Enlighten Me Free

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RSE and EMF. The love for groups

It's interesting that my post about Datre/Ramtha was deleted here. What are you afraid of?

Think about it, if you're not allowed to question neither EMF nor RSE, then what are these groups good for? Any of them?

After Ramtha had laid siege to Onai, what did he do towards his followers chanting his name? He threw rocks at them. Does that give you a clue?

They didn't want to leave, so he said stay, until you've learned your lesson.

What did you learn from discovering RSE? What did you learn from going into it? What did you learn from staying there? And maybe most importantly, what did you learn from leaving?

How can you ever be free, as free as Ramtha or even more if you have to stick to a group or focus on a leader that is not yourself?

The people at RSE, they are offering a way of life - do you acccept or do you decline? It is your choice, yours alone. Then how can you blame someone else?

Everyone will have to leave RSE sooner or later, in life or in death. Ramtha cannot save you and he never could. He's not there for you, he's there for him. He's not responsible for you. It doesn't matter what he have said, what matters is, what do you believe?

Do you accept what someone else is telling you, or do you figure it out on your own?

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

GO

"It's interesting that my post about Datre/Ramtha was deleted here. What are you afraid of?"

That is not a question; it is more of a statement.

"Think about it, if you're not allowed to question neither EMF nor RSE, then what are these groups good for? Any of them?"

Most of us have thought about it, and continue to. In thinking about it (your statement) it pre supposes something which is only partially based in fact.

It is a fact that one is not allowed nor has any venue or protocol for questioning in RSE.

It is not a fact that the same can be said for EMF. One simply needs to read through the threads to verify that. SO, your statement should really read
"....then what is RSE good for?


"After Ramtha had laid siege to Onai, what did he do towards his followers chanting his name? He threw rocks at them. Does that give you a clue?"

For me the clue is that you are seeking clues from a myth and not even a cultural one at that!

"They didn't want to leave, so he said stay, until you've learned your lesson."

I find that to be something like an abuser in a relationship might be found saying. He/she beats the person so that they would have the experience of learning their lesson and leave the relationship, so he/she was actually doing them a favor...total horse doo-doo.

"What did you learn from discovering RSE? What did you learn from going into it? What did you learn from staying there? And maybe most importantly, what did you learn from leaving?"

In the context of your previous D00-DOO statement those questions are not worthy of a response. But as far as the questions themselves, they all have been addressed articulately and eloquently all through this site.



"How can you ever be free, as free as Ramtha or even more if you have to stick to a group or focus on a leader that is not yourself?"

As free as r???? his/her freedom is born and perpetuated by JZ as well as his/her fanatical followers. They are the chains he/she are bound by. For me that is the opposite of freedom.

"The people at RSE, they are offering a way of life - do you acccept or do you decline?"

Let me get this straight, the people at RSE are offering a way of life (supposedly an unlimited one, one in which one becomes God)

"It is your choice, yours alone. Then how can you blame someone else?"

Sounds like in your learning and experience of being God and understanding of the RSE teachings you can only come up with 2 choices.....how unlimited...what a vast potential in the quantum field....more horse doody!

"Everyone will have to leave RSE sooner or later, in life or in death. Ramtha cannot save you and he never could. He's not there for you, he's there for him. He's not responsible for you."

Now there is some truth to that statement!

"It doesn't matter what he have said, what matters is, what do you believe?"

I am glad you put a question mark there. Beliefs do not trump facts. You can believe the earth is flat (some still do) fact is it is not. You can believe that r will take you into the heart of the sun and for some odd reason you would not be burned up (if it really would happen), the fact is you would be. And on and on.....

"Do you accept what someone else is telling you,"

Sometimes, with reason....



"or do you figure it out on your own?"

Well in this case it sure didn't take much figuring, did it????

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Thank you JTRL......

go alone stated....

"It's interesting that my post about Datre/Ramtha was deleted here. What are you afraid of?"

