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The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Google Video link....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1625632627740841175&hl=en

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

This is a great video. No question that Mafu=Ramtha. JZ has always said she is the only one to "channel" Ramtha but it is obviously not true. Ramtha exists in more than one neighborhood!

Here is the bigger question: Why hasn't JZ sued Penny Torres/Mafu?

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Cowboy...
”Why hasn't JZ sued Penny Torres/Mafu?”

Because..
Thieves of a feather… Flock together.


The Mafu camp has deteriorated into violence and drug abuse...

FactNet link,

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/26084.html?1167524929


You may also find “Carlos” entertaining..

Google link..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8392582596446539758&q=James+Randi+Carlos&hl=en

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

A Funny thing happens on the way back home... many may wonder WHY so many people FALL AWAY from a teacher.... but it does make perfect sense.

First we SEE only In PART... then we SEE the WHOLE Picture.

I have came to the conclusion that in that STATEMENT...

.........You can not have any GOD's before Me.

Simply means... as you evolve and FIND YOUR SELF... you are NO LONGER A SEEKER....

You have graduated.... then you are a FINDER...

As a FINDER.... you VIEW THESE GROUPS from a different point of view.

We can find value from our past.... as we march on.

Living outside of BEING SELF... as a finder... many CRAZY Groups come upon us ... and we are all up for being a part of the next new age thing...

Until that one day... when you finially just GET IT.
YOU SEE CLEARLY...

Some, are still at the place, where SEEING a VISION "OF SELF" in other... is the perfect place for them to study with Channels, Gurus and and Pope smile.

But, one day, just like many how have found this place, they will simply WALK AWAY... as you FIND SELF... you realize HOW GREAT THOu ARE...

What more needs to be said.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Fascinating video David. The words and mannerisms are very much the same in both Ramtha and Mafu.

Perhaps the devil operates both puppets? If "Ramtha" is supposedly an individual then why is there another that is almost the spitting image?

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

The Carlos video is a real eye opener and provides huge insight into channeling...

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

"Ramtha" says he operates the subconscious mind of JZ Knight. "Mafu" is so stunningly similar to the original presentation of "Ramtha" that it appears like a duplicate data stream impressed upon the subconscious mind.

It could be questioned then "Is "Ramtha" operating the body of Penny also? Is "Mafu" operating the body of JZ Knight. Is someone else operating both of them?

Or are both of them artificial constructs of a formula acceptable to humanity in order to "educate."
If so who created the formula? It is quite apparent that a USER operates both.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Ok... here is the story about Ramtha and Mafu... I was with BOTH in the Beginning.

Mafu said, there was a GROUP of entities... that would be me and others about 68.... who ASK OTHER QUSTIONS then just how to make more money and have more things of this world. Most of the people who I had studied with Mafu... had ALREADY saturated the NEED to make money and have more things of this world. We were asking DIFFERENT quetsions.

So Mafu came.... to explain and assist us with other LIFE QUESTIONS... that had nothing to do with MANIFESTING or making more money and having a bigger house.

Mafu would often say, if your GOAL is to only MASTER this world.... then we should LEAVE HIM... and RETURN to RAMTHA. smile.

Mafu's programs in the beginning 10 years was NOT about those things... it was more about THE MIND OF GOD.... THE THOUHTS of GOD.... where did everything come from... The state of ISHVARA.... the MIND of PURE THOUGHT... and the WORLDS that are CREATED BY REFRACTED THOUGHTS and the TOOLS to actually JUST REMEMBER to PURE THOUGHT.... and LIVE in the REAL TRUTH.

We also learned how the soul would peal away because the soul was nothing less than a computer systems that can only VOMIT OUT the past... and/or get terribly mucked up in it's attempt to resolve KARMA... THE SOUL only crated more KARMA in that process. So the REMOVAL of SEF-JUDGEMENT was a BIG Key is RE-REMEMBERING WHO YOU ARE in truth.

