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I would like to start a thread containing only personal experiences that point at the inconsistencies and evidence to support the theory of the possible fraud of JZ/R. This site is littered with first hand experiences and evidence to support this that if I, as a questioning member of RSE, had in one location, would better assisted me in making my decision to not attend RSE. If you have a piece of information or personal account of anything that points to this and are willing to share, this is the thread to do so.
Please limit your stories to ones that are YOUR EXPERIENCE. Heresay can ruin the intention of this thread. Please be as descriptive as possible to include dates and names and if referring to inconsistencies, include all information to support your position. If you dont know exactly, state so.
Please limit your opinion and let the evidence of the facts speak for themselves. Let the reader decipher the meaning for themselves.
If you are providing information to contradict any teaching or claim, please cite your references. The school claims to teach a unique philosophy and "ramtha's" model of science so if you have information to contradict this, please provide your sources.
This will help any questioning and potential students of RSE make an informed decision.
My first red flag came early in my RSE experience. At my beginners retreat in Summer '06, Ramtha went into a lengthy description of how he was not in the body but controlling the body of JZ from outside and was in total control of the body as she had left it. About 20 min later JZ/R went into a sneezing fit. Several sneezes in a row then JZ/R COMMANDED this to stop with a gesture under her/his nose. Pause; Then 2 more sneezes. "Total control?" I said to myself. Hmmm. Why cant a God stop a sneeze?
At my follow up retreat, we were asked by the teacher to go to the other side of the room and pick a partner for sending and receiving. I picked a man who looked to me to be focused and intent on the dicipline. I introduced myself and shared some small talk. I learned he was a 20 yr plus student. I was now really excited for the success because I new I was focsued and I was working with a master with a lot of experience. We were very intent and focused. Once the dicipline started, we got into deep concentration studying each others faces and the small talk ceased. There was an obvious deep concentration. Through out the entire session of say 4 items sent and received each, not one was correct. Not even close. I learned after the end of this session, my partner was a teacher at the school. His name was Greg Simmons. I can understand why I may have not come up with anything as a novice but a person with 2o years should have been at least close on 1. I immediately questioned the progressiveness of a 20 year "teacher" who couldnt demonstrate any level of success in what I was told is a basic dicipline. HMMMMMM
To all readers of this thread. If you are lookg for a great list of information regarding the content of What The Bleep, read the thread titled
"The use (or misuse) of science to validate r/JZ's teachings "
and you will read for yourself the links that question the presentation and content of the scientists as well as the comprimising position RSE has in the making and funding of the movie.
Kind of like having the cigarette company fund a research project on the health benefits of smoking.
Thanks for the info whatcha.
Truth seeker, I never write anything that I am not cetain is correct. If I hear information from another I do not post it unless I hear it from other sources also, or I have had an experience that strongly supports what they are saying.
People can have memory loss and have poor recollection over time and facts do get distorted as a result.
I started to write a piece and found it too constricting to be forbidden to write anything that could be interpreted as heresay as the information may come from a very well known long term associate that I know is not lying.
I have no enthusiasm to write under such severe constrictions.
In the video set Two Paths Judy's Ramtha adamantly claims that obviously "HeRamtha" is in charge of the body - as evidenced by the fact that HeRamtha could consume 4 bottles of wine and not be 'at effect' of it - because Shehis daughter a mere human being couldn't drink that much wine and not be at effect. Judy's Ramtha proceeded to slur words and mispronounce words.
In the video "Where Angels Fear to Tread" Judy's Ramtha is obviously drunk.
Other posters have presented their personal experiences regarding a drunk Judy'sRamtha - including vomiting on stage, and falling over people when walking around. I did NOT witness this behavior. I did see the videos - as can anyone else.
Thank-you for all the personal e-mails. I can understand your position CHRISTEL in not wanting to post under what appears to you to be limiting conditions. These limits will help purify the information read by current or prosepctive student who have doubts. If I had a place that consolidated the personal stories and accounts, while removing the heresay and victim mentality that seems to ooze from some posts, I may have had an easier time in making my decision.
If any person feels the need to cut and paste anything I have written and/or disagrees with me on any point here, please e-mail me directly and keep this post clean of attack and clutter.
Heresay can be equally destructive to a position as it can not be validated and leaves room for doubt. But, in this forum, not being a court of law but merely informative, PROBATIVE VALUE can ad value. I would say for the intent of this thread only, 1st hand stories told to you about the story tellers experience are ok but should be stated that this is a 2nd hand story shared by you but experienced by another friend/family member. Please limit it to this.
This should encourage people who have had stories shared with them from personal friends who have actually experienced or witnessed an event, to come forward and share.
Question for David:
Graced mentions 2 videos that show a drunk Ramtha. Would it be possible at a future private LARSE gathering to show those portions of those videos? Perhaps they could be shown after the gathering to any who are interested, as you did at the picnic.
I left the school before the heavy-duty wine drinking began. I attended many events in the 1980s in which wine ceremonies consisted of many individual glasses of wine being set up on the stage, and Ramtha instructed us to find our own glass. We would use our knowingness and take the glass we felt drawn to. Then Ramtha would give an invocation, and we would drink that one glass, only.
As I post here mainly to offer information that contrasts the Ramtha I experienced back then with the Ramtha of today, it would help me to see for myself the drunken Ramtha that so many here have talked about.
A great thread…Thank you.
I would like to add a few words of caution.
You added a caveat.. Not to post from a “victim mentality” ..
You are inferring that an emotional condition invalidates a posters experience…
This term “victim mentality” is often used by “Ramtha” to do exactly that..
to invalidate an accusation of abuse…
Just as damaging is RSE's systematic crushing of emotions to enforce the indoctrinations.
