Enlighten Me Free


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HI - I've been perusing this site for awhile, wondering how to ask my questions or state my conclusions which are still evolving. I'm still current and just completed a primary. Have only been in the school since summer 2006. So to all of you who are unsure whether or not you're helping people, believe me, you are. If I'm browsing, then many more are. Thank you for your open arms and nonjudgmental nature.

I had several paranormal experiences and a hefty dose of intuition before I found rse. Raised in a very strictly religion home, questioning anything was out of the question. So I questioned within and then lived with the 'guilt.' Happiness was to be feared due to a belief it 'always being followed by something bad.' I lived in fear as a child from nuns yelling and growing within myself to realize there is more. This cannot be THE god of creation, in the old testament.

Years would go by before I picked up books from the eastern world, wherein I learned through the baghavad gita, initially, that God is love. God is all and within us all. I read all I could from buddhism to the upanishads, vedas, still yearning for more truth, and I knew our own minds had to have this truth. Our heads are way to large to have no use for the brain!

I am quite intuitive and have a keen interest in healing. I saw 'what the bleep,' and remembered picking up a book many years ago about the channeling of the warrior, but the 'channel' aspect was not appealing to me then and I bought the 'prophets' instead. However, following viewing 'what the bleep' and after purchasing books and more cd's and dvd's, the message was so beautiful. I HAD to go to an event. And the event was wonderful. I did feel the elevation of the kundalini and the wonderful fourth seal. Always having compassion for those without dignity, I would offer dignity to those who had none, for God lives within them also. But I was stunned to see in a DVD at primary where ramtha(copyrighted I guess) shouted our 'judgments' etc., 'compassion' - something that is ME. IS ME FROM ALL THAT I KNOW I AM; FROM MY GOD. Compassion and dignity to other living beings.

Confusing to me was that I accompanied some other people to other beginners in different places. One teacher during c&e said 'this is how all the masters did it.' Then another beginners, there was very little c&e and I was told by a blue college student/friend that there was concern over the germs/spitting. C&E was the one thing where I truly felt elevated within; and I know it is taught elsewhere, as is a lot of what I've heard. But i was becoming more confused about the teaching of the school because the beginning events were telling something different and I didn't know what was what. Take blue body explained so intricately, then completely different another time. I wasn't the only one who noticed, since the young girl next to me said the same thing.

If I wished for more contradictions or untruths, I can go back to organized religion, I thought. I was concerned and approached the staff member about this, and he was very pleasant after I explained this is not what I was taught and had been taught it must be exact.

I was told by a blue college student (we were all invited to blue college this past primary) that the school was going in a different direction. An ascended being who exists in no time confuses me as to not knowing this would occur. Then I remembered that judy uses the phrase, 'oh my heck' a lot. Ramtha (copyrighted) used it in a DVD. Why was he talking the manner she was? The language was changing, and the wine ceremony in the summer left me frightened after I BELIEVED this was it. I thought, oh my God, another betrayal of trust and truth?

I didn't want to go to this primary, but I did. I don't know why; perhaps I believed I would learn more and wind up in blue college to REALLY LEARN. Of course, the field was total mud, and they allowed cards to be placed on the fence over the creek. I didn't even know there was a creek there since it was dried up during the summer and my fall follow-up. People were walking right into the creek, which had expanded and the field was very slick. I'd already fallen during the walks, and people were coughing, blowing noses and had sore throats. I am radiantly healthy. I am radiant with a fever more like it. (still on antibiotics after returning home with probably bronchitis - no, I would rather be radiantly healthy indeed. : D

The day before the event ended, I really knew that this was it for me. We took our cards off the fence (I'd done very well at sending and receiving and remote view and found my card at beginners); but something was just 'not right' this event. When most of us got out of our wet gear and washed the mud off our boots, we were greeted at the door of the hall with two more cards for us to demonstrate what we'd learned during the teachings. I knew I shouldn't do it; but felt 'old institutionalized religion' guilt creeping back up. So that I own. I took the cards and did it. But when walking out the big doors, I saw another woman shaking her head "no," she did not go out. While I was out in the field I became terribly hot and stopped and took stock of things. Here I was 'herded' about as I had been in organized religion. I had a fever, cold, cough, sore throat. I realized that I AM IN COMMUNION WITH MY OWN GOD. I realized that yes, I had learned a lot about myself in walking that field, and I now take responsibility and not blame others for what I've done. But I was MOST DEFINITELY NOT THERE TO LEARN SURVIVAL SKILLS SKATING ACROSS MUD INCHES DEEP ONLY TO WIND UP IN A CREEK that surpassed the boundaries of my waterproof pants, particularly while I had a fever et al.

