Are these techniques used by RSE? Has anyone ever had the CD's, DVD's tested? What about the retreats "Soundtrack" and DVD presentations? I've received emails from folks returning from a recent retreat in Yelm and one couple (now ex-rse) said they were told by staff that yes subliminals are played all night. Another couple, still enchanted with RSE. found no problem with the 300 subliminals as they are approved by Ramtha and help reenforce the " teachings". How insidious is this? How do they manipulate the mind so much? Remember when Ramtha says "people say this is a cult and we brainwash you, well your brains need washing!" And we howl, and laugh, and clap--- OUCH YUK.! How do I thoroughly and completely deprogram ? How do you know when the DETOXIFICATION from RSE is finished. I am out of critical phase and actually having some great times with my own outrageousness, enthusiasm, actually feeling love when I look at my loved ones , smiling again, but still have periods were I just feel tainted and wonder what all happened. I got such a lite dose-No Yelm, No JZ/R, Don't tell me this lasts as long as herpes.

In the early 90's the had a teaching called "The List." The items on the list were to be visualized and internally verbalized. There were about 10 main items on the list and you could add your own dreams to practice as an addition to those given by Ramtha.

They included:

I am fabulous wealth and abundance.
I am filled with vital energy.
I am my deeper mind.

The list was practiced lying down on one's back motionless, eyes blindfolded and cpae/blanket covering yourself. We spent an entire 10 day retreat doing nothing other than the list and a bit of dancing to stretch the body.

RSE brought out audiotapes where the audible soundtrack was frogs or rain. The list was on the tapes as subliminals. The detals of what was on the subliminals was on the back cover. One of the subliminals was, "I walk through walls." This part could actually be heard at low volume on the tape. I was not the only one who could hear it.

I can say that after lots of hours of listening to it I still have to use doors like everyone else. When students sleep in the arena they play the list all night.

The first subliminals came out probably about 1993. They still played the subliminals with the frogs in the arena at Assay 6 in August 2005.

The List (CD)
Prior to my beg. retreat,when I signed the "contract" I accepted being informed that subliminals would be used during my retreat. Afet the retreat I bought a copy of the 2005 "The List" which is the sound of frogs and water on the Deschutes river, that they played all night every night at RSE (while I was there 2 weeks), and has (according to the insert) 153 subliminal messages inbedded in it.

Out of the 153 messages on the CD, there are 3 that refer to Ramtha specifically;
61.I remember my life with Ramtha.
62.I remember all that Ramtha taught me in his lifetime.
150. I am everything Ramtha is.

After reading thru them all again, (its been a while since I read them) I have no issue with any of these messages, including the ones regarding Ramtha. All of the messages are completely inline with my own inner aspirations.

Thanks for bringing this topic up, as I had stopped listening to this CD for a while, and I really enjoyed having it on all night. Now that I had again read the insert, I feel better about it.I can trust my inner being to allow me to accept only the highest in regards to what I need to focus on.

All the 153 messages in the insert are acceptable (to me). I wish I could type or copy them here but Ive not got the time...Some of the messages refer specifically to RSE teachings like;
90. I am Blue Body
93. I am Master of Twilight
112. I am Master of the Field
etc. and that feels OK too. Since I was in attendence in RSE when I purchased the CD and I know what these messages are referring too.
The only one I would (personally) take issue with is;
92. I am Shiva the Destroyer
and that is because I am not very knowledgeable on Shiva, and dont like the term "destroyer" (although I have a sense that is because I am not familiar with the Shiva teaching, I am misunderstanding the meaning).

So... even though I am an X RSE student, and its gonna stay that way! I think the "List" CD in particular is fine, even though it has subliminals in it.

I had my first out-of-body experience by listening to the List. I also have no problem with any of the affirmations on the List.

OH yea! Kathleen...
Persoanlly I know we can have Herpes and never have a breakout of any sort

question: why would you assume that the subliminals in the cd/tape/dvd/whatever are those listed on the cover? --- considering that Judy's Ramtha consistently has told you about lying; considering Judy's history of lying.

I am sure this is something that can be verified by using the right audio equipment. (If you listen carefully, you can hear some of the affirmations.)