I would advise our posters not to ignore their “victim mentality” and perhaps..
they will hear the “canary in the coalmine” sing again?
And free themselves and the canary from its cage.
“Would it be possible at a future private LARSE gathering to show those portions of those videos?”
Yes... I have those videos..
This would be very educational...
A "Ramtha" quote...Prozac isn't a drug…
RSE Primary Retreat, March 26, 2000.
Hi -- thanks for starting this thread Truth-seeker. I will make posts occasionally, but details such as dates & specific events may not be included. I was in from 1989-2000. There are too many to remember which event. I do recall being at an event (which was within the 1st 3-4 years) when Ram said that there wasn't any E.T.'s helping him; he was in this alone. Several years later at another event he said, "I have help. I'm not alone in this, don't you know?" Just the opposite. Also re: the Blue Body teachings. I was there at the 1st event it was taught. I latched onto it & lived, ate, breathed this everyday of my life from then (1993 or '94?) to after the time I left the school. We were told that it would cure any disease. It has done nothing to cure my digestive disorder or the gallstones I had, which necessitated my gallbladder being removed. M.
Onehand wrote: "I attended many events in the 1980s in which wine ceremonies consisted of many individual glasses of wine being set up on the stage, and Ramtha instructed us to find our own glass. We would use our knowingness and take the glass we felt drawn to. "
Here is a 180 degree turn around from the "olden days" with regard to wine drinking. In the last 10 (give or take a few) years, when the wine ceremonies became more commonplace, along with the Truth Teachings (overt humiliation of various students for their "own good"), the wine was drunk by the bottle.
Ramtha told students exactly when to FILL THEIR CUPS. This could mean filling a 4 ounce cup or a 16 ounce cup. Then, partners were commanded to look at their partner's cup to be sure it was full to the brim. Once told to drink up, students were to drink the entire volume of wine at that time. This would go on for hours, and it was common to be coerced in this fashion until 1 - 2 bottles of wine were consumed.
Upon arriving at the event, staff passed out large plastic bags in which students were to attempt to be neat - and vomit into the bag. Why do people vomit when drinking ? Because the blood alcohol levels become toxic and the body is attempting to empty the stomach to protect one.
Yet, despite this medically known information, students were told that if they vomited, they did so because they had some form of negativity, that they were cleansing it all out.
Hmmm...I wonder what Ramtha was cleansing out when he vomited all over the stage in front of a close friend of mine ? Why wasn't he in control of the body, when he claims he is ? Students are not in control if they vomit, so he can't be any different.
While I'm on the subject of body functions: students are also ridiculed (sometimes in front of the entire audience) if they get up to go urinate during a lecture that is hours and hours in length. They are told that they just want to get up and avoid what is being said (and other excuses). AND...if you are not very evolved, you still need to sleep, and eat.
I'm not joking or being sarcastic.
The only people I know who don't need to eat or drink or go to the bathroom, are dead ones. If there are masters on this planet who truly live in a body and don't have to perform these functions, I'd like to meet them.
At a retreat not too long ago we were walking from the Arena to the Field and I was near the front of the pack in proximity to a Red Guard. Out of nowhere I heard a voice which said, "Tell them to sit down." I looked around but found no one talking. Then I heard it again, louder, "I SAID TELL THEM TO SIT DOWN." I realized that the yelling was coming out of the Red Guard's ear. It was JZ telling the Red Guard, "TELL THEM TO SIT DOWN!" As the majority of the group was not yet on the field he ignored her while I looked up at the house. She was nowhere to be seen but I sure could hear her. I wondered how often they cover for her.
Students have been told many times that even when Ramtha is not "on the field", or "in the body", that he is there. That he talks to JZ and she sends the messages down to the staff to pass along to students.
ALWAYS an excuse. I have heard her admit that she spies on students from her house or yard, with high powered binoculars. She also would evaluate and comment on how well they did, or did not do, especially with field work. I am not interested in her opinion of how I am doing. She has not proven she is an enlightened being, so she's not qualified to have an opinion of how I am doing...or anyone else that is there, either. That is MY opinion, LOL.
I personally was at a event, which was a celebration of ending Ramtha teaching the 2-day introduction to the school. He said that he would no longer teach that event. That night, I was on the side in the second roll of the stage and Ramthat got drunk and begin to vomit on the stage several times. Linda Evans got up went behind him before the hair was a mess and she was trying to help. The red guards took Ramtha out of the arena, two guards because he was unable to walk out.. One guard was Robert Jones and the other, I don't know his name, only his face. Linda was behind them and Ramtha was completely drunk, hair and makeup was a mess. I personally saw the whole thing.
I personally was at a event, which was a celebration of ending Ramtha teaching the 2-day introduction to the school. He said that he would no longer teach that event. That night, I was on the side in the second roll of the stage and Ramtha got drunk and begin to vomit on the stage several times. Linda Evans got up went behind him because the hair was a mess and she was trying to help. The red guards took Ramtha out of the arena, two guards because he was unable to walk out.. One guard was Robert Jones and the other, I don't know his name, only his face. Linda was behind them and Ramtha was completely drunk, hair and makeup was a mess. I personally saw the whole thing.
A few nights ago we watched Gregg Braden's "Awaken To Zero Point" 4+ hr. video. It was excellent and very informative, (for those of us who are interested in this stuff). Yet once again I was shown that MANY people "out there" have been actaully studying and documenting for MANY YEARS, tons of the same "material" that Ramtha supposedly "teaches".
