Housekeeping: As is posted on the EMF Message Board page, this forum is for support, sharing opinions and experiences for those who have left RSE and have doubts and concerns about their tenure there. It is NOT a place for proselytizing for RSE, JZK Inc or Ramtha. Play nicely or your post will be sent to cyberspace time-out for all eternity. The disclaimer for EMF is located on this page http://enlightenmefree.com/disclaimer.html and all posters agree to the terms of the disclaimer. Be sure you've read it before posting.
You may also want to visit a complementary forum at FACTNet http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/779.html
If you wish to use a Spell Checker, you may wish to use this free one: http://www.jacuba.com/
How I came about the chapter from a book (I’ve read) called ‘The Children Of the Law of One, is not that important. What is important is the chapter on ‘Ascended Masters and Channeling,’ so to be emancipated from following channeled entities, and to release the shame, once realizing you’ve been duped. This is quite long (so forgive me for that, but I know you will be appreciate the contents). I ask you to read this because it certainly shines a whole new light on Ascended Masters and Channeling, and about, the deception ‘sometimes’ involved. Once you’ve read this (and those of you who like to observe this site), I think you’ll realized that the only channel and guide you need ever listen to, is your very own ‘Inner Being.’ But many have been told this many times.
And being that no one is really to blame for the choices each person makes, keep in mind that a choice was made to follow a disincarnated being, and another choice was made to question its’ validity. We do get what we ask for when we give up the power of our own Inner Universal Source.
pgs 222-228, from the book: “The Children of the Law of One”
Wisdom, a true teacher by the name of ‘Zain’ as teaches his pupil ‘Peniel’ about Ascended Masters and Channels.’
"“You know, in the old days, an oracle was often an actual person. Now they call them mediums or channelers. But whatever you call it, the motivation to channel, or go to a channeler, is the same. And it is self-defeating. It comes from a subconscious
and conscious belief, that YOUR own soul, YOUR own Inner Being, is not so great - or at least not as great as the oracle, or the person who is being channeled and listened to. That weakens your own contact with your Inner Being. Your own real contact with God. And every time you do it, that belief is reinforced. It also reinforces the belief that you must get the information from someone or something
else - but the process does not do anything to directly change you in a way that will really put you in touch with your own Inner Being, or make the change in which YOU become a vehicle for manifesting YOUR own Inner Being/God, in your life, all the time. This belief, which is being reinforced, thus affects your programming, and keeps you spiritually chasing your tail, and continually limits your
You should not place such limitations on your outlook
about yourself young son, about your own spiritual greatness, or you will not grow to manifest God. But those limitations are only what you self-impose, only what you believe, and how you act. Regardless of whether or not you have developed, or manifested, your own being, it is still the Great One. The Inner Being is God, is Universal Consciousness, and is thus the highest possible awareness and source of information that can be “channeled”. And remember, all Inner Beings are One. Period. Your Inner Being is every bit the same as the likes of Buddha, St. Germain, etc.. You have no idea yet. But your potential is every bit as Great. The only difference
is that the Great Saints and Sages chose to manifest their Inner Being. Did you ever hear of Jesus or St. Germain channeling someone else? Why not?
Because they didn’t do it, and likewise, they don’t allow themselves to be channeled
[we will explain the reasons for that later]. They chose the traditional path, and learning from living masters, as have you. They chose that instead of channeling information from other beings, or consulting channeled information. Just think
about it honestly. And remember, your own soul is better than the many disincarnate lower astral beings that may want to possess a human, and are being channeled.
It’s just up to you to manifest your Inner Being.”
Here is another of the *****s in channeling’s armor: have you noticed that channeling other beings, including the “channeling” of “ascended masters”, often seems to bring forth not just the Inner Being, but the INDIVIDUAL SELF, and the PERSONALITY, of the channeled being? So even if it is real, the information is filtered through the being’s personality and self, and then it filters through the self of the channeler, and then finally through the self of the listener, who further filters the
information through their own self’s programming. AT BEST then, by the time your self is done with getting the information, it’s highly unlikely to be anything that will directly or truly threaten the selfish separate self - and that is what the spiritual
path is all about - the death, surrendering, and rebirth of the separate self as a servant
to the Universal Will. That is the key to true change, to becoming what you really are, to manifesting your Inner Being/God. Good “information” and knowledge will not do it for you, regardless of how good that information is. And for the
information you really need, why use channeling when you can access untainted information from the highest source, YOUR own Inner Being. YOU are a great soul. Yes, you. Again, channeling doesn’t put you through the changes that having a true teacher does - the kind of changes that will make you ONE with your
Inner Being, ONE with the ascended masters, ONE with God.
Some people are under the assumption that some of the great psychics of history were “channelers”. But with extremely rare exception, such psychics, if they
were of the light, only channeled their own Inner Being, or Higher Self. And they too, often warned against letting other entities come through you, or misguide you - and of the dangers and damage such possession poses. The greatest of such psychics,
were in fact, Children of the Law of One (even some who were not consciously aware of it), and were actually in the service of the One, and the grand master.
These psychics used the incredible well spring of their Inner Being, to tap into what is called the “Akashic Records”. Such activity and abilities were all from their own Inner Being, operating under the Oneness and service of Universal Will, not
by going to channelers, or channeling disincarnate entities (with very, very rare exceptions necessitated and controlled by the hierarchy).
The person who wants to become a true teacher, and work consciously and directly with spiritual seekers, must also strive to integrate the Inner Being, with the conscious, and subconscious mind, and manifest it in their life, through body and mind. Thus the Inner Being, God, and the self, all consciously and subconsciously correspond. When this finally occurs, there is not conflict, or walls, between, the
conscious mind, the subconscious mind, and the Inner Being/Universal Consciousness. Thus there is also harmony between the conscious beliefs, subconscious
programming, and Universal Truths.
