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I have a friend who is in major overwhelm regarding her ramster life. I met her as a partner at school, and as synchronicity of Life often creates, we have had common jobs, upbringing, views, etc. She is also a reflection of choices I did not make…brilliance gone eccentric, and now, I have real concern for her and want to speak of what I now know to be true.
The root cause of her discomfort is not the stress of preparing for the days to come, or taking care of her aging parents, her children, her ‘down on their luck’ friends, but indeed, the full, unrelenting angst of having a point of reference outside of her Self. Almost every other sentence begins with “Well Ramtha says xxx…” Because of the circular errors in the program due to ‘teachings’, there is not enough Random Access Memory (RAM) to solve the unsolvable problem. Her program will eventually lock up – and shut down. I would like to offer her another possible outcome. If I can make a difference, now is the time. She has a beautiful heart - generous and trusting to a fault. She will be devastated when ‘awakening’ occurs. Currently fatigue, confusion, lowering of self esteem (a talented woman) are setting in, with initial symptoms of depression, resignation and helplessness, more each time I see/talk to her. Logic is now terribly flawed, with irrational actions. Financial tail-spin is nearing, not yet irreversible.
QUESTION: How do I approach the subject of ‘root cause’? Point out the house of cards is built on invalid concepts? From what I have learned from this message board, a trigger, the last straw which causes cessation of the suspension of disbelief. But, it comes from inside, each person’s Higher Self, leading to ‘enough is enough’ or I can’t take this anymore. Graduation is a very personal matter. As it must be – it involves betrayal, denial, how could this happen to me, anger, fear, reprisal from others, and .personal endangerment if severe.
This question is the same re: how to warn the deluge of European innocents that are about to take a large leap of faith: considering a move to Yelm, no matter how financially or emotionally devastating. In June, many people will arrive early for Assay, seeking answers to questions, reality-checking, as they truly walk a tightrope that they don’t know it goes or ends up.
A mystic once said – I cannot tell people the Truth – it would only raise their defences. If I told the truth, they would reel from it. I plant seeds for the future of Truth.
How do I best plant seeds of awareness?
I was humbled this morning – thinking/feeling I was attempting to build bridges and express concern, I ended up being interfering and insulting. Although the specifics are not related to participation in Judy’s place, there is a lesson for me in this humbling and painful experience that reinforces and pushes me to articulate my response to Agape and Cherry Blossom. Based on my experience, the best we can do for those we love is love them – and trust that That Which is at their heart essence will prevail – believe in their heart, their strength, their Soul Center. In my life, there were 3 people who loved me through a decade of my involvement/hookedness to Judy’s Ramtha --- I am certain that their patient love facilitated my ultimate awakening/”graduation”. At the same time, no one I knew who’d left attempted to persuade me of anything – until I asked. The very fact that a person hooked into Judy’s reality has relationships of any kind with other realities is significant and ultimately, I believe, helpful in the journey out of delusionland.
I will quickly add that I had left Judy’s world prior to wine ceremonies, prozac and poisonous sea water. These kinds of toxic activities add another ingredient to our response to involved loved ones – certainly if we see life threatening activities/behaviors we may have to take greater risk in speaking out. It is painful to watch those we love lost in a wine bottle, lose home and property, jobs, friends… The best we can do is consistently love, and ‘listen’ carefully for whatever action we can take.
This forum is one way we have of at least providing information and opportunity for perspective’s other than Judy’s.
I was humbled today doing what I thought was going to be helpful – and wasn’t. I share my learning with you, and will be more mindful of holding my tongue while opening my heart.
Concerning your friend, "Beautiful Heart" you describe her condition as one of fatigue, confusion, lowering of self esteem, depression, resignation and helplessness.
Is there something else going on in her life which would be the cause of this? Because otherwise it sounds like the egg is beginning to crack.
What does she think your beliefs are? If she thinks you are a believer than that is a potential place to start. Voice your own doubts and just let it unfold.
Hurts like hell but there is no way around it. I like what Winston Churchill said, "If you're going through hell, keep going."
personally, I think people are close to cracking the egg...when they are not even aware of it...but they have some "time off" or some other relationships, OUTSIDE the school, that develop; then they start to think....hmmmm....
AGAPE asked: "How do I best plant seeds of awareness?"
Concerned persons related to members of elitist cults almost always ask this question. I tell them to recall the Gospel parable that says some seeds fall on "rocky ground" and never germinate. So do not just drop bombs of information. For example, many of my clients have tried to give or sent Steve Hassan's book then titled "Combatting Cult Mind Control" to their friend or relative in a cult. They might just as well have called them what Don Imus called the women of Rutgers basketball. That book works well for people just out of a group or not out but already privately disgusted with the group and leader.