The journey inward vs Outward... and the LACK or the NEED to resolve KARMA... and to become at total peace with ALL ASPECT "OF SELF"... that were projected into these dense worlds... the good.. the bad and ugle......

Then we learned how to get out of our our bodies... and STUDY in other worlds....Consciously...

Yes, I have absolutely had this experience... then you get DOWNLOAD of the ANSWERS to your qestu9osn.. and you no longer NEED a TEACHER in this world. You learn to sit down ... shut up and WAIT... for the download.


Wink.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Also, Mafu revealed that HE CAME as RMATHA... becuase the HUMAN MIND... needed to understand the RIVER OF KOWLEDGE has NO PERSONALITY.... it is an ISNESS.. that can simply be ACESSED by ALL.

It was a LEAP to LISTEN to both RAMTHA and MAFU in those days... the SOUNDS of the voice was identical.

Very wierd.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Also, in that group we were encouraged to FEEL the POWER of KNOWING without PROJECTING... or REVEALING answers to other.

We spent DAYS and weeks at a time in NOBLE SILENCE.

This is why, you will find very few people who will write and talk about the early years with Mafu.

The groups now... are more a Guru Deciple projection... for those who still need that experience.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

I belive it was around 1992 or early 90's that Mafu SENT OUR GOUP AWAY... TO LIVE the wisdom.

We were told that we already KNEW more and had Ascended beyond the wisdom of both Jesus and himself when he ILLUMINATED.... we only needed to INTEGRATE the wisdom. At that point... most in the group could get OuT of their body... and STUDY in CONSCIOUSNESS and no longer in NEED of a physical teacher.

Elightenment
Ascension... you do not TAKE the human body with you... it is an ATTITUDE that can RE-CRAETE a human boady upon the call and NEED for a body.... but remain in the KNOWINGNESS of it's self as THE ONE.

Illumination ..... REMEMBERING .... and Being ALL you already are... but with the POWER and KNOWLEDGE that YOU are THE ONE.

The ONE..... was a complete study. YOU ARE... I AM... We ARE.... ALL THINGS..... The One.

Pretty simple ..... YES?

Smile.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Interesting info Seasons. I suggest you go to Factnet Ramtha page and look for "Secrets" posts before you promote Mafu.
Both Penny and Judy are in fact great actors. Penny copied Judy. Judy got ****** and stormed into Penny's event. If Ramtha were an Entity, and if Ramtha speaks directly to Judy, why didn't Ramtha just say something like "but sweetheart, I never said I was monagomous". The early 'teachings' of Judy's Ramtha were also about the power of God within, about loving self, etc. - in the early days we were taught to not be worried/pre-
occupied with material things. Manifestation came in the late '80s.
Mafu's teachings and Judy's Ramtha teachings are based on age old valid Sacred Traditions.
Which is all not to say that each of us hasn't learned and received great gifts through our experiences in our favored mind control groups - we have. Ironically, as Ramtha said in the early days - give credit to the God/Spirit/Oneness that flows within/through you. It is our own intention and consent to learn that we learn - the trick is to not attribute it to the teacher or even the situation.
My concern is that we get so carried away with 'what/who is Mafu or Ramtha' that we diminish the facts that we know - they are abusive environments. Enlightenment is Free. Every moment of our lives is teaching us loving us enlightening us. So what who or what or not Ramtha is. Who are you. Who am I. That's what matters.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

The Info that Secreats is writing about is the 2000 events of Penny.... In the VERY beginning days the those things did not happen until the late 90's.

But, all of this being said... if you are HONEST WITH SELF... enven in ALL the craziness of these TWO GROUP... I am sure you did find SOME VALUE.... in some of the information. A Light BULB did light within you.

If for no other rason but to DISCOVER that you do NOT NEED that type of teacher any longer.

The human ego and mind is very vast... and be are all projecting our TAKE on every thing.

The Ram and Mafu of the early days, was quite different.

I SEE good things and very bad things about this stuff. Perhaps that is the only POINT.