Right there, I told myself, NO ONE IS GOING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO. I am a leader, I am not a follower. I am removing my blinders, finding the guard, and telling him/her I have a fever and that's that. Throw me out, I don't care. I have found my own truth and that is my path. As it turned out, the male guard, not the lead guard, was very pleasant and I was leaving the field one way or another. I was surprised to see others in the toilets (I never left to use one using mind over matter). Other people were walking around and leaving.

One of the early days of the event, there were different groups doing different activities. My group was getting ready to go out in the field full of mud, to do fieldwork blindfolded. Then a guard began shouting while we were getting wetgear on, 'our teacher is here our teacher is here' and everyone ran out. We were instructed to do the walk. I have WILL, and I walked directly in front of the entity, with VERY strong will. Then we were all called by the entity to come upfield. My boots had inches of water in them and running in the mud was not conducive to a quick response, even with focus. Gross mass to mass?

We were told that if we could see our 'bands' we would cry. We were admonished. I can go back to church to be admonished. What occurred next is the infirmed were called to the front and told to heal themselves. Ramtha(copyrighted) and/or JZ was there telling them to use her/his mind. The people did walk without walkers slowly. There was some finger-shaking at some. Did these people walk with their will? Because I have done things with 'my will be done' years ago. It's when I lose MY will, that I'd feel helpless. So I truly believe in one's WILL. Or was their belief in the entity entire? I don't know.

I'm on my own path now. Perhaps that's it. We go through these hideous things, and we find ourselves. But if we wanted a 'survival course' perhaps it ought be advertised in that manner. I'm very familiar with the eastern manners of detachment. Detachment from body, things, etc. But the body is the greatest temple ever constructed and depriving it of food and emptying the bladder is unkool at best. I've already gone days without anything but tea and working nights. I can do these things when I have to. I wasn't there to learn this; I was there for TRUTH. I guess I found it, but I also learned that is not my path. I, too, am a leader at heart. It's not ego; but a matter of not being the flock.

I came home, yes, creating MY day in MY way with MY attitude. I 'graduated' from the entranced state and in whatever neighborhood to continue to follow my 'knowingness' and NEVER allow ANYONE to 'herd' me into something I do not want to do.

So, I learned to accept responsibility. I did have a healing of a chronic illness. But, I also remembered that I had done the same in a smaller manner when I was much younger - using MY will. Was I just reminded we can all do the same with OUR will?

I will not return to rse. I have learned. I hold no grudges, for it was my own decision. However, I also know that having compassion for others is my way of being this life. And I don't care who believes its right or wrong. And nothing is stronger within than one's WILL.

I learned, I 'graduated' myself. Just in time to not go into blue college. I would have loved to have heard the Ramtha (copyrighted) of old, and not an 'oh my heck.'

Now to get rid of the 'belief' that this entity sees all we do since we were students. It is NOT my will, nor is it of my God to be 'overseen.' My decisions and choices are mine and mine alone. I'm not under yet another 'telescope.'

And I never even got to hear about the et's! : ) Not sure I want to. : D
I offer the beauty and joy of your God to all of you, eternally.
I am free to be me, behind the 'line' I now realize I was a blunted en-tranced non-feeling entity. To make the 'jump' I must not forget that I am also human, and to deny loving my family is no path to enlightenment for me.

Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, St. Germaine - did they ask to be paid for their truths? My thought is that when master beings are concerned for the welfare of a planet, why is money necessary? Get on the tube and show us and tell us. Why use another body? If so, appear as a female to demonstrate the God within all. Also, I have heard with my own ears the fees are set by the entity. 'How much would you pay?' I've been to beginner's where the people were not wealthy, just beginners wanting to learn more and could not afford fees and airfare. When I repeated it, I was told the beginner just negated their manifestation by thinking this. A very beginner in the school.

And now Micael, who was a backbone for many of the former catholics is no longer lecturing. That was a major thing that helped many. I wish him success in his endeavors. And the shop on the premises will not carry Dr. Joe's new book. Why what seems to be pettiness? Greatness will want to push its students forward and into the light, for it only magnifies the truth therein.

So it's all too human. I am this, but I seek more. Maybe rse was tremendous when Ramtha(copyrighted) was there in the beginning, but what happened? I thought I would see a kindly entity and I absolutely refuse admonishment based on searching for enlightenment.

We do create. This I know. But creating is much different than being part of a 'herd.'

Not an elephant : )
Sita - anyone ever read the Hindu epic, "The Ramayana?"