Fear had nothing to do with our deleting your post….
It was a matter of removing your “copy and paste” advertisement spin for your Datre “channel” group, you completely breezed past the stated purpose of the EMF forum.
No matter how wordy and wise your Datre messages may seem …
to post advice from so called space beings is either extremely naïve or incredibly insensitive and arrogant of you.
I visited your Datre website ..

http://www.mindspring.com/~datrenet/upcoming.html

Where did this quote come from?
The true Kingdom of God, the "Headquarters" of all that is, is a many-membered kingdom which physically exists in the highest, most distant Heaven – a non-temporal place (outside of time, and with eternal life). It is the only place from which the souls, life, and all cresting onginates. Being non-temporal, it was, is and forever will be – a concept that we, as temporal creatures, are not designed to comprehend.
Sound all very well and dandy but for the fact it came from The “Heavens Gate” suicide space cult.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(cult)

Let’s not have such an open mind that our brains fallout..

Chuckle

David.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

What does Datre have to do with RSE?
And where else is there documented evidence of Onai?

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

i dont wanna switch chanals i threw the tv out.i am not afraid some people like being hypnotiesd and brainwashed go alone there.been there grown out of there done it.never again.that schould summ it up.emf group thats intresting you see bevore emf there were no knowlegeable criticts.there were only some chritian fundamentalists which gave out real stupidity [like jz channals a horse.jz is the devil]here r some reale smart people which know the scam and try to lay it open.so you can make progress without spending thousends of dollars and lissening to endless teachings.if you like the lifestile which is offerd at rse thats again go alone.your buddys r on the ranch waiting for your money.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

A herd is a large group of animals. The term is usually applied to mammals, particularly ungulates. Other terms are used for similar phenomena in other types of animal. For example, a large group of birds is usually called a flock (this may also refer to certain mammals as well) and a large group of carnivores is usually called a pack. In addition, special collective nouns may be used for particular taxa: for example a flock of geese, if not in flight, is sometimes called a gaggle. However, in theoretical discussions in behavioural ecology, the generic term "herd" is used for all these kinds of assemblage. A herd may also refer to one that tends and cares for such groups (i.e. shepherds tend to sheep, and goatherds tend to goats, etc.).

When an association of animals (or, by extension, people) is described as a "herd", the implication is that the group tends to act together (for example, all moving in the same direction at a given time), but that this does not occur as a result of planning or co-ordination. Rather, each individual is choosing behaviour that corresponds to that of the majority of other members, possibly through imitation or possibly because all are responding to the same external circumstances. A herd can be contrasted with a co-ordinated group where individuals have distinct roles. Many human groupings, such as an army detachments or sports teams, show such co-ordination and differentiation of roles, but so do some animal groupings such as those of eusocial insects, which are co-ordinated through pheromones and other forms of animal communication. Conversely, some human groupings may behave more like herds.

The term herd is also applied metaphorically to human beings in social psychology, with the concept of herd behaviour. However both the term and concepts that underlie its use are controversial. The term is often used carelessly and applied to a range of situations that have little in common either with each other or with the behaviour of animals in herds. It will be clear from the discussion above that
the correct usage would be for situations where apparently organised behaviour results from a group of unco-ordinated people acting in imitation of one another.

The term has acquired a semi-technical usage in behavioral finance to describe the largest group of market investors or market speculators who tend to 'move with the market,' or 'follow the general market trend.' This is at least a plausible example of genuine herding, though according to some researchers it results from rational decisions through processes such as information cascade and rational expectations. Other researchers, however, ascribe it to non-rational process such as mimicry, fear and greed contagion. "Contrarians" or contrarian investors are those who deliberately choose to invest or speculate counter to the "herd".

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Ok, you like to break things into little pieces, it's very easy to lose track of the whole picture that way. Ok I can do that once, but not more, because it will never end.

"It's interesting that my post about Datre/Ramtha was deleted here. What are you afraid of?"
That is not a question; it is more of a statement.

- It can be both. But a question is a question regardless. What are you afraid of, what scares you so much having a post that is not even telling you what to do?

"Think about it, if you're not allowed to question neither EMF nor RSE, then what are these groups good for? Any of them?"
Most of us have thought about it, and continue to. In thinking about it (your statement) it pre supposes something which is only partially based in fact.
It is a fact that one is not allowed nor has any venue or protocol for questioning in RSE.It is not a fact that the same can be said for EMF. One simply needs to read through the threads to verify that. SO, your statement should really read "....then what is RSE good for?

- And it is a fact that my post was deleted. Now I don't care about it, it's your option. But if you cannot have freedom of information, how will you ever be able to make a solid choice? True or not, it's still info about what someone is claiming.

