found this site on google http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/1217/living.html - was this the reason JZ didn't show up for the Hawaii retreat last December?? - I believe it was - too busy decorating her house for Christmas. I believe it was false advertising to say she was going to be there and at the last moment the reason given was that she was "too tired" - yeah, too tired from shopping in New York city and then busy decorating her home in time for Christmas.

Just wondering - has the zebra ever invited any of her students to her home to 'share the spirit' of christmas or are they only allowed to stay in the horse stables????? - wouldn't a spiritual being want to share what he/she has with others??? after all aren't the students the ones paying for the lifestyle that she has grown customed to??? all in the name of spirituality - we all need to have our heads examined - it is time all present students really started questioning why they "need" someone to dictate to them what they should believe in - what a scam all this is!!!!

I have a close friend that went to a Christmas party at Judy's - her boyfriend was in Group 10. My friend was most impressed with Judy's cold cold coldness - absolute absence of love and sincerity.
Judy doesn't know how to spell share, let alone do it.

Quess blue body healings, new neuro-nets, create your day, time tiles and quantum physics is no match for " I'm tired ". But she had racked up quite a few ailments ( remember the high gloss 4 color 4 page brochure we were issued as testimony of her miraculous cure thru consciousness ) -- how did she get in such a physical mess having been coached and taught one on one by the super duper tutor himself? Alot of those brochures had a very yuck response from folks -- too contradictory. Talk outside the brainwash classroom was were's the integrity and impeccability R holds so near and dear,surely apologies will be forthcoming . I was embarrassed for them, why weren't they? So I asked a staff member about JZ, what's the deal? The reply was " oh she's just a bimbo, we don"t pay her any attention anyway, we'll have a great week without her". I thought it strange how JZ was so seperated from R- don't you have to have the whole package? And how could the number 1 student at the school , private tutoring and all, be such a miserable failure at all the disciplines and held in such poor regard by her staff. We also talked at lenght that surely if JZ had to cancel she would care enough to send her very best teachers to represent RSE. Well if they are the best, it makes the difference between their TALK and their WALK really easy to see. After reading EMF I now know why the staff was actually relieved and happy she was a NO_SHOW and how she could advertise,promote, accept full payment and say
BLEEP YOU to all of us---it's easy when that's who you are. Conning is what cons do. I also know the examples of manifestation came from all the participants (time & $$$) plus all the feel good high, buzz, and vibes---Not the DVD's or staff showing off their abilities.

Oh, do I have a Christmas story to tell !
I'll do my best to post it by tonight (Thursday). I treated myself to an event ...keeping in mind that I flew a long distance to attend just this one night, that was really hyped up in advance. What I directly witnessed would digust many people, I'm sure.
I also have other stories to share with regard to JZ just not showing up for channeling when it was ADVERTISED that the Big Guy would be there.

For an idea of where all your money goes, here is how the great Guru Ramtha/JZ celebrates Christmas - following article found on the web: Complete with photos

WHERE THE CHRISTMAS SPIRIT SPEAKS
J.Z. Knight celebrates with traditions and treasures at every turn

In the entry hall, a mother embraces her child in an oil painting by 19th-century French artist Emile Murier. Below the painting is a tableau of children's treasures - several bears, a winged fairy in pink, a toy motorcycle.
STEP INSIDE a house where winged monkeys perch on bookshelves, fully clothed rabbits ride rocking horses and, around nearly every corner, there is magic.
In the entry hall, a Santa Claus with dazzling blue eyes surveys a room filled with dolls, huge presents and an antique dog carrying a basket of Christmas balls in his mouth.

Down the hall, beside an opalescent mural of a fairy, another large Santa pulls a sleigh. And in the living room, a white dove flutters onto the branches of a 20-foot Noble fir, settling quietly among the garlands and shining balls as if she lived there.

Welcome to Christmas in Yelm, at the home of spiritual leader J.Z. Knight. Once a Tacoma housewife, Knight now attracts an international following for her reputed ability to "channel" - to abdicate her body and voice to a 35,000-year-old warrior named Ramtha.

Though she can speak as an ancient spirit, Knight still celebrates Christmas. She - and Ramtha - love Jesus for saying that the Kingdom of God lives within you, she says. And every year, Knight works hard to create the Christmas spirit throughout the four-bedroom, 12,800-square-foot, French chateau-style home that she designed.

"What I'm doing with this house is to never let that feeling of magic and awe and really mystical feelings die," she says. "I want you to feel like you're 5 years old."


In her elegant pool room, J.Z. Knight holds a favorite dove, Snookie, who was hand-raised and often leaves its aviary to follow her through the house.

In an eclectic, Victorian style, Knight adds Santas, Madame Alexander dolls, bears, silver-winged angels and well-dressed rabbits from Best Bunnies of LaConner to rooms already filled with antique furniture and her collection of fine European, British and American paintings.

In every room there are silver dishes of candy or nuts and pots of flowers - orchids, amaryllis, narcissus and dozens of poinsettias.