Hi Guilt,

I really enjoyed your post. I think you mirror my feelings about RSE in many ways. I have also decided to not throw the baby out with the bath water and to love myself for the choices I have made and not blame others.

It sounds as though you question whether Judy is really channeling Ramtha anymore. That is how I felt for a long time and I continued to attend school because it still had value in my life at the time.

I think I have learned what I needed to learn from the school and since there was nothing really new the herd mentality was getting to be unbearable. I have always been an individual and the message of freedom is what attracted me to the school. Then things changed. It became ore about following rules and not questioning authority.

I wonder about the changes in BB teachings. That to me was a very powerful and sacred teaching. What are they saying that is different now?


Oh yes, I wanted to say that it's too bad Miceal is not teaching anymore he was one of my favorite teachers.

When I was in school and even today I sometimes wonder if some of the teachers and staff and perhaps even students know that it isn't Ramtha anymore but feel it is still benefitting people so say nothing

One thing that is undeniable is that many people that go there and do the disciplines are able to heal themselves. There are beginner students giving testimonials of healings at the end of beg events all the time. Unless these are paid actors, this is pretty astounding.


Yup, RSE is the "fast food" version of religion. McRamtha/JZ, anyone? Millions and millions sold, er, I mean "taught."

One thing I found interesting in your narrative was when you were out on the muddy field with a sore throat, ect. You made the decision to act in your own behalf and leave. Yet telling the Red Guard suggests needing permission.


Cowboy notes: ' One thing I found interesting in your narrative was when you were out on the muddy field with a sore throat, ect. You made the decision to act in your own behalf and leave. Yet telling the Red Guard suggests needing permission.'

This is an interesting observation, but another perspective is necessary for another to understand my behavior. It is not my nature to sneak away, but to face life head-on. To walk off of the field without notification would, to me, denote a lack of self-respect and responsibility for my actions. Even in the midst of a 'herd' I can still be me. And I was. It's all about being ourselves, I believe, and owning our actions, etc. Self respect for me. It's what I need in order to evolve, for I once was quite a shy individual many, many years ago! Everyone had their own path. This is a part of mine. Owning. Thank you for the thought-provoking comment! Yee ha, Cowboy!!! : D


In the early years of RSE (that is 1989 to early 90's) students were out in the rain and mud a lot. In the winter ice and snow. Ramtha used to tell us he changed the weather.

Some days it rained for a very long time. Many days on the field out in the rain. I was in the primary group, which was the equivalent to the now blue college group. They always got longer hours of the activities and in general worse weather worse weather. I know because on some occasions I also attended the secondary group. Did Ramtha alter the weather? Who can prove it?

One Tank exercise was just pure mud. The white walls of the great hall were covered with mud afterwards as people brushed against it coming back to the arena.

Paradise Beach. We sat in the stallion paddock blindfolded for days focussing. A handful of food. No sleeping. No talking. We sat underneath blue tarpaulins when it rained and snowed. The condensation inside our sleeping bags froze. Our water bottles froze.

We were also taught Tahumo. That was an exercise of the imagination that was supposed to enable one to heat up ones body temperature to transcend the environment. A story was told of a man in the Himalayas wearing only a loin cloth that got up to greet the morn. He melted the snow around him. I never met anyone who accomplished it and teaching it was discontinued.

At the time I was under the illusion being in the group of the most dedicated would benefit me. Ramtha used to tell us we were the "trailblazers."

When the next beginners event was due Ramtha would say how "advanced" his beginners were and how they were "ready" to be there and that the advanced students who had gone through all of that "training" needed because they were so much more ingrained in their attitudes. This of course made the beginner's feel important and encouraged them to part with more cash.

Oftentimes advanced students could not make their required events. They were constantly giving any spare cash for the next installment in enlightenment only to find they could not afford the required event.

It is only recently that RSE has had catchup events. During most of its operation the advanced people went back to the beginning classes and then those advanced students that could not make their required were part of the latest group that were so stunningly "advanced."

Many sincere students in the early years attended every single event if they could afford it. This also meant every single beginner's event ......the world was going to be in turmoil soon and Ramtha's people would sit itn peace because they had made "the work" priority above all else.....their families, jobs, business everything.
The thought they would get the value of doing the extra disciplines which many had trouble getting motivated to do if they were not in the arena.

Techniques of The Great Fleece become more apparent after long term experience because you can understand the same cycle repeats itself. Very convenient if the latest influx of students are totally unaware of what has preceded.


'Techniques of The Great Fleece become more apparent after long term experience because you can understand the same cycle repeats itself. Very convenient if the latest influx of students are totally unaware of what has preceded.'

