movement’ … go Mike go: create that reality! I would say it is in the eye of the beholder. My life would have been different, had EMF existed as I was evaluating where my spiritual seeking dollars were going to go. But I would say EMF’s existence to date must be encouraging more ‘buyer beware’ behavior in the marketplace of mind-heart-soul. Perhaps some day soon, there will not be such a marketplace, be it New Age, RSE, Days to come, or yet to be invented Bull hokey.
SeeAllSides – thank you for the lovely post and affirmation of who-we-can-be-to-each-other on the Laura Mooney thread. It can change us, one day at a time: love, non-judgment, non-violence to self or others. The only real benchmark of our evolution as beings.
Just a couple of thoughts:
I have no idea as to how difficult it would be to activate the "point counter point" section of the site. I am totally unaware as to the amount of work involved in getting and keeping this site running though I am sure it is quite substancial. Thank you all for keeping it going.
I for one enjoy an occasional debate about ideas or theories but also understand how they can become inapropriate for some threads. I also think it can be a good opportunity for some in their recovery to have a place where they can verbalize the reasoning behind why they have come to the varying places that they have.
Having the "point counter point" could be a sort of spill over for conversations that may not have an appropriate place on sections of the rest of the board and also help to keep threads from being hijacked.It could also become a place where those who have differing ideas could be challanged to present a rational debate with regard to those ideas.
Eventually, this might lead to an excellent place where one can quickly review some of the many of the challanges towards this site as well as RSE.
i would be interested to hear what others may think about this concept.
I formerly posted as Onehand, until David was incredibly rude to me, numerous times. A few other posters even called him on that.
I challenge anyone who is free to think for themselves to do their own search under Onehandontheelephant and see for yourselves what my posts have said and whether I deserve to be labeled "disruptive" just for daring to question--politely and using their own words instead of putting words in their mouth--what some "authority" has said. I have spent hours and hours contributing solid information about the workings of RSE and related topics such as the many scams that have gone through the Yelm area. Look up my posts and see for yourself.
I have politely questioned "all New Age..." language, and Joe Sz even politely agreed with me that the use of the word "all" was not appropriate, yet David has spoken to me in a way that I don't consider playing nicely per site rules.
As for David's statement in his latest post:
"While you are complaining to your friends and associates that EMF is anti new age..."
David just put words in my mouth that I didn't say. Read my post above or any post I have ever left, and see for yourself: I have never said I complained to my friends that EMF is anti new age. Just the OPPOSITE. They have said that to me!
Case in point: Marguerite McMillan, who used to post and read here until a few months ago, and is one of those people still going through the pain of leaving the RSE cult. She is a gentle, sweet woman, and was an RSE student during the recent, overtly abusive years. If anyone cares about the truth, you can look up her posts and read for yourself what she had to say about what turned her off this site.
And I do find it interesting that the moderators "locked" a thread that a lot of people, including Joe Sz, were participating in, saying the reason they were locking the thread was that it had been up for a week--a whole week!--and that was long enough. Then they re-opened the SAME thread and have left it "sticky" at the top of the message board for MONTHS, even though it has not stimulated a discussion. Why did the moderators really lock the earlier thread? Was it because they didn't like the discussion a post of mine stimulated, even though Joe SZ posted that he agreed with my point, as I said above?
Check every Onehand post on this site: I have never supported Ramtha/RSE/JZ in any way. But having taken JZ and Ramtha off their pedestals 17 years ago, I'm not going to put any EMF moderator on a pedestal now.
If polite dissent is considered "disruptive" to this site, then why is this site called Enlighten Me Free? Where is the freedom?
You are at it again..
I will recommend to the EMF moderators that you be
blocked from any further posting on EMF.
Here’s another piece of advice from an old farmer…
“If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.
You are fully entitled to your opinion on how this site could be run and you seem to feel very strongly about it. How about creating your own forum and running it as you have described? You don't need a website, something can easily be set up on yahoo.com. The more the merrier...
Guest wrote, “And I do find it interesting that the moderators "locked" a thread that a lot of people, including Joe Sz, were participating in, saying the reason they were locking the thread was that it had been up for a week--a whole week!--and that was long enough. “
This is misleading exactly as stated. The thread was NOT locked due to it being up for a week. It was locked because you hijacked the thread in a totally different direction from what it was stated to be posted FOR. You focused on your personal critique of the article, and you stayed focused only on the INTENTIONAL CHOICE of wording by Janja Lilich, that “ALL” New Age groups….. Janja has a right to believe that her statement is accurate and true. We have the right to disagree with it. Despite numerous attempts, and numerous instances of other posters conceding that maybe she could have chosen a better word, you still did not graciously accept that effort on our part, and stay on the topic with what the new thread had been started for.