I am NOT Promoting anything ..... I belive each persoan has the RIGHT CHOOSE....

It is NONE of my business ...... but, it must also be written that in the mist of very CRAZY CRAZY STUFF... there was good too.

That is all... YOU Choose.

SMiles


Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Graced... says...So what who or what or not Ramtha is. Who are you. Who am I. That's what matters.

I would say... that There is only ONE OF US here... projecting ALL of us... debating and agreeing with self in many aspects.

The One. but ....THE ONE..... "OF SeLF"... in the many here.... does not remember "THE ONE".

So this is the confusion.

Wink.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Judy got ****** and stormed into Penny's event
------------------------------------------------

No ... this never happened.... it was the other way arond..... Penny went to Ramtha... and there was a confontation.... Penny wanted to MERGE the two and CHANGE the Us against THEM attitued that was happening.

We had many people who continued to study with BOTH for a very long time....

after the confrontation...

Around 1989 or 1990 MAFU... ASK that you choose.. which one to study with and move on.

The human mind is confused enought... trying to listen to TWO Mom's or Dad's with a difernt point of view can be very confusing.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Let's see - if life really is all this confused already, what would be the point of adding the even further craziness of a Penny or Judy into the mix? Who are they (Penny and Judy) but puppets who have allowed themselves to be taken over by out-of-body entities; for the purpose of which, we do not really know.

If "by their fruits, we can know them", these entities were not very highly evolved and they chose extremely flawed women to use to channel their messages. Maybe they are simply out-of-body egos (demons) which only want to play in human bodies. If they had a valid message, I doubt they would have to present their message in such an extreme manner. The whole process is suspect - call it Mafu or Ramtha or whatever - we do not really know what these entities are. And we can see from the casualties - they are dangerous.

I think the only safe advice to offer anyone considering joining such a group is stay clear - it really is the "wolf in sheep's clothing" we were warned about.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

The OTHER side of Penny, beyond the beatings, sex drugs and stuf... Where do you put this brilliance in the words, or can you?"

*******

You will come back, if not in this lifetime, in another.If not to me then to another, because you must know the truth,because you are God. And that you are God, you can never run away now that you have heard your calling. The calling has happened. The truth has been revealed,and the revelation inspires your soul to seek itself out as God.
The human mind is of small consequence now. "
----Mafu

" As long as God is, it will be everything it wants to be. And wisdom is harvested from experience.
To love, to see all things as God, this is why you are and only for that reason.
Be happy. "
----Mafu


" You are so funny because you are perfect and so beautiful and you think the flower is more beautiful than you. You are aged ones. You are wise ones. You are the words that the new born baby would speak if it could. You are the prayers to the Gods that you
love that have gone before you. Pray to your ancestors as Gods, for they are. Pray to your mothers who have died before you as Gods, for they are. Pray to your fathers who have died
before you as Gods, for now I tell you, they are.
The distinction between your world and mine is the
breath and the awareness that you are God. "
----Mafu


" Breathe life into the spirit of the laws you have lived by. Examine them, for they are your nations now. Do not walk away from your families or the laws you have created for yourself. Instead, one by one, take them apart and find the road inside them that allows you to stand reaching out your hand, and quietly adorning all things in your kingdom with the
blessing of its own happiness. "
----Mafu

" Concern your life with removing from the painful noise and into beautiful noise. Concern your life into moving from beautiful noise into privacy and silence and Self. And the Self will move and pervade all things that you are in this world and all others.
And you will know truth, and you will know the worship and the adoration and the love and the fellowship of your piers, and then you will trust that you are God. "
----Mafu

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Ok - so now we are promoting Mafu because there are a few good quotes among the garbage and abuse??

We still do not know what the channelled entity Mafu/ or Ramtha was or even if there was such an entity as Mafu or Ramthat because it could have just been outright fraud or insanity on the part of Judy/Penny. Maybe the good quotes are simply a plagurism of some other spiritual teacher's words.