Anybody out there have something that can check the subliminal affirmations on The List to make sure they match with what is stated on the CD cover?

Since the topic is subliminals, does anyone know anything about backward subliminals? Someone I will refer to as G lived near Yelm, was in RSE and was into that years ago. I never knew if it was taught at RSE but it was a topic on Art Bell's radio show.

Re: Graced's question

Because I want to.

Yeah, Dance, and since Judy specifically listed what was supposed to be on the tape, and if it could be proven scientifically that the tape actually contained "harmful" statements that were not listed, that could (in my opinion) be grounds for a lawsuit/bad publicity that could get RSE shut down. I think Judy's too smart for that.

In 1994 JZ invited Eldon Taylor to speak at RSE. His company, Progressive Awareness, manufactures subliminal messages embedded in music. The RSE staff created the "List" and Mr Taylor agreed to make a special tape just for RSE students. Debbie Christie adapted it to various soundtracks.

I played the List every night for 11 years.I memorized the List and repeated it out loud daily.I also used Mr. Taylor's subliminal program for computer screens. And I'm still here to tell you about it. Another unfulfilled RSE promise.

I remember "Ramtha" saying that Eldon Taylor is on to something and that this will work. For certain, the one thing that has worked is that JZ made money selling all those tapes.

Re: Wanna
I am not familiar with Eldon Taylor. Did you also buy his subliminal program for computer screens? or was it a free download?

Personally, I am sure no-one promised me anything in regards to "the List" Cd. I want to believe those things work and some have been proven, right? Like subliminal shots of popcorn during movies at the theatre? I am not sure if there have been any "studies" on audio subliminals vs. visusl ones...
Does anyone know?

As for JZ and or Eldon making money, I too enjoy having money, JZ is in business and that's what people in business do. I dont have issues with JZ being rich and growing her abundant lifestyle, in fact in regards to what she teaches, it would be REAL uncool for her to be living in poverty.

The issues I have had with the school involve, abusive (and alcoholic)behavior on the part of the teacher and staff, MAJOR descrepancies in whose "Teachings" Ramtha's teachings really are/were, and the basic integrity of those "teachings".

I love wealth and intend to keep it in my life, in a variety of fashions, so it doesnt bother me that JZ "sells" anything. I dont have to buy any of it unless I want to. I did find it a bit alarming to see a "fashion show" of RSE accessories at the end of an "Event" on enlightenment... but HEY what can you expect? Its pretty much in keeping with the general "Theme" of the school these days!

"question: why would you assume that the subliminals in the cd/tape/dvd/whatever are those listed on the cover? --- considering that Judy's Ramtha consistently has told you about lying; considering Judy's history of lying."

Unless one knows for sure what the subliminals are why would anyone listen to them???? - Why are you so trusting?? hasn't being in this school taught us to question everything? I, for one am done with believing without proof -

I've just finish listening to:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3944028980899846516&hl=en
..and well, saw it as people wanting to move on with their lives. Personally, what I've learnt at my only Beg Retreat was that I didn't care if H.R.Puffinstuff was up there speaking or being channeled; I was appreciating what was being said and left it at that.

About the list. Someone mentioned that after listening to the list that they still had to use a door to enter/exit another room and couldn't walk through walls> here again, I personally don't care about walking through walls. I got the list for certain things on it that resonated with who/what I Am and have decided to be.

I play the list as I'm going to bed at night with earphones on and the list is the first thing I'm hearing as I am waking up and my subconsciouness is still wide awake. Have I (after doing this for 3wks) felt and are experineces some wonderful things by doing this: Yes! Something is happening, and/or has happen and I like the way I feel now. Can I attribute this to listening to the listen (through my earphones/headphones) all night even while I'm asleep and waking up? -possible.

So long as what's written on the insleeve of the CD 'The List on the Deschutes River' is being played subliminally: then I'll like to know if there isn't any other subliminals being played (underneath) that is not written on the in-sleeve. So long as nothing else isn't being slipped in the subconsciousness, other then was is written on the in-sleeve that says, this is what being said under the river and frogs.

Terry

It is not hard to feel good if one has spent time previously being told that the way they knew the world before is not the "right way" and that one needs to go to a "mystery school" to become what they have been stripped of.

On another thread I gave the hot and cold water senario.

