Few things I've questioned that stills nudges at me with regards to what have I've read from the literture and CD from RSE.

I'm told we should forget about our past because the now is all there is, yet I ask: why are people told that if they have suffered from child abuse it is because they where the abuser in the past life.

Could you honestly walk by a baby (or any child) being tortured and beaten and spat upon by the parent (or anyone) if you where close by, and then just say: "oh..it's because the 3 month old (now being beaten) abused in a former life, and has incarnated through the tyrant parent to own what it is like. So, I'm not going to do anything and just shut my emotions and 'humanity' down."

This is a hurdle I find difficult to leap over because there is nothing within me that will allow myself to accept that a child that is being abused by parent, e.g. torture, spiritual attacking, beating, hating, emotional trama, and sometimes straight out ilreversable mental and physical harm and damage to an enfant.

Here, I'm trying to understand just what kind of spirit would want to incarnate through such conditions where as the 'spirit' is suppose to incarnate to evolve. How can any child evolve if they've been damage by damange and tormented parents and people?

I think that many of the people who come to the school have suffered some form of abuse at the hands of their parents (and/or others) and are thus, in search, of some kind of figure by which they can look up to and, seek approval from. It's as if people are looking for some outside figure to love them as they've not had, growing up from the parent that didn't give them that love. But yet, finding themselves confronted by the same emotional trama and fear at the hands of the respected master they have come to embrace: in other words, afraid to express what's on your mind or else, be punished.

Now with abuse and the reason people 'choose' certain parents so that they can 'own' the experience themself, then that means, that, people will never get off the wheel of incarnating to abusive parents and conditions because, if the abuse doesn't seek help, and continues to live his/her past trama in the present then; he/she will too have children (or people)to hurt, and thus, which means that that person receiving the abuse is receiving it because he/she is from a former life of abusing someone else. This sounds like a wheel to me, yet I've been told this is the reason people incarnate through certain parents.

Could it be that the parents where 'whacked' out from the get-go, and had children and just wasn't stable in their own spirit to be a parent? And what 'spirit' would want to incarnate into hell, then having to spend the rest of his/her life; finding and healing themself. I'm not saying to use the sistuaion as a crutch and not ever evolving but, if a person wants to talk about that troble issue in their past, I think they should be allowed to so so and not shove it down by thinking they deserve such mental and physical trama because they've done it to someone else in a former life.

Is there somebody on the 'other side' that makes you go to undesirable conditions? -against your own will?

This is where most gurus and swamis and spiritual leaders and masters come in: because they must know that there is a 'hugh' market out there of spiritually broken people who are still re-living the trama done to them at the hands of a relative or, stranger.

Is the women who is raped, is raped, because she raped, in a former life? I mean, do we just sit back and say oh yeah, because she raped? -I don't think so!

Is the man who is racially insulted, is insulted, because he insulted, in a former life? -and then decided to incarnate into another race to see what being hurt is all about? -give me a break. Let's be honest: There are just rude nasty and mean people on the planet period.

Is the baby who is tortured, is tortured, because the baby tortured, in a former life? -now lets be honest, no one can look into the eyes of a child and not see that that child has come here to make life better. But most parents get caught up in their own issues and the children have to live and grow up within that unhealthy enviornment.

You see...here is where I must look further into these ideas of 'karma' and 'owning' that the teachings speak about: but tells you that your experiences are because of a former life, which you are then told, not to focus on the former life because it's in the past, yet you should be in the present, creating your day.

Did many of you go seeking out a teacher in the form of a parent?. Could any one point to me a child that prospered after coming from under the torture of a tyrant parent?
T

Interesting topic Terry.
Ive heard & read alot about these theories about reincarnation. Sometimes it makes sense to me and in other instances (like those you sites)it sounds absurd. If all our "incarnations" are going on simultaneously (sp?), as Ive also read, and this makes the most sense to me, then here and now is really all we need to deal with. And if I see something happening in my now that goes against every fiber of my being, I have no problem taking action about it.

The one thing that comes to mind in regards to RSE and the more experienced x-ramsters will no doubt have more insight on this than I... is that at my last "event" which was an impromptu event JZ "taught" last fall (06) JZ got to a point in her lecture where she started talking about childhood abuse, and suggesting that people needed to get those issues cleared up, therapy etc.

Now I certainly agree that these issues need to be looked at in order for us to come into a state of wholeness, and I have also spent LOTS of time dealing with my own childhood issues in a variety of ways over the years, still do when necessary.

But I found it a bit ODD to say the least, that at THIS point in the schools journey, that the channel for the "teacher" (the other teacher) would be FINALLY bringing this up... its kind of like... HEY GREAT IDEA JZ, duh????????????????????