What we do know is that both groups descended into abuse. I don't think there is anything either truly spiritual or enlightened about these gross, abusive organisations.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

I've just re-read the Mafu quotes that Brenda provided us. And they are good, aren't they? That is the sort of thing which sucked most of us in originally. We thought it was a great spiritual message but once we were drawn into the web, the trap closed - we were lured in by the sweetness of those lovely words but there was something sinister behind it. Yes, a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

What we do know is that both groups descended into abuse. I don't think there is anything either truly spiritual or enlightened about these gross, abusive organisations.


I so agree... and what does it all mean to SPEAK or PRESENT lovely words... I watched this happen to many Eastern Guru's Also like Muktananda.... SExual abuse of the young girls.

It simply PROVES again, there are NO PERFECT BEINGS... presenting their self as HIGHER than Angels or Gods.

Perhaps that is the JOKE.... GOD Is an ASS that ABUSES humanity?

Perhaps there is no such thing as PERFECTION.

and if we are ALL Gods' then that means God is ignorant of it's self and abbusive in nature.

God created us to ABUSE others... seens that is the underline message of these people.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

GOD Is an ASS that ABUSES humanity?

I heard Mafu once say that even Jehova is a Lord of AWESoME Power... and he has NEVER taken an incadrnation into the human flesh.

The stories of his destruction to humans and life in general was a story.


Perhaps the real problem is BELIEVING that in a world of light and dark we would only express and experience the LIGHT.... without the DARK the LIGHT can not be revealed.

Perhaps we need the true world of ALLOW all things.. to pass in this world... without pointing fingers and seperating it out as good or bad negative or positive... sounds good on paper but... tell the man who just lost his wife at the hands of a murderer...

Perhaps this whole thing of God being GOOD.... and not bad is a mis - understanding.

If we removed the judgement of the ABUSE that these groups tend to provide.. then, from that point of view.. we would not have this web site.

Perhaps it is OUR INDIVIDUAL problem... not the information, wisdom or behavior of the channel.. after all, they will all say, we choose to participate or not.

Perhaps coming from a different point of view, we could just allow and walk on without the need to repeat or tell about our choice of being abused by these group.

The old saying, as we point fingers at one person... 3 are pointing back at us.

We are the problem... We are the solution.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

It might be going too far to blame God for the abuses of the human ego. We are not perfect creatures but we live with free will - we can choose anything in this life from being a serial killer to being a saint - This world its like living in a workshop where everything is possible and we get to choose. But I think there are consequences to our actions. The problem with so-called spiritual organisations like Mafu and Ramtha is that they exploit the innocence of naive spiritual seekers. After a spiritual rape, it is hard to get back on track. Maybe they really are demons and the best advice is not to fight them but to avoid them.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Many people who are writing on this website about the abuses are not just doing so to be victims. We are not victims but we can set the record straight and talk about what goes on in organisations run by channels and out-of-body entities. What happens after you proceed beyond the initial pretty words? I wish I had seen a site like this earlier. We may stop others from wasting their time, their money and their spiritual quest running down a dark alley of deceit.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

The quotes of Mafu sound romantic which creates a pleasant effect. Yet if one analyzes the vocabulary for meaning one finds poetry. Beyond poetry, the sentences themselves are meaningless. But they sure do sound good.

And they are designed to attract people who lack critical thinking skills. It is called the Pied Piper effect.

A critical thinker will analyze the words in search of their practical application. No practical application = poetry.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Mafu is brilliant and it is revealed in the post hypnotic suggestions of the words. Let's take a look at the first quote-

"You will come back, if not in this lifetime, in another."
(Post hypnotic suggestion: YOU WILL COME BACK)

"If not to me then to another.
(Post hypnotic suggestion: CHOOSE ME, THE KNOWN)

"Because you must know the truth because you are God."
(Post hypnotic suggestion: This is your reason for returning - the irresistable appeal of being GOD.)

"And that you are God you can never run away now that you have heard your calling."
(Post hypnotic suggestion: If you accept that you are God you can never run away. Meaning Mafu/Ramtha controls you.) (But wait, wouldn't a God be able to run away if they wanted to?????)