I would SERIOUSLY suggest that, though many of the JZ/Ram coprighted and trademarked "teachings" appear to be on the cutting edge so-to-speak, that BEFORE you invest alot of time, energy and money in RSE you dig just a tad deeper into these "teachings".
There are a TREMENDOUS amount of actual references to the original source of many of the JZ/Ram copyrighted and trademarked "Teachings", on these threads. The really INTERESTING part of this is that when you hear the original teaching in its FULL context, you get to see the bigger picture that you will NOT be given at RSE.(EVER! God forbid!!)
As to the actual connections with ancient texts, ancient mystery schools (the real ones)... Be reading and/or studying the origianl sources you hear the actual journey of those who have taken the time and had the experiences that go ALONG with finding these teachings. This provides a WHOLE field of context that is SORELY lacking in the RSE environment, where the "Master" is up in the mansion watching the folkies with binoculars and ordering her guards around over their headsets.
To listen to someone tell the story of how they came accross a teaching, show how it fit and they APPLIED it to their lives and to CREDIT THEIR SOURCES, taking nothing away from no-one, adding their own evolving learning to the mix, gives you a wonderful feeling of KNOWING that we are ALL part of the story. (That INCLUDES YOU and I!!!!!!! :o)
My "enlightenment" is not about swallowing, hook, line and sinker... some "masters" spiel and making it my own.(Complete with all the details of minutae)
Oddly enough neither is THEIR enlightenment going to be about telling others that their way is the "right" way, the "only" way, the "true" way the "copyrighted" and "trademarked" way...
I believe (here we go David, to Utopia ...
We are ALL weaving a grand tapestry that inludes everyones magical journey, purpose, and perspective. And although I do have a "right" to create mine, if you hear some of it and weave your strand with a few threads from something I have said to create your truth, THAT then is YOURS to pass along to those you encounter...
A true teachers goal must be the moment when the student has evolved to a point where the teacher is needed no more ...
I started to wonder what is really going on at RSE after I had an encounter with 2 staff. I was walking through the part of the barn where the staff offices are located and happened upon a very small office occupied by 2 staff members known to me. In the midst of a brief chat something very weird happened.
Did you ever play freeze-tag as a child? Kids run around while music is playing and everyone freezes in the moment the music unexpectedly stops.
One of the staff was putting price tags on CD's and another was reaching for an item. Suddenly I heard what I thought was a radio turned on too loud. In the exact same moment both staff froze in their movements. I became very alarmed and wondered what could be wrong? In the next moment I recognized JZ's voice booming over a loudspeaker saying, "I want a conference call with X and Y in 5 minutes." Click.
In the ensuing silence they resumed their motion AS IF THEY HAD NEVER STOPPED.
My observation was that she had frightened them in paralysis. I walked away completely unnerved.
Thanks for that insightful personal account.I didnt spend much time attending RSE, but, during my short involvement I looked into getting a job at the school, I spent a couple days on the cameras in the arena. A huge red flag came up for me when I saw the way most everyone of the staff members seemed to be on the edge of panic at every turn. Just the frenzied manner that appeared to be the "norm" gave me the creeps. This was during a relatively low-key, LOW attendance Begining retreat where there were actually more staff around than attendees (last spring)unlike my beginners which was a ton of people, you would THINK that with a small group a spirit of confidence and ease might prevail at the school? It seems that is NOT the operating paradignm.
The RSE Pride in Chaos... is a loop-hole, and a trick.
There has always been enormous pressure on students to store 2 years worth of food and build UGs, otherwise known as UnderGrounds (or fallout shelters.) Even a primitive underground is expensive and I recall a period in the 90's when Ramtha talked continuously for the need to have one. Many of the local RSE students scraped and saved in order to pay for one or part of one or something.
One day I was stopped in Yelm at a signal and JZ, along with her companion, James Flick pulled up to the signal at the same time. I was taken aback to see JZ and James in a current model gold Mercedes Benz cruising through town. I thought to myself, "I don't get it. Her students don't have enough money to make their next mortgage payment and she flaunts her wealth in their faces? Why doesn't she lower the cost of events if she truly believes in what she is doing?"
I was at a particular wine ceremony when afterwards,I was getting a cheeseburger. A Red Guard walked to me and started chatting. I blacked out for a bit, as I don't remember anything until I was near my car saying, "no."
I Got the gist of what he wanted. And I said ,"no" 6 more times. I remember saying, "you have a wife." (which I later found he was having troubles with). I blacked out again to wake up to him on top and inside of me. I remember thinking, "Wow. He is heavy." And I blacked out again.
The next morning, I was very confused and obviously still had some wine in me becuase my head felt a bit fuzzy. The event continued on and the Red Guards and Green Leads had met with Ramtha the next day. I asked him what Ramtha had said to him and he said that Ramtha said to him "You are a virile man."
(It has been my experience that there are many staff who have to ask Ramtha how to wipe their a$$.)
The event ended and I was still in a very confused state. I don't know how else to explain it until, I went to the doctor and found out I was pregnant (this is medically documented).
I went down to Planned Parenthood and while waiting for an appointment, I opend the book Our Body, Our Selves. I did one of those pick-out-a-page-it -will- apply methods. I opened the page to rape. On that page, it totally described how I was feeling ( as I had never had that happen before.) I burst out in tears, as the one mother whom I confided in had tried to tell me that I was "creating my reality" and that is was "purposeful good".
This put me in a whole nother dilemma. Abortion or no?
I refused to go to another event until my decision was made as I did not need or want Ramtha's advice: I am very capable of making my own decisions.