The ancient teachings of Atlantis, as well as the more modern ones of the Atlantean Children of the Law of One, all warn of the risks associated with possession, which are great indeed. Most people don’t think about channeling this way, but the truth is, channeling is just a nice word for possession, and people need to keep this in mind, and keep in mind the possible perils. In a spiritual and astral
sense, possession is like being raped. The being who is channeled comes from the astral realms, and when another being possesses someone else’s body and mind, it damages the host’s astral body, astral defenses, and actually weakens the strength
of Will, much in the same way that allowing yourself to be hypnotized weakens the Will (that doesn’t apply to self-hypnosis, or hypnosis by a totally trusted mate or spiritual associate). And every time you do such a thing, you weaken your own will.
And you subject yourself to damage - spiritually, emotionally, mentally, and physically.
You get “holes” in your circumvent force and auras - and dark creatures can attach themselves like astral leeches. Again, the fact is that channeling is a very nice euphemism for possession - and no matter what good words come through during a channeling, you don’t know who is really doing the possessing, which means you can’t be sure of the motives behind it and thus you can’t really depend on the information.
And it’s one thing to listen to good words, uplifting messages, etc., but honestly, aren’t there plenty of other sources to get such things without possession
being involved, and without subsequently taking the unnecessary risks involved? You know there are. But these are strange times, and instead of running to the
nearest exorcist when someone is possessed, people often pay money to listen to someone who’s possessed, or try to become possessed themselves. How many
people would be as interested in channeling as they are, if it was called what it really is, “possession”, instead of using the euphemism “channeling”? “Hey, we bought tickets to a seminar tonight so we can listen to some disincarnate entity who is possessing the body and mind of a young woman, and learn how to let someone possess us too!” It doesn’t sound quite as nice as going to a “channeling seminar” any more, don’t you think?
If channeling has had a good place in your life, fine. But it may be time to grow further. Just reading this is placing greater responsibility on you becoming more spiritually mature.
A True teacher knows all this, and instead of channeling, he gets the separate self out of the way, and manifests the Inner Being. And a true teacher is there as a tool for you to develop, access, and manifest YOUR own Inner Being. What could be higher, more pure, and safer than channeling/manifesting your own Inner Being? And it is likely that you who are reading this, should be a true teacher yourself
someday. God only knows, there is certainly a need for more, and in the future the need will be even far, far greater. But you won’t become a true teacher by merely listening to spiritual information, good or bad.
Here are some final words from my discussion with Zain about mediums and channeling (possession):
“Now possession would be one thing if the only beings that would possess a body, were high consciousness, saints or the like. But there are many beings
dwelling in the lower astral realms, that cannot get a body, and want one badly. And even if they are not using an attractive disguise and lies to get themselves ‘invited in’ to a body by a voluntary medium, they will work on getting through other
people - those who have weak astral defenses. Some of these astral realm dwellers are the spirits of disturbed humans who are between lives. Some are insane. Some are mass murderers, torturers and cruel rapist warriors. And these deceitful degenerate
entities lie, easily and well, and are happy to make up a good story too. Then there are disincarnate demons also. All the ancient teachings, including those of the Children and their branches, tell us to avoid possession/channeling, and not to
possess/be channeled, once ascended or between lives. And if you consider it thoroughly, it’s not hard to figure out that real ascended masters don’t want to be channeled. Think about it. Put yourself in an ascended master’s sandals for a moment.
You have worked hard on Earth, suffered greatly, paid your dues and then some. You have finally earned, and chosen, leaving this painful place, to exist on higher paradisiacal planes. You live and work in new
ways on new planes. You know there are other masters on Earth to take care of the needs of the spiritual seekers, and they are as in touch with the Inner Being as you, but they can do a better job for those on Earth, because they are still on Earth in the Flesh. You know you can’t tell anyone on Earth anything that isn’t already there for them to hear, or
that they can’t get from a living master. And these living masters are already guided by you and your kin - they can answer any question and give any guidance anyone could possibly need on the Earth.
If that was you who had finally decided to go on, would you want to have to go back to the Earth plane into a body and possess someone when there is no need because they are being taken care of already? Why would you? In fact, when you look at it objectively,
and you understand all that I just said, wouldn’t an ascended master that just had to throw in their own two cents by possessing someone, be a little bit ‘egoed out’ or ‘off’? Leave them be - ascended masters have chosen to leave the Earth plane, and are working on totally different levels and realms - and they don’t want to deal directly with any beings here anymore, other than their hierarchical linked
masters. And they know it is not necessary for them to do so, because they know there are masters on Earth who are in the proper place - the true teachers that have chosen that duty, and have the proper and full ability to deal with those who really
want spiritual help and information.”
So if you are channeling or listening to someone who is - think carefully about who or what is really being “channeled” - regardless of who or what they claim to be. Here is an excellent example:
Let’s say you need a heart operation. You need a surgeon. You find a stranger along the side of the road who claims to have been the great and powerful royal surgeon for the court of Cleopatra, and who also claims to have all the knowledge and skills of modern medicine. Would you invite them to open up your body and fix your heart, even though they had no way to prove their claims and you had no
way to check their references?
Would you even listen to their information on how to do it yourself, or ask them to guide your surgeon? Seriously, would you do such a thing? Of course not. Nor would you even hire someone to work at a convenience store, or rent someone a house so casually. Well, your body is a house of sorts, and your mind builds and directs your life. And when someone “channels”, they are letting some disincarnate stranger, something truly unknown, enter them through the astral realms, access and use/take over their very body and mind to
one extent or another - all without even an interview, or checking on references.
And when listening to channeled information, considering the truly unknown source, shouldn’t it be listened to cautiously, rather than reverently? Please think seriously about this. I have heard many people talk about channeled information
like GOSPEL, simply because it was claimed to have been channeled. They don’t have an ounce of doubt or caution about the information - because it was channeled. It should be the other way around. Too many people who are cautious enough to not give even a clean-cut hitchhiker a ride in their car, will gladly let some strange astral entity that wants to possess a living human, take a ride in their very
body and mind, or listen to the words of a strange astral entity, as if they were from
a well-known and respected holy man. Does that really make sense? Not to me. And it shouldn’t to you.
The teachings in this chapter have shone new light on channeling, and revealed serious problems with it. If you have used channeling before and liked it,
as many have, your ego will have something at stake here, as does your selfish separate self, and accepting these truths may be a little upsetting. You may even “blow me off” at this point. But so it goes with truth and threats to the self. It had to be
said. But please, really think it all over, and re-evaluate your opinions with an open mind. Discovering new truths that allow you to grow more and go further on your path is a good thing. We all must first let go of one shore, in order to cross over to another.