"After Ramtha had laid siege to Onai, what did he do towards his followers chanting his name? He threw rocks at them. Does that give you a clue?"
For me the clue is that you are seeking clues from a myth and not even a cultural one at that!

- And yet people find moral and examples to be followed in fairytales. It doesn't matter if that story is true or not. Ramtha told it to you. It should give you a clue when he says "follow man and you will fail", and then says "I will save you". See the contradiction there? Cause even if Ram is a god, he said you are too. That contradiction was on PURPOSE.

"They didn't want to leave, so he said stay, until you've learned your lesson."
I find that to be something like an abuser in a relationship might be found saying. He/she beats the person so that they would have the experience of learning their lesson and leave the relationship, so he/she was actually doing them a favor...total horse doo-doo.

- So how come women that gain the strength to go out of an abusive relationship feel stronger? They have learned something, about other people, about themselves, about life. If you started following me around, I would let you, then I would turn around and punch you in the face. And then later on you would thank me for it. You mentioned horse... the animals do the same thing. The help their children for awhile, but when the time is right, they turn around and snerr at them. Time to find your own path in life.

"What did you learn from discovering RSE? What did you learn from going into it? What did you learn from staying there? And maybe most importantly, what did you learn from leaving?"
In the context of your previous D00-DOO statement those questions are not worthy of a response. But as far as the questions themselves, they all have been addressed articulately and eloquently all through this site.

- I've already answered that one. So I will not respond you either.

"How can you ever be free, as free as Ramtha or even more if you have to stick to a group or focus on a leader that is not yourself?"
As free as r???? his/her freedom is born and perpetuated by JZ as well as his/her fanatical followers. They are the chains he/she are bound by. For me that is the opposite of freedom.

- And what does that have to do with you? What the heck does that have to do with anything? It's only because you believe that Ram still got some influence on you. Start believing in yourself. To do that you cannot follow a leader, in any way shape or form. "Follow" YOU.

"It is your choice, yours alone. Then how can you blame someone else?"
Sounds like in your learning and experience of being God and understanding of the RSE teachings you can only come up with 2 choices.....how unlimited...what a vast potential in the quantum field....more horse doody!

- RSE or not, Are you the one the makes the choice? Does someone else do it for you? Who makes the choices in your life?... Then you decide how many choices there are to be.

"It doesn't matter what he have said, what matters is, what do you believe?"
I am glad you put a question mark there. Beliefs do not trump facts. You can believe the earth is flat (some still do) fact is it is not. You can believe that r will take you into the heart of the sun and for some odd reason you would not be burned up (if it really would happen), the fact is you would be. And on and on.....

- And yet you claim beliefs to be facts. Have you ever seen the world that you are living on as a globe? Have you ever been to the sun? It is what YOU believe. But where did you get that belief FROM? THAT is the point. Did someone tell you, and in your innocence you believed, or did you go figure out yourself? Then what is truth. You decide.

"or do you figure it out on your own?"
Well in this case it sure didn't take much figuring, did it????

- That is individual, like everything else. Alot of people will never join RSE, no matter how aware they are. They know what Ramtha is talking about and yet: "what do I need that for? I know who I am, I know where I wanna go, I DON'T need anyone to tell me." So why go there? Then there is others who want the experience.

Every single one reading these posts will see something different, something you love, something you hate, fear, can't be bothered with or couldn't care less about, something that will change you view on your world. To each their own, because that is individuality. Break it down, twist it if you like, but make sure you don't fool yourself. Be aware of what you are doing. Then let the others do their thing, and you go do yours.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

As for comparing Datre with the nutty suicide cult of Heavens gate...

lol.

I was not advertising for Datre, I'm not their spokesperson, I represent me. Period. I posted a quote of what they had stated, without claiming that this is the ultimate truth or not. It was relative to Ramtha, since they CLAIM that he is in their group of individuals. I was posting a different point of view, it is up to each and everyone if you want to take it as advice or not.

If you had read some of the Datre material, you would have seen that Datre tries to move away from the God-concept, and avoid using the word kingdom of the realms they describe.
They also state that they themselves make contradictions, and they make no effort in hiding it, since it is on purpose. Purpose being to make you think on your own. Not just reading the stuff and know it by heart without understanding one iota. It is presenting things in different angles, so that you will go to your SELF and not anyone else, like say Datre. That is what they say.