"The truth has been revealed and the revelation inspires your soul to seek itself out as God."
(Post hypnotic suggestion: Your soul (which you have no proof of) is now directing your life, you are not.")

"The human mind is of small consequence now."
(Post hypnotic suggestion: Don't allow the yellow brain to question. It is not worthy.)

These suggestions WHICH APPEAR TO TELL THE LISTENER THAT S/HE IS GOD in reality strip the listener of self authority, create powerlessness and tell the listener exactly what to do.

And the proof is in the pudding. After hearing these words, did you return?

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Eyes Wide Open posted, "These suggestions WHICH APPEAR TO TELL THE LISTENER THAT S/HE IS GOD in reality strip the listener of self authority, create powerlessness and tell the listener exactly what to do."

Excellent insight, EWO - thanks for posting that !

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

After hearing these words, did you return? No... of course not.

This has been the problem with all the POETRY of the Channels... it is not USABLE in the REAL WORLD... it is great if you can live in LA LA Land forever and never be self-responsible to this world.

These are the Hooks tht GRAB the people in.

It is also very FEAR BASEd.... I heard this many time... if you do not do it in this life time you will come again... or you are 2 life times behind REAL TIME... you are RELIVING KARMA that has already been completed.

All of these SOUNDS... are hypnotic.

Once Mafu even said WE WERE BRAIN WASHED... he was just BRAIN WASHiNG US BACK towards God.

Many many good points in this post.

Thanks to all.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

No Explination to the POETRY... plus there is NO PROOF tothe poetry.

This is why when Ramtha and Mafu first came, no one could prove anything.

Case in point... the below poem...
-----------------------------------------------------

You are the prayers to the Gods that you love that have gone before you.

Pray to your ancestors as Gods, for they are. Pray to your mothers who have died before you as Gods, for they are. Pray to your fathers who have died before you as Gods, for now I tell you, they are.

The distinction between your world and mine is the
breath and the awareness that you are God. "
Mafu

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

EyesWideOpen

More Hypnotic Words.... care to explain?

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Poetry for me is like reading a fairy tail.

Look to the FRUIT of the two leaders.

Bot Penny and JZ have NOT ASCENDED... and continue to play the GAMES of the New AGE... BS.

So, they, both being the CLOSEST MEMEBER of the TRIBE... if they can't get it and MASTER their human ego stuff... with 24/7 influence of theses being...

How in this world will others... who only come to event ever get it.

They are known by the FRUIT of their works... YES????

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Brenda, I've got just a quick thought because I'm supposed to be getting ready for a trip.

You said: "Perhaps coming from a different point of view, we could just allow and walk on without the need to repeat or tell about our choice of being abused by these group."

Let's say that I was walking down a sidewalk and I fell into a hole that wasn't very visible. I climb out and continue on, and I see another person coming toward me from the opposite direction. What are my choices? I could say nothing and just let the other person manifest whether they fall into the hole or not? Or I could let them know that there's a hole just ahead. It would still be their choice to watch out for the hole or not. Maybe they wouldn't have fallen in whether I said anything or not. Maybe falling in will be some kind of valuable experience for them.

Whatever their experience is, is not for me to determine or be attached to. I simply choose to mention the possibility of falling in a hole. That is why I post here.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Edmund Burke in a letter to William Smith, Jan. 9, 1796

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

"ALL THINGS.... are good enought to be God"

Basically what both RAMTHA and MAFU PREACH and many other NEW AGES who have went to these groups... is the above statment.

It is very difficult to QUESTION behavior when this statement is the very foundation for life.... and the organization.

Think about it, this can JUSTIFY any personal behavior good or bad that you wish, and it removes all accountability for behavior.

So the money issues, the drug issues, the BEATING by the Mafu group... these behavior issues in these organizations and in the world can all be allowed... no need for prisons becuase ALL THINGS ... are good enought to be God.... and must be ALLOWED to be.