Find a fertile spot in the person first, or "cultivate" one with kindness and a shared interest in a field of inquiry.
Connections need to be specific and real to the person. Know what you are talking about but do not speak like a knowitall--do the research and defer to experts (name books). Critical seeds need fertile soil or they just lay dormant for years and blow away in the winds of devotion.
Also, there is the problem of conflict of roles. Most expert counselors in any field (medical, legal, psychological) will not counsel loved ones due to role confusion. Cult members tend to respect ex-members or specialists as "experts" more than a parent or a spouse even if that person is saying the same thing as the expert.
These are merely general observations.
Hope this helps a little---there is no one way to approach anyone in a cult but something deep inside the person has to be ready to "hear" before advice from anyone will work.
thank you Joe, your response is helpful, and you said it in words I can remember, with unconditional love. No, these are not relatives - that IS a different dynamic.
There are so many new students (+/- 2-3 years) who are now having such a hard time here in Lack-land. The ones I know WERE accomplished, successful before they got here, and that is my connection, as I also seem to be aware of those in my cohort, and know when they are having an esp hard time, and I seem to call, have work for them, etc. temporarily addressing their need, restoring their hope, and faith in themselves. Even when THEY say, THEY manifested MY kindness...!! in any event, I am glad to help, be of service. It has always been my way.
But to see them shine less brightly, see the lines of worry, as their lives begin to collapse like Dominos, and no fruit is borne from the HOURS of disciplines. The final face slap I have heard repeatedly is now being here but unable to afford to go to the events...
But failure, disappointment do go into blaming (themselves mostly, but occasionally Big R..) But under the current Belief Structure, resistance is futile, 'breaking away' not acceptable (e.g., alleged to have FAILing at the Great Work). SO, degeneration of wisdom comes first, then wealth, then health. And against all reason, is tolerated.
My OTHER question: In the case of European students who I have met casually, during sweet moments of personal sharing, would an email message saying 'you might want to go to this site (emf) as a local resource , aka masters connection...'..'I know Mike Wright goes there every day to see what is new..' make a difference? I would imagine it would be a seed causing a wild fire of gossip among euros. They love talking...alot. As well as having endless discussions, philosphical and otherwise. I find many Europeans appreciative of facts, esp. about what it is like to live here, like it is some kind of Utopian community. I guess that is a pull for people in a technological age, to find their tribe..
thank you again - ALL - for the energy, focus, time, emotion in all forms that you give in this moment to read my post. it is healing the world.
Agape & Aussiegirl,
If you want to post the link to the EMF site at Master's Connection, you sure can do so. But, they will likely pull the post in very short order.
That's not a criticism, either. I respect their right to run their website the way they want to, and it's for "masters". Obviously, current or pro-RSE students only need post.
Most of my family was introduced to "the teachings" via me. They all rejected most of it. They tolerated my attending there, out of respect for my right to make my own spiritual choices. They accepted the eastern thought, but as we know, that has nothing to do with RSE, as it certainly pre-dated anything Judith ever taught as herself or presenting as "Ramtha".
Over the years, they listened to my excited chatter about the "good" times, and they planted seeds of awareness when I griped about the bullxxxx I witnessed there, directly or indirectly. I was always disgusted by the gossip that went on in the school and out in the community. Everyone knew everyone's business, for the most part. All sorts of rumors (some proved true; some not), were always flying around. There was SO much talk about "Did you hear that Ram said...."
All of the "days to come" (doom and gloom) teachings were offensive to me, and also seemed like a discrepancy to some powerful, all knowing being(s) (Ram is not alone!), coming to help us out of the ditch if the Earth is going to hell in a handbasket.
Anyway, all of those things that my family said, at times annoyed the heck out of me, because of course, I thought they didn't "get it". But, despite my silence (and theirs), once we'd speak our viewpoints, neither "side" ever forgot.
When the time came (after 17 years...blech), for ME to have seen/heard enough ON MY OWN, I then pieced together all of their observations, into a bigger puzzle that helped push me right out the RSE door....EXIT. Stage left.
I really think that having a current student, who is entrenched in the RSE "philosophy", in your life, is something you have to either accept or reject, based on your willingness. The day may well come when any seeds you planted will take root, or not. At some point, it is about "relationship" and what that means to you. My husband could have walked out on me, or given me an ultimatum, but he didn't. If he had, I probably would have left him, seeing him as forcing my hand. He patiently waited, and when ... I ... started griping a LOT about "this and that" going on at RSE, he said to me, "I think it's time for you to LEAVE THERE now. I have supported your decision to go, although I never liked it, but these things you be a clear sign to you that it's all going down the tubes."