So you were one of the originals! I heard the stories of 'paradise beach' and sitting for hours awake. Too, of rolling in horse manure. Bless you. You are so strong and amazing. Look at what you have survived.

So each group is so 'advanced' because the fees are so high that the students from way back have difficulty paying and then re-enter via the group with new students which elevated the entire group. Interesting. I thank all of you along with my God for my 'breakthrough' after a short time.

I began to find myself monitoring my thoughts at home. While focus is indeed beneficial, I didn't care much for this sensation of my monitoring my thoughts because 'what we think matters.' Not thinking of doing harm or things of that nature, but even of relations with my spouse or aiding someone out of compassion? What, I thought? I'm policing my thoughts in the same manner, actually worse, than when I was in my strict organized religion? Freedom and individuality? I went to the place to develop my inner vision and healing activity. All else was quite a surprise. I believe this is what was on my mind prior to my primary. Then the 'herding' began, and days were optional for those who worked, so the evening was a repeat of our day videos minus the fieldwork but with the walk at night.

There are other manners of detaching from one's mind than rolling in mud. We just take our mind away to somewhere we find pleasant. Is it necessary to be under severe conditions, unless people are in the military or in survival training? If that's what is the core teaching, I already know of people with me who are not returning. They were served a huge buffet in Hawaii. What a shock to see the muddy field and I talked to a couple of women who had meltdowns on the field.

The stories of the Himalayan monks could be quite true. Their manner of training is quite different, however. Gurus generally require some sort of "worship" or appreciation, but not all. Some in the east are not even 'rishis' and can open an ashram. One has to be careful, but there are indeed worthy teachers, however not quite an individual mentor in 700+ halls. That is not individualism. How can that evolve anyone into anything other than another sheep? Just my opinion and open for discussion.

Levitation is a 'no-thing' in the eastern world among the learned ones. It is not a huge surprise to discuss it. This is what I was searching for, these Truths of origin and ability. However, the lesson learned serves well. We all have our own path. Your path has been difficult, but serves as a light to so many others. You are a light to those in ignorance of what you've experienced. Remember that. You are a leader.

Just tell it like it is. Truth is Truth. And it will set you free.
You are a very brave individual. Fight for truth, for your truth. One great teaching was, 'get up.' I remember that one every am. :D


G2G, again, I follow you.
Christel, thank you for bringing up the early events with such clarity.
I must say, as far as Tahumo, I was in the first group who ever engaged that discipline.
We were told to strip to our undies, close our eyes, draw a circle of fire around ourselves on the ground, and blow in the C & E manner.
I did.
Time was lost( at least fore me).
When J. O ( then JZ's boyfriend) said that the discipline was over, I slowly, ever so slowly , opened my eyes, to see two inches of snow on the ground, I saw cars leaving the Ranch, and around my being, totally green grass within a 3' circle of myself and my clothes , and my being totally dry.
I put my pile of dry clothes on, slowly, walked to my car, and drove home.


G2G, thank you for sharing,I came to the same place within when I was at RSE and that was it for me. I love Krishna and Babaji and Eastern teaching. I have study it for over 20 years.

What Ramtha teaches is extremely questionable. I don't know what Ramtha is, but something is not right. All I can say for people out there, run as far as you can, get away from that school if you truly love yourself.


The EMF forum is not the place to promote “Ramtha”….
But you know that already..
Try the Master’s Connection…

I hope your worm hole adventures bring you closer to experiencing the wonders of life here on Earth....?
that are freely available...
Along with love and compassion for our fellow human beings....
Also freely available
with no "Ramtha" trade mark.



In the early years there were lots of students coughing and getting colds/infections. At some events it was a very large portion of the audience. Some of the students came from an environment where the weather was over 100 degrees Fahrenheit to an environment of around 10 degrees virtually overnight (That is outside on Paradise beach.....no heated arena.) The locals found it cold. That is not an even playing field amongst students.

We were told that we were "transmuting".......our bodies were changing from an acid base to a protein base from doing C and E.

The frequencies in the loud music played were supposed to be shattering virusses and bacteria in our bodies.

C and E and the pagan dance could go on for several hours.

For all of those many hours engaging the disciplines I have never seen any students whose physiology is markedly different.

The RSE teachers.....Dr. Joe, Audrey, Miceal were at most events. There bodies did not change markedly. If what was presented was true they should have.


I enjoyed your post and empathise with you.