I was a single parent and another Red Guard at the time had been neglecting their parental child support duties ( I might add, for 15 years), so I was not in the mood to experience this again. So practically speaking, I opted for abortion.
This wreaked havoc on me emotionally as I KNEW it was a little girl inside me.
Also, during this time, I had to wait 5 days for the obligatory AIDS test. THAT was one of the longest and feared waits ever!
Try going through this , esp when I had just started a relationship with another person (it had only been 4 months) who had come to the school because of the cajolling of one of the aformentioned red guards.
How the hell do I come home from an event pregnant?
Try explaining THAT one to my partner.
The AIDS test came back negative.
The pregnancy was terminated.
I did come away with one thing, in that I will NEVER be victimized again , EVER!
I asked the Red Guard what he had learned and he said with a laugh, "next time,I will use a condom."
I just about fell over.
a former staff member
Interesting post Tree.
I have heard thru realible people who were in contact with RSE staff that Ramtha or Judi had sex with young men or older boys during some wine ceremonnies.
I also talked personally to a 20 year old young man who was never a student at RSE who claimed to have gone to private parties at Judy's house with other younger people from the local area.
My question to you Tree,if you don't mind telling.
Were you a paid RSE staff member?
Or were you "staffing" for events for event discounts?
I remember Ram saying once in audience that one should never use their position as a leader to influence another for sex.
Maybe he was addressing what happen to you.
Now for all you "nice" people who post here that think that this RSE thing is just a thing that Judy does to con people out out of money I think that "Tree's story tells all that this RSE thing goes much deeper than you have the imagination to fathom.
Thanks for your courage Tree.
I was a paid staff person up until I left last year.
Attended RSE for 19 years.
and for those of you who have any doubt about my story,
my preference this lifetime is women. I had never ever
slept with a man.I do not hate men, nor do I wave any flags. I just like to live my life.
Tree, this can give you (and others who aren't aware) some relief if you where concerned about being hiv pos. Keep in mind that no one cathces aids from anyone. also keep in mind that an hiv-pos 'test' result, is, a test that a person is hiv-antibody pos, which, is a clear sign that a person had something, and now, their immune is protected from every catching it again.
How about this for changing neighborhoods:
"Ramtha" has addressed, in audiences, the issue of men/women, men/men, women/women having sex during/after wine ceremonies. This has allegedly taken place in the arena and outside, as well.
I can relate a story told directly to me by the victim, whom I have known for many years. This person was at a wine ceremony, where the "partner" was to observe one another's glasses, to be sure they were FULL to the brim, of wine. When Ramtha said drink, then each person was monitored by their partner, to be sure they chug-a-lugged it all down fast. If not, students were requested to basically, rat their partner out for not complying.
In any case, the person I'm referring to isn't much of a drinker, and became so drunk that she passed out cold. Upon awakening inside the arena, somewhat groggy, she felt pain upon her lower leg.
Why ? Because a woman and man were upon her leg having intercourse. They either didn't realize, or were too drunk to care, that they were really hurting this other person.
She wasn't even able to speak about the experience for months, before she finally told me about it. She's still current in the school as far as I know. She has talked about quitting, but is afraid to.
Ramtha said that many babies were born from the wine ceremonies. Yet, they were presented to the students as a tool to use, to expand consciousness so they would be in a timelessness.
So rape is justified in a state of timelessness ?????
It was extremely courageous of you to share your experience on this forum,
You have prompted me to post about the rape of a friend that occurred during the height of the wine ceremonies… She was raped in the arena.. by a heavy set staff member
while too drunk and disorientated to resist.
The RSE veil of secrecy often goes hand in hand with its abuse.
if one needs to ask,
it was the head of Red Guards.
If one cannot feel safe at the Ranch,
where does one turn in such situations?
He is still employed there...
And , as far as Red Guards go, get his events for
a bit later..ok..last year
I was leaving an evening event.
I was going out , what was called ,
the "Security Door."
I had done this for years.
the evening ends.
I go to my car.
I wait for " the code" on the radio, to exit the gate.
Red Guard Robert ( I REFUSE to call him SIR ROBERT, as he is the worst one to do business with in Yelm)
stops me at the door.
He sais: there has been a policy change.
Me: I did not receive an e -mail.
What is the change?
(he stammers): you just cannot go out that door.
Me: Since when? I have done this for five years.
he has no response.
I go out another door. F him. and his power trip.
at a req'd event.
I hear my name on the loud speaker.
"Would so and so go to James Flicks' shop."
I walk there.
There is head of red Guard security ( I Know he is
crapping a brick because of aforementioned piece)
There is Robert Jones.
And "Blue Body" ( aka kept man- my "immediate supervisor")
I see head of Red Guard PRAYING I do not let loose with said story, whilst Robert, sitting very demure,
has already told his side of the story.
As it has in my experience , in America, GUILTY until proven innocent. This was the stage.
So Blue Body tells me my job is on the line since I did not follow a Red Guards' order.
Having have the the prior
experiences with Red Guards (1) they don't pay child support and 2) they use their positions to rape people)
so I say: I do not respect you 'Red Guards'
to which he replied : You do know , your job is on the line here.
How can that be? you know my old school work ethic.
I work my a$$ off.
Becuase I do not repect the Red Guards?
he said yes.
to Which I said (I need to side step here. My 17 yr old son, has decided Yelm High School is where it is at for him. But, he is too bright , yet not wanting to conform, so I take a job at the ranch, so if he beeps me, I can run to the high school)
I replied: so if I say "yes" to the red Guard, I am good to go?
Blue Body sat.
He said yes.
What a crock of sh#^.