I wonder what the world would look like if no one many anyone accountable... so the murderer is allowed... the thief is allowed... no need for prisons or a court system.

What would the world look like if this was the VIBRATION... and no need for any Govt to create laws....accourding to this statement?

It is thi STATEMENT that allows us all to do as we will.

So, this mind set... WILL NOT... allow us our god given ability to KNOW right from wrong. In fact, It indicates there is NO RIGHT or WRONG just isness... Within this STATEMENT... no one dare question another.

This is why I belive so many will not look deeper at these types of groups. The very foundation that they begin on... PERMITS the BAD behavior to continue un questioned.

If you quetion, they you are a dis-sasified customer. ... YOU have the problem.

Doesn't any take these statements a APPLY them to the MASSES... and use some mental SKILL... to REALIZE... the very foundation of these groups would create a world of more VIOLENCE than what we already have.

Penny was allowed to BEAT students in the name of Self-Realization and Karma... but in any other school in the USA, if a TEACHER BEAT their students they would be in JAIL.... today, the students look the other way... and make statements like, she doesn't do it anymore, it was the drugs.

I wonder how many people in PRISON would be let free, with this type of thinking... Oh.. he doesn't murder any more... or beat his wife any more... it was the drugs... let him out of prison.

I just wonder why, the Oregon's Attorney General did not investigate this mess out there.

Perhaps when you get federal grant funding or animals, they can more easily look the other way... The Oregon Tiger Sancuary creates an UMBRELLA that it is ok what is done in PRIVATE behind closed doors.

Any other US citize would be in JAIL for the same behavior.

#####################################################

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Edmund Burke in a letter to William Smith, Jan. 9, 1796

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Great post Jackie.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Jackie,
The words of Mafu you quoted appear to be intense emotion generators. Let's take a look...

"You are the prayers of the Gods that you love that have gone before you."

Post hypnotic suggestion, "You are the prayers." This nonsensical statement is designed to create confusion which heightens suggestibility by turning off
critical thinking.
Post hypnotic suggestion, "Gods that you love."
This promotes a myth - ungrounded thinking.

"Pray to your Mothers who have died before you as Gods, for they are. Pray to your Fathers who have died before you as Gods, for they are."

This passage evokes strong internal emotion concerning the reader's relationship with their Mother and Father. It connects the parents to death, guaranteed to generate a feeling of sadness. It directs the reader to pray, suggesting that Mother and Father are inaccessible (generating more sadness and possibly guilt or remorse.) It suggests that Mother and Father died not knowing they were Gods (which leaves it up to you to become one.) The whole thing is a set-up. The goal is emotional manipulation.

"The distinction between your world and mine is the breath and the awareness that you are God."
A great put down. Mafu is God and the reader is not (recall that the reader is feeling sad right now.) Your breath and awareness tell you you are God, why don't you get it? (Because the statement is meaningless.)

The emotional effect of these passages is intense yearning, confusion, unworthiness. It is a set-up designed to make the listener/reader feel small and inclined to follow Mafu's direction. After all, s/he is so much smarter, isn't s/he??

It's all about control.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Thanks EWO...

Considering my mother tried to DESTROY me during this life time... now I am being told... that Mom the Human EOG is GOD... and it tells me... God wants me destroyed.

Note, the poem does not say the HIGHER SELF of our parent... it speaks to the word Mother and Father.

Now I am to PRAY to the destroyer to help me... like really how wierd is that?

Not everyone had a WONDERFUL Mom and Dad.

More Confusion... Does'nt any one QUESTION these word games?

Perhaps the point is to keep you so CONFUSED that you can no longer think CLEARLY about anything..

This could explain why so many would STAY while Penny was BETING THEM.... and not try to run away.

It would also explain why NO ONE... REPROTS the Drugs or behavior of the TEACHER BEATING STUDENTS to the police.

It would also explain why VERY FEW PEOPLE... will speak up about this group. You RARELY see information on any of the Cult Group boards about them.