I went to Blue College this year. You said you did not want to go, but went anyway. It is amazing to me, how we could truly believe that our evolution was dependent upon attending an event. I did the same thing. I had been in chronic pain for 2 months for a medical condition, but I "had to go to BC". I "could hear" or remembered Ram saying that we have been living this same lifetime over and over again, and we keep coming back to the school to get it right. I thought, I must go, because I do not want to spin out of this evolution and have to do it all over again. I did not want to regret my choice.

I spent tons of money to prepare. At Blue college follow up we were told BC would be "R's event" and J would be teaching Primary, and we were going back to the old days to learn Tahuma, be blindfolded for days on end, We were going to be taught to become a Christ, and J's Primary was going to be taught to those who wished to build an empire and be wealthy. We were told to have personal toilets in our tents, bring food and water for the entire time.

With all the money I spent for the event, flight and gear, I thought, I could go on a lovely holiday in the tropics. But I wanted God more than a vacation, so in pain, I went to BC. It was a blessing though, because had I not gone, I would have only felt guilty, beat myself up . By going, I was able to SEE and it was the beginning of my departure.

The evening started out with the announcement of Reserved Seating for $1000, $500 and $300. I was sick to my stomach. What the heck is this? I thought this was the event for those persons who were beyond the desire for money, and wanted God more than anything else. People were quiet about it, but when more details were given about the reserved seating, the girl who works in registration got BOOed. Not her personally, but the crowd was NOT happy about the new policy. A little while later "R" ????" came out and gave the student body a stern talking to, "SHAME ON YOU" he said. You cannot change, that is why you have a problem with the reserved seating! And the whole crowd changed their minds about the reserved seating, just like that, just because "R said"... and I just sat there in amazement.

I did not change my opinion. I can afford the seat more than others in the school, but I did not wish to participate because I see it as a delineation of superiority. I think it is rediculous to charge for an annual "ownership" of a square of astroturf.

What do you feel is the appropriate price to pay for enlightenment? Are the teachings not worth it? How rediculous. God is free. Money has no value in higher realms. And if the days to come are so near, and we are to be putting away food, clothing etc, paying off our properties, why spend an extra $1000 on a spot of astroturf?

Who has the alterior motive? Isn't it obvious? But I watched all those people, nod in agreement with the Big guy, Bring on the change and suddenly the seats were so important, they sold out in minutes.

All this cash coming in, and do you know that only 2 of the instant hot water spouts were in working order. Isn't that something when EVERYONE had to bring their own food, and it was cold and wet. Can the school not afford to fix the insta-hot?

And what about all the empty promises? Blue College was not what "HE" said it would be. We were not blindfolded for days, we did not learn Tahuma. Why tell people they will get something and then not give it to them? My thought is that too many people got freaked out about it and did not register, and there was not going to be enough money made on the event, so BEGINNERS from Hawaii were invited, and the money maker of those who wanted to be in BC could come for a weekend and buy in for $600, then the event was so big, that what was promised as the experience to become a Christ was not delivered.

And how many people went to the Italy Assay because the Heirophant said it would be a continuation of the Yelm Assay, in which he would teach the secret of Immortality, the rest of the lesson that was supposed to be Baktau? How many people hussled over to Europe for that event and didn't get what was promised?

Well, of course not, because they do not know the secrets to immortality, but they do know the secrets of marketing and hypnotic suggestion.

And one more question, What the bleep happened to the crew from What the Bleep? Will Arnst? Mark Vicente? They made the film that brought great numbers TO the school, and then LEFT the school? Suspiciously absent?

Thank you for creating a safe place for me to spill my thoughts. It feels good to just let myself say what I have been thinking, but had no one to tell!
Oh, yeah, I will be taking a REAL vacation with my time off from now on... somewhere warm and beautiful where I will make happy memories of pure enjoyment!


Maybe someone should write to Dr. Phil and take "Ramtha" along for counselling?


thank you for a refreshing post discernment.
very elloquently written.


You are welcome. The obvious, unobvious! I have had quite a few laughs at some of the recent posts.


And thank you.. Christel
for a very enlightening post..
I mean "discernmentNOW"
Oh heck..
Thank you.. one and all.




'And thank you.. Christel
for a very enlightening post..
I mean "discernmentNOW"
Oh heck..
Thank you.. one and all.



Thank YOU, David, for all of your work in getting this site up. Thank YOU for the opportunity for people to discuss this openly and for people searching for information on this topic to finally have a place to hear what went on. I wish you were here before I took the leap into the school. It was for a short time and long enough for me question and see the 'herding' and recognize the verbal abuse.