Your post's will certainly help others that have been abused in RSE to understand they are not alone,,
and not responsible for the abuse inflicted upon them in RSE.
Where was the protection, who can they turn to? or even trust?
Where there is no accountability... Abuse is sure to follow.
my email contact LARSE@fairpoint.net
THANK YOU for posting. I know that has already been said, but I want very much to say it, myself.
I just left RSE recently, myself. I started back in 1990, though I was introduced to the teachings in 1986. I never did move to the area, but I attended many events, not "just" the required ones.
I know that your post is going to help a number of people. I would expect that you will find satisfaction in knowing that, too.
If you want to chat further, feel free to email me.
I have no idea of who the head of the Red guards is, nor the heavy set staff member. I was absent from RSE for many years and returned for a few months in 2005. I do not live in the area. I am certain others have no idea either.
Are they one and the same or are there two staff members of RSE that rape women ?
Are they one and the same or are there two staff members of RSE that rape women ?
RSE staff members have been silenced by fear and subservience to a doctrine
that excuses abuse and rape as “a learning experience”
This is a betrayal of the highest principles of a spiritual path... that ultimately JZ Knight is responsible and accountable for.
And those that perpetrate this abuse under “Ramtha’s” shelter need to understand that when the RSE house of deception falls........
Your abuse and deception will have come full circle, and you will be held accountable also.
The head of the Red Guards is heavy set.
In 1995 there was a Red Guard who approached a woman doing Fieldwork with her blinders on. She had stopped walking in order to Focus and he came up behind her and kissed her on the neck. They did not have any kind of a personal relationship and she was very upset.
This is the response of the lawyer employed by JZK Inc. to an objection I lodged to the Department of the Attorney General.
(5) Wine ceremonies are held. They result in drunken bacchanalia. Children are exposed to wine and tobacco. There have been incidents of pedophile assaults.
(This is Mr. Kaukl's summary of what I submitted.)
Wine ceremonies have been a part of events. Indeed, wine ceremonies form a core activity of most Christian liturgical activities. Children are not allowed to attend events without a parent or guardian. The School does not sanction providing alcohol to minors in a manner contrary to State law. This policy was thoroughly researched and is scrupulously enforced. Similarly, the School does not sanction overindulgence. Obviously inebriated persons are not admitted to, or allowed to remain at, events. Ms. Knight maintains a full-time security staff for the protection of event attendees, in the arena and elsewhere on the grounds. The only incident of pedophilia of which I am aware involved a former employee and an underage female student ward of the employee, and it occurred at his private residence, not at the ranch. When Ms. Knight became aware of the incident from another student, she directed me to inform the Thurston County Prosecuting Attorney's office of the identity of the witness and to advise the authorities that she would do everything in her power to assist in prosecuting the offender. She banned the former employee from attending any
further events. As the victim of childhood abuse herself, Ms. Knight is highly motivated to prevent any such conduct on her premises and the suggestion
that she tolerates or encourages it is irredeemably preposterous.
Was anyone else in the RSE administration aware of the incidences of rape? I do not know. Perhaps the lawyer was "magnetized" to the RSE organization?
Note: In my submission I did not actually make the allegation that pedophile instances had occurred but rather I was told by a participant that they had. Mr. Kaukl rearranged the facts.
I have an eight year old daughter whose mother works at the RSE. I believe that the RSE is harmful in the sense that it inhibits free thinking, and possibly gives people delusions of grandeur. If there are any former students out there that would be willing to talk to me off of the message board about some objective negative attributes of the RSE, and why they think that JZ is a fraud, I would appreciate it. JG
Did you report this incident to either James or JZ? I find it hard to beliee that they would have done nothing about this red guard.
as I stated, I was 1) in a state of shock and since learning more these past few days, not in a balanced sense of "critical or analytical thinking".
So, no. I did not let James or JZ know, as their head read guard is highly regarded in their eyes.
If the HEAD of the Red Guard did this, where was I to
I would liken it to a local Sheriff stopping some woman for a mild infraction, only to have her give him a BJ to
wipe it off the records.
I think you should definitely report the incident. It is still not too late.
Sorry, I don't understand the analogy. Was there something that you wanted the RG to help you hide about your record?
Also, you state that you had never been with a man before this incident. How is it that you have a child that another RG failed to provide child support for?
Sorry, I don't understand the analogy. Was there something that you wanted the RG to help you hide about your record?
apparently you are are a guy. so be it.
You will never understand demanding a BJ in exchange
for something else.
as for the me being gay thing:
my previous GF was a "crossover"
asked me when she got back from the service "would you like to have a child with me?"
like any other woman, I said, :yes.
We did it via, AI ( articifial insemination via her brother, legal documents and all, except I did not see her as ever leaving)
so there you have it.
Thanks for your response Tree. I'm just trying to understand. (I guess I still don't understand the analogy...)
I am still confused about how another RG didn' t pay child support to you. Was the brother a RG and was he the legal father of your child?
Tree, I do not know what a BJ is. American terminology can be different to other countries. Could you tell me what it means?
It appears as though the head of the Red Guards may have raped at least two women.....as per David's post and possibly more.
Apparently he was not given the same Truth Teachings as everyone else. The version he got was "You are a virile man."
Half of the planet "drops the veil" on a Saturday night. The stunning revelation and insight that the Red Guard got from the experience (according to Tree's post) was that next time he should "use a condom." He could have got the same information from a newspaper.
The "educator" presents it as if indulging in debauchery is a learning experience and most of the audience swallows it. There is plenty of peer pressure to "own the wisdom" of "how you created it."
It is well known by many students that the RSE administration does not listen to any objections by students unless it gets to the point where it seriously threatens their public image.
