I was a involved with Ramtha from 86 intil 98. I loved the Dialogues, Intensives, The Blue Women Event, Estes Part and the very best was Yucca Valley.

When it became MANDATORY, interesting enough, I had trouble manifesting the funds to get there. So I was always starting over. It drove me crazy how they were always saying that this was the last retreat for along time, and then of course there would once again be one.

I remember starting to have a huge battle in my mind using the SAME REASONING that Ramtha taught us, and I realized it was impossible for me to trust myself and him at the same time. So something in my rebelled and did not want to listen to the subliminals anymore and for a long time I was in a very deep battle.

It was very confusing to leave because there was also value there. I got my cards on the field and was great at remote review and I felt the love there and had experiences that I have no words for.

But then I went through what I called the terrible two's of my spirituality and started saying NO to alot of things that were said and I remember talking to a friend on the phone and I was weeping heavilly and said I felt maniputaled by the teachings and I did not want to be manipulated anymore and something deep broke in me.

Does anyone remember the book The Nine Faces Of Christ? There was a part in there where Jesus was in an intiation and his teacher told him to go through a door and Jesus decided to go through the second door. It turns out that the first door would have killed him. There was a great line in there that said something like this " There comes a time that you have to leave your teacher or their love could destoy you. I am quoting as close as I can remember. But that is something I thought about alot.

What I finally realized with the constant dualities and changing of the teachihgs, it started to feel like deep manipulation and it put us always in a state of confusion so we could NOT TRUST OURSELF at all.

I also noticed that he said things that were like powerful seeds of fear, more control

Such as " I look at the lives of people who left the school and they are all unhappy"

"If you do not drink wine with me, you will die"

"If you do not vote against Nascar, I will bring you down" ( Very Scary)

" I am leaving for awhile and there will be no more beginning events.

Cause For More Doubt

1) At a Yucca Valley Retreat he talked alot about In the Dark Night Of The Soul Bright Flows The River Of God and told us a beautiful tale of 2 men. Later I saw book by Taylor Caldwell that had that exact title and was the entire teaching
2) Estes Park he assured us we would one day be on our own and we would not need to come back, plus please do not move to Yelm
3)Soul Mates Intensive / It meant that you had finally loved yourself
4) After her divorce soul mates were out and magnetized seeds of love were in and if you still wanted your soul mate, you were in your image ( that really ****** me off)
5)Fear fear fear of the future, do not travel, Yelm is the only safe place ( I never liked it there and things never worked out for me there)

On and on and on. I still cherish the beauty and what I gained and love the path it set me on.I have found nothing better and that is sad someimes, but I am happy I can keep the wisdom.

I am still dealing with some fears of the days to come that seem to be here because of the signs that are around us and I do not feel comfortable living in California at all.

God Bless

Thanks for posting, Beautiful Mind.

You said, "Does anyone remember the book The Nine Faces Of Christ? There was a part in there where Jesus was in an intiation and his teacher told him to go through a door and Jesus decided to go through the second door. It turns out that the first door would have killed him. There was a great line in there that said something like this " There comes a time that you have to leave your teacher or their love could destoy you."

Yes, I do remember that book, and still own it. The message was just so deep, yet so simple. We are all children of God, and we need to have the backbone to accept responsibility for going Within for our connection to God and receiving our own answers.

That's far from being a "student" and/or a "follower", and having a Hierophant leading one...it's the birth of the Divine Child Within. Jesus "got it" in that book, as you know !! I found it highly inspirational.

Beautiful Mind:
you are a long time student of S E L F study.
and your remarks:
"and I realized it was impossible for me to trust myself and him at the same time.
and for a long time I was in a very deep battle.
It was very confusing to leave because there was also value there. I got my cards on the field and was great at remote review and I felt the love there and had experiences that I have no words for."

"also noticed that he said things that were like powerful seeds of fear, more control"

Such as " I look at the lives of people who left the school and they are all unhappy"

"If you do not drink wine with me, you will die"

"If you do not vote against Nascar, I will bring you down" ( Very Scary)

" I am leaving for awhile and there will be no more beginning events.

the very remarks in question, you bring up here. good for you.

question more.
delve more.

we are here for you......

Beautiful Mind......

Best post I have read yet!
I love your beautiful awareness.

Don't be worried in Kalifornee.
Just move into the foothills.
My favorite spot is just east of Angels Camp.
Check it out.

Beautiful Mind, I remember the part you are speaking about in the Nine Faces of Christ very well. The trusted teacher intentionally mislead the student to the point that if the student took the teacher's advice it would have killed him.

Ramtha made it clear that the Nine Faces of Christ was the greatest book ever written on what it takes to be a Christ.

In the book the initiate listened to his intuition not the rationale that said my teacher has given me this education and he knows much better than I do.

The voice within knows there is something wrong at RSE. The rationale listens unquestioningly to the presentation of the teacher which can be interpreted a multitude of ways by a huge audience.

There has to be a considered benefit of a presentation by the "voice within". If the voice within says there is no benefit then it is unwise to take an action on the basis of a presentation.

There is no substantiation that the story of Christ is anything other than a myth. There is also no substantiation for the idea of a god within. These are "feel good" stories and nothing more. Hooks.

Thanks for your thoughtful post Beautiful Mind.