As for suicide, they don't condemn it of course, because they don't condemn ANYTHING.
But if you came to this place to experience, live and learn, then what is suicide gonna do you any good?
So that doesn't make sense, you might as well stay till you figure things out.

Other then that Datre does not offer a cult, because it is not an organisation. There are no member fee's because there are no members. For years they had the material online for free, it's only in the recent years they have been selling the books, for modest prices if I may say so. Most people can afford a book for 7$. I even asked John S. how he felt about giving the books away for free to my friends, he said "of course".

The reason I posted Datre statements was becase they had stuff about Ramtha, from a different point of view. Not to promote Datre, most people won't go there anyway, and it doesn't matter. I haven't been reading Datre for a long time myself.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Go Alone.

Well said about Ramtha being chained by his follower's.

In fact Ramtha IS limited in this realm, by the understanding of his followers and that is why the school has been a flop for the most part.

The way I see things is that if your still hanging around RSE then you are stifling growth everywhere by admitting the need for a mediator to be a spokesperson for your God.

Its sort of like having a Tai Chi teacher demonstrate flawless movements to the students but the teacher can't do anymore than schedule classes and handle the linguistics explaining the movements. One cheats oneself out of the magnificent.

The movements are filed to the thinking brain but the Chi Gung goes untapped. Isn't that wright MW?

Nothing will change with this scenario except for more to become teachers than doers because teachers are plenty at hand on stage but the doers have already left.

What needs to happen for dynamic realism to occur is for hordes to stampede out of RSE, starting with staff and longtime followers.

Only then will realization be realized in and as individuals instead of part of a fanatical group.

Those are the laws that Ramtha agreeded to bide by when he agreed to come down here, and because of that no one else wanted to come back.

Well almost no one else.








Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Wolfman said, "What needs to happen for dynamic realism to occur is for hordes to stampede out of RSE, starting with staff and longtime followers."

Yes ! What if there was a march AND NOBODY CAME ?

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

You Guys seem like the group for ex lover stalkers anonymous. You have this ex lover and you can't quite get over her and so you stalk her every move, you make stuff up about what she must be doing based on rumors that you heard from someone? even to the extent of gossiping about what her Son is doing in his private life. WOW that is sad........Or recalculating beautiful memories of an experience that no longer fit the grief and pain of loss you feel now. justifying the ex in your mind as the demon who did this all to you.



What would a counselor tell you to do to move on from an ex lover? Talk about them endlessly, form a group to share stories about their shortcomings, find every bad experience and dissect it with the righteous attitude that you have no responsibility for the relationship. Everything was the others fault. Monitor their e-mail, phone calls their schedule their whereabouts, everything they do do and then form an opinion about it and gossip to others about your findings and your conclusions based on your jaded interpretation? Is that what a counselor would advise you in getting over a relationship? I didn't think so.

That is what i see in this forum.

One (McCarthy) who will keep you endlessly in this conversation so he can feed off the energy and get agreement for his own suffering every day, from YOU if you play his game. And two (Joe Szimhart)who will charge you thousands of dollars and years of work for reprogramming you with HIS agenda to replace the programming that you are complaining cost you thousands of dollars and years of work .

Hmmmm, a guy who makes his living praying on people who are vulnerable to suggestion and suggesting to them that he has something they need......for a price.

Hmmmmmmm


Go Joe

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

''''You Guys seem like the group for ex lover stalkers anonymous. You have this ex lover and you can't quite get over her and so you stalk her every move, you make stuff up about what she must be doing based on rumors that you heard from someone? even to the extent of gossiping about what her Son is doing in his private life. WOW that is sad........Or recalculating beautiful memories of an experience that no longer fit the grief and pain of loss you feel now. justifying the ex in your mind as the demon who did this all to you.''''

Yawn.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Acorn…

There was a time when I also believed in Judith’s fantasy world…
Perhaps my response to EMF would have been much like your own..only to see bitter and suffering victims..
It all goes with the RSE territory… a defensive mechanism to avoid the terrible reckoning that we have been spiritual hijacked….
For many it seems safer to stay within the RSE fold,
Especially.. if there has been many years entrusted into "Ramtha's" hands...