The denigration of ones everyday social consciousness and then the replacement of the "school consciousness" is a manipulation of the environment which in turn leads to a manipulation of feeling.

Make ones one tape, one list, ones one life. Then one is about as sovereign as it gets.

A most interesting topic thread thank you Kathleen..

We would be wise to take heed of WannaKnow’s experience…..

Judy’s lightbulb came on when she realized she'd could pry a few more dollars off those
that could least afford it by hawking those RSE subliminal tapes.

Initially I was very impressed with Eldon Tailors talk at the Ranch,
I even bought his book and convert my recording studio into a personalized subliminal tape service for the Yelm community.
According to Eldon Tailor… subliminal messages are more effective if the voice is that of the person listening…
the theory goes something like this..
our unconscious mind hears and is affected way beyond our conscious mind…
The mechanics of making a subliminal tape are as follows…
The affirmations are recorded slowly and clearly, repeated approximately 5-10 times, forward speech ‘left ear” and reverse speech “right ear”, mixed just below the threshold of hearing within the calm-e -fiying sound of music or nature sounds.
It seemed such a brilliant and easy way to create positive change in our lives..
But to date..
I know of nobody that benefited from my subliminal studio services or the RSE tapes,
Except for JZ Knight, who is adept at making a fortune selling snake oil. One thing I have noticed is just how utterly narcissistic the RSE affirmations actually are.
Perhaps this is a clue to why they don't work.
In the end I threw my tapes in the garbage bin… it was like Chinese water torture listening to those **** frogs and that Deschutes River running all night..
night after night after night……….I'm sure it sent a few people over the top...
Dark chuckle.


RSE Inc is still selling Eldon Tailors book.

Hero is a portion of the affirmations on the RSE subliminal recording
Sold as the “The List”.

I am……the following
Filled with vital energy
Unconditional love
Worthy
Immortal
Unlimited wealth and abundance
Master of manifesting objects in my hand
A time traveler
An alchemist
Genius mind
Master of the field
Master of the dance
I accomplish the labyrinth
Master of remote view
Greater than my genetic programming
I cease to age.
Radiant health and vitality
Master of “Twilight”
I can access my blue body at will
I can move objects with my mind
I walk through walls
I remember my past lives
I remember my life with Ramtha
I have visions of the golden plane of paradise
I know the future and make my choices accordingly
I know the thoughts of others
All my debts are paid
I can see things others do not
Etc...

P.S.
Thank you Christel.

David

David,
What if they DID work? Would you actually believe ANYONE who said they did work?
What if all the effort YOU put into the subliminal experience actually DID produce effective results in someones life?
Would you even belive it at this point???????

question: If the list works, how come Judy has not demonstrated such qualities as:
Filled with vital energy
Unconditional love
Immortal
Master of the field
I accomplish the labyrinth
Master of remote view
Greater than my genetic programming
I cease to age.
Radiant health and vitality
I can move objects with my mind
I walk through walls
? ?

another question: It is the experience of myself and reported by others that 'the labyrinth' is 'fixed' - i.e. certain people are led/moved/allowed/shown to the 'void'. Does the list teach how to convince staff to let you in?

"another question: It is the experience of myself and reported by others that 'the labyrinth' is 'fixed' - i.e. certain people are led/moved/allowed/shown to the 'void'. Does the list teach how to convince staff to let you in?"


No, sounds more like it is supposed to help you belive that you walked through the walls rather then the panels had been moved for you @ r/JZs orders

Re: Hypnosis/ The subconscious mind, does not judge things to be good, bad, or indifferent. It just accepts what is receives. This is the problem, we can use the subconscious to help us in many ways, if we realized we are the General! Every experience we have ever had, is recorded by the subconscious, and painful thoughts and exp. can be healed, when we take control of the subconscious. Important Note: the subconscious mind never sleeps, so please use caution when you input data while asleep. fyi---your subconscious will respond and help, for you are in CHARGE. take care

DanceTheWind,

Q.
”What if they DID work? Would you actually believe ANYONE who said they did work?”

Whatever the case…
I hope my conscience will be my guide..
Especially when I am told…
What to think, what to feel, and how to behave.
For it is love that creates life…
no matter what reality we choose to make of it.