I read a post on factnet by nyk and my opinion is it is brilliant because what nyk said spells it out for me. Once you're in the school the real challenge is to get out and grow. With the powerful hypnotic suggestions and trance states and feel good music and dancing to energize its so easy to become for lack of a better term ramatized or traumatized. Crowd standing and sitting and looking to see what the one next is doing and then doing the same. Oh MY heck I determined, I do not want to get up and dance right now, so its essence and higher being giving me this information. I morphed on my own and refused to follow a crowd just because. Thing is I never really was a follower of anything other than my religious upbringing and I threw the institution away. I do believe Jesus did try to show the path. I wanted to learn his secret teachings.

What an enlightenment to me to see that in my search for enlightenment here was another crowd I was in and guilt setting in with me believing it was my body and personality connection I needed to get over and this was the only reason these questioning thoughts were entering me. Now I am back to who I was before with my emotions of love and I learned how to recognize when anger begins with me. More important I learned how to recognize what is is within me that triggers the anger or whatever other emotion which would make me miserable before.

I believe everyone here came to their own awakening on their own and are now more evolved than they had ever been. You all did it on your own. The power was always in you.
So we connect here and communicate. That is what you created ON YOUR OWN. Send all newbies here because they don't know the history or recognize the pattern.

I do remember one of my first partners in the school saying this has all the markings of a cult with the exception they allowed us to eat. Perceptive person from the start.



Really enjoyed reading your story, DNOW. I had a similiar experience of sitting in the audience surrounded by people shaking their heads yes when the only sane answer was no. (The treatment of Joe Dispenza and Audrey Wolfe (Grandmother) come immediately to mind as examples.)

It's sad to walk away from a dream and sadder still to acknowledge that one has been conned. Gets even worse trying to figure out if there is or ever was a spiritual entity that one had a relationship with.

"If you're going through hell, keep going."
(Winston Churchill) (and he did NOT copyright it)
I liked this sentiment because I definately felt like I was going through hell...

Was interested in your description of the reserved seating announcement and how the "Big Guy" needed to come out in order to admonish the students.

"SHAME ON YOU," "Ramtha" said. "You cannot change, that is why you have a problem with reserve seating."

Here we see a common mind control technique, the conundrum. What emotion does "SHAME ON YOU" generate? That is the set-up.

"You cannot change, that is why you have a problem with reserve seating." How about - "You cannot change, that is why you are refusing to spend your money."

So now we have a "student" experiencing guilt in their body. Feeling guilty generates a desire to please. "I CAN CHANGE! I will prove it to Ramtha!"
Student buys a seat.

It was that easy...all of the seats were sold in 15 minutes. "Ramtha" intentionally generated a specific emotion and then used that emotion to manipulate unwitting students into a specific behavior.


''''SHAME ON YOU," "Ramtha" said. "You cannot change, that is why you have a problem with reserve seating."

Here we see a common mind control technique, the conundrum. What emotion does "SHAME ON YOU" generate? That is the set-up. ''''

This supposed evolved ascended master shamed her-his students into guilt. Isn't that one of the 'emotions' we are to master this time around ? It is what I remember from my beginner's group.
So why is he/she inflicting it upon the students? If all were to listen to the early words years ago JR would be out of business because students would have evolved beyond this control.

But it is still another inconsistency with the teachings. Who is keeping track? Which tv news shows did any stories on the group? Very interested in seeing copies from the stations or a service. True also would be a view of the rockumentary. New students need to be aware of this. I know if I were aware i never would have gone.

What the @*%&!' was my first exposure to JR and I looked up the website and saw the ad for sending and receiving, remote view, healing. These are the things I was interested in as secret ancient teachings. I have my own dose of intuition and did before.

I didn't hear about the reserved seating until primary but it did not set well with me and some others commented on it. There was a definite buzz about the thing. Then an appearance by JR and the crowd seemed to have forgotten.

Its as though a parent cuts its own child with a knife, then kisses the injury afterward and places a bandaid on the wound. Very confusing for people who are there and suspend what IS reality in wanting to believe that we haven't been forgotten by our higher being. We wanted communication and a true path to God for we have so many been lied to by religion. All along God is everywhere including inside of us and we innately do know right and wrong. This is the best way I can describe what I know occurred with me. I still would prefer the teachings I thought I paid for.


In the very early days there were no seating numbers at all. The days when the floor of the arena was "saffron dust"......an indoor horse riding arena.
People used to line up for a very long time to get the seats near the stage. It was first come, first serve. The same indiviuals were always the early birds in the line and others did not get a chance to be near the stage if they were unable to get there early or unwilling to go through what had to be endured to get those seats.