Those sort of conditions do undermine a person's capacity to think rationally and it is probably better to deal with it at a time when it is more effective to deal with people inclined to be on the defensive.
It appears that in all of the cases there are no forthcoming supportive witnesses? Perhaps the audience were all too drunk, or perhaps exposing the abuse intimidates with the threat of expulsion from "the Great Work".......
Molesters ought to be held accountable.
Now I always thought that a bj was a blow job which could be fun if you actually wanted to do it with someone you cared for. But disgusting if forced on you.
Thank you for you kind and renewed support.
You say very eloquently what has been my experience.
I was sharing an experience, and now you are asking question after question about my personal life, which I will gladly share with you if you care to e-mail me.
But your questionting reigns of doubt and opening my life like a can of worms.
I am a very simple and unique person, just like many here. Maybe meet me for a cup of coffee or e-mail me.
"If the HEAD of the Red Guard did this, where was I to turn?"
You turn to law enforcement. And as "Ramtha" would say, "Let the chips fall where they may."
yes, Dorothy, now that I have been clear of the environment, that would be a prudent thing to do.
My point was, my "critical thinking" , having been indoctrinated by the "how did you create THAT" lingo, was temporarily suspended. The , "red in the rainbow" thing, if you will.
JB is not doubting your story. It is hard to follow partly because it is shocking and partly because what is perfectly clear to you is not perfectly clear to those who were not present.
My apologies to JB.
(I was with the other parent of my child for 12 years.
It was agreed her brother would be the donor, and he was absolved of any responsibilities with a contract. WE would be the parents. Now this was 20 years ago ,mind you. Not at all commom like it is now.
So we moved to Yelm when my son was 1. I decided to leave the abusive realtionship with her when he was 3. I left my son with her for the first 4 months. How could I possibly be a good mother if I had not found myself? I was in an abusive relationship.
After that, we shared him one week on, one week off. at Age 7, he opted to live with me( she was quite fanatical in her thinking with Ramtha. One could not even have dinner with her without her saying "so be it" or "Ramtha this, Ramtha that".
She got threatening again and I had a restraining order put on her. It was then that she decided she was not going to be responsible in any sense of the word. He went to the Olympia Waldorf school, which I worked and paid for, and I paid for all his expenses until just last year when he moved out. It was when he was I think ten , ( I could ask my dr's office to look it up) when this incident occurred with the Head Red Guard. For all practical purposes, I had my hands full with one and I did not feel I could take on another as I know he would never support the child financially.
Oddly enough, my ex-partner was the first female red Guard and was aware of the incident that happened.
I guess she thought it was not her business to bust the head Red Guard.)
I hope this clears the picture better.
Thank you Tree! You have been so very open and trusting in putting the personal details of your life up on this site. With your length of time within RSE as a student and an employee, you do have a unique perspective on the workings of the organization over time. In sharing your life story, you will help others who may become caught up in RSE. You are brave and you are greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the clarification Tree. I really think you should report this to RSE to start and then go from there.
Why are they called "Red Guards"??? and Tree, you are indeed brave and are helping others who read this and who are not out of the school - it is time to questions why one was in the school in the first place and why we were drawn to it? Yes, the school will fall - thank you David for this site.
Meanwhile while women are being raped and people are being molested at the events RSE is raking in the profits............
While people are being raped and molested at RSE the dollars continue to roll in..........
Those perpetrated against have actually PAID to have the experience......
Wonder if the circumstances would transcend the NO REFUND policy?
These are the words of the lawyer employed by JZK Inc.
"The Teachings are not intended, and certainly not guaranteed, to develop occult powers. "
this is a test. It seems as though you cannot add posts to this thread (though the time and date on the main link change as if a post has been made.)
JB, you suggest Tree report this incident to RSE. Of what use would that be? This is not a business that doesn't care much beyond the collection of the fees.
I have heard of other cases where the students were not allowed to return to school. I believe Tree mentioned something to that affect also.
I have learned how to negotiate these pages.
Why does not someone else speak up?
I am very close uh.....
I have alot friends, let me put it THAT way.
we will gather.....
I am not alone.....
Tell Steve to get off his a$$$ and make amends.
I posted a similar thing twice as I was unaware that it had actually posted.
Tree, I have no idea of what you mean by Steve making amends. Are you referring to the LARSE gathering or something else?
one of the enitities involved in the incident. At least I hope he is fired to say the least. Would this be considered
"gross negligence" by RSE and JZK, Inc?
And I must say, I am having some difficulty with all this discovery in the last few weeks.
I have processed said incident, but now, this whole exit thing is a bit more than I can bare at times.
Was this the same for everybody else?
You are NOT ALONE !
I have been in RSE for the better part of 20 years, myself. I am OUT now (thank goodness).
As I learned later on, when I began to read, read, read, about cults, exiting cults, the mind-set while in a cult (you get the picture). I realized that the pattern/experience of getting sucked in, being brainwashed for so long, but then finally seeing the light, has been experienced by thousands of people.
There was a time when I totally "believed in" Ramtha; other times when I had doubt about it all, and then, after being totally shredded apart during a wine ceremony and being threatened by the Big Dud, himself (not a typo), my belief system started to crumble. I didn't deserve the onslaught I received, and thankfully, I had healthy enough boundaries and self-esteem, to not just blame myself as "having deserved it, because the teacher knows what's best for me". Uh-uh. I was emotionally, verbally, and mentally abused. I don't tolerate that from anyone, so it was a mixed blessing.