From Mother Sheba:
“Even from the days before Egypt, the teachings of the Atlantean Children of the Law of One regarding channeling have been simple, and clear as the light: only your own Inner Being should be allowed to possess your body and mind. And that means manifesting God. Your Inner Being is the Christ, thus it is ‘Christ Consciousness’, God, the Universal Spirit. It should be integrated and lived, not
just trance channeled. Why channel anything else or anybody, when you can be One with and manifest the Universal Spirit itself - your own part of God? What
more could you possibly want to channel? What more information could you need to get, than what you can get from the Absolute? What could you possibly want,
that you can’t get from the Universal Spirit? What clearer, or better source of information could you have?”
Vishnu, another Adept Initiate, had this to say:
“If a teacher/master/guru or whomever, is legitimate, they are One with and manifesting their Inner Being/Universal Consciousness/God. Thus, True teachers
only manifest their own Inner Being (God). In fact, you could say their very essence, their very life, everything about them, IS, in a sense, a constant living ‘channeling’ of God. Thus, they have no desire, or need, to channel anything or anybody else.
Think about it for a moment - what would God need to channel? Whereas the
channeling of anything or anybody else, must have consciousness limitations - and
there could possibly be tainted motives, even if it is a true channeling.”
Finally, channeling can be very profitable, and a great ego-trip. A channeler can be a total fake. Many are. I know some of you think you would know if you
were being conned by a channeling con-artist, but it can be very difficult to tell. The fact is, it is a con-artist’s entire job to be totally believable - their job depends on it. That is how they make their living. Believability, and getting someone to trust
them is the con man’s only skill. Other than being very in touch with your own Inner Voice, you can easily “buy into” a con. It’s only a bad con job that you can really detect. If people could really tell when they were being conned, there wouldn’t
be so many cons around, in so many different forms.
In summary, channeling anything, or any being other than your own Inner Being, can only be of lesser vibration at best, so why run the risks? Why risk listening to a channeler, or letting these astral entities channel through you, when you
can be in touch with your own Inner Being?
Nothing can be pure until the vessel is pure. You, or your channeler would need to be an enlightened being for the channeling to be totally accurate, and if that
is the case, you don’t need channeling any more because you already have the information
you need! Thus, entities from the higher realms, and those of the hierarchy will not channel through anyone. Ascended masters did not channel other
entities when they were alive, and they certainly aren’t going to do it through someone else now that they are gone - they know the realities of such things, and they know that you should follow the same path as they did - they want you to achieve Universal Consciousness yourself by going through the proper “channels” - they know you need an “in the flesh” master/true teacher who can inspire you,
break through your selfish separate self’s illusions and blocks, and put you in touch with your own Inner Being, so you can manifest the part of you that is God
Consciousness. So, if you are not yet manifesting your own Inner Being, find a true teacher that directly represents your Inner Being, in thought, action, and word, and who can help put you directly in touch with it also.
One time I asked Zain about why someone would even do channeling in the first place, considering the better options for getting information. “Channeling, using a channel for spiritual information, or following ascended masters, is far easier than going through the changes that are necessary to achieve
true spiritual enlightenment. Yet it allows people to feel like they are doing something spiritually (learning, teaching, making spiritual progress in some way). And this can be true during certain periods of a person’s spiritual path. There may also
be some good spiritual information coming out of it, which reinforces this feeling.
The separate self is happy to support this activity, and let you feel “spiritual”, as long as you don’t go any further and do something that threatens its power and position. That’s because while you are feeling spiritually “pacified”, you are simultaneously
avoiding a real teacher - thus avoiding the “separate illusion busting” and “ego busting” of the separate self that it absolutely needs if you are to gain your own real spiritual consciousness - Universal Consciousness! What an ingenious deception!
Thus, it fools many people, and becomes a major diversion, a side-trip trap. But we must live and learn.” Again, the true reason behind why most people do channeling or follow the ascended masters may not even be what they think it is - to be spiritual or to get real spiritual information. It is part of an elaborate trick of the separate self,
designed to keep itself in control of your life, rather than letting your Inner Being get control. Be a true channeler - change, transcend the selfish separate self, and begin to channel your INner Being."
Now instead of being upset and angered with JZ/Ramtha (if you feel let down and duped), what is best is to send waves of love and “thank-you,” for showing what happens when straying from your own Inner-Being in search of an outer ‘quick-fix.’ That’s forgiveness in its purest, and taking responsibility for a choice you made: nothing is no more powerful, then the power, you gave/give to it. This includes religion in its most limiting aspect too.
Welcome IUB …
Thank you for a very illuminating new thread…
You touched upon the subject of shame…
The fear of failure and facing the “shame”… was a major challenge for me to walk away from my RSE delusions.. There was a terrible foreboding of abandonment, not only of letting myself down…. But also.. Letting my spiritual family down.
To face the possibility that all those years of “spiritual disciplines” and dedication would be wasted?
. Yet..Nothing.. and I mean nothing could be further from the truth.
Not only is there a life after RSE…There is a flight after RSE…
but taking flight can be scary and unpredictable,
Yet.. this is the space our spirit dwells in..
where the freedom.. and the love we are wishing to give and receive resides.
For many.. it took great courage to join RSE, and a leap of “faith”?.
Now.. it will take an even greater courage to leave and for some....... to face their demons.
Within RSE I allowed myself to be caged, and to be abused..
I also abused others.. all in the name of spiritual enlightenment.
The subject of what is “Ramtha” Dark Angel, Satan, Devil or Demon? is beginning to surface on this forum..
The thread “Question for Joe Szimhart” is a good place to explore these dark waters…
May the light we are seeking shines from our own hearts..
To illuminate our way through these “seemingly” dark times…
I have heard Ramtha refer to himself as a "Dark Lord, indeed." He also said at that time, that we are lucky that this is his home planet and he has a fondness for it.
He said that in the last couple of years, as I recall.