Christmas objects dress tables and walls alongside fanciful creatures and symbols from other religions. An 18th-century French fruitwood buffet displays a statue of Buddha - and beside it, a manger scene, complete with Baby Jesus. A large gold angel with silver wings lives in a doorway niche but around the corner, in the dining room, are those flying monkeys.

Sometimes, Knight creates a Christmas scene that relates to one of her paintings. A 19th-century work by French artist Felicie Schneider shows a boy with his head on his desk, tired from doing homework. Below the painting Knight placed a collection of "boy things" - reproductions of antique cars, planes, a circus wagon.

Knight especially treasures Christmas because she didn't experience it until she was 5 years old. Her mother was single, poor and working two jobs in Artesia, N.M., but somehow brought "just a little tree" to their home in an old Army barracks.

"My mom put it on the nicest piece of furniture she had - the radio. And my brother and I got one gift each," Knight recalls. Also that year, she saw Santa Claus for the first time, riding a fire truck into town.

By a winding staircase, a 43-inch-tall Saint Nicholas escorts an elegant doll from Germany. Loops of greens and Christmas balls decorate the oak bannister.
When her mother remarried, the family continued to celebrate Christmas. But when she was in 9th grade, her stepfather decided that decorating a tree was too much trouble, and, Knight remembers bitterly, "I saw the death of Christmas."

She is determined "never to let the spirit of Christmas be thrown away" again.

So she and her staff - including housekeeper and former Los Angeles interior designer Nancy Trent - try to capture "that feeling of magic and awe" throughout her house.

Knight says she thinks all year about how to create magic. As she travels around the world - channeling and meeting with students from the school she started, Ramtha's School of Enlightenment - she also finds time for shopping. She buys statues of angels, elegant ribbons, an old wooden cart that could hold a Christmas display. "I'll see these things and I'll just ship " `em home," she says.

Back in Yelm, the Christmas mood is set early. Last year Knight started playing Christmas music on Oct. 15. This year, she and several staffers began decorating, as well, in October, often consulting photographs in order to recreate a design from years past.

For all the planning, some decorations come from impulse. Sometimes Knight takes apart a decoration her staff has just carefully re-created from a past year's photo and builds a new design.

Or sometimes she finds something new. The tall Santa in her front hall came from a Nieman Marcus catalog. Knight liked his blue eyes. "I looked at him and said, 'He's gonna come home and live with us.'"

A hall near the entry displays an oil painting by 19th-century French painter Felicie Schneider of a boy tired from doing his lessons. Below the painting Knight arranged "boy things" - a toy sailboat, a plane, a miniature wood-paneled station wagon.
The visit by a bird named Sugar Dove to her Christmas tree was also unplanned. It flew into the living room one night from Knight's pool-house aviary.

Also in November, Knight begins serious Christmas shopping for family and friends. And she turns her three-car garage into a Christmas workroom, filled with wide shelves full of ribbon, 20 bins of wrapping paper and a sign proclaiming, "I believe in Santa."

In late November, she and boyfriend James Flick, an an associate with the School of Enlightenment, visit a nearby tree farm to cut a Christmas tree (sometimes two trees - one for the living room, one for the front hall). Then they and her staff decorate it, with balls and garlands of birds and pears designed by artist Christopher Radko, plus literally thousands of lights. Last year, "it took us two days to do about 5,000 lights," she said.

As Christmas nears, Knight's sons Brandon and Chris visit to roast chestnuts and play pool in her "pub." Grandchildren Austin 7, and Sidney, 5, stop by, too, to help Knight make cookies.

Another Christmas-time pleasure - a trip to Seattle with friends to see "The Nutcracker" and two days of shopping. On Christmas morning, she meditates, then hosts a family celebration, opening stockings with her sons and grandchildren.

In the dining room, a white-bearded fairy rides a chair back. Red ribbons, red candles and red amaryllis mix with garlands of greens, golden balls and, above the mantel, a huge, handmade star. The table is set with Christmas china and red and green goblets.

Much of Christmas Day is spent in Knight's comfortable "viewing room." Garlands of greenery decorate the entertainment center. Huge bells hang from doors leading to an outside patio. And nearly every table displays some treasure - a Santa Claus, a dollhouse, a Ralph Lauren bear in a Polo coat.

Here, she and her family can "eat, watch a movie, put on a fire," Knight says. And here, on Christmas, they open presents. "There are stockings for everyone," adults and children alike. All day long, they open gifts, "so everyone can see what they got. There's lots of music, lots of cheer."

After all, Knight says with conviction, "We're all kids at Christmas."

Writer Lanie Lippincott Peterson

Well now, no wonder she doesn't have time for the folkies who coughed up all the money - she is too busy spending their money to actually give them some kind of service, like showing up for a promised event in Hawaii.

If you want to see the photos, The link for the above article is:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/1217/living.html

I think I see a little green mosnter.

GJ…

Would you care to elaborate on your comment?


David.

Golly GB, are you trying to suggest that "Seeker" is a green monster and jealous? I would say that maybe all that bizarre decorating is just a bit excessive and not quite what one would expect from a spiritual leader. All that shopping and shipping things home - I guess we can all see the spiritual intent in that.