THAT is why the thread was locked.
We tried for a week, with no success. The thread was a waste from its initial intent. The new thread was opened, and to this day is a sticky. Hal has been personally spoken with, and there is, as has been posted, more information coming. As soon as it is ready, it will be shared. At that time, I’m confident it will spark further discussion. No, that’s not happening on what you may have predetermined as The Correct Timetable, but it is my thread, and it is my information based on a personal conversation with Hal, and it will be posted when I am ready. I’m not concerned about the date.
Guest wrote, “Then they re-opened the SAME thread and have left it "sticky" at the top of the message board for MONTHS, even though it has not stimulated a discussion. Why did the moderators really lock the earlier thread? Was it because they didn't like the discussion a post of mine stimulated, even though Joe SZ posted that he agreed with my point, as I said above?”
This was already answered above. The discussion was far off topic. Your dislike of Janja saying that ALL New Age groups…such and so…was just that; your personal opinion and disagreement with her opinion. That was not respecting, on your part, the stated intent of that thread. To this day, you are still complaining about it, now on this thread, but also to this day, you have yet to take responsibility for admitting, or even apologizing, for disrespecting the intent of the thread that I started. I put the effort into contacting Hal, getting permission for reprint of the article, and I posted it on the website under our Guest Speakers, with the link to the article. The intent was as stated, to discuss leaving a cult as it relates to critical thinking skills. Why didn’t you respect that ? You left that as one line in your entire post, at the beginning, after which you only ever focused on discussing your disagreement with her use of the word “all” in one sentence of an excellent, and helpful article.
“Check every Onehand post on this site: I have never supported Ramtha/RSE/JZ in any way. But having taken JZ and Ramtha off their pedestals 17 years ago, I'm not going to put any EMF moderator on a pedestal now.”
I don’t believe anyone has accused you of being an RSE supporter. Please don’t miss the point, which I’ve just stated very clearly. There is no requirement in posting here, that one has to put any EMF moderator on a pedestal.
”If polite dissent is considered "disruptive" to this site, then why is this site called Enlighten Me Free? Where is the freedom?”
IMO, it’s not about polite dissent. It’s about agreeing to disagree. You questioned why Graced’s post was ALLOWED. Further, the main page of the EMF website states that the site is for those who question the validity of not only RSE/Ramtha’s reality, but that of the New Age channeling movement. Graced’s post about The Secret was within those parameters.
I’ve already stated, it’s an error if you believe that all posters on this forum are anti-New Age. It’s simply not true. They are anti-charlatanism, and stripping people of their power. It is up to our personal discretion and discernment, to decide where the fraud is, or isn’t.
I’m curious to see if you’re going to address these issues. Maybe you should start your own website where you can control the content. New Age critics need not post.
You mentioned being an invited guest, for research purposes. Why ? You said you’re a book editor. Do you consider yourself pro-New Age ? Why are you upset when someone criticizes the New Age ? Do you really think you have an understanding of the pain that some people have suffered, being in – and getting out of – RSE ? having attended in 1990, when it was far more of a “love and light” type of atmosphere, is a far cry from people being sworn at, hit, drunk, being in orgies. Do you believe these people are telling the truth ? If so, how can you sustain a supportive attitude, or get upset when people are critical about the New Age movement ? At least by using critical thinking skills, people are exercising discernment.
So, let’s get on topic here – which is Graced’s post about Jean Houston’s OPINION that The Secret is not all it’s cracked up to be. WHY NOT ? Let’s talk about that.
asked me to explain why I thought The Secret was
“a prime example of selfishness camouflaged as Godliness…..
I would have thought it was self evident ! ……
So how about …
The promoters bill the DVD as a harbinger of a new era for humanity….
Revealing the ultimate wisdom of the ages.
“Cosmic Connie” really nailed it for me….
The Secret is, if nothing else, an extraordinarily successful example of “viral marketing,”
which is exactly what it sounds like: a highly contagious hustle.
The Wrath of the Secretrons.
Here are some more excerpts...
Rhonda Byrne, the main creator and producer of The Secret, was originally inspired by a 1910 book called The Science of Getting Rich, one of many books by success/motivational writer Wallace D. Wattles (1860-1911).