At the Estes Park retreat in Colorado ("89) there were bomb threats on JZ's life. Those continuing came back to the Ranch (Some could not change their travel tickets. ) They were going to let students in vbia the front entrance and there was a very long line going down the main street of Yelm. No one was willing to lose their place so they urinated in the line. It was battlefield mentality.

The participants had to go to registration again. I got in early as I managed to get lodgings with a Windwords staff member. When they opened the gates there was a STAMPEDE to get up front in registration.
They almost knocked the handful of us already in there over.

Having assigned seats not issued on a first come, first serve basis was a relief from this scenario.
The latest arrangement is just a more "civilised" version. It does not provide equal opportunity for students.


"At the Estes Park retreat in Colorado there were bomb threats on JZ's life."

Do you know this for a fact or is it a story that was presented? Did you personally witness the threat or is it possible that the whole thing was contrived as an exercise in manipulation and control?

Over the years how many times have we heard Judy/ramtha say, "I'm leaving." It is an abusive method for strengthening a twisted connection.


I know that the Estes Park retreat was scheduled to go for two weeks and the accommodation was at a YMCA. The price was $1700 and all food was included.
There were around 600 people present. I was in a bunk style room with two other ladies. It was about the third or fourth day that we were told that a threat had been made on JZ's life and she was returning to the Ranch.

I cannot validate if the threat was genuine as I was not involved behind the scenes. I heard later that a Christian was supposed to have made the threat but cannot substantiate that.

People had to change air tickets and pay extra for the change in departure location. Some could not change their tickets.

The retreat was to continue at the Ranch. Everyone that went back there had to suddenly find accommodation.

Not long after the re registration at the Ranch the place was crawling with officials. Some said another bomb threat had been made and they were searching JZ's house. Was this true? I do not know.

Suddenly a large tent was hired for most of the students to sit in and only 50 people were allowed inside the arena.....the old and the ill as priority.
Ramtha taught from a podium placed in the big double doorways near the coffee shop.

The Fire Department was apparently the cause of the evacuation of the arena as it most certainly did not live up to safety standards for a purpose other than horse riding.

There was a lot of chaos. It was my first retreat and my first time to the USA so I was unfamiliar with the uniforms of officialdom in the US so I cannot say just which departments were present.

People had a choice of collecting $200 and not continuing the retreat or staying. Hardly feasible to come from the other side of the planet and leave at this point.

Ramtha did not teach very much and the whole thing lasted only a few more days.......long short of the advertised 2 weeks. The whole thing was a fiasco. Was the threat real? I presumed so as I would not consider anyone would create so much chaos otrherwise. The question everyone was asking of course was that if Ramtha is so powerful then why all of this drama?

Also at Estes Park they had lots of nice desserts made for us to go with the evening meal. Everyone enjoyed them until Ramtha gave the teachings that sugar was polluting our natural instinct to know what to eat. So the next day the caterers came out with 600 deserts and hardly anyone ate them.......only the brave who transcended the need to feel guilt.........

We never got our money back for the non-existent accommodation and food that should have been supplied.

When we got back to the Ranch it was announced we would all get prepared sack lunches. This offer was rapidly withdrawn for reasons unknown to me...

Did RSE get their money back from the YMCA and the caterers? I do not know. There was never any reason given why we did not get a refund. Lots of people were furious after the whole thing and I heard many left.

When no reasons were given lots of people assumed that all of us created it.....yeah right.....first retreat for me and probably many others......and of course RSE created theirs. They were quite obviously our "runner" to get beyond our limitations.


"Over the years how many times have we heard Judy/ramtha say, "I'm leaving." It is an abusive method for strengthening a twisted connection. "

I agree.
Just wanted to also add that students have been told by JR that if they don't like ...insert whatever... then they can follow the 'EXIT' sign, and leave.

So, we have a double standard ?

Do everything according to JR's standards or you're toast.
Do much of anything according to your own standards, and it doesn't match JR's, your still toast.

The moral of the story is that nobody needs to have a "teacher" outside of them - they need to find God within them.

JR should have a nice trip when s/he leaves. I believe France is on the list of considerations - have heard that one bandied about. It's nice there !


"JR should have a nice trip when s/he leaves. I believe France is on the list of considerations - have heard that one bandied about. It's nice there !
Email: emailwhatchamacallit@yahoo.com"

Avec de la patience on arrive a tout!!

That is if my French is very good any more!

But pity on the French!

G2G you have made some very insightful observations.

With regard to the reserved seating and the prices;

I personally believe that JZ is well aware of persuasive techniques and practices them on a regular basis.