Thank you David, and keep in mind that you've not let anyone down, not even yourself. Again, a reminder of knowing that no one outside yourself know you better then your Inner True Self and, it never judged nor will ever leave you: even while one may take a journey to other lushes waters. Your experience was an experience and, an awakening. But be mindful of the names (how ever unsavory) you may attach to ramtha because that only empowers what you want to move on from. No harm done; just a choice(s) made and the enlightment that followed. Still the quantam law (Universal) is: whatever you and however you judge an experience, is eventually what it becomes to you.
And as far as anyone feeling robbed about losing money: well, just know there's always plenty more where that came from.
I have just been reading thru the threads on the site. The description here of the whole channelling/possession phenomenen could explain some of the changes in the Ramtha message over the years.
JZ had given herself over to a discarnate entity and opened herself up to a whole range of astral entities. There could well have been several different entities in her body over the years. It might also explain why she seems to have deteriorated herself physically and mentally. So sometimes she's faked it when no spirit turned up but it is very possible that some of the most abusive incidents were very dangerous entities. The abusive, the drunken, swearing Ramtha could well have been a form of demon or maybe even more than one.
I think what went wrong for many of us was that we were so naive. We thought because there was some spirit from the unseen world, it had to be of a higher consciousness than us. And the truth is that we often can't make rational judgements about the people we see right in front of us, so how can we know the intent of something unseen.
And if Ramtha is a god, why would he need another body anyway. He claimed that he ascended with his own body. Why couldn't he have just come back in it if he was so powerful. And why didn't I ask that question before?
And then we got all caught up in the disciplines and thinking we could bi-locate and find the void, and find our cards - and none of that is actually a spiritual pursuit at all. There is no love involved in the RSE. There is nothing spiritual there. It is just a long, dark tunnel in the opposite direction from God or Enlightenment.
We live in a 3 dimensional world and cannot prove just who is pulling the strings on the puppet. I will never trust an unseen being again. If they are a teacher SHOW ME sufficient evidence that I can ascertain that they are who they say they are and that they know what they are talking about.
I agree with Mariette. RSE is long dark tunnel in the opposite direction.
Regarding the dispute among ex-members that JZ was connected to a "real" Ramtha in the beginning as opposed to faking it or other "entities" after 1987.
Here is an excerpt of a paper I wrote 15 years ago:
" ...Ramtha's cult was conceived in the late nineteen seventies by a middle-aged, California housewife, then Judith Zebra Burnett, a.k.a. JZ Knight. Born Judith Hampton in Artesia, New Mexico, she grew up with a curious mix of influences, both tragic and sublime. According to her autobiography, A State of Mind, My Story (1987) she grew up in a dysfunctional family with an abusive, alcoholic father but a sturdy mother, rugged older brothers and a sister. She reported that she was "brutally raped" by a drunken uncle at age four. An unsophisticated, fundamentalist style of Christian religion influenced her ideas of God but as a young adult she rejected the notion of Satan. She was popular in high school, voted "most beautiful," and was once a rodeo queen.
According to her, JZ was disgusted by her first spouse after marrying him out of "need." She had two sons by him, Brandy and Chris. During this period she reports paranormal experiences: seeing UFO's, hearing accurate predictions in her life by a fortune teller, and being miraculously healed by a revivalist preacher. Her friends have reported that she was "possessed" temporarily at prayer meetings by an entity speaking through her called “Demias.” JZ denied the event during a “20/20” TV show interview.
Later she was successful at marketing, creating two corporations in cable TV. She met and married a dentist, Mark Burnett (perhaps Jeremy Wilder in her autobiography A State of Mind) in Tacoma, Washington in 1977. He shared her paranormal interests including a compulsive fascination with “pyramid power.” It was while they were playing with cardboard pyramids in 1977 that Ramtha appeared to JZ as an alternate personality.
Burnett claimed he did not see an entity, rather he saw JZ's altered personality reacting to him or something as “Ramtha” (Stearn 120). He subsequently became more obsessed with JZ's Ramtha personality believing it to be an autonomous spirit. JZ claims that she saw an eight foot tall, semi-transparent entity dressed in white robes of light with deep, dark eyes when Ramtha "appeared." JZ later divorced after she began an affair with Jeff Knight, her much younger third or fourth husband—Jeff told me he may have been the fourth—in 1980. Although Ramtha proclaimed JZ and Jeff to be "soul mates" they too were divorced by the late 1980s. The question remains whether Ramtha is merely JZ altered and exaggerated or something else.
In 1991 Jeff Knight contacted me after he read a critique of Ramtha I had written in 1985. Subsequently, I went to visit him and interviewed him while helping him to recover from his cult experience of ten years."
(I quote from Jess Stearn. 1985. "Soul Mates" re whether Burnett ever "saw" Ramtha. In an early (1984) taped interview, Judy says that Burnett did see the apparition.)
My point is that all we have is a claim and a personal experience. Very thin evidence for a devotee to commit so much money, time, and faith to a 35,000 year old spirit.
The following is an extract from the same book about "Possible Signs of a False Teacher". It's amazing how JZ and her imaginary friend with the ® in the name ARE BREAKING EVERY RULE IN THIS LIST!