Like I have said from the beginning "RSE is going to crash" - I still see the image everytime I read something from this site......."you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all the time" - is that the correct saying????? crash, crash, crash, - now if the 7 foot guy/and the delusional woman believe we create our realities, then let create a reality of RSE crashing - if it works, then we may be on the somthing ???!!

The more I get my senses back, I think "how did I get into all this crap in the first place" - it sure is waking me up to all the decet of the spiritual community - I have always felt that something was not quite right and now I see "clearly", finally - All of those of you reading this and are still on the fence or afraid to leave the school - For Christ sake, "WAKE THE *&&*??* bleep UP"

Perhaps some people are jealous of JZ's wealth, but I personally doubt that.

I think some thought on this shows the following:

When people are in crisis, locally or globally, what to other humans do to reach out and help others ? They send/donate lots of money, items in need, and prayers. We do this for humanity - for people whose eyes we will never gaze upon. Because we care about human LIFE.

When people attend church, synagogue, mosque, new age seminars, etc...what do they do ? They give of their money because they believe in what they are supporting. The choose to attend, because they have faith they are being given the TRUTH.

What distresses people, is not jealousy of another's wealth in these circles, but that they are wealthy on the backs of those they have misled and lied to.

That's a big difference. To attempt to marginalize the serious issues that have been exposed on this forum, to simple jealousy that JZ Knight is very wealthy, is to miss the point, totally.

here here.
I could go on with stories here about Christmas, but I am bound by a confidentiality agreement I signed upon hire.
I am happy for JZ and her ability to create the environment she loves. We all are able to do that within the means we are able.
As for Hawaii,
I am reminded of a concert I attended a few years back.
I got second row seats, fairly spendy.
And the artist was looking over their shoulder to the current GF the entire time. They were not present at all during the performance.
I thought to myself,
"now how can this person POSSIBLY do this to the audience? Can they not give 2 hours of their waking day to which they asked us to pay for their performance? This is the LAST time I do THIS!"
I posted on some forums my disappointment.
I was chastised to no end for just speaking that which I experienced. In fact, I was booted off the forum.
The next year, the performer was struck with cancer.

Hello Tree and welcome,

I second all the others who have recognized your courage in speaking out and continuing to make the unknown known!!

Isn't it amazing (speaking of "integrity") How the reply "well , that's your truth" is used so convienently. It is a good dodge when it suits them, but when it comes to instances like you not repecting the red guards orders, or the gag order, then certain truths trump the others, and/or look to the legal system for thier truth and they have no respect for yours....

Tree,

You mention your confidentiality agreement as binding you from being able to speak out more, implying that you're willing to speak out more.

I wonder what it is that you can't speak about ? I'm not asking you to speak about anything you believe you are not allowed to, but what sorts of things (generally speaking), as "subjects", did you sign that you would NOT speak about ?

Also, where is the line between being able to exercise freedom of speech about your experiences, vs. speaking in a way that breaches a confidentiality agreement ? Are you obligated to remain silent about unlawful activity, IF you are aware of any ? I am not an attorney, but I think you are not bound to cover such things up.

Rape, for one example, is unlawful activity.

Did you ever file a complaint, or have the rapist arrested ? I assume not, but I just want to ask, IF you don't mind answering. If you want to privately email me, that's fine by me.

Gosh, part of me is wondering who you are...I'm sure we would recognize one another.

I am also interested in the conditions of the confidentiality agreement as an employee of RSE.

It appears that the dissemination of information coming out of the RSE administration is heavily CONTROLLED.

basically, one cannot really say anything to anybody about the things that go on at work. Nor can one make any claims concerning propriety concerning creative endeavors while on the job.
One cannot speak about JZ until 25 years after her death.
I think other previous staff would be afraid to speak out under these conditions.
Therefore, I have limited my expereinces to those that happened to me at events.
In the first case,with the Red Guard, that happened right before I started working there.
The whole situation and process took me some time to figure out for myself.
The thought occurred to me to press charges, but by the time I had my wits about me,it would have been : he said, she said.
In addition, being that the Red Guards are there to protect things, being that it happened with a Red Guard , I felt I had no place to turn.
Mind you, I was definitely still caught up in the "you created your reality", and as a result, did not think that included bringing the local Sheriff's office in on this.I know that sounds ridiculous as JZ uses the legal system when people have crossed a line.
If I had some friends on "the outside", they would have definitely been pressing me to do so, as obviously , in hindsight, this looks insane and unjust.
I do believe that previous people who performed similar acts can no longer step foot on the property.
I do have some opinions about how some things were handled, but that is only my opinion. It is not my business to run, nor do I know the entirety of a given situation. JZ runs things as she sees fit as would you or I when conducting our own business in our own lives.
I will comment on the idea many people in the offices have their nose so far up "the powers that be" backside, it is almost nauseating to be around. And so I kept to my self.
I am a straight shooter and have never found the need to suck up to anyone.

Corporations have confidentiality agreements in order to protect their property...... not to control every aspect of the workplace.

