okay.. let us suppose that everything posted at this forum is somebody's truth.
And I observed this message board for some time and I do like most of the thoughts shared.
There are many students who left the school, much more
"evolved" than many who stayed.
There are dying current students - all the time.
And there are students who didn't even find a card after spending lots of thousands of dollars.
And there are students who get blue - but not healed.

I have been a current student for more than 7 years,
now still current, but no more BC.
(just because I stated to myself that this is not the school of JZ - but of the Ram - maybe I am wrong)

I just remember, maybe ten years ago, reading the first books from the Ram - and I did not find any books before,(..after practising years of Scientology, reading a lot of Blavatsky, Szepes, Plato and on and on..), where the basic statement to be, to feel, to live, to be God, to create your own reality - is stated in this way (and I do not mean - state of mind).

If there is no good or bad, in the eyes of God, isn't
JZ a great demonstration regarding to this statement?

If she is abusing students financially, or emotionally
- okay that means that there must be victims.

Isn't "reserved seats for the whole year" an issue to upset everyone or make him lol?
(just american business???)

Are we searching for arguments that JZ is just reading some thoughts and that she is just a business-woman, trapped in the 3rd-power-seal or are we looking for some demonstration that there is a Ram?
(Where do we find the answer - if not in our self?)

I am interested in what you are saying, but I am not sure I completely get the gist of what you are saying. (I'm slow). It seems to me there is a deeper thought you are talking about that I am missing. Would you mind re-explaining it for me? Thx

Hi to Ginger,

thanks for your reply and thanks for your interest.

By this topic post, I just followed my mood, to express some thoughts, during a few glasses of wine and some cigars.
There was no intention to perform future replies, regarding deeper thoughts behind my expressions.

My statement is that we are still living and dying in our own specific reality.
We are still creating our life, illness and healing - with intent or accidental.
(using rse-disciplines, or huna-practices, or whatsoever)
And I do see rse as an interesting, instructing experience (finished or not), which I do not want to miss, even if it seems to be a circus - sometimes.
(I mean there are thousands of posts regarding this experience - it must be worth writing about!)

And it is no big deal to prove in some sophisticated manner, or by "scientific terms", that even after more than 20 years, we do not see any full-blown-master emerging from the school.

But which school, organization or kahuna, on this planet, in this times, is developing those masters?

So if we didn't find what we were looking for, inside rse, we have to find it outside of rse and perhaps inside of ourself.
Why not focusing on this topic?


By this I may finish posting under this identity.

Thank you,

Today I decided to close the door to RSE. It was (RSE)an experience for me, and I have understood what I wanted out of it. I never got lost in the school, so I don't have to find myself as such. Interestingly, it was the first organization that I really attended. Most of my life I did my own thing.

Question by mds: "But which school, organization or kahuna, on this planet, in this times, is developing those masters?"

REPLY:
In my opinion the question should be this: Which school, organization or kahuna, is MAKING CLAIMS that they are going to teach you to develop into a master, and is actually doing so, with proof?

For profit businesses like RSE are making claims and in over 20 years, they have not delivered. In eight years, a person can earn a Doctorate from a university. What "school" would be ongoing for over 20 years, and not deliver what they claim they do ?

Question by mds: "So if we didn't find what we were looking for, inside rse, we have to find it outside of rse and perhaps inside of ourself.
Why not focusing on this topic?"

REPLY:
What we found, is that RSE claims to deliver something that in over 20 years, has not been delivered to even one student out of many thousands. Some would call that fraud.
Why not focus on the possibility of finding what we were looking for, within us ? MANY OF US ARE.

However, that is not the point of this forum. There are people who choose to offer their experiences for others to give consideration to, and possibly help them if they find what is given freely here, to be helpful. If not, they always have the delete key.

With all due respect, as has been mentioned, you seem to be looking to validate, in your own mind, that your ongoing tenure at RSE is "okay". If you choose, as an adult, to go there, it is okay for you. Is it the wisest thing to do ? I would say no. But, I respect your choice to go; because it's your choice to make. Caveat emptor.

Hi to whatchamacallit!
First of all, thanks for sharing your thoughts and your point of view.
And of course your viewpoint is reasonable, that is why this forum exists and why I am here.

Regarding first answer by whatchamacallit: (see above)
Great idea to have a "certified Doctorate in mastership"! (just joking!)
I do know "schools of mind" who are delivering similar certified testimonies relational to the state of mind or the "step of evolution" from homo sapiens to homo novus or so.
The problem I do see is: if the graduate person is worth of it.


Regarding second answer by whatchamacallit: (see above)
I mean - if I do see something as wrong, or as not functioning properly, or as a fraud - my first thought
would be: is there something better or can I do it better by myself.
Maybe to offer some better alternative is also helping people.
Of course, to share similar experiences or acknowledgements are also helping - but there has to come a further step.
My point is: is there something wrong with the teachings of Ramtha - and if so, what is wrong?
With deep respect - and I do mean it!

What is wrong with the teachings of "Ramtha" is that they fail in their practical application. Wonderful ideas, very inspiring but all they are is ideas. According to Ramtha, the teachings can and will transform mortals into Christs - 30 years later, why aren't there any?

What is also wrong is that "Ramtha" presents himself as an all wise, all knowing omnipotent being. So why hasn't he been able to create even 1 Christ in 30 years? He's the teacher...