You do not know me personally, and obviously.. neither do you know Joe.
I welcome you to contact me, LARSE@fairpoint.net
We both live in the Yelm area.. do we not?
Perhaps…
We will both gain a kinder and wiser perspective of what is so vitally important to both our lives.

Either way…
I hope you have more to share than throwing darts.


David.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Hi Acorn,

We HAVE gotten over the “ex lover” as you call it. We gave up the one addiction that many (I don’t speak for all) current students can’t fathom getting over; the teacher and the teacher’s lack of Godlike actions and deeds. Also, we no longer put the teacher as higher than us, outside of us. We have come to know otherwise in our relationship with God.

What you call stalking, or needing to talk to a counselor, or talking endlessly about RSE, dissecting with a righteous attitude, etc is only that in your view. The purpose of this website, and in particular this message forum, is to allow those who have not been allowed, to speak on their own behalf, about their experiences at RSE. I suppose it’s natural that those currently addicted to RSE (my opinion), are not going to see it that way. But, don’t the teachings speak to ALLOWING ? That also means WE can have our “reality”, yes ? Thank you.

This message forum allows people to gain what they don’t get from RSE; informed consent. They are hit with what some of us call a “gag order” upon entrance to the school. They are not told that as the teachings “progress”, they get more and more restrictive, filled with the limiting language of RSE-speak. They don’t realize that they will be encouraged, however subtly, or overtly, to “walk this alone journey”, and if loved ones are holding them back in their minds (translates to not agreeing with the teachings), then they are to leave them. More and more, progressively, the separation from the natural world happens to a degree that is more than what it was before RSE. Some students get to a point where they only interact with other current students and if a student leaves the school, they are shunned. That flies in the face of living from the fourth seal and acting like they are all family in RSE. It is highly superficial. It’s actually quite competitive as the students struggle to attain Godhood-in-the-flesh; a carrot that dangles and they cannot reach. The CEO hasn’t reached it.

So, yes, this forum cites the information that comes along to us. If a student, of any level in the school, is so firm in their convictions about the teachings, this website will not shake their faith, so to speak. If it brings them to anger, etc., then if they believe the teachings, they should be “allowing us our truth”, and looking at THEMSELVES for their emotional reaction, eh ?

Leaving a cult does produce TEMPORARY feelings of pain and loss.

Everyone is different (imagine that) in how they choose to live their lives after a group like RSE. Some simply fade away, for various reasons. Some decide that it would be morally corrupt to remain silent, especially when folks enter RSE without informed consent about the cult-like tactics that are used there. I suggest you educate yourself about the workings along that line.

We have no responsibility for the relationship ? Oh, yes we do. So does RSE. We left. RSE continues with its coercive tactics.

Joe Szimhart, looking to get rich off the backs of ex-cult members ? HARDLY ! You speak of gossip ? Your comment shows only ignorance, if not anger/hostility toward Joe. The FACTS are that a number of ex-cult members educate themselves and realize just how systematic their experience was. Educating others is a healthy, pro-active way to deal with After The Cult. I don’t know Joe real well, but I do know he wants to help people, and it’s NOT based on fleecing them for money. That sounds more like the experience I’ve had at RSE. If you don’t pay, you don’t attend. Period. Joe has helped folks at his own expense. THAT is sincere. (Sorry, Joe – I know you are a big boy and can speak for yourself)

PrEying on people who are vulnerable to suggestion ? Joe ? Hardly. That’s part of the psychological hook of getting into a cult, though. Almost all of us can be vulnerable to suggestion; especially when they are uneducated about the tactics being used.

As for David, you obviously don’t know him well.

The jaded interpretation is yours, Acorn. You may have it, too. It’s all a matter of perspective. My experienced opinion is that RSE is a cult. It offers promises that it does not deliver on, and hasn’t, in 30 years. Then, the teacher blames the students. Typical cult tactics. Get educated, Acorn. And I mean that sincerely. There are books listed on this website for you to start reading about groups like RSE. You’re likely to see yourself. If you’re lucky. My opinion: you don’t need a priest to put before God and you, in confession, nor do you need a Ramtha-hierophant put before God and you, in the arena. There is a direct line, and it’s free, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

David and Watcha have spoken far more eloquently than I so I'll only briefly comment. Acorn, you said:"ex lover stalkers anonymous". Your description would be more accurately stated as ex rape victims go public re charming serial rapist.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

How much responsibility do you bear for the ill uses others might make of your ideas?