Organizations that do have non disclosure agreements about daily activities that remain in force for many years after an employee leaves are intelligence organizations.They engage in espionage and covert activities.

Perhaps the property RSE is trying to protect is its LIES.

The USA constitution grants the rights of freedom of speech and from the information given I would conclude that aspects of the confidentiality agreement that staff sign well and truly oversteps the mark.

I would consider it is in the public interest to have honest, factual information of incidences within the RSE interior that greatly conflict with the presentations given.

It is quite apparent to me that most of the student body of RSE and may of the RSE administration (as stated in Tree's post under the heading of "To All Prosepctive/Current students of RSE" ) are smitten with OBEDIENCE to a tyrannical dictatorship.

"Basically one cannot really say anything to anybody about the things that go on at RSE."

WAKE UP, STAFF! WAKE UP...

That is exactly what JZ wants you to think. That is exactly how JZ wants you to act. RSE is a contrived environment based on intimidation and control. She requires you to sign a confidentiality agreement so that you will be afraid. Afraid to think, afraid to question, afraid to talk. Remind you of anything?

The purpose of confidentiality agreements is to protect trade secrets. For example, let's say a corporate chemist is working on developing a new cleaning product. If s/he decides to leave that company, a confidentiality agreement prevents them from giving the formula to a new company. The point is that the new company cannot make money off of the previous company's work.

There are no trade secrets at RSE. She does not sell a product, she sells information and that she copyrights. Anyone can say anything but she wants you to believe that you can't. She is very clever.

If it makes you feel better, send her a letter stating, "I rescind the Confidentiality Agreement dated 00/00/00. Yours truly, "

Educate yourselves because until you do, the joke is on you.

I would be consulting an attorney if it were me. It doesn't seem that anyone, with any organization/business would be legally bound by a confidentiality agreement, if there has been suspected fraud and/or illegal activity and you have proof of either/or.
I'd also be wanting to know right from the attorney, where the line is between freedom of speech - especially when wrongdoing has gone on - legal or not - and being bound the "gag order" .

"There are no trade secrets at RSE. She does not sell a product, she sells information and that she copyrights. Anyone can say anything but she wants you to believe that you can't. She is very clever."

Well said.
And I am starting to see the light.
(no pun)
Someone gave me a transcription today of and event,
and of that of a book...
it was pretty much verbatim
"fantastic realism" "cranking the motor"
the "shades of the light spectrum" "the calculator and the dam" and "the calculator on an aeroship"
What got me most was: "the witch doctor and the bison.
That was THEE most obvious, since I was at that event.
Me thinks, she ought to review a few tapes.
But...me thinks...too much is at stake.
Good luck dear, at the review.

me thinks, the antes are upped.
Whoo Hoo!

I just noted today ( as JZ had told us before) that J. Gordon Melton has been financially backed, UP FRONT, by said, uh...."questioned" 'Legal' formally working "business" to provide, scientific results.
Let me re-phrase, these 'outside' groups, PAY him , for his 'scientific findings'..of which, he is snubbed,
by the scientific "experts". One has to ask,..'Why is he not repsected in the scientific community?"
uh...
pay offs maybe? for a favorble commentary?

from someone else's post regarding Steve Klein's blog:
I think that must be the "in" thing, copyrighting
previously released information.
Sort of like the fads that hit Yelm.
One minute, pyramind schmemes are ridiculed, the next
minute espoused by "the powers that (think) they be."
What will it be next?

Tree,
What is the title of the book you are referring to above?

Do you have a copy of the "employment agreement" you signed?

Cowboy-
I will find out the name of the book.
I was just given some printed copies of that and that of a transcript of an advanced Weekend. The quote for quotes are uncanny. I will try to find out the name.

And no, we were not given a copy of the confidentiality agreement. If I had the foresight, I would have asked for one, but I was just a trusting being.

I have my own concerns and questions, but i have to say loving christmas and having the means to do shopping for the folks you love isnt a sin and doesnt mean you lack spirituality.

I think this post goes a little far when folks **** JZK for something a majority of folks only wish they could do or have the means to do - make everyone you care about special on christmas day.

Personally, i dont hold to the idea that spiritual teachers should be poor and give up all their wealth and happiness. I think thats ridiculous. It doesnt make some one less spiritual to want to succeed. I also know as i've been a part of creating large events (NOT at RSE.) that 1000 is very paltry amount for putting on a large event. My guess is that JZK makes very little money on her events and the majority of her money comes from her other endevours.

Lets see.

To have a school you must purchase permits.
Water
Electricity Bills
Honey Buckets
Hiring of at least 30-60 fully paid staff members (Probably even more well in advance of any one event.)
Hours of personal time spent preparing that is NOT included in actual time spent with clients. (Prep time normally isnt taken into account by many folks but i know how much work there.)
Speaker EQ
Video EQ
Mics and other electronic EQ
Insurence


These are just things that come to mind off the top of my mind. There is more that isnt coming to mind now.