Mafu always said, What wWould Jesus Do... What would Buddha Do.... If Penny ask that questions... I am sure the beating would stop.

Thanks for your words....

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Some of these messages prove the fact that we do indeed create our own reality.
I read that Mafu message and all I saw in there was love and the recognition that we are all part of this energy, this consciousness we call God.
I think the reason you don't see the kind of Mafu negative feedback is that Mafu students are growing with the wisdom because they are willing to live it. I suspect there are a lot of Ramtha people who do the work and are growing; but they probably don't waste their time coming to sites which complain about and degrade their wisdom or their teacher. What would be the point, if they are receiving benefit from the teachings.
This site proclaims to be one of healing; but from what I've read, I don't see much healing going on. Instead, what I'm seeing and reading is a lot of gossip, condemnation, blame -- in other words, a lot of misdirected ego keeping people in a state and path of victimhood and judgment and keeping them from growing. All you seem to be doing is reinforcing that victimhood, poor me. Why not let go of this chapter in your life, pat yourself on the back for making what you think are better choices by leaving that teacher and go on in joy and empowerment.
Suffering is pain your refuse to let go. You may ask yourselves what you gain by this. It is an identity for sure; but is it really how you want to see yourselves and how you want to live your spiritual lives?
In any classroom or learning centers, there are those who tend to take what resonates with them and run with it. And then there are those who get high listening to the wisdom but never put the time in on the rock pile working on taming their egos, doing the practices, following the guidance, etc. I've seen this in many groups, both spiritual and practical.
These are purely my observations. I'm not here to debate, nor will I respond to replies.
If any of this resonates with you and you think you can grow with it, fine. If not, just forget about it and continue as you have.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

"I'm not here to debate, nor will I respond to replies" .... Oh But you already have.

When you give a present to others... FIRST it is for SELF..... and secondly, I can purchase my own gifts... and do NOT need your help.

First, it is NOT the rosey picture that you wish to make... I know at least 5 EX-MAFU Students that are living OFF of normal people WAITING to be called back to the Ranch... and they are usless... No Job... No Money... just using others who are STILL working hard to make their ends meet.

Secondly, I am very successful in my personal life... and WAS PRIOR to MAFU or RAMTHA.... and have personally give over 50,000.00 this year to help others.

Thridly, THE PROOF is by the WORKS o the CHANNEL herself.... after 24 / 7 days a week with MAfu.. her claim to fame is BEATING STUDENTS and using drugs.

No thank you... I care NOT to participae.






"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Edmund Burke in a letter to William Smith, Jan. 9, 1796
Email: jackie@minister.com

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

I am sure the many STUDENTS that Penny BEAT... with scars still showing.... would love to read your post about how they CREATED their REALITY of being BEAT by Penny in her DRUG induced rages..

Ask Doreen or her daughter what they think about this.... creating their own reality.

You know them I am sure.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

This site is not really about life after RSE or about healing. It is about disempowering people by convincing them that they really are not responsible for their lives and that they are not able to create their personal reality.

I think one of the reasons people come here is for community. I am certain if another discussion board was started that didn't have the above agenda but allowed for free discussion many of the posters on this board would join. I know I would join.

I enjoyed your post Bodhi and it did help me tremendously. Time for me to move on to better things

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Bodhi, You said... I read that Mafu message and all I saw in there was love and the recognition that we are all part of this energy, this consciousness we call God.

So What... you can read this messages billions of times on the internet today... unless you can BACK IT UP with the POWER to CREATE or DESTROY... it is meaningless to you... and we ALL have the POWER of BOTH within us.

The works of these two groups has only created good mental games players... and people like yourself who COME HERE in your ARROGANCE of BEING ABOVE It all....

Reading a BOOK.... or HEARING BEAUTIFUL words.... does NOT cook the Rice.

It is EASY to be a MASTER....sitting on a mountain top... but come down the mountain and play in the city and you will find... a different point of view...