Almost as much as the responsibility you bear if you fail to share your ideas, when they might have made a difference in the world.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

"There was a time when I also believed in Judith’s fantasy world…
Perhaps my response to EMF would have been much like your own..only to see bitter and suffering victims..
It all goes with the RSE territory… a defensive mechanism to avoid the terrible reckoning that we have been spiritual hijacked….
For many it seems safer to stay within the RSE fold,
Especially.. if there has been many years entrusted into "Ramtha's" hands..."

Everything you just said is exactly what someone would say who was in a disfunctional or abusive relationship, I do not argue with that. I was merely pointing out that no counselor worth his salt would advise his grieving client to follow the ex around monitoring their every move to continually justify the break up. That doesn't make any sense.
The observation came after reading a large portion of this message board. There is a theme that seems unhealthy to actual recovery.


"You do not know me personally, and obviously.. neither do you know Joe."

I have also looked at many other forums that discuss RSE and that is the same thing that supporters say about JZ and Ramtha.

My conclusions about Joe are based on looking at the facts of his participation. He is like an ambulance chasing, accident/injury trial lawyer. How many of you have paid him or someone else money to help you reprogram yourself and get well?



I welcome you to contact me, LARSE@fairpoint.net
We both live in the Yelm area.. do we not?


No, I do not live in yelm but I do live in western Washington.


"I hope you have more to share than throwing darts."

It is not my intention to throw darts at anyone. I was just noticing that it seems like you all are still participating in what you are trying to get away from. And no I am not angry or hostile at Joe as whatchamacalit suggested. I just thought it was hilarious irony. mabey I used the wrong simile!

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Acorn said, "I was merely pointing out that no counselor worth his salt would advise his grieving client to follow the ex around monitoring their every move to continually justify the break up. That doesn't make any sense."

You're right. Joe hasn't ADVISED people here to "monitor [RSE's] every move to continually justify the break up."

Where did that assumption come from ?

From what I've seen, Joe respects people's space, for wherever they are at. People leaving RSE are not all in the same frame of mind. Some approach recovery from a cult in different ways. It's personal.

I never felt the need for any service that offers, myself. I worked through, and resolved a lot of my "stuff" before I physically left RSE. After I left, the worst of the emotional stuff lasted 4 - 6 months. But, I educated myself, diligently, about cults. WOW. What I learned !!! That's why, for myself, I ENJOY this forum. We don't have to "monitor" RSE's goings on. We just provide the forum, and plenty of folks who post, or who send material, from behind the scenes, have a venue in which they can share it. That's wonderful. All of that effort is really a minor part of my life. I'm sure others would agree.

As for Joe, others have CHOSEN to engage him. He didn't chase them. Really Acorn, where did you get that false assumption from ?

Others have needed to get counseling, and they have not gone to Joe, but elsewhere. The fact is, for those who need therapy after leaving a cult, there are few counselors available, that have experience with such matters. But, they ARE out there. Joe is one of a number.

I assure you, your concerns about Joe chasing down business here, aren't founded. At least, not on this forum. Plenty of folks have emailed him to chat, as a result of this forum. I've never heard that he's sent anyone a bill for an email response !

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Acorn - why/how did you come to this message board? - I'm just curious --- here's where just typed words can be misleading -- don't assume any attitude or agenda other than the simple question.
PS Joe was INVITED to the first Life After RSE gathering - he came essentially for free - airfare plus whatever donations. (Have you watched the LARSE videos on google?) He has, as Whatcha stated, responded to people via email, for free. He has a full time job at a psychiatric hospital, and a family he loves.
Raise your hands everybody who've had a free conversation with Ramtha or Judy willing to answer, in depth, any question you may have.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

How do Acorn,
I am interested in your comment, "I have also looked at many other forums that discuss RSE..."
I would like to take a look myself. What other forums are you referring to? Thanks, Acorn.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

i looked around too for material on jz knight and ramthas school of brainwash.i am not a wizz on my computer so show me any serious discussion forum.i found some forums were scoolstaff made videoreviews to the bleep like steve kline.so there are after 3 negative reviews from which at least one points out that the movie is a recruting show one from a jz follower and employe.furthermore i saw a negative youtubecoment disapearing.why do you write about jz knights fear of somebody takes a marketshare from her.did she tell you to research how much money flows on this webside?what discusted me most from the beginning in school was the programing that you see people who leave in a negative way[they dont wanna do the work,they r not ready for evolution,they r misserable victims]dont blow in this horn here.and your comparison with ex lover is just too nice.for me the comparison of a rapist and criminal towards his victims is much closer.nobody schould just walk away and be quiet.many germans did this.it dosent make the world a better place.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Acorn,
There you go again … trying to discredit Joe with the typical disinformation tactics
we have come to expect from RSE employees.