So look, lets be realistic. This woman, whether you like her or not. Think her a fraud or an angel. Is not making the majority of her money on her events. Its almost all gonna be made in other endevours - and i certainly wont **** her for being a good business woman.

Now, do i think she has made some massive mistakes, mistreated a number of people, stolen other peoples work, attacked with the intent to destroy anyone she sees as a threat to her among other things? Yes, according to what i have seen personally, i think that RSE has some of these problems i just listed.

I dont think her wealth or the fact she likes nice things or buying gifts is in that list of her downfalls. Sorry folks. Let the woman enjoy christmas in her way.

I offer to you folks to consider that threads like these, statements like some of the ones i read actually go a long way in proving you guys are petty and without a whole lot of merit in your arguments. Stay on REAL topics which DO impact. For example, some one said that they heard Ramtha get very angry when a person asked him "What did i have for breakfast this morning?" Well, Jeez! Thats a waste of a perfectly good question. The thing with questions is asking a question that the genuine article will answer, the fake will not. but NOT asking questions even the genuine thing will refuse to answer - For example "What did i have for breakfast."

There are genuine things i have read here, really valid things - lets stick to em, and get off of bashing some ones life choices. If you guys were rich, i doubt highly that you wouldnt be livin' it up.

AND, the other truth is most folks do not have even the slightest idea of how much money it costs to put on an event like this. Its ridiculously expensive. I know since i've done it. I'm just saying stay on track and on purpose here.

Thanks,

Bliss

I agree with you Bliss. I think some posts on this forum can get pretty petty.

Good for JZ. I hope she does become a billionaire, if that is her dream.

Also, I don't think she is making a lot of money from the school tuition either.

Bliss wrote:

" For example, some one said that they heard Ramtha get very angry when a person asked him "What did i have for breakfast this morning?" Well, Jeez! Thats a waste of a perfectly good question. The thing with questions is asking a question that the genuine article will answer, the fake will not. but NOT asking questions even the genuine thing will refuse to answer - For example "What did i have for breakfast."

So, according to this the "genuine article" decides what questions to answer and which ones not to. I would imagine "the fake" would also decide which questions they want to answer and which ones they would not. How would one distinguish one from the other in the first place? I mean by using which questions they choose to answer or not answer.

That is what is called "making the unknown stay unknown" (for a reason) in my book.

GJ writes:
"Also, I don't think she is making a lot of money from the school tuition either."

First of all I would appreciate it if you would define what "a lot of money" is.

Then Lets add the cassete tapes/vcrs/dvds/books/cds/ Just to name a few. I would like to hear what your accounting of all that might add up to.

Yes, anyone who works at a job should get paid, and if you are the owner of a business, maybe you should get paid more than anyone else in the business---makes sense.

Perhaps some ex-members get peeved that JZ can afford better creature comforts than the average R-master, but underneath that pettiness is a very real concern: What is the product? What is she selling?
And again, why can't she demonstrate the effectiveness of the product?
Newsweek Magazine once quoted me as calling the product (of another guru, Fred "Rama" Lenz) "metaphysical snake oil."
Joe

to accumulate 8 million taxdepts is a lot of money.i have nothing against making a decent living.but if its out of cheating people and making things up i think thats very questionable.also the real thing [a hyrophant]should show from time to time were the way goes to and not constantly get fed from other peoples succes.but if he cant not even answer a simple what did i have for breakfast when he claims to know us to read our bands to know about our sexual isues.to know when we die and when we are born.....some people need proof and he had the decentcy not to make it too complicated.i dont know whats wrong with that.

Look, folks.

Let us not forget what attending RSE was for most of us - a Spiritual Journey, a search for many things we ourselves did not know about. Now, something did strike me in that Penny Torres Video - She said "Over a thousand channels have all shown up but they all have the same basic message - that you are god and you create your own life." (Or something like that. I shouldnt quote when i dont actually remmber it word for word. LOL!) Anyhow - to me it didnt make me say "oooh, lookit alla the frauds" it made me say "**** right, nice, how freaking awesome. Who cares who's a fraud and who's not? I care that that many people suddenly geting noticed saying the same basic thing is definately worth listening to for me."

Now... I was taught about the grid when i was a child. But some one NOT a ramtha student - someone who'd never even attended RSE. Same thing with many of the other teachings. I know that for myself, the teachings are not false. HOWEVER< i do not agree with JZK attacking for the purpose of demolishing any business, group, person who even LOOKS to her like a spiritual teacher (all spiritual teachers tend to have the same basic principals, which i guess she owns the rights too, right?)

Alls i was saying about the stupid breakfast question is - an Intiate would never ask it. And a true genuine article would tell them to go find themselves. I personally wouldnt answer that bloody question myself and i dont claim to be a spiritual teacher. But if i could answer it, i'd tell em to go find emselves until proof stopped being the point and actions started being the point.

Then aagin, i'm one of the few people who actually walked away illness, cancer, faught off death last year and am in the process of healing the rest of my body free of needing to take medicine. I know the principals work, i've done it. So i guess i look at a question like "What did i have for breakfast" as a question some one scared of life would ask, not some one who takes life by the horns and doesnt give a rats ass whats real or not cause they're too busy loving life. Thats the kinda person who could leave RSE and say "heh, what an adventure. Well, on to the next one!" They dont feel sad because they know very strongly it better their lives. So great for them!