The insidiousness of mind control is that it would have a person believe
they are freely choosing their own thoughts, feelings and actions.

David.

hmmm... OK David, Thanks.
Also David, you might know, can you separate the subliminals from the music and hear them after they've been mixed? Someone asked this earlier on this thread... it may have even been me!

Using myself as the litmus test, I suspect the subliminals to be anything but neutral &/ positive. I was naive to think I could innocently explore what RSE had to offer, come home and sort out what I wanted to keep and let go of the rest. My goal was to enhance not lose touch with all that was happy good and great in my life. Thought I was on a safe virtuous tourbus and in reality I signed on for a deceitfilled freight train of duplicity that subtly, but with great velocity hurls you in the opposite direction of what they state as their teachings. RSE does not have a level playing field and their game is dirty.

My results sucked. I became everything I did not want to be-an unkind, detached, agenda riddled, selfcentered in a variety of unattractive arrogant ways, isolated, unloving etc. etc. So I know how to reverse that and get back on track and I am doing so. I am interested in how I was so blindsided to even go there and prevention in the future. In retrospect I remember the canary in my MIND screaming at me during the beg retreat to be on guard- it's not red flags it's wisdom speaking-(JZ cannot cancel due to exhaustion and then have any credibility with blue body healing, it's a big fat BLEEP you, etc.), The movie "Bleep" is pseudo science threaded with dogma, just like RSE. OK fine I'm done with it all. But I am mad at this mental fight with a useless, unimpeccable, no-integrity at all, scamschool, it's such a waste of time and energy and I need every ounce of me to move forward. Get this bully out of my brain.

Hence my curiousity about subliminals. Thanks for the place to unload and rant.

Graced, I have not witnessed the list, nor the stated subliminals working for anyone. If it did there would be no need to constantly update the disciplines with another new miracle producing technique.

Over the years there have been so many disciplines that students were supposed to do daily that many were so confused they did not know which ones to apply.

Ramtha told students to do the list two or three times a day.

The disciplines I can think of are:

The Consciousness and Energy Breath technique
Field work
The Dance (serpent)
The Blue Body dance
Twilight and the list
Candle Focus
Mirror work (I was not involved in this)

Visualizations:
The one with the beach and lying on the shore
Another where you walk down stairs and knock on the door of the subconscious mind

The Legacy Walk
The Grid
Torsion process (Tornado)
Create Your Day

Then there are the aids to all of these disciplines.
The one's I can think of are:

Red wine
Tobacco
Prozac
Hudson's white powder gold
The miracle sea water given by some alchemist (my friend told me I was not involved)
Subliminals

It seems that Consciousness and Energy creates a dependency.

There was also an exercise where students went into the future to bring back the technology there. I was not present for the exercise but had a blue college partner that told me about it and attended evenings where reference to what they had done was made. Anyone seen any Starfleet technology around Yelm?

I have seen students so busy trying to pay next months rent they do not have time to wade their way through the confusion. Then they think the best shortcut is to drink a lot as a tool instead. They simply cannot carry out all of the "homework" in their lives.

Great point David about living by one's conscience.

Christel, LOL
"Then there are the aids to all of these disciplines.
The one's I can think of are:

Red wine
Tobacco
Prozac
Hudson's white powder gold
The miracle sea water given by some alchemist (my friend told me I was not involved)
Subliminals"

THAT was great!!! Thanks Made my day!

"For it is love that creates life…"

Well said, David - I totally agree!!!

So how do you dispose of all this toxic waste cd/dvd/books?
I hate to sell on Ebay and infect anyone else with this lingering virus.
Maybe hang as organic scarecrows in the garden? But do the "pests" deserve such treatment?

Kathleen, you are so funny, i sold my tapes years ago to RSE students. I have a few books, but that is it. Why not get some of your money back. I sold some of the master connection.

Kathleen, you are so funny, I sold my tapes years ago to RSE students. I have a few books, but that is it. Why not get some of your money back. I sold some of the items on master connection.

In the 1970s my old cult leaders claimed (through channeled messages from the Masters--think 'Ramtha') that subliminal messages and commands in advertising and in government propaganda films "worked." The remedy was to "decree' (chant mantras designed by the cult) to protect oneself. The decrees really worked---I used to do it!! Clever, eh?. To me now it was kind of like wolfbane---put some on your windowsill, and no werewolves will attack your home.