I love the MOUNTAIN TOP... and can go there and sit anytime I wish... WHERE EVER I AM.... I don't NEED to go to an Ashram in Oregon to be THERE.... I AM .... ALREADY...

....and today, we come here together to PICK UP the pieces of the lives that have been destroyed in the NAME of MAFU and RAMTHA.... and the Ascension of those who have gone to the top.. and simply forget about the valley.

People on the mountain top, DO NOT CARE... they have their MOUNTAIN and care less about the destruction in the valley that they CREATED in the process of their Ascesnion.

Go Back to your MOUNTAIN and stop throwing STONES at the ones who YOUR COMMUNITY has long forgot about... and like yourself...no longer care.

There must be someone here that has enought love and compassion to wipe the TEARS and help the ones YOU have Long forgot about in your Happiness of the death of the ones that your Ascension has left behind.

People who come here... do CARE.. about the Valley people... and are willing to help. This is called Love.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Well, again, I am not at all surprised by the vast array of perspectives.
I was introduced to this site a little over 10 days ago.
I came here originally to post an experience and also take in other perspectives and information that I did not know existed.
Thus far, I have not really seen anyone whining about being a victim. People are sharing what their experience is/was.
And for the most part, most people are sincerely looking into self growth, and everyone is doing it in the way they see fit for themselves. Every one does and sais things because they think it is sane.
(Although it might look quite odd to someone else with a different view).
I also see a few indoctrinates being quite vicious and pointing a finger. That is pretty nauseating, but can be expected since we are in the age of the World Wide Web and especially with the subject matter concerning cohersive subjegation; people are at various stages in regards to their past participation, and I feel it would quite more humane to practice compassion.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Bodhi,
"Suffering is pain you refuse to let go of."

That is a line and that is all it is. Would you say it to a parent who just lost their child? Would you say it to a woman raped? Would you say it to a soldier arriving at a massacre?

"Suffering is pain you refuse to let go of," is called dogma. Something one has been told to memorize and repeat whether it makes any sense or not.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

That is not someone else's wisdom. It is my own. Of course people need to be consoled when they are in pain; and people need to grieve for their losses; but with all things there is a time to grieve and a time to heal and go for life and living.
It certainly doesn't mean that one forgets; but at some point life must go on and joy must be found again.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Ok Bodhi, This ALL SOUNDS so good... but application not words make it true.

Like many people here, I can send you a few runners to see if you KNOW this is true... and in 3 months you come back and tell us how easy it is to move back to joy after the 3 events.

Smiles.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Whatever, I have used this wisdom very well in my life.
I take responsibility for all I have drawn to me either karmically or through my thought patterns. My way of handling life is to feel what comes up in my day and let it go and consciously choose look for whatever joy is around me; and there's always joy to be found for the looking.
Life happens and it's how we respond to life's events which creates our reality in that moment.
I certainly feel pain when that comes up but feeling pain and choosing to hold on to it longer than needed is another thing.

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

bodhi,

May i suggest you take your spiritual superiority complex somewhere else!!! Thanks

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Oh yes Anne, it would be wonderful if you did move on to whereever..... i don't think you will be missed at all

Re: The Penny Torres Ramtha clone Mafu Video link....

Is it me.. or does this one sound like double talk?
???????????????????????????????????????????????????

One day whether you look and see, or do not look, your body must go to the field and become flowers and baby birds and deer and barking wild dogs. And if you want what is inside your body that will leave it, the magic of what you are, if you want that magic, open eyes, you must look at the powers. You must make the dreams. You must find the purpose away, aside from the conditioned purpose.

You must understand the powers. And wrap it all up with patience and compassion and peace, and happiness and joy, love, with the Self of privacy.

You must reach to the Beloved, the Guru, as I reach for you, and journey together, in the oceans, in the mountains,in the fires, and the winds, or the flight of the heavens.

If you wait until the flight of the heavens to know me, and to know you, then the journey of the earths will have been without each other.

And the journey of the heavens will be as it has been. "