I guess i'm just trying to say - Lets leave the pettiness at the door. RSE Students coming here reading these posts, and make no mistake i'm sure they do, are gonna read posts about her money spending habits, or her nice house, or what they had for breakfast and they'll undoubtably roll their eyes and say "See, they're all just petty sad little people. I knew i didnt have a thing to worry about."

Yes, stealing 8 million from her taxdebts is BAD. Worse still is that she didnt pay it all back. That is definately something that should be addressed and talked about here. the fact she has doves flying around her house and "How could she spend all that money of hers while students are sick and dying" Is.. well, petty. She believes clearly she created her wealth, let her keep it.

My dad is a multimillionaire - he owns a Jet, 8 cares (who of them rolls royces) I needed chemo a couple years ago. He wouldnt pay for it. Its just as petty for me to talk about all the money he spends on worthless things - but its IS valid to talk about how he didnt take care of me when i was sick.

Its a matter of putting your attention where it belongs rather then focusing on things that truly get you nowhere. Anyhow, i'm done babbling. For now. hehe.

Does it really cost JZ much money to put on her events? Not all the event staff are paid; I know some RSE students who attend events who have to miss part of the experience because they are cleaning toilets in exchange for being able to attend. I have also heard that staff aren't paid much and don't receive full benefits that other jobs offer. I think other threads here have discussed the health insurance issue, for example.

C'mon, how much could it cost to have students sit in tents blindfolded...or spend days walking across a pasture to find their card...or sit on the floor of the arena instead of on chairs...or sleep either on the floor of the arena or in their own tents or in their own campers or vans? JZ doesn't rent or lease her buildings; they were already hers before she started the "school." JZ solicited her students to pay for carpeting the arena. Does JZ have to pay for publicity and advertising like other organizations do when they put on events? NO!!!

Think about it: Any time JZ wants to make thousands of dollars in just a few short hours, she can call a last-minute "emergency" evening event. The news spreads like wildfire through the Puget Sound area via phone and now email. When I used to do shuttles (before non-students were banned from advertising shuttle services on the Master's Connection website), I picked up people from the bus station who came down from Canada to attend such last-minute events. According to another thread on this site, JZ has even confessed to holding an "emergency" event and lying about needing money to pay off the IRS.

Ever heard of an urban myth? Whenever I hear things of this sort, I check sources such as the wonderful snopes.com. Many times over the years I have heard via "Yelm Rumor Central" that JZ is financially strapped and not making much money off events. Can anyone reading on this site about JZ's cars and lavish lifestyle (see the Christmas photos) believe that JZ could possibly be financially challenged? How can anyone still believe this myth, unless it's been passed around so often that some people just accept that it's true?

I agree that JZ has the right to make as much money as she wants as long as she doesn't do anything illegal. And if anyone wants to believe that JZ doesn't make substantial profit putting on all those "required" and extra events, they can play the violins for poor JZ. To quote Ramtha, "Wake Up!"

Bliss writes:



"Alls i was saying about the stupid breakfast question is - an Intiate would never ask it. And a true genuine article would tell them to go find themselves."

So, let’s say for the moment that I am the "genuine article"; you have been paying for my "enlightenment”. One morning I say that the sun will not come up tomorrow, for all of those who want to know what to do about this, this is a one time opportunity to come to an event this evening that is more powerful then all of the previous events combined. It costs as much as 5 years worth of events also.

Bliss, tell me, really, would you shell out the dough or would you wait to see if the sun came up??



"I personally wouldn’t answer that bloody question myself and i dont claim to be a spiritual teacher. But if i could answer it, i'd tell em to go find emselves until proof stopped being the point and actions started being the point."

Why do you feel it would do harm to answer the question and, how do you know that by just telling them to go find themselves would not cause harm??

Then aagin, i'm one of the few people who actually walked away illness, cancer, faught off death last year and am in the process of healing the rest of my body free of needing to take medicine. I know the principals work, i've done it.

Bliss, I am glad for you that you have surmounted any illnesses you may have or had, but you appear to be judging others by a standard you have set for your self and in the same breath telling them to "go find themselves...."


So i guess i look at a question like "What did i have for breakfast" as a question some one scared of life would ask, not some one who takes life by the horns and doesnt give a rats ass whats real or not cause they're too busy loving life.

First, you called the question "stupid" (sounds pretty negative to me) Then you seem to attribute it to some one who is "scared of life" You seem to be able to make broad judgments base on one simple, yet what may seem to you be stupid question. That sounds like an example of stereotyping and prejudices to me.

I wonder how you cannot see it for that, or if in fact you do and that is ok with you, and you can simply say as below "heh, what an adventure. Well, on to the next one!"

"Thats the kinda person who could leave RSE and say "heh, what an adventure. Well, on to the next one!" They dont feel sad because they know very strongly it better their lives. So great for them!"