He never made me "wrong", to this day. Never started on me about the huge amounts of money I spent, traveling long distances to attend many events. Of course, it was his choice to hang in there, and he ran the risk that it would not work out that we'd remain intact as a family. But, he was correct in our instance.
I can tell from your posts that you love your partner and want the best for you both. I wish you that outcome, hopefully together. But for the time from now until then, you are really walking on eggshells.
One thing my family did is ask me questions without giving me answers. They planted seeds of doubt in me, by just asking what later became more obvious to me about the discrepancies. Unfortunately, as of the last few years especially, discrepancies are rationalized away as "changing timelines".
my partner is much of the same vein
Never questioned my reasoning.
Never gave me an ultimatum.
She involved me into life.
One of connecting and experiencing
with all things.
I will be forever grateful for her total allowance.
and silly me..I thought I knew what that was via "Ramtha"
What a joke.
They are so narcissitic in the school, they do not know allowance of other people's
I feel that it is "safe" to present information without pointing a finger directly at RSE/Ramtha.
For example, the Derren Brown videos are universally fascinating and can appeal to anyone.
On this website numerous references are made to books which bear a remarkable similiarity to "Ramtha" teachings. If someone had pointed them out to me, I would have been interested in looking at these books when I was a current student.
If someone not attending RSE had approached me and said, "I was looking at a website where former RSE students post. Someone made a reference to blue bodies and I don't know what that means. Can you explain it to me?" I would have been happy to talk and answer their questions.
These are areas where there is some room for movement.
If you want to refer someone in RSE or any closed system of devotion to critical information try to do two things:
1. Ask their permission if you can share a book title, document, or website url with them. Let them know you want their opinion. Tell them the information may be critical. Do not merely "drop" it on them.
2. If they say yes, offer small significant doses and tell them there is more when and if they are ready. Discuss each thing, get their opinion of it.
It is important to sustain a dialog. Back off if anything deeply upsets the person. Try again later.
EWO said, "For example, the Derren Brown videos are universally fascinating and can appeal to anyone."
You want to hear something funny ? A CURRENT STUDENT was sending the Derren Brown information around to other current students. Who knows how many times that email was passed along, but it made me laugh to think of how close they are, when stating that it's amazing that our thoughts may not be our own !!!!
I don't mean "funny" in a mean way...just a sympathetic recognition of how close to the "egg cracking" one can be and yet still not be quite ready to see it.
as long as we are planting any seeds, might as well be of use esp Derren Brown.
THAT and in of itself tells me , people are having a few....hmmm how shall I word this.....discrepencies go through their mind.
My partner thinks the Derren Brown tapes are interesting and has watched them with me and independently of me when I told him about them. But he says it could never happen to him, its all just hypnosis and he couldn't be subject to it. Has it planted a seed, I guess only time can tell.
A metaphor which may be helpful is that of a puzzle. Have you ever left the pieces of a puzzle out on a table and put it together over time?
Imagine that you and the "programmed person" share a space together and in that space is a table with all of the pieces of a puzzle scattered, not yet in a recognizable pattern (picture.) You've seen the cover of the box so you know what the picture will look like when the puzzle is finished but the "programmed person" hasn't.
You can start putting the puzzle together by picking out a key piece and placing it in the center of the table. And that can be as simple as, "I saw a really neat video. I was wowed by it." That's it. Just put the key piece on the table (in the environment) and let it be there.
Be cautious with the urge to involve the other person, ("Now it's your turn - you pick out a piece." - meaning, "Watch this video!") Let the programmed person do whatever they want with the puzzle piece. It may be meaningless to them in which case after some time passes you can take it off of the table and replace it with a different piece.
Constructing a puzzle with someone who has not seen the picture is an organic process. You cannot know how the puzzle will come together or in what timeframe. Keep a model in your own mind of what you are doing (the finished puzzle) and let the process unfold.
Hi Aussie Girl-
You said your boyfriend has seen Derren Brown, but says it would never happen to him.
I think that is one of the characteristics of a person under the R spell:
There is a lack of humility- they have strong conviction in thier invulnerability.
Somehow- they are superior- won't get sick, will become immortal, and surely they could not be controlled by an external force.
I believed all this too-
In my opinion, this is not really "your boyrfriend" who has these characteristics, but it is the "program" talking.
That is exactly why we must have love and compassion for our loved ones who are still "in it". They truly believe they are the "Radical few" on the planet- guided and protected by the most advanced, benevolent being in the UNIVERSE.
Nothing can possibly happen to them when they have been given so much in this lifetime----UNLESS they themselves screw it up by not doing what Ramtha told them to do. Then they created their reality by failing to focus, failing to create the desired time line.