Since I have traveled MILES on the childhood issues road, all I needed to hear next was there would be 12-step groups (they could even call them 12-step groups and not get sued!)set up in a tent outside at the next event (spent alot of time on that highway too). This for me (personally) would seem RATHER REDUNDANT towards gaining knowledge and moving into a state of enlightenment.

Also, on quite a few other threads posters have identified and voiced a similar view of how many of the people in the school come from messed up "backgrounds". And as anyone who has spent any time at all in 12-step work and/or therapy knows...many of these similarities make us easy targets, vulnerable in all the right places so-to-speak for more abuse, as our boundaries can remain very FUZZY for lifetimes...

Hey Terry, thanks for starting this thread & for your post. I'll now put my 2-3 cents worth in. I feel very strongly about the issue of accepting that someone is abused because of karma, in that the idea of having to experience something over & over is causing the downward spiral of human consciousness. In Newton's book, "Destiny of Souls", some of the people regressed do talk about these as learning experiences after being abusive in past lives. However, I also have been made aware (I forgot where I read this from) that somehow humans here were started on the system of karmic learning instead of forgiveness. Because this system was already in place, it was decided not to change this system of learning. Well, it's time to change this baloney because (as I see it) this has brought this planet to its environmental & social crisis & has caused a bottleneck & downward spiral of consciousness. If one looks at the history, these downward spirals of civilization have occured over & over (remember the dark ages). If it takes a Soul 4000 years to learn to let go of jealousy alone (Newton's book again) then let's not look at it as only the responsibility of the Souls, but I say the system SUCKS! I say the teachers & the system have failed the student Souls and the planet.
You're quite accurate in your observation Terry that many students have come from abusive home situations & backgrounds. Almost everyone I knew in RSE did. The other thing from Newton's book is that many Souls in their life debriefing have been "overcome" by their host bodies in that past life. However, the Soul (which doesn't take all of it's energy into a body) is still accountable for the damage that was done. It sounds like insanity to me if this is indeed what is expected. It sounds like the whole system of learning on Earth needs revamping from the Elder Council down. So the impression I get is that the genetic/subconscious programming of these bodies can be extremely aggressive & hostile & literally overruns the influence of the Soul. Then it's time for healing modalities to be brought to Earth that can & do facilitate these changes efficiently & quickly. (It shouldn't have to take 50 years to change one miserable program!) If that's the case, then again, the system is inadequate. I'm not saying that we can't learn from difficult situations & lives, but for it to go on & on is in my opinion a travesty. It is apparently a quite complex situation, but I cannot support using extreme pain & horror for learning anymore. In my Self, this is just plain wrong, and for any council or teachers to support this is no longer acceptable to me. What you've remarked on Terry is that those are excuses that are given to continue to allow abuse -- they are justifications. Right on! To me it sounds like "the end justifies the means", and that includes any Council of Elders who supports this. To me that is immoral. According to these case histories of between life regressions by Newton, no one forces the Soul against its will, but the Souls 1st come into being as literally innocent babes. Souls are given suggestions for their growth in each life. Many Souls choose these horrible lives. Again, I look to the teachers & council as to what they support & suggest, as they are what these growing Souls look to for guidance. Maybe all paths are valid, but where does this justification stop?! Well, I've said enough on this thread. Thanks for letting me put my thoughts in. M.

My personal thoughts:

I don't believe in the Law of Karma.
Futhermore, the concept of karma would assume linear thinking only. If the fullness of life and time do transcend time as WE know it, and IF reincarnation is real, then there would be simultaneous existence. That doesn't support that someone did ya dirty in 1500 A.D., during your and their lifetimes, so you're both back now to turn the tide.

My two cents.

I think the karma "excuse" of cause/effect are more of a cop-out for avoiding the reality of this lifetime, which we ARE living. That much we know.

Having said all of that - these are just my thoughts, and not intended to spark debate. I'm not expecting or looking for agreement or disagreement. Just sharing.

Thank you all for you wise words and thoughts -- I really appreciate the post giving me another way of looking at the wheel of incarnation. Yet here is another thought I had while reading the post about 'karma.'

What if, we can incarnate again, (after drifting from this reality/lifetime) back into the same year and time as our birthday, in this life time: lets say you were born here in 1975, past away say 2075, and decided to incarnate again, in the year 1975 on Earth again. Is it possible to incarnate not only in the next lifetime, say, 2069, but, (since the school is about quantum mechanics) incarnate, say, 3053BC, or 1901AD. Meaning, going from one century to another?

And, if say, someone was back in the Ram's time of 35,000 years ago, would the Ram or has anyone heard him say: "I recognize you from my period and, welcome again into this present ncarnation."

If we have this vast quantum of universal field of potentiality, then, anyone, from anyother lifetime with encoded knowledge imprinted on their soul and spirit, should be allow to speak of a previous lifetime that may have some significants on this one.

Just thoughts that came to me as I'd read your responses.

Terry