I think you may have missed the point of the breakfast question all together and placed it in a context of making a person stupid or scared of life when that is not what the conversation was all about.

Bliss.....
I find your posts quite naive and petty in
themselves.
Having worked there, I might know a thing or two of how things are run.
But I am not about to announce these things
to ignorant or naive people.
Your posts say alot about who you are.

I'm sorry you feel that way Tree. I'm not intending to sound petty. I actually think rather highly of you folks for what you're doing. I simply intended to say that i felt you could make a larger impact by focusing on things that are far more striking then spending habits etc.

:shrugs:

Sorry if you find me petty. I think i'd say you seem very defensive. Just because i say "Hey guys, i think you'd get better results if you say things this way instead of that way" doesnt mean i'm putting anyone down. :shrugs again:

Sorry folks, definately not my intention.

Influencing and directing the behavior of others is what RSE is all about.

"How much does it cost to keep the school running"?

I was at an event once and Ramtha said it cost $78k a month to keep the school open.

Maybe Tree knows more.

I wonder if there is a delineation between RSE expenses and expenses incurred from other businesses owned by JZK Inc.

If RSE cannot afford to purchase a new carpet then perhaps the profits of RSE are being channelled into one of the other business enterprises owned by JZK Inc.

Such as the taxes for all of the locally owned properties below owned by JZ Knight in the Yelm area.

Link: http://lbloom.net/ytjk.html

Something I have found extremely illogical is the presentation of the merchandise in the Outback Boutique (now called JZ Rose) in Yelm.

The store is extremely cluttered and there are many fragile items and extremely expensive items. Great care is taken in most stores that fragile items are unlikely to be knocked and broken. In JZ Rose, Yelm many could easily be broken.

There is no apparent tight security that I have noticed and yet the price of some items is huge and many items are small and I would think easily taken by a shoplifter.

The store itself is out of place in such a small town.
When I was there in 2003 to 2005 there were rarely many customers....mostly around Christmas. Perhaps there are lots of internet sales?

Perhaps it exists for some taxation purpose?

At events the merchandise related to RSE is sold at the Quantum Cafe. Outside of events it is sold in the same premises as JZ Rose/Outback Boutique. The cashier is the same for merchandise for both. Is the business operation then of these two businesses intertwined?

I was really surprised to find something for sale in the Outback which I had given to JZ as a gift. She must have liked it though, because I saw it 6 years after I had given it to her.

Master of G, were you a close friend of JZ?

I was at an event, I believe in 2005 (and if not, it was real close to that time), when "Ramtha" said that JZ calls events to make money to pay her taxes and that is part of what we (students) support with our dollars.

I personally don't care if JZ or anyone, is a multi-billionaire. If anyone earns their wealth from honest, hard work, I'm happy for them. I DO care, if they become that when the corporation presents the teachings in what I believe are, at least, abusive and unethical ways.

Honest commerce gives a customer value.

'Just wondering - has the zebra ever invited any of her students to her home to 'share the spirit' of christmas or are they only allowed to stay in the horse stables?????'

I know of a certain celebrity who stays in the 'mansion' while attending her required events. I understand if it is a social visit, but isn't this celebrity the same as everyone else when it comes to coming off the field full of mud after disciplines, and wanting a bit of privacy or place to sleep without flooding tents or croaking frogs with subliminal messages all night long? I thought she was stayiing in an RV, then learned, no, during events the celebrity attended, she stayed with Judy in the house. Okay, so I can manifest $$$. Does THAT 'book' me a warm room within the house so I don't come home with bronchitis after being 'frequency specific with radiant health', seeing it within me and around me? Celebrity visits, hey, that's their biz. But in attendance at events, all should be treated equally. If you attend the event as a student, use a tent, RV, or sleep in the hall, and not in the warm cozy mansion. Do the event in the same manner that everyone else is, then visit.

Just another inconsistency I've seen. Are not all people equal? Then invite everyone to sleep in cozy quarters and have a warm shower.

As for me, stated earlier, I learned the people were being 'herded,' something I simply will not abide due to my strict religious upbringing. Might as well go back to church. At least the church was warm!

But I did learn from that field, and I did learn to accept responsibility, so I do not dismiss my time. However, truth is truth, and all people are equal, celebrities or not. Be consistent. Be honest. Be present.

I can verify this as I was working in JZ's garden at the time.
This is true.
And I must agree.
Who would not like a shower and warmth after a stint in the field?
Then maybe "the powers that be" would say, it is not mass to mass that matters, it is all in your mind.
So, what you are telling me is the celebrity created " better" than the rest of us?
I tend to think not.

Lady Star stays in JZ's house during events? What a surprise. When JZ started doing "petit chats" around 2000-2001 she frequently referred to Lady Star and what a great friend she is/was. At the same time when "Ramtha" was onstage s/he would criticize her harshly and Lady Star would take it.

Reminded me of an abusive relationship where the predator's behavior flips back and forth between nasty and nice.