I read '9 faces of Christ' (1993) by E Whitworth 15 years ago, and alas, it went the way of over a thousand other books I threw out when I moved 4 years ago. I knew then that JZ has referenced it at least privately from my talks with newly exited RSE members. As I recall, I was not impressed with Whitworth's effort as a literary work--poor writing style, forced theology.

I looked up responses to the book on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Nine-Faces-Christ-Narrative-Initiations/dp/0875166652/ref=pd_sim_b_2/102-4798211-5568167

here are 2 examples, one positive and the other not so:
1:
"I have read this book 3 times and will now purchase it again for a 4th reading, since I loaned it and well, you know. But, this book I believe carries so much truth with it that the soul cannot deny it and continues to seek it out, read after, read after, read. I find it to be an amazing amount of wisdom and spiritual teaching, more than I ever got from the New Testament. For me, it is more of the bible, or what I believe they would never print, or allow to be written in the bible then I have seen before. It feels like a channeled piece of work though ..."

2:
"So badly written it's howlingly funny. I suggest anyone interested in comparative religion to buy and study the various texts themselves and skip this book, unless you're interested in comedy. This is a good example of New Age mish-mash at its worst..."

Why are people, esp from RSE, so polarized on this Christ issue? Is it conditioning or education or prejudice or just personal preference?

Ramtha/Judy has claimed to be the new Christ on earth at this time---that is well known by both critics of RSE and believers--so it stands to reason that many ex-members will have some notion of Christ to struggle with after all those years of distortion.
I experienced similar distortions with CUT and the entire Theosophy milieu.
My journey on this issue is not unlike so many other ex-cult members I know whether they are Christian now or not. Since the 1980s I had subscriptions to scholarly magazines and read books that concentrate on Biblical ideas, Bible archeology and anthropology.

What took a long time for me was to sort out my personal bias against reasonable established facts from scholarship.

This conundrum that 'Beautiful Mind' brings up, the battle of trust, I think will go beyond the simple dichotomy of either "Ramtha or Oneself" as your journey progresses. No one alone is the arbiter of truth or reality. The question for me is whose reality will I share and how good is it? What sources can you trust?

Just some thoughts.
Joe

Dorthy posted, "There is no substantiation that the story of Christ is anything other than a myth. There is also no substantiation for the idea of a god within. These are "feel good" stories and nothing more. Hooks."

I agree with you (in part) that there may not be "substantiation" that the story of Christ is anything but a myth. Speaking for myself, I said that I found that book "inspirational", which I did. Such writing can come in various genres, fiction, non-fiction, etc.

There are plenty of people who would debate that there is no God at all. The bottom line is we each have the freedom to find what we do believe. Hopefully, in the process, we don't need to make others "wrong" if/when their choice of belief differs from ours.

Beautiful Mind, thank you for a beautiful post. You are wise to see that you had the conflict between you & Ramtha/JZ. It was already too late for me by the time I got out. After 10 years in RSE the conflict was ongoing, e.g. I couldn't trust myself or anyone, even God. This makes for internal madness as it literally divides one against oneself & everything else. It literally fractures the self. It's those pieces of myself that I now need to gather & retrieve with the help of counseling. It can be overwhelming, especially when most of the walls of that foundation that was built on "shifting sands" come down almost all at once like mine did. If it gets overwhelming, don't be afraid or delay asking for help & support. You deserve it. M.

The "God within" is one of the foundational teachings of RSE. It is neither right nor wrong, it is dogma - a point of view presented as authoritative but lacking in substantiation.

not that I am a solicitor of the Bible, but, how about: Be Still and Know that I am God? (Psalm 46:10)
or the BuddHist equivalent: the peace that passeth all understanding ( I am sure the Christians here can quote that as well- Phillipians 4:7)
can ANY ONE "cite their sources" ( college term) for Ramtha, other than JfngZ? was the dude for real?

( me thinks not)

About this "substantiation" issue; I don't know of ay religion who can "prove" their claims. That's not a put down of any one of them. It's just to say that we may choose to place our faith somewhere. If we are in a Protestant prayer group, praying for someone to receive peace, or healing (whatever), and they do receive it, of course those people are going to attribute that happening to the source of their particular religion, whatever it happens to be. It's part of what has caused years of division, because folks want/need to believe that they have the "right" religion. Even the atheists believe fervently that they are "right". I find it all interesting.

whatcha....
well said.
just a small tirade there on my part
I guess I will re-visit Viktor Frankl's
Man's Search for Meaning.

Hi Tree,

I wasn't posting because I thought you were on any type of tirade !

I was only making an observation/point.

Agreed, Whatcha, no religion does prove their claims which is precisely the reason to question them. It is called critical thinking.

Faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof

Isn't faith a contributing factor to EMF's existence?

EWO asked, "Isn't faith a contributing factor to EMF's existence?"

Yes, in part it certainly was. Through a series of unplanned, yet synchronistic events, there were people who connected with one another as former RSE students. Not that such an event was "new", but the way it happened (people who wanted to speak out and had questions, etc), seemed to be new. There are yet more people with information that we're aware of, who have not posted. Perhaps one day they will.

One thing led to another, and the result of a group effort birthed this website. What would become of it, we couldn't be sure, though we had an idea based on input from others. It proved correct; people wanted a place like this to connect and be able to share their experiences in a venue that previously has not existed for them to do so. (as you know)

whatcha:
I didn't take offense at all.
I was more apologizing for a litte outburst on my part.