1. Charging money.
Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is that there are people out there who claim to be teachers, guides, gurus, channelers, or whatever, who are actually just con artists who are in it for the ego trip, for money, power, or all of the above. I’m not talking about psychic readers, therapists, seminar or lecture givers who do a limited specific service for a fee (whether legitimate or not). I’m talking about those who claim to be teachers, and say they want to help free you from your pain, your bonds, and transform your life spiritually, or give you important spiritual knowledge - and put a price on it. There is NO WAY a truly compassionate being could put a price on this. Could you think of a justification to deny peace of mind, and attaining enlightenment because of money? It is one thing if there are truly allowances to provide free spiritual aid for anyone who really has no financial capability, but in general, if someone is putting a price on such services, they don’t really care about others. How could they??? And if they don’t really care, can they be someone who can really help you spiritually? Obviously not. Traditionally, while true teachers don’t take money for their teaching, they do expect a dedicated monk, or full-time student to give up all their possessions - even if it is nothing. Generally people want to support the path they believe in, and put their possessions at the disposal of their teacher. This can be as little as a whistle, a bowl of rice, a bike, or as much as an estate or multi-national corporation. Or in my case with my teacher, nothing. But as has been said, it is easier for a rich man to get to heaven than for a cigarette to get through the eye of a needle. So most students usually have little or nothing anyway, because it's too hard for people with big bucks to give anything up (although it has been known to happen). It is fine to support teachers. In fact, it is a spiritual obligation, and a tradition as old as time. In some parts of Asia, monks line up to be given food from the townspeople, who are also poor. But the townspeople still support the monks - those who have given up all else to devote their lives to finding, or serving, God, and thus spiritually serving the people. Many cultures not only provide food, but work, furniture, or whatever they have to offer. So it is fine to offer or give teachers what you can, even money and such possessions in this modern world, but a true teacher doesn’t expect it, demand it, or require it, and nothing will be different between you regardless. A true teacher doesn’t charge, or expect to get anything materially from his work, period. He knows that the Universal Spirit takes care of its servants. A true teacher will work with you as long as you truly and totally ded-icate your life to becoming an instrument of Universal Will. If you are truly sincere in this yourself, you will give everything you have to your teacher. But again, it is not expected, and I have seen it done otherwise myself. But what if you have nothing to give, as in my case? No one cares, if they are legitimate. On the other hand, if you have a lot to give, and you don’t want to, it shows how sincere you aren’t - and how much selfishness and greed has a hold on you. But again, I have seen it done, and wealthy students accepted, even though their selfish greed still has hold over them. But what can you expect when all students are still under control of their selfish separate selves. When that is still in control, it’s easy to give nothing if you have nothing to give, but hard if you do. “Tithing” for community, or “church” activities to help others, is an entirely different issue, involving householder type situations, and fine if you agree with the work that is being done, or the support being given, with those funds. A student who becomes a monk, generally gives up everything when they join a traditional order, whether it is to the order, or to a more needy cause. But if they have nothing, it makes no difference.
2. Telling you (or others telling you) to do anything the teacher says, regardless of what it is.
Because a true teacher has transcended their separate self and ego, they have no need or desire to be “right”, or to “control” you. Most importantly, he is very concerned that you are not controlled by anyone else, whether it is him, someone else, or your selfish separate self. He will point out the truth to you, urge you to give control of yourself to your Inner Being, and do what you know is right - but only what you know is right. A true teacher will be the first to tell you that if he ever tells you something that is truly contrary to the dictates of your Inner Voice, something is wrong, and do not listen to it - and run, don’t walk, to the nearest exit. Just make sure it isn’t the voice of your separate self that is trying to throw you off course.
3. The teacher pursues students.
True teachers are here to serve you, but it is not a pleasant task. They neither like having students/followers, nor personally want them, but they will accept them if it is the Will of God, and the student really wants to change. But they also know that only those who really want to change, and really want the teacher to dispel their illusions, are up to the great task of changing. A true teacher may “show up” in your life if you are praying for that, but even then, if you want a true teacher, you will have to pursue the teacher, indicate or prove your readiness and dedication, and specifically ask him to be your teacher.
4. The teacher stresses “self”, boosts your ego, or tells you of the great things your self can accomplish, or abilities and power your self can attain.
The true teacher is not there to reinforce or “empower” your self. The true teacher is there to help you de-throne the separate self, and “crown” your Inner Self as your new lord. He may tell you of what you will selflessly be able to accomplish, when you change, but all abilities and powers are attributed to surrendering to, and being in the service of, God.
5. Promises of wealth or success.
The true teacher will not tell you that following their teachings will make you more successful, wealthy, or that you will benefit in any material way as a result of spiritual growth. The true teacher will tell you that there are only three benefits, none of which you can take to the bank: a) The peace of mind that comes from making your separate self your servant instead of your master. b) The joy that comes from helping others. c) Real freedom.
6. They push their dogma.
A true teacher has no need to make other people accept that their teachings are true and should be followed. They know that people will not “see” until they are ready, and also know that truth is truth, and those who are ready will come to the same conclusions in time.
7. The teachings are like a political rally - based in emotion and contrived “issues” that work on the group’s popular sentiment, or they make a “show” of spirituality.
Many false teachers control people via charisma and rhetoric. A true teacher is charismatic, intense, and inspirational - but the words will always have reason, purpose, meaning, and be based in simple truths and Unselfish Love. Clearly defining this for you is difficult. You need to “feel” enough of your Inner Voice, to know the difference. For instance, I once went to a lecture by a “famous” guru from India. One of the things that told me something was false about this person, was that he was “blessing” people with an Ostrich feather - supposedly sending energy through it. Why did he need a feather, let alone the fancy Ostrich feather? It was purposeless, other than being an “impressive” show. And it did make for a great “spiritual show”, which distracted from the lack of real spirituality. But the first thing that really made my “Inner alarms” go off, and told me something was wrong, was that they made the men sit on one side of the auditorium, and the women on the other, even couples. What for? If it is a celibate path, that’s fine. If you are a follower or student of such a path, and those were your beliefs, fine, they aren’t really harmful to anyone. But it was a public lecture for the masses. And it’s not like people were “making out” or having sex in the aisles, “offending” the guru (who shouldn’t be offendable if he were for real anyway). The interaction between the polarities (sexes) is the foundation of life and creation throughout the Universe, not just human life. Mandatorily dividing the sexes at a public lecture, even if it was to “minimize distractions” was absurd, overly controlling, and it was overriding my free will and all others there who wanted to sit with their spouses, dates, or soulmates, without even a really good reason - it was thus very “wrong” in the sense of “false”, and being against the flow of the Universe. It was nothing but a power trip, perhaps based in Indian culture, but ridiculous, and a power trip nonetheless. A true teacher may still have trappings of their culture, but they have transcended the limitations and falsehoods of their culture, and hold Unselfish Love above all else, including their own tradition. Like I said, deep down in my Inner Voice, alarms were going off. There are some ashrams or monasteries that practice celibacy, and men and women will keep separate quarters. But that is far different, and it is right for that path. That doesn’t trigger my Inner Voice alarms at all, but at this lecture, the sexual separation was purposeless and an “un-true” action that reeked of ego and control for the sake of control. What this false “guru” was doing made me cringe inside, and would do the same for anyone who was really seeking true spirituality, rather than looking for a spiritual ego trip.