All the believeable research shows that subliminals do not work. To use a metaphor, if subliminal signals worked, my pet black cat would never catch a rodent or bird----she's 14, hunts every day and has eaten half her meals al la nature.

This site has a good summary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_message

The entire subliminal concept has become a proverbial joke in modern culture, for good reason. Some people still don't get it....the punch line, I mean.

Joe

Hi All! Kathleen, I too did not have a good experience with the RSE List subliminals. Whenever I listened to them all night (which I did for quite a while) I would wake up angry the next morning. Even if there's nothing in the subliminals that is adverse, some part of my mind was probably sending me warning signals. I finally stopped listening to it when I put 2+2 together to realize that I felt angry when I listened to them. M.

Kathleen,
What to do with the toxic waste of books/cds/tapes?

Send it to JZ requesting a refund. The state of Washington has strong consumer protection laws. Don't let JZ's illegal "No refunds, no transfers policy" influence your behavior. Get your money back.

Kathleen - if you have audio tapes from prior to 1989, and if David agrees, send them to David. Some posters here have demanded specific quotes as "proof" from the 'old days'. In '93 I sent my tapes to a professor in Canada who wanted to have original source material for a future grad student to do a study on the Judy phenomena. It's possible he would want some more contemporary tapes. I'll check. In other words - how can we transmute the toxic waste to work for healing.

Joe said, "The entire subliminal concept has become a proverbial joke in modern culture, for good reason. Some people still don't get it....the punch line, I mean."

But JZ gets it. Lots of it...selling the subliminals.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

They Call It Hypnosis by Robert A. Baker

c 1990 Baker describes what hypnosis is and is not, what it can accomplish and how it can be abused. This book is highly readable with comprehensive footnotes. Understanding the history of hypnosis is very helpful.

After reading the above, I did some homework and came across and article written by Eldon Taylor with regards to 'subliminals.' Like most things, getting out of your own way, is the way, by which, anything will work out for you. And whether we want to admit it or not; we've all been programmed subliminally from the crib on up, by parents, religion, peers, government, and our communities and cultures. So who here can say they are are really free, when none, really havn't experiences total freedom from the influences implemented from ages enfant to 7 years old.

Here's the article that says there is validity in subliminals yet, these are not considered as subliminals:
http://www.innertalk.com/downloads/subtech.html

Continued Wealth,
Terry

DanceTheWind,

Apologies for my delay in replying..

Q
can you separate the subliminals from the music and hear them after they've been mixed?

There are software programs that can apparently remove the vocal track from the music, ”useful for karaoke singers”, so it wouldn't surprise me if were possible to separate the spoken word from the other recorded sounds,
using such things as compression EQ’s etc.
When I was recording subliminal messages I set the backward voice louder in the mix, it is sometimes possible that reversing the track will reveal the subliminal message that was recorded in reverse.
But… It has been my experience that subliminal messages do not work “backward or forward”.
But what certainly does work is mind control… also called…. Brain washing, Coercive persuasion Or Thought reform.
Judith has learnt many of those techniques by camouflaging them as spiritual disciplines and clever metaphors..
That bedazzle the mind.. Blind the heart…
And empty your purse.

David.


Here is some info on the thread subject…. SUBLIMINALS, BRAIN-WASHING, HYPNOSIS


Thought reform is not mysterious. It is the systematic application of psychological and social influence techniques in an organized programmatic way within a constructed and managed environments (5,7,8,9,10). The goal is to produce specific attitudinal and behavioral changes. The changes occur incrementally without its being patently visible to those undergoing the process that their attitudes and behavior are being changed a step at a time according to the plan of those directing the program.


United States v. Lee 455 U.S. 252, 257-258 (1982), the California Supreme Court found that…….
"when a person is subjected to coercive persuasion without his knowledge or consent... [he may] develop serious and sometimes irreversible physical and psychiatric disorders, up to and including schizophrenia, self-mutilation, and suicide."