I think it worthy of note that Wattles, who died at a relatively young age, did not die rich
Wattles, who believed a fulfilling life was not possible without wealth, wrote that a “normal” person cannot help wanting to be rich, and that if you don’t become rich, “you are derelict in your duty to God,
According to Secret star Joe Vitale, who says he holds doctorates in both metaphysics and marketing,
Vitale also says he’s been a lifelong spiritual seeker, having explored a broad range of personal-growth programs, alternative “therapies,” and gurus over the years. For seven years he was a faithful follower of the late controversial cult leader Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh,These days he devotes a fair share of blog space to writing about his BMWs,his $150,000.00 Panoz Esperante vacations on Maui, and the multi-million dollar mansion in California that he’s thinking of buying.
This is all couched in motivational or spiritual life lessons,
SHAM: How The Self-Help Movement Made America Helpless,
wrote in his review of The Secret on Amazon: “One seldom encounters a better/worse example of the logical fallacy known as a posteriori reasoning. To take a successful person, look backwards at the attitudes they held on the way to becoming successful, then use those as proof-positive of WHY they’re successful, is as fundamentally silly as using the fact that Bill Gates and Ted Turner were college dropouts as justification for why you or your kids should drop out of college, too. (‘See? You’ll become a millionaire, just like they did!’).
” Yes, there is always a “next level,” and yet another “next level,” and there always will be until a new “ancient secret” comes along. For now there’s the book, a companion workbook, an audio CD featuring music from the DVD…and on and on.
I recommend reading the whole article….
"Thank you" everyone... that have contributed to Grace's thread..The Secret.
It' time to see how we can make the "point counter point" work on EMF..
JTR writes, "...those who have differing ideas could be challenged to present a rational debate."
This kind of conversation could prove very fruitful. As a majority of the contributors here have been mentally burned as the result of their naive participation at RSE the potential for some pretty good conversations does exist. We've already been ripped off by ideas based on nothing and have paid the price, whatever that was. Ideally we are not as likely to be fooled/hustled by empty space the next time around...
My observation is that the conversations are derailed by the covert RSE staff/supporters. They are pretty easy to pick out because their comments are disruptive or intrusive, which is their goal. One possibility (and I am not making a suggestion, I am articulating an idea) is to lock out their IP addresses which the moderators probably recognize by now. Although I don't mind engaging them it does not make for meaningful conversation. (And shouldn't they be doing their disciplines??? JUST KIDDING!!!)
A genuine conversation is dynamic and will take on a life of it's own when the participants are sincere and free of ulterior motive. Staying "on topic" can be a limitation. Some of the most intriguing threads on this forum ended up way off where they started which is part of the beauty of this venue. Anybody can show up at any time and say whatever they want. Anonymity along with an absence of structure seems to allow for great potential.
When we get to real conversation we will probably be addressing the reason all of us turned up at RSE - to gain insight into what this whole thing is all about.
Waking up every morning, going to sleep every night and no clue of where I came from or where I am going? Yup, some some real conversation would go down well right about now...
EWO said, "A genuine conversation is dynamic and will take on a life of it's own when the participants are sincere and free of ulterior motive. Staying "on topic" can be a limitation. Some of the most intriguing threads on this forum ended up way off where they started which is part of the beauty of this venue."
I agree with this view, 100%. Getting "off topic", is perhaps more of the natural ebb and flow of people's thoughts as they read through posts and follow up with what they have to offer. That has happened here (general "here")with some quality chat going on.
Hijacking a thread (ulterior motive involved) is another story, of course.
JTR, we have been talking about expanding more. Could be via the Point/Counterpoint, or another way. We have been talking about it.
As for banning IP addresses...we have had to resort to that. The particular poster who was using a gazillion different names, only wanting to cause trouble, was finally banned. Enough is enough.
As EWO said, it's one thing to engage a genuine, SINCERE debate on a topic, rather than fending off those that only want to prove they are right/you are wrong, based on their beliefs. That's a waste of everyone's time.
the sequel to THE SECRET will soon be available. You can view the trailer at http://www.passitontoday.com
Comte St. Germaine..
How does it go?
Fool me once..shame on them!
Fool me lot's.. OMG ,Im in a cult..
Thank you EWO, for your observation:
Staying "on topic" can be a limitation. Some of the most intriguing threads on this forum ended up way off where they started which is part of the beauty of this venue. Anybody can show up at any time and say whatever they want. Anonymity along with an absence of structure seems to allow for great potential.
Esther Hicks and the REAL SECRET behind
Esther Hicks/ Abraham should have taken copy right lessons from JZ!!!