8. Their ego gets offended for any reason.
Again, a true teacher has transcended their selfish separate self, and with it, the separate self’s defensive ego. Ego changes to become nothing but “selfless confidence”, the knowingness that they can do whatever the Universal Spirit requires of them, and that forces of the Universal Spirit will work through them if it is within Universal Will. Questioning them about anything, insulting them, or verbally attacking who they are, gets no normal “ego” rise from them. An exception to this is if you have already become their student, then questioning them about things that are not in conflict with your own inner voice is just a game your self is playing.
9. “Channeling” of a certain kind (explained later, and in the next chapter). (This thread)
10. Lack of Unselfish Love.
A true teacher will probably be the first person you have ever met, that really Loves - totally and Unselfishly. He loves you more than his self. If you are at all sensitive, you will feel this. If you find instead, that awareness or concern for others is lacking, or there is a lack of Unselfish Love, kindness, and caring, it’s not the real thing.
I want to type very slowly and cautiously... this is a very hard careful post and I do want to put out.
I must say, I have in my life time SEEN SEE THRU people many many times... particularly during a time that I was spending many hours a day in deeper meditation.
Meditation alone can be a DRUG... and I know it... as you spend more and more time in meditation, this would becomes less and less important to you.
and In fact, I have had communication with 3 entities that were see thru.... and one that would appear through a lavender bubble and walk out of the dot... and communicate with me.
This was shocking to me at first.
I can not explain it.. other than, during those moments and for hours after they would appear... my head would be CHARGED and FILLED with Inspirational thoughs.... and I was compelled to write.
This is some type of mental phonomena that does happen... and I do not think other than LABELING yourself CRAZY anyone can clearly understand it until you have walked in the same shoes.
It could be that JZ had some of these types of experiences in the beginning and then wanted to make a business out of it... this I do not know.
I must also say, that I have seen these SEE THRU being on air planes and walking around when I was with my customers... at the grocery store where ever.
I would be told things and shown visions.
Truly, I do not know what it is all about. But I do know that for about 6 years when I stopped going OUTWARD to channells, and gurus.... and just stayed home and meditated those things happened.
However, I must also say, you tend NOT to be very INTEGRATED when you spend too many hours a day in meditaion. You tend to live in LALA Land.
You also loose interested in things of this world. It sort of captures you.
Crazy ..... maybe.
I would say, after that, and a very long boring story, I made a conscious decision to Stop meditating for too many hours a day.
I do feel now, I am more a WHOLE being than before... that is, before I was single and now married and have a much more GROUNDED life here.
Not is la la land all the time.
I never channelled.... but I can say, even now.. at times... I am givine information... I call it from my self to my self... smile.
I also understood that the SEE THRU people I saw... ...now I will type s l o w l y... were parts "OF ME" being projected in a SEE THRU manner.
I have only ever hear of one person ever discribe the same way these SEE THRU guys would come.
That was that Flower of Life guy.. Dunvalo I think that is his name. It was the same way one of my teacher appeared.
First... a very very tiny tiny lavender DOT would just appear in the room... and grow larger and larger... then I could see a being sitting in that dot as it got bigger... SWOOCH..... SWOOCH... and finially he would WALK OUT of the dot. Now that one was a REAL GUY... not the see thru.
Then, the see thru guys would just appear... where ever I am... I would be sitting with customers and they APPEAR in the room. Tell me something and leave.
At times they would NOT Talk... just sort of IMPRINT me with some information.
NEVER NEVER NEVBER ONCe... did any of them ASK to use my body as a channel. I knew they were teachers for my own evolution.
They would IMPRINT ME information and leave.
The room would be SUPER CHARGED with energy that was THICK and I could see waves of energy. It sometimes appeared they were waving up and down.
SO there you have.
My conclustions about Ramtha I do not know... but I do kinow that the BUSIESS of the MONEY CHANGERS and the DARKER SIDE of the events are not anyting I would care to be involved in.
The problem with MY STORY is, This sujbect is very SUBJECTIVE and is difficult to express in a way that anyone can understand unless they have had a similar experience.
No, I was NOT Told that they were ILLUMINATED LORDS. No, I was NOT ask to CHANNEL them.
No, I did not ever take money and do privates and give information.
It was JUST for me alone.
I have had similar dot things such as you have, tho not as elaborate, so I feel you. Also too, the more I "focussed", every day, as much as time allowed, the more phenominal things happened. After leaving RSE, I can still tap into these areas, but as you too said, I choose not to unless I really feel like it/or "need" to. Not becasue I have to prove to myself how great I can be. Ramtha would hammer this with a judgemental sounding voice as "mundane" living, but even in 3D I am NEVER bored, and never not in a state of wonder. I LOVE my "monkey mind", and never tire of how it goes about thinking, weather I "control" it or not.
I thought to start a thread called "We'll believe you, Ramtha, IF..."
Like, I honestly believed he had some ascended masters computer like brain/mind, that could make JZs body "Do Anything"..and what fools we are to never demand he prove how UNLIMITED he is!
Instead, we believed all his reasons and excuses, and allowed him to Push Us to be unlimited instead...feeling guilty all along when we got "afraid" of anything. I remember sitting in the dentist chair, ashamed of the fear I had being there, trying to use all the mind power I could muster to relax.
Next, look at all the "regular humans" who have bigger followings than Ramtha . Im thinking of the religious ones, but lately theres this guy Joel Olstein, or something, and some other INspirational people, not too far from preaching like Ramtha..
Thanks Kaworu, Lavender, and seeallsides, for bringing this strong and important message back to the top again. When this knowledge came to my attention -- as warning for others -- I felt that it needed to be heard. And so, once again, it has come up to the surface again. Once a person reads the original message I posted, I'm sure it will ask one to be very careful about these so-called master teacher and their channeled personalities.