It is a vicious circle of "do what I say, or you will suffer"- and when they suffer- they come running back to the disciplines- like an addict runs for thier drug of choice- but it is more subtle, because they think they are running to God, or enlightenment, not a drug-
It is a really cool trip while under the R trance- believe me- I felt I had a lot more control when I was "a practicing Ramster"- but I see now, I was in a trance- believing I was in control- not really having it. I was happier in my trance- but was I really?
as David put it- we were CON FUSED... (fused with the con!)
At that point- Nothing anyone could say would change my mind- How can any fallable HUMAN fight with the R- the heirophant? That is the whole thing about superiority- you can't teach or tell something to someone who already knows everything-
I had to have my awakening myself- it had to come from within- and for me-it happened AT THE RANCH- I suddenly started seeing everyone being pulled by the strings of the master puppeteer- not J but R- J is fallable because she is human, but if the R says it- it is true- that is why J has the R come out and back her up whenever she does something the crowd doesn't like, and then the crowd suddenly changes thier mind in her favor. I saw that happen, and experienced people I love get fierce about "being right" all in relation to what R says. What R says is their point of reference of reality- and anyone who disagrees is Wrong.
Being that you are so far away, and he has not been to an event in a long time- he may not relate to the experience I described. it sounds like he just loves the teachings, in the privacy of his own home and mind. All I can say is just love him- Maybe he will get it and maybe he won't- It is not your "job" to make him get it- Just love him and continue to live your life valiently.
"I had to have my awakening myself- it had to come from within- and for me-it happened AT THE RANCH- I suddenly started seeing everyone being pulled by the strings of the master puppeteer- not J but R- J is fallable because she is human, but if the R says it- it is true- that is why J has the R come out and back her up whenever she does something the crowd doesn't like, and then the crowd suddenly changes thier mind in her favor. I saw that happen, and experienced people I love get fierce about "being right" all in relation to what R says. What R says is their point of reference of reality- and anyone who disagrees is Wrong."
YES !! Oh, how well you described that. It's so true !
Eyes Wide Open/Discernment Now - thank you for you valuable information. The problem is my partner saw in me something of the characteristics of a Ramster, I'm very confident in myself, believe I have the power to control my life (things have always worked out how I wanted)am very happy and haven't been sick (even a cold) for as long as I can remember. My children who are 9 & 10 are also completely healthy and never suffer from illness, no days off school for years. It was a bit of a shock for him to realise that this all came from within myself, I have never been interested in spirituality, religion etc So in order to justify his spiritual superiority he spends a lot of time telling me that he can't discuss some things with me as I don't have the capacity to understand yet - as you can imagine with my overinflated ego I can't help but retaliate, usually something along the lines of "I know and understand everything, there is no teacher greater than myself, it is you that cannot comprehend what I know" cut to an enormous argument. Hence my decision on the advise of so many of you, to be tolerant, understanding and not push things down his throat.
I have read a lot on this forum about how uncaring Ramsters are however I would say my partner is more compassionate than I am and certainly has a more well developed social responsibility. There are many times I have thought how easy it would be to do what JZ does, it's just a matter of charisma and the ability to be emotionally detached from those around you. If you don't care about people it is very easy to manipulate them, we do it enough with those we care about, it's 100 times easier if you don't care about the people you are manipulating. I can understand the desire for power and wealth and why JZ would do it with such ease, I feel capable of doing the same, I would just rather get my wealth from other sources not exploitation.
With regards to attending events and Yelm, I am sure my partner would like to go more often but he isn't driven to do it, and I think the distance helps. We haven't got time for him to go off to events, we have a full life and a new business venture we are developing, if he put too much energy into RSE he would never get what he wants out of life, I think ven he can see that. He doesn't do his "disciplines" anymore and hasn't in the 2 years we have been together - he probably thinks thats the influence of the "reptilian" in his life (me!)
Yes, and with regards to health, there are people who are atheists and have had spontaneous healings from assorted dis-eases. Yet, Ramsters who have focused on Blue Body until they should probably turn blue, have died. People of religious persuasion will attribute their healings to God, or Jesus, or whomever applies to their chosen philosophy.
But the only common thread among these people, is not their spiritual belief, but the fact that they had spontaneous healings.
Even "studies" on prayer and healing have not found consistent results with regard to whether or not their is a positive health effect. Meditation does show consistent results, for lowering the body's vital signs and contributing to a feeling of calm/peace, and boosting the immune system.
Perhaps the variable to test, is whether or not the intent is coming from the person, since they control their functions. Biofeedback would agree with that. In any case, I find it all quite interesting.