THE PURPOSES AND TACTICS OF COERCIVE PERSUASION

Coercive persuasion or thought reform as it is sometimes known, is best understood as a coordinated system of graduated coercive influence and behavior control designed to deceptively and surreptitiously manipulate and influence individuals, usually in a group setting, in order for the originators of the program to profit in some way, normally financially or politically.
The essential strategy used by those operating such programs is to systematically select, sequence and coordinate numerous coercive persuasion tactics over CONTINUOUS PERIODS OF TIME. There are seven main tactic types found in various combinations in a coercive persuasion program. A coercive persuasion program can still be quite effective without the presence of ALL seven of these tactic types.

TACTIC 1. The individual is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as: A. Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine activities; C. Decreased sleep; D. Nutritional restriction.

TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a person's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered. (In the forerunner to coercive persuasion, brainwashing, this was rather easy to achieve through simple imprisonment.)

TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.

TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a person to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their life's history, and adopt a new version of causality.

TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a person's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness.

TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, etc.

TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.).
Another set of criteria has to do with defining other common elements of mind control systems. If most of Robert Jay Lifton's eight point model of thought reform is being used in a cultic organization, it is most likely a dangerous and destructive cult. These eight points follow:

Robert Jay Lifton's Eight Point Model of Thought Reform
1. ENVIRONMENT CONTROL. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are taboo. "Come out and be separate!"

2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the
group through a profound encounter / experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word of those in the group.

3. DEMAND FOR PURITY. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or
personal level. "Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed."

4. CULT OF CONFESSION. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.

5. SACRED SCIENCE. The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required.

6. LOADED LANGUAGE. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract
and narrow parameters of the group's doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a "black and white" mentality. Loaded terms and clichés prejudice thinking.

7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.

8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE. Salvation is possible only in the group. Those who leave the group are doomed.

From FactNet http://www.factnet.org/rancho1.htm

Thanks David

Thanks David. I'm appalled! The 1st set of 7 criteria are all used by RSE. In the 2nd set, they use 7 out of the 8. The 1st one is not as extreme as those required to live in the "ashram" or whatever that are not allowed to make any outside contact. Those very results mentioned by the court are what I have experienced & seen in any number of people I knew & know in RSE. It scares the **** out of me to think that this really is a dangerous & destructive cult. It scares me to realize how distorted my thinking had become. M.

That clears up ALOT-thanks. Now it's so easy to see how RSE spins it's tenacious sticky web ( a la shimmering blue ), using everyone of those methods. Wow, they didn't miss a one, I can see the flow of the entire beg, retreat with new eyes now. Also why I experienced such extreme contradictory results- it felt more like a cocoon than a butterfly for sure. Clever how the "doubt is a barrier in the brain to leave the box" and " you have to remove your past to have the RSE future" are the exact tools you need to get the flock outta there. This insidious duplicity has got to be her way to spell fun too, as there's easier ways to make $$$. Is the teaching staff aware of the real agenda or are they really viewing their lives as remotely as they appear? I was shocked at Mike Wright's inability to answer a question directly, he could only regurgitate stock answers that were obviously not part of his experience. His declaration that all the anorexia/bulimics will incarnate in Africa was memorable though. RSE- Leave your remarkable life behind-step into my web.

Graced, I'd be happy to pass along to David any cd's he wants or needs for the record. A few cd's seem to be from older audio cassettes the rest are newer I think. I'm zippin off on a quick trip but only gone a week. Let me know.

EyesWideOpen, thanks for the tip on returning. Whatever David doesn't want I'd love to return, can you imagine a flood of stuff pouring back to where it belongs? Anyway, would I just send directly? include letter? Is their a procedure to follow to guarantee I receive $$ back?

I be smilin' now. Thanks.

At our LARSE gathering last September Joe Szimhart spoke about “triggers” and dissociation.

Triggers can be any group-associated symbol, image, sound, song, spoken word, word, smell, movie, name, etc, that causes an ex-member to dissociate, get angry, feel fear, daydream, or react in a way that feels out of control.

Most of these reactions in most ex-members fade with normal resocialization in a year or so, but if any linger or cause PTSD symptoms like nightmares and panic attacks, it helps to get seek professional guidance.