My original post should be the first thing anyone should read before they go running off to some disincarnate, claiming to know it all. Again, you never know who you are giving your power up to. Taken your power back is realizing that you have your own inner being, your own connection with universal consciouness, and master teacher or channeled whatevah can never be greater, powerful then, or better then, or know more then you can.
Keep in mind people that ascended masters don't hang around this plain, they've move far beyond and want nothing to do with humans. So that leaves only one question: just who were you listening to when you thought you were listen to an ascended master, through JZ?
People get hooked on the drug of JZ's altered personality, and any/all la-la-la spiritual concept without first really looking at the: what is it that I think I lack, that this 'other' I'm willing to give my soul and income to, can give to me?
People go into these seminars and to these channeled beliefs as broken vessals, willing to give up their life to, and in most server cases, protect the one who's doing the harm to them.
After re-reading my original post, I too had to keep reinforcing the knowledge about who and what these so-called channeled beings could really be. And I've reached the conclusion that I'll have nothing to do with anyone, claiming to be in contact with some other, from the astral realm. I've always been a skeptic about 'channeling' anyway, but went ahead and gave it a try. I'm so glad my 'monkey mind' jump around enough to tell me that the whole Scamster is a fruad.
Like church, the only thing you get out it is feeling good for just a few seconds.
The main them behind my original post is that you never know who you are giving your power up.
Go out and do enjoyable fun normal things now.
thanks for bring this post back to the surface so that when new members come on board, maybe this post will be one of the first they read, mentally preparing them for the quick and easy way out of being scammed and controled by these people claiming to be channeling 'Ascended Masters.'
I had never seen this post.
I was grateful for it.
Here's another chapter fron the same book on SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE VS. GOODNESS
"SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE VS. GOODNESS
I’d attained a good deal of spiritual knowledge from all the reading I did as a
teenager. But I was finding out that most of it was more of an impediment to my
growth than an aid. An early course by the elder monk Enoch burst the bubble of
my intellectual wisdom. Just as I was thinking to myself about how much I already
knew, and how I could really probably skip many of these courses, Enoch started
his lecture like this:
“Many people place too much importance on spiritual knowledge itself, and
don’t concentrate first on the basics of simple goodness, such as the virtues of
Unselfish Love. Knowledge is meaningless without this. Using imagination and
visualization, we can make a ‘mental illustration’ that clearly demonstrates this.
There is an ancient technique that can help you perceive, understand, and contemplate
the value and impact of a person’s character. We’ll use this technique to
compare the value of knowledge, as opposed to goodness. Here’s how it works:
Think about a person’s qualities and traits, and then imagine what the world would
be like if it were entirely populated by, and run by, billions of identical duplicates of
that one person. Keep in mind that if the entire world is populated by ‘so and so’s’
duplicates, some of them will also be in powerful political positions. There is an old
saying, ‘Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely’. Having power
tends to nurture the darkness within people. Even a little separateness and selfishness
is like a dormant cancer that can grow unchecked when fed by power. Some
people behave well when they’re ‘held in check’ by lack of wealth, lack of a position
of power, and constrained by society’s moral standards and laws. So when you
imagine a world full of ‘so and so’s’, you need to consider what they might become
if they were also in all the various positions of power - police, judges, head officers
of giant corporations, presidents, kings and queens? You get the idea. The overall
feeling and image you get of an imaginary world populated by any given indi -
vidual, will give you invaluable insight about them.
So for our knowledge vs. goodness contemplation, let’s think about what it
would be like in two different imaginary worlds. In this case, we don’t actually know
the people involved, but we can still use the technique to help us understand the
comparison. Let’s say the first world is entirely populated by duplicates of the one
person with the most, and greatest spiritual knowledge on Earth. Keep in mind
that this person, is still basically selfish (as most people are). Thus they may be nice
and friendly when things are ‘going their way’, and when nothing is required or
asked of them. But these ‘clones’ aren’t Unselfishly Loving, and have spent their
time and energy more on acquiring spiritual knowledge, instead of focusing on
developing, and practicing, kindness and harmlessness above all else. Thus their
world is full of people that aren’t particularly kind, are definitely not harmless,
happy, etc., and likewise, the population is definitely not self-sacrificing when
another person is in need. Yet they are all ‘egoed out’, each person thinking they
are very wise and ‘know it all’. So world #1 is still full of inequities and injustices of
all kinds, still has children starving to death needlessly, still has torture, wars, and all
the other evils, problems and destruction, that go along with a ‘look out for #1’,
‘dog-eat-dog’ world. I know those of you here don’t want to live in that world, and
many other people don’t either (yet isn’t it virtually the same as the outside world is
that we have now). So how useful is great spiritual knowledge alone?
For our second imaginary world, let’s think about what the world would be like
if it were entirely populated by duplicates of one REALLY ‘good’ person. Someone
with little knowledge, but with a ‘good heart’. Someone who is compassionate,
kind and harmless, and really cares about others. And they also have an attitude of
‘live and let live’, regardless of what others believe, think, and do (as long as they
don’t hurt someone else). That’s not too much to ask is it? Now, wouldn’t this
world be an incredibly better world than the one that people live in now? It would
obviously be a beautiful, happy place - no starvation, no hurt, no war, no economic
or physical enslavement, and no infringement on freedom.
So even in regard to the practical aspects of day to day life (and the condition
of the world in general), isn’t it obvious that the virtues of kindness and giving, are
far better (and truly ‘spiritual’) than any spiritual knowledge? And just imagine an
entire world populated by Unselfishly Loving ‘enlightened’ beings - it would be paradise,
Heaven on Earth.
SPIRITUALITY REQUIRES MORE THAN SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE"
Excellent. Knowledge of Truth alone is empty if one doesn't practice it.
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
~Om mani padme hum~Om mani padme hum~ ( I can still hear the singing in Nepal of this beautiful mantra in ref to compassion.)
So can we BE the change? We must become the compassion, the truth, the love, the nonjudgmental, etc. in order for the world to "change." Otherwise, we continue to see war - humans slaughtering/harming their fellow humans. We are capable of so much more; and that's one area I would say, imo, we ought 'let go' of attachment to the feelings. Feel the emotion, and let go of the "attachment" to the emotion after you've chewed it on it awhile. But do nothing to harm another. It IS our emotions, out of control, and need and greed for power that leads to the downfall of civilizations. When do we finally learn?