Are you a supporter/ and or.. current member of RSE?
I did not say you lived in Yelm, Your EMF information shows you are posting from the Yelm area..?

I totally respect your need for privacy but your continuing false assumptions
about Joe tantamount to personal attacks.. This nonsense could easily been avoided if you were open to a direct conversation.
You have disabled your EMF email contact acorn3173@yahoo.com
Do you not wish any dialogue outside of the EMF forum?
I am interested to read your response to the questions asked by the other posters…
I am sure you would agree that assumptions are a dim substitute to truth...

David

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

Acorn;
you have TOTALLY made assumptions on Joe, David, and many posters.
I know Joe personally, and David.
Maybe meeting them in person might be a venue for more allowance on your part.
I can guarentee Joe does not make the gazillions that JZ does for the same service. (That is why he has a J O B.)
And in NO WAY, is he asking anybody to convert to Catholocism.
Actually, maybe Google something about
Sketicism. It IS a viable alternative to religion as a whole.
And the way you speak down to people speaks volumes about you.
Unless you have had personal experience with these people, it might behoove you to do some research and not look like a
RSE a$$.

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

and as far as the announcement of what Brandy is doing, it was posted on an RSE frigging e-mail, which many of us still are on the list for some odd reason.
It is just sharing information.
If I wanted to stalk JZ or Steve Handlin,
I would still be on their porchsteps with
many a scare tactic.
Why waste the energy?
in fact, the Thurston County Sheriff's department is handling things just
f-i-n-e........

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

I have not been keeping up with emf lately...but this came to my attention:

acorn stated: "My conclusions about Joe are based on looking at the facts of his participation. He is like an ambulance chasing, accident/injury trial lawyer. How many of you have paid him or someone else money to help you reprogram yourself and get well?"

That is a squirrely statement. Be careful...squirrels bury acorns and eat them later!

I want to thank all of you above that said something in my behalf.

I understand acorn's perpective because I've been hearing it since I've been identified as a "deprogrammer" in 1986 from cult mamagers and naive devotees. One cult rep from CUT came up to me at a cult awareness conference and accused me of "bottom feeding"----looking for clients.

I take only a few intervention cases a year since 1998 when we returned from China with our youngest (now 10). Work is unsteady at best as an exit counselor, we were running without insurance for 12 years [could not afford it], I survived two court cases (not guilty) against me in the early 90s. There is no protection for exit counelors, no way to get a license or backing from a group. You essentially fly by the seat of your pants, you are responsible for every bit of self-education and business decision. There are only a handful left that work at exit counseling fulltime in America. If it were that easy to make big bucks more people would be competing in the business. It is primarily a job for single folks that can live lean.

My reputation and self-esteem does not come from chasing acorns. My clients know me. Of course not every case has a happy result, but, for example, I worked 5 cases in the last 15 months. 4 worked out well. To the person the clients told me I do not charge enough for what I do--these people experienced what I do. Two of them sent me totally unexpected bonus checks for Christmas last year.
Joe

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

"acorn stated: "My conclusions about Joe are based on looking at the facts of his participation"

I want to ask you, Acorn, do you have ANY first hand ( read that again-FIRST HAND)
experience with Joe?
Then, ( I know from your statement , the answer is NO), you have no clue.
So...uh....just stop right there with your
ignorance and garner some EXPERIENCE.
until then, you have no room to talk
THE END

Re: RSE and EMF. The love for groups

lol, go alone, this post is exactly like one I made on cosmicfool.com - a bunch of fallouts from the old Lazarus channeler guy.

Information comes in many different forms and plays to different people in different ways.

Datre is not out having big mass worship sessions and all there material was free for years. They promote self-knowing and thinking and they dont claim to be space beings....