What is dissociation?
Dissociation is a disturbance in the normally integrative functions of identity, memory or consciousness.
It is also known as a trance state. It is a very normal defense mechanism. You’ve all probably heard of how a child being abused dissociates—or persons in the midst of traumatic experiences. Those are natural occurrences to an unnatural event.
What are some of the events in the life of a cult member that may bring on dissociation?
• Stress of maintaining beliefs
• Stress of constant activities
• Diet/sleep deprivation
• Discordant noises — conflicts
• Never knowing what’s next
There are many, many ways to produce a dissociative or trance state:
• Drugs
• Alcohol
• Physical stress (long distance running)
• Hyperventilation
• Rhythmic voice patterns or noises (drumming)
• Chanting
• Empty-minded meditation
• Speaking in tongues
• Long prayers
• Guided visualizations
• “imagine…”
• confrontational sessions (hot seat, auditing, struggle sessions)
• decreeing
• hypnotism or “processes”
• hyper arousal—usually into a negative state so the leaders can rescue you (ICC confessions)
• Ericksonian hypnosis (Milton Erickson) hypnotic trance without a formal trance induction
Before I describe how Ericksonian hypnosis works, why are we so concerned about trance states?
• Individuals don’t process information normally in trance states
• Critical thinking—the arguing self—is turned off
• Also turned off are reflection, independent judgment, decision-making
• In trance you are dealing with the subconscious mind which has no way to tell the difference between something imagined or reality—it becomes a real experience which is interpreted for you by the group ideology.
• Once in a trance, people have visions or may “hear” sounds—that are later interpreted for you in the context of the cult mindset—the “magic” while in reality they are PURPOSELY MANUFACTURED PHYSIOLOGICAL REACTIONS TO THE TRANCE STATE.
• While in trance you are more suggestible—not just during trance but for a period of time up to 2 hours after.
• When a person dissociates it becomes easier and easier to enter into a dissociative state — it can become a habit—and it can become uncontrollable.

From....
http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_articles/giambalvo_carol_copingwithtriggersandptsd.htm

Information about triggers.

http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_articles/giambalvo_carol_copingwithtriggersandptsd.htm

http://www.factnet.org/Margaret_Thaler_Singer/Post_Cult_After_Effects.html

http://hometown.aol.com/carol2180/coping.htm

Joe Szimhart http://home.dejazzd.com/jszimhart

Thanks Joe.

Yes, David's posts provide insight into the RSE agenda. Here are some books, all of them true stories that provide contextual insight into the RSE agenda. In some ways it is easier to read about another organization because there is less personal emotion involved yet the parallels are obvious.

When Prophecy Fails: Study of a Modern Group that Predicted the Destruction of the World
c 1956 by Leon Festinger, Henry W. Riecken, Stanley Schacter

These 3 social scientists from the University of Minnesota infiltrated a group whose leader channeled information from beings in outer space. The leader was predicting the end of the world on a specific date. The scientists studied the effect of "disconfirmation" - how a group member reacted when s/he received information which disconfirmed the leader's predictions. This study was published in 1956 and is a short, fascinating read. Got it from my library.


Bhagwan The God That Failed
c 1986, 1987 by Hugh Milne

Hugh Milne was a bodyguard and true believer in Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, later known as OSHO. In his position of bodyguard he saw too many inconsistencies and it became harder and harder to believe. What makes this story compelling is Hugh's description of his inner experiences which conflicted with external reality.

The Buddha From Brooklyn: A Tale of Spiritual Seduction
by Martha Sherrill

The author, a Washington Post reporter, wrote a very factual account describing the ascent to power of Catherine Burroughs, a woman who started out as a housewife and ended up the leader of the largest Tibetan Buddhist monastery in the U.S. Read all about her obsession with her appearance, her addiction to men, her insatiable thirst for money and the sometimes cruel manipulation of her naive followers.


400 Years of Imaginary Friends: A Journey Into the World of Adepts, Masters, Ascended Masters and Their Messengers
c 2000 by Kenneth and Talita Paolini

This out of print book was obtained through inter-library loan and is worth the wait. Kenneth and Talita were both devoted members of Elizabeth Clare Prophet's Church Universal and Triumphant. He was a bodyguard, she was a teacher and part of the book is the riveting story of their indoctrination. The rest of the book is an excellent historical account of various "Masters" and their origin. Enlightening reading.