There are many points of view on this forum. Some were not at RSE for the abusive remarks and reprimands, yelling by the "red guard" and/or staff. Some here were verbally or otherwise in abusive situations at home or growing up. Some might still be working through these issues. Some might see or feel or experience a "trigger" when reading words that otherwise cause no problem for anyone else. It takes time, for some. Is it difficult to exercise understanding of these persons' situation? Are we not here to help get through the RSE aftermath?
We all have our own shoes, and unless we walk in the other's, we really can't know, but can only offer sensitivity and understanding to one another.
If people here begin to not care about these abusive issues, which can indeed by triggered by phrases of those not aware of the situations, and then see others LOL after it, then what purpose does this healing forum serve? It's abuse all over again, only, as I mentioned earlier, wearing another set of blinders-blind to that which others are groping through to become whole again. All are at different stages. I'm offering what I believe is important in helping to bring understanding. It's nothing to laugh at or poke fun at, when it can be a trigger for those still wrestling with the abuse of RSE combined with abusive language or otherwise in other areas of their lifetimes.
Imo, I believe everyone here has so much to offer in terms of experience, but yes, we do need to be sensitive to those who are desperately and courageously attempting to heal from the RSE holocaust.
Peace in the heart, peace at home, peace in the world -
This was a BRILLIANT Post... you WEAVED your words well... you are so right about the personal TRIGGERS.
This POST should be one of the FIRST post people on this board read... and REMINDED of.
We all have our own issues that we are working through.
And sometimes, the ENERGY pulls the sting-lett and the emotional VOMITING begins. We have ALL been there done that.
On the Internet because we do not see the FACE or SOUND of the voice these subtle clues can be left out of our messages.. and the WORDS have a greater SELF-INVOLVED meaning.
G2G "Imo, I believe everyone here has so much to offer in terms of experience, but yes,
we do need to be sensitive to those who are desperately and courageously attempting
to heal from the RSE holocaust."
I do agree with you, and I must say that I was unaware of this when I first came on
this forum a few weeks ago. I think one of my posts realy hurted Christel and she
ended up by leaving this forum. I'm sincerely sory and if you're still reading,
Christel, please accept my apology.
Lavender "This POST should be one of the FIRST post people on this board read...
and REMINDED of."
OK, so here are some more excerpts from the same book, page 59 to 61 :
"As long as we don’t hurt each other, and we help each other when in need, who cares what
“beliefs” we have - religious, political, moral, or whatever. And I believe that’s
what’s most important, because I know that Unselfish Love is always beneficial.
That is one of my revamped beliefs, and I think it’s something we should be able to
universally agree upon. I Can. Can you? Will you? What can it hurt? Nothing.
What can it help? A great many things, like peace and kindness.
[...] what matters to me about you, is not really what you think or believe, what
religion you belong to, or if you’re an atheist, but how you conduct yourself. What
matters to me is whether or not you are a Loving, kind-acting, caring-thinking,
harmless person. Unfortunately, a person’s beliefs do greatly influence how they
think and act though.
[...] Regardless of whether or not you believe it, your beliefs control your destiny,
so they need to be closely scrutinized for what they create in your life. What
you think and believe greatly affect whether or not you are a saint, an evil monster,
and everything in between (like a somewhat kind person, or a somewhat mean person).
[...] Beliefs have a dominant and powerful effect on every aspect of our lives! People
even kill over beliefs.
...Religious beliefs are frequently based on faith, and they are most often something
we are ‘taught to believe’ early in life, by our family’s religious beliefs and reli -
gion. Other beliefs are absorbed also, from our cultures.
People don’t usually stop and think about the fact that something as seemingly
‘innocuous and insubstantial’ as our mere ‘beliefs’, really have much effect on our
lives. But they do - in fact, they not only have tremendous effects on our lives, but
they also control much of our destiny.”
“How can this be that just an idea, a belief, controls our destiny?”
“A belief itself is but an idea, it has no real substance. But we act based upon
our beliefs. The actions we take because of our beliefs, have effects. And only
the effects, the results, of those actions, are things we can see, feel, and grasp.
This is very important to realize. Because the effects of our actions, which result
from our beliefs, are precisely the things that can be used to determine the value,
good or bad, of any given belief. For instance, if you are kind to me because you
believe we are all brothers & sisters, your kind actions are something real, something
we can both know is good. Kind actions are transcendent of language, culture,
and whatever you or I may believe is spiritual truth. Likewise, if you are cruel
to me because of a belief, I will know it is a bad belief. These are obvious exam -
ples of course, and the results of many beliefs may be not so clear cut. Nevertheless,
all beliefs subsequently generate their own ‘thoughts’ and ‘actions’, good or bad.”
“So what should we believe for the greatest good for ourselves and the world?”
“Unselfishly Loving all beings [...] Caring about others, compassion, and kindness
are qualities of Unselfish Love. If these are things we can all agree are good, then
Unselfish Love can be used as a common, or Universal, measuring stick of goodness.
[...] Most people don’t even think about what they are creating as a
result of their beliefs. Do your beliefs further the manifestations of Unselfish Love,
or inhibit the manifestations of Unselfish Love? Do they breed anger, hatred, and
harm, or tranquility, love and healing? Do they make for a better life, or a worse
life? Do they make for a better world for others, or a worse world?
People have used their beliefs, and been driven by their beliefs, to hurt and
murder those with different beliefs. It can be over different beliefs about economics,
race, religion - you name it and people will kill over it. What insanity! Why?
[...] How much harm has been done in the names of God, Country, or Tribe? How much horror
and pain has been inflicted because someone has a different racial, national, tribal,
class, or religious belief? More than we can really grasp with our limited
[...] Any individual who wants to grow, attain enlightenment, or be a really good
person, must completely re-evaluate their beliefs in the light of the effects those
beliefs have, where they came from, and why.
Christel prefers to take some time away from EMF from time to time. She posts periodically.
Thanks for thinking of her !