I cried for months, and months. I didn't want to see my usual friends, because I had no emotional energy left for them. I was filled with shame, guilt, anger, betrayal, and sleepless nights, staring at the ceiling while I cried myself to sleep in confusion. I trusted that the teacher was who he said he was. Foolish me.
Being a feisty sort, I started to speak out with doubt/questions to some folks I knew in the Yelm area, who were not (some never were), in the "school". Well, that opened up a network of people to me that I was stunned to learn existed. There are lots of people "out there", who genuinely are concerned about the brainwashed people inside the RSE "campus".
I met more and more people, who "talked". Whew.
The bottom line is that many people, once they see through the facade, go through all sorts of emotions as I've mentioned. It can last for months, or years, to various degrees. That's okay, and it's too be expected.
You know how they play so much music/songs in there during events ? I like music a lot, and songs...and of course I have certain memories from events, of songs. When I would be out in my "real" life, and be driving, in a store, whatever...and hear a song that triggered me into remembering an event, and even at times, something from a teaching that was said...I'd just get teary-eyed.
Going through the emotional rollercoaster is hard. But there truly is a point that you reach, where you say to yourself, "The power really was in ME, all along!" It's SOOOO Not About Ramtha or JZ. It's all about ourselves. I don't mean in a narcissitic way, but in a trusting way. We are here on this planet to LIVE our lives, not forfeit them to line anyone's pockets, while we struggle to capture a carrot that is dangled just out of our reach, for years on end. It's just ridiculous.
Now, I can think and say what I WANT TO. Not what I have to vomit back to my partner that is RSE-acceptable programming. But, what I can evaluate with my own critical thinking skills, and decide that it is NOT okay that anyone is abused at RSE, in ANY way. I can say that JZ and "Ramtha" have some 'splainin' to do !
When people take their power back, and demand accountability, they will receive it. When they have their hearts open with compassion for their fellow "students", who are stuck in the "program", then websites like EMF are born.
Many/most of us HAVE "moved on", as we were told to do. But we will define what that means. The days of having those things defined and DICTATED to us, are over with. To the staff/students who showed up at the LARSE gathering, that said folks should just move on - what they really meant was "shut up and go away and don't make any waves".
Ahhh, no, no. No duct tape.
Tree, you are not alone. The power is in YOU, and the law is on YOUR side.
"It's SOOOO Not About Ramtha or JZ. It's all about ourselves. "
watcha, I like the statement above. This calls for a smiley face.
Thank you Tree for sharing such personal experiences. It's very difficult to open oneself to such vulnerability, especially after having been betrayed by someone we trusted,(JZ)& your partner. I do understand what you explained about suspending one's "critical thinking" as I know I did this too. I should have walked away from the verbal abuse/battering long before I did, but didn't even realize the enormity of it till after I had a nervous breakdown 2 years after I left RSE. I wish you healing & peace. M.
Thank you so much!!
I live alone and work alone, so I am definately faced with these things straight in my face. Sometimes I think I will be taken away in a straight jacket.
And then I see the sky, or the river.
And I am calmed.
Having been a professional musician for some time, I am a bit leary of listening to any music, as I think a Mall song of the
60's or 70's will do me in just shopping for underwear!
Tonight, I received a phone call from one
of the guys at a business in town we all
He is not in school, and has always been very pleasant with me. He has very pretty eyes.
He asked me if all what he had heard is true.
I was floored.
So, I know all of Yelm and the surrounding areas knows about this incident.
Thank you all, for your support...so so
to M Mc McMillan.....
Can you tell me what happens in a nervous breakdown? I think I am close.
I burst into tears at the slightest inkling of anyting associated with you-know-what and I just want to rock myself back and forth.
i'm not m. mcmillan, though i do know who she is as we met in school, and she's a very sincere, sweet woman.
it really is hard at the "stage" you are in. most of us have been there. you think you can't go on, but i swear, you do.
what i did was shut off as much stimulus for a while (tv, radio, cd's, NO rse material of course), and i spent time letting myself cry...being in nature...telling myself it's okay that i feel like i did, and knowing that the worst of it will pass in time. talking to others who went through it was my greatest support.
when i was in the privacy of my home, i quietly searched until the wee hours of the morning, on "ramtha" "fraud" "lies", etc...on google. i found alllll sorts of info. i also found FACTNET. i saw an article posted on google that had david mccarthy's photo and i knew him ! we talked and he's one of a number of sincere people i've met, who came to rse with total intent to become a master, too. duped.
there is a book called TAKE YOUR LIFE BACK by janja lilich. it's SO good. she went through this, too, and wrote a book about it.
we all need to write a collective book !!!! but that's another story.
tree, i've only been out of school a year. all of the things you're describing are what others have felt. if we lived closer together, i'd visit with you. if you want to talk on the phone, i'd be happy to do that, and offer support. i also have "other" resources you may want to look into...when you're ready. or if you choose to at any point.
What is going on at RSE is called mind control and the experience you are engaging right now is called "waking up." Did you see the movie, "Matrix?"
Remember when they pull Neo out of the matrix and he is lying on the table in a weak body and unable to see clearly? That is you. You are now outside of the system and reeling from the shock of comprehending that you were in one.
And what did Neo do? He rested. That is your task right now. Just take your time. There is a lot of great information available which explains how and why you were pulled in. But rest first. Give yourself time to adjust to the new realizations.
Thank you...Thank you! everyone.
a very dear friend of mine is flying in today (due to hearing me on the phone), and
thanks to all of you and her, I now think
I will surive without the straight jacket. The helpful steps you have given me tells me I am not too off base.