Funny how the real insight and enlightening information becomes clear and accessible upon disposing of RSE. I'm now acutely aware of a proclivity and vunerability to "spiritual Seduction" and it's a relief to stop seeking and become ruthlessly discerning with myself. I have listened to Abraham ( called 'em Ramtha-lite) now I realize it's still "beer", Not easy to honestly look at (but I will) how I enchanted, mesmerized,and deluded myself in this arena and utilized very effective critical thinking most everywhere else. Perhaps RSE was the homeopathic dose of poison to uproot this Achilles' Heel of mine. Good and glad to finally know.

I told family and friends I was going to Hogwarts rather than say RSE aloud for gods sake, But why did I miss the part about Voldemort, cunning, manipulative, power-mad, strategies, deaths etc. Ha. Ha. Well Harry Potter is over this summer too.

The simple, humble, and ordinary is more beautiful than I ever realized.

Combatting Mind Control by Stevan Hassan (1990) identifies 4 forms of control exerted on unwitting participants.

Behavior control, thought control, emotional control, information control.

How are these practiced at RSE?

Behavior control: In order to be a "current student" one must attend a minimum of 2 events/year and is told which 2. Once at the events, all of the students' time is directed by JZ (often under the false pretense of "These instructions are from 'Ramtha'.") The property is secured and one may not enter or leave without permission i.e.,the gates opened. During events, a student is told when to eat, when to sleep and when showers are available. JZ instructs students to support the businesses of other students and to shop at her stores.

Thought control: All of the disciplines "taught" (substitute the correct word indoctrinated) at RSE are known as thought-stopping rituals. A thought-stopping ritual is something that one does over and over and over and over and over (feeling familiar?) A student learns to use thought-stopping on oneself and it is the first discipline taught at RSE - focus. The purpose of focus is to not allow any other thoughts to enter one's mind, including the question, "Is this a good idea?" For anyone, the ability to concentrate is a useful tool and one that promotes intelligence. Yet in a cult we find useful tools taken to an extreme where they are then used to control and manipulate. Thought-stopping prevents analysis, questioning, logic and reality testing. At RSE, all of these things are called DOUBT and doubt is not allowed (behavior control.) RSE sold a tape in the 80's titled, NEVER DOUBT.

Emotional control: The past has no validity is a foundational teaching at RSE. The purpose of this is to disconnect the student from their reality in order to make them more vulnerable and open to the teaching (substitute the correct word control) of JZ and her puppet, "Ramtha." The emotional body is another foundational teaching (indoctrination) at RSE. It is taught that emotions are to be controlled by applying focus (thought-stopping.) The effect of this is to narrow the range of a person's feelings which results in less information and greater vulnerability.


Information control: "This is my truth," is frequently spoken by RSE students (unwitting participants.) It is a method for training students to block any information critical of JZ/Ramtha/RSE. This method restricts incoming information. RSE also restricts outgoing information in the form of restricted tapes, requiring students to sign coercive documents promising not to reveal information gained at events. It all reduces to the same thing: control, control, control.

Kathleen posted, "Funny how the real insight and enlightening information becomes clear and accessible upon disposing of RSE."

Exactly.
It's also along the line of last September's gathering, L.A.R.S.E. was....LIFE AFTER RSE !

It's amazing how current students believe that they are so openminded, when it's only within the paradigm of "What's acceptable" to think, do or say that is RSE approved. They're actually mind controlled and closed minded to anything outside of that school; accepting only the RSE dogma. One time a couple of years ago, Ramtha asked the audience if they thought there was a social consciousness WITHIN the school. Well, I burst out laughing, because it was clear for me to say that there sure is a social consciousness. Reminds me of high school !

Ramtha did also say that there is a social consciousness in the school. As someone else mentioned, I did also hear him say that we need our brains to be washed. Slick.

400 Years of Imaginary Friends is really an illuminating book. As Wanna mentioned, because it is out of print the next best option is INTER LIBRARY LOAN. Call your library and ask the librarian to request it from another library for you. There is usually no charge although sometimes the sending library will ask you to pay for the postage. The librarian has access to every library in the US so any book you want can be ortained using this method.