I don't think the teachings fail. I think many students want to fly when they haven't yet learned how to walk, so to speak. The school also makes you believe that you can fly and seemingly asks you to ignore that you still haven't mastered walking yet.

I haven't decided whether the intent behind this is deception or just giving every person a fair chance at trying out the disciplines without giving them the extra baggage of information that might discourage them.

I think the school is very challenging and not for everyone. But if you have found your way there, then it does make sense to have a support system in place that will encourage rather than discourage you in your efforts.

Hi all! To "mds": to answer if there's something "wrong" (or perhaps a better word is "erroneous" with the teachings of Ramtha: yes there is something wrong to state that "you create everything in your life". That is misleading & an outright lie. We are all individual expressions of Source, & each one of us has a part in that creation. I am not responsible for the rude aggressive drivers that go to cut me off on the freeway. They are responsible for their actions. The Earth may have tumultuous weather (outside of the problems to the environment humans have caused); that is the Earth's movement for which she is responsible. To state that "you create everything" is also a way for someone to justify that it's OK to abuse you or me because we're responsible for it. That way they absolve themselves of their responsibility for their cruel or abusive actions. It's always someone else's fault is a justification for them not to change or take responsibility for their own actions. Anyone who is a psychological counselor or has had counseling can identify that that kind of thinking (that I'm responsible for his bad mood etc.) as someone who has poor personal boundaries. Usually this comes from childhood when the child's parents didn't allow & respect the child as a personal individual with rights. The person grows up not having or being able to set "healthy boundaries". One of the main problems with people in the helping services (this is becoming a well recognized issue) is that compassion can be a 2 edged sword. It's easy to take on another person's pain, especially if one didn't learn "healthy boundaries" as a child. I'm not responsible for everybody on this planet or how they are acting, yet I'm part of this whole system. I hope this is clear, as it's difficult to explain it in detail in a small posting. Thanks for everybody's input. M.

Margaret,

Excellent points !

I would also add that the mind control tactics used in the school, work to erode the healthy boundaries that may be intact for people. The teachings on "doubt" and "redefining your past so you don't take it forward with you", are both examples of how this is done. I believe that what happens is that the healthy boundaries are eroded, so that they then serve to meet the needs of a narcissistic leader; the students become the EXTENSIONS OF THE NARCISSISM OF THE LEADER, and in doing so, cease to exist as independently thinking human beings.

After all, you are a God, ....BUT.... you are a stupid, unevolved God, so you need, in your ignorance, a hierophant to do your thinking for you.

Ramtha has said that the Grey Men deplore humanity and think of them less than dogs in the street (this is a paraphrase, not direct quote). He said, that they don't believe we are smart enough, to have a mind, so they develop one for us and give it to us (mass media influence, etc, etc).

That is so hypocritical to me, as RSE's tactics attempt to do the same thing, on a different wavelength. But, the bottom line is, students end up believing they are priveleged, special and very open minded, when in fact, they are not. They are living in survival, they are a dime a dozen based on whether or not they can pony up the next tuition fee for an event, and they are as limited as limited can be; they only accept the GROUPTHINK that the school spoon feeds them. If you do not accept it, and voice that you don't, you will hear about it via some sort of negativity that makes YOU wrong, not the teachings.

As has been mentioned already, it is the TEACHER'S JOB to implement and achieve the goal. RSE claims it brings human beings to Godhood, in this lifetime, in the flesh. It claims other things, also. In more than double, nearly triple, the time it takes to earn a Ph.D. in a university, the teacher has not been held accountable for the failure to produce what the curriculum says it will. At worst, it's fraud, and at best, it's grossly misleading.

So, that's my two cents !

Hello On The Fence,
If the teachings don't fail in their practical application, WHERE ARE THE CHRISTS?

After 30 years, why isn't JZ Knight a proven Christ? She has never publicly demonstrated any supernatural ability.

The stated purpose of "Ramtha" was/is to produce a Christ. In 30 YEARS IT HAS NOT HAPPENED, hence we have proof that the teachings fail in their practical application.

Worse than that, the teachings generate false hope which encourages naive and innocent people to make choices concerning their personal relationships, finances and health they otherwise may not have made.

Thanks for the added insight "watcha..." That would definitely be true if one with healthy boundaries integrates the ideas of how to become God realized. It would happen according to how much of the "self-brainwashing" the person integrated. M.

Hi WannaKnow. Yes, the school has not produced a Christ. I remember when I first came to school some of the students spoke of ascending one day like it was as attainable as going to school and getting a Phd.

At first I thought they were in denial, and perhaps for many that is what it was. But I later realized that talking about becoming a Christ like it was attainable was exactly how any Christ would start out thinking.

Apart rom that, I guess I never had a strong disappointment in not becoming a Christ because I still have other dreams that supersede ascension. I am having fun with life. I am making progress and that is all that matters to me.

Great input - INDEED!
Thanks a lot!

By human consciousness I do see just 3 sides of the coin.
I do have to contemplate the input, from an other realm to see the whole coin.
But whatever the outcome will be, I have to state, that there are wonderful beings in this forum!

Most of all, I do appreciate, that for me it seems, that most of the answers are coming from the heart.
(not just the mind)

My current conclusion would be: to take a human at least beyond polarity, there is a need for a "great school" and a "great anti-school".

Thanks again for all the replies!