Have a look at "Obedience to Authority" Harper & Row 1969 By Stanley Milgram

In Psychological experiments carried out to find out and help understand how the Nazis could have acted as they did and what factors aided them Dr. Milgram discovered some chilling results.

Among them was the closer one was to the authority figure the more likely they were to be influenced by them.

Pay $'s to sit closer, then you have the ones with the $'s more within your sphere of influence.

Simple and it works. She knows it; it is one thing you will never find her teaching though!!


To all, but especially- eyes wide open, guilt to guilt no more, journey through r land-

Regarding your responses to SHAME on You, and the mind control techniques-

I appreciate your comments! I appreciate feeling connected.
Thank you for your support.


or how about the sign above the doors at the registration window:
You can never fail this school, you can only quit.

(Meaning, if you quit, you have failed and are a loser)


That is a great example, Tree. Mind control often involves creating a conundrum and "You can never fail this school, you can only quit," is a great example.

What is a conundrum?
1.) a riddle whose answer is or involves a pun

2.) a question or problem having only a conjectural answer

3.) an intricate or difficult problem

So if you are listening to Judy/ramtha and you suddenly realize that your mind is drawing a blank, she may have just verbalized a conundrum.

(And no, that blank you were experiencing is not the "infinite now" - as you may have been led to believe.)

In terms of mind control, what do you think the purpose of the conundrum is?


''''That is a great example, Tree. Mind control often involves creating a conundrum and "You can never fail this school, you can only quit," is a great example.''''

as they would say, it's according to the neuronet - THEIRS.


G2G posted, "as they would say, it's according to the neuronet - THEIRS."

Oh, my !!!
It is THEIR reality. Imagine that they are bumping into folks from EMF ? How do they explain to themselves that we are ON THE SAME TIMELINE. Otherwise, we'd be unaware of one another.

It just cracks me up to speak their own language back at them and there is no answer they can have - because it's bologna.

::::::::::: waving to Tree ::::::::::Hi :::::::


Re Anne's message April 13 on this thread:
Anne said: "One thing that is undeniable is that many people that go there and do the disciplines are able to heal themselves. There are beginner students giving testimonials of healings at the end of beg events all the time. Unless these are paid actors, this is pretty astounding."

1) Testimonials prove nothing unless accompanied by proof such as doctors' reports, x-rays, etc.

2) When these testimonials are given, isn't it interesting that the students who DIDN'T heal themselves aren't invited up to speak as well? How many of those would there be? What percentage of successful vs. unsuccessful healings would there be?

3) Of course, anecdotal evidence has huge limitations. Interesting that no outside, independent, objective, science-based source has ever been allowed to conduct a study or scientific poll--given the emphasis at RSE on science.

4) Here's an idea. Why not erect a stone monument to all the people who died while they were current RSE students or staff? I'm not sure where it could be erected, but I imagine one of the churches in Yelm might volunteer a prominent spot that anyone could easily view.

Until that could be done, there could be a thread on this site listing those people. I don't see how this could offend anyone. The people I knew personally were wonderful people, and they deserve to be remembered--but I won't give any names unless the moderators think that would be appropriate.


Died from.... what? Illness brought on by being out in bad weather??...I know my mother often came back not feeling well... Of course she didn't tell me she was crawling around in mud and rain and freezing temperatures for four days... She does say "they dont' have much to eat"... and I have wondered at the sleep deprivation as that is often part of mind control...sigh.


I personally know of three people who committed suicide. One mother, one former staff member, and one whom I went to my beginning retreat with in 1988.
I personally knew the one gentleman who died in audience, and I was the only mother home during that week and had to tell a group of teenagers who were gathered at a party that one girl in particular needed to get a hold of her mother at the ranch (dreadful).
(btw-that was the straw that broke the camel's back for all those teens , now young adults, who were children of parents who attended RSE.)
I know of several who have refused to consult physicians and instead, rely on
Blue Body healing. A few have subsequently
I know several people over the course of the years that had either injuries or illness, yet had no insurance because they
had "Blue Body."
I know of one young teen who got involved with some drugs (his mother was then in RSE. The child had attended for some time as well). They found his back pack near the river and a gun nearby. They never found the teen.
Thank goodness I had insurance for my son
(through alternative sources) and one cannot predict what a child's day will be like.

On a comparative note, in my entire life "outside" RSE, only two people have died in that same time. One from a stroke, one from over indulgence of alchohol(organ failure-he was a Viet Nam vet.)


What I was referring to, Marie, was dying from long, lingering, painful illesses such as AIDS, pancreatic cancer, and spinal cancer. These people used the healing methods RSE teaches, and these methods didn't work.