I remember one event where "Ramtha" was screaming at Lady Star concerning her hypocrisy. She was promoting a beauty product and "Ramtha" chastised her for failing to admit that cosmetic surgery is what makes her look so good and not the product. "TELL THE TRUTH," "Ramtha" screamed.

Well what about all of JZ's cosmetic surgery? Why doesn't her blue body keep her young looking? And isn't it the same hypocrisy to promote immortality while spending $$$$$$$$$ on surgeons?

'Reminded me of an abusive relationship where the predator's behavior flips back and forth between nasty and nice. '

This also was my concern. I had been in a verbally abusive marriage when I was very young and I got out of it and grew stronger as a result and more independent. The flipping between nice and nasty keeps the people afraid or confused. I began to wear earplugs in the field so I wouldn't hear the yelling. I have to say that not all were abusive sounding. Some of the teachers were indeed very respectful. But do not admonish for we are all indiividuals on our own spiritual evolution. Institutionalized religion has admonished us all and 'you shall not pass' is ours to say. People enter with pure hearts and sincere desire to evolve. Do not abuse one another-was this the teaching of the original Ramtha(copyrighted)? World peace-isn't this the same as not abusing our brothers and sisters in this world wherever they are? So why utilize tactics that demean the beings, after telling all we are gods? I do believe we are this for lack of a better word in our higher selves. So that in and of itself allows me to be my OWN higher self and refuse to allow disrespect to me. I am ME and that includes my higher self and the lessons I set up for myself in order to evolve.

Methods used such as the breathing and levitation torsion fields are not unknown to eastern worlds. How can someone copyright the breathing that a tibetan monk or other aware being uses? How can someone copyright the vortex he sets up around himself, or for that matter the one Jesus himself did? So if I travel and learn from these people do I tell them they are violating a copyright? Or is it just the name the school has given to the disciplines, which are indeed found elsewhere. This is ancient knowledge from a variety of sources given whatever name.

Good for Judy that she has made a lot of money. I do believe in the law of cause and effect, karma, so it's not to me to judge how she did it. I do expect impeccability when dealing with learning truths and not that which is less than honorable. My arm wasn't twisted to go there although I believed I was going somewhere to learn how to learn how to further use my intuition and learn the secret of healing.

But it is confusing at best, the alternating between nice and not. At one event over the months we were told materialism is okay when one creates it themselves. So that brought up the question by students outside the arena then why should we purchase her products since we ourselves did not create them? It was an interesting conversation without any conclusion. After the event there were several who were confused and wondering about staying onfor the q and a or attending bc. It was uplifting that people made their own decisions according to their own hearts and were not afraid to do what their own selves was telling them.

Some others stayed on for the q and a one on one weekend for a fee of $600. This was added after the question dialogue which took place just before the event. People asking questions were met with responses that in my opinion turned around into questioning the person. Alrighty then, think for yourself and ask yourself the question because you have the answer anyway,. One woman had an interesting question about a brother with mental illness and the hierophant said he/she didn't understand why the woman was asking the question. It reminded me of when Judy had a q and a session at a summer event, the black and white responses or not responding and turning the question around, as when a couple at the microphone explained they were no longer frequency specific with their grown children, and Judy's response was 'so?' and that was that.
Where is the love I wonder. When do we stop loving our offspring I cannot fathom. It doesn't matter which body or dress they wear because the love is unconditional, in my opinion and isn't this fourth seal teaching?

My vibes are that there was an entity in years gone by but that as he wrote could not enter the circle we were entering. This is just my opinion. I learned from others that the hierophant wasn't at one of the followups last fall and also neither have Judy/Ramtha(copyrighted) been at events held this jan and feb but she called in and her voice sounded tired. I talked to people who were there and it was verified.

So if she wants to decorate to the ceilings it's fine by me. The question beneath is how can taking money be justified if the entity is no longer present? I would like to think it is, but the change from the beginning tapes and what I see now is drastic. We are not bad people for lack again of a better word. We are searchers of the truth and refuse further betrayals and untruths and since we are individuals thus also is our higher selves or our god and we then cannot be herded and must be allowed or take for ourselves that which is ours. So we walk our own walk and be our own higher selves or god knowing that within we are indeed divine and each is unique. To those who would verbally abuse YOU SHALL NOT PASS.

cowboy-
There are several.
And I am with you on the hypocrisy thing.
Although, Lady Star might not be so tight these days due to the latest greatest
cohersion group called (pronounced Nexium)
but it is not spelled that way ( Albany, NY)

As was posted, "Where is the love I wonder. When do we stop loving our offspring I cannot fathom. It doesn't matter which body or dress they wear because the love is unconditional, in my opinion and isn't this fourth seal teaching? "

Exactly.
Fourth seal TEACHING and LIVING and ACTION.
In order to see what you pointed out so well, the BLINDERS must be taken off and "students" must become MASTERS of their own lives by GRADUATING into living the fourth seal.

My opinion: I agree that Ramtha no longer is channeling because he refused to "dine" at the table that was poorly set. He wouldn't need to. In saying this, I am making the point that IF he ever was channeling, I don't believe he is anymore.