I have a feeling though that this weekend's Q and A with Ramtha might uh....how do I say....I think something will come of these posts. Not sure which way the wind is deciding where to blow, but to be sure, I have a solid platform with you all.
I was blessed with an e-mail from Graced that she thought I was too strong of a person innately, so that will save me from
going mad. I was really amused by her analogy of "it is sorta like being able to finally poop after a week of constipation.
On one hand it hurts and on another hand it is a total relief."
Thank you again from the bottom of my heart.I have plenty of toilet paper.
The behavior of JZ is called predatory. She spins a large web (story) and then positions herself in the center of it (Ramtha) to watch and wait for prey (people to take advantage of.)
You're lucky - you got out. RUN!
Yes, I think what happened to Audrey and Joe was also a blessing in disguise.
Hi Tree, a friend of mine just told me about your question to me. You posted it after I went offline last night. I would be glad to speak with you personally about my experience & the symptoms. I feel doing this on an individual level would allow us to feel more free to communicate such personal information & makes for more open communication. Email me & we can meet or talk by phone, whichever you would like. My email is: email@example.com
Also, thanks for the validation & recommendation watchamacallit. Everyone have a good day. M.
Here are 2 useful websites:
www.refocus.org (no pun intended, )
And a few good books:
Recovery From Cults by Michael Langone
Cults in Our Midst by Margaret Singer
Brainwashing by Kathleen Taylor
How often did "Ramtha" say, "You need your brains washed!!!!" And now there is a lot of brainwashing to undue...
Sounds to me that this Red Gaurd situation is a matter of accountability. Sitting in fear and blame and throwing daggers on a website does little or nothing to resolve the injustice. Having been raped in my life I can tell you that not pursuing justification comes from a place of insecurity and victimization, which will thrive as long as we allow ourselves to revel in it. Had I gone through the same experience now in my life there would be hell to pay because I am not afraid to stand up for my rights. At 16 years old no one had taught me that, but at 30 and with some serious introspection I have learned that bullies prey on weakness, and that their power is only as great as your potential to be intimidated. Stand up for yourself, you're worth it.
Your comments smack of the insidious indoctrinations of RSE.
Do you consider children that have been raped to be weak also?
As for throwing daggers on a website”
The truth is only a “dagger” to those that deceive.
please see my post regarding "lacking critical thinking".
it is , if you do not undestand, in these cohersive situations, very much suspended.
as of now, I can see it.
Then, could not.
ty dorothy whatchmacallit and M Mc Millan
all very useful.
can anyone help me skip a few months into the fuure?
David... I'm not refering to anything other than Tree's experience, but thanks for generalizing my comments. I'm simply stating that people who commit crimes should be held accountable, and she is the only one that can honestly call for her justice. To quote your nemesis "If not now, when?"
Using innocent children as examples to give potency to arguments is a cheap ploy though it does have dramatic value.
Here is an example of a cheap ploy..
Within the "Ramtha" indoctrinations…
I was told that if a child was raped and abused in it's lifetime...
it had been pre arranged on the "plain of bliss" for the souls learning...and was for purposeful good?
On the fence,
Thank you for clarifying,
I believe that calling for justice is the responsibility of all of us,
Especially if we supported an abusive organization such as RSE.
When one of us is raped…we are all raped.
Fence, I hear you.
Allow me to pass through this tumultuos stage.
I am a very strong person, but I need to rest right now.
OnTheFence said: "Sitting in fear and blame and throwing daggers on a website does little or nothing to resolve the injustice."
Thank you for clarifying that you are not using this website to sit in fear, throw daggers and do nothing to resolve the injustice.
Your posts on this website are speaking facts, as uncomfortable as it may be for you and others to learn/know about.
As with other topics that have been brought to light on this site, a Pandora's Box has been opened. People have been coming forward with a lot of information - more than gets posted on this website. People handle things the way THEY feel is best to do so. I would suggest it is a false assumption to think nothing is being done by anyone, to resolve issues of wrongdoing.
Additionally, if Tree felt she needed to speak about it and NOT do anything beyond that, it is her choice. Who are we to judge such a personal decision ?
My name is Troy Pledger, former Art Director for JZK, Inc. and Ramtha's School of Enlightenment having left a little over a year ago on favorable terms. I commend Tree for her courage and strength in sharing her experience and would like to offer an objective reference to her work performance at RSE. I interacted with Tree on a weekly basis. She was one of the hardest workers who set standards for quality and work ethics. She was also refreshingly honest in her demeanor and always a joy to interact with. Just yesterday I learned of her experience and read her postings. When I read her story I was compelled to offer a character reference as her work performance and dedication to RSE was exemplary.
Tree's sharing does in fact bring forth justice. Truth liberates - and the men who know what they have done and who are probably reading this site sre now known,,,,, Now they must face themselves. They are caught. Will they go to jail? Maybe, maybe not. Nevertheless they are imprisoned in their own poisonous chamber.
Tree has brought forth justice because she gives courage to other women to face the pain and fact of rape - so they can break free from their pain and fear and prisons....
Tree has brought forth justice because she can stand tall and not accept any longer guilt for what was done to her - and so very many others.
To declare truth is not to throw daggers. To acknowledge pain is not to wallow in victim consciousness. To declare truth is to bring peace, finally, to anguished hearts/bodie/minds/souls. To declare truth is in fact to transform victimness to wholeness.
Come forth women and children and teens and young men and speak of what has been done to you in the name of enlightenment. And justice will prevail, and the perpetrators won't.
What degree of accountability for the act of rape belongs with the perpetrator of the act and what degree of accountability belongs with the organization that offers such education and effectively gets large numbers of people so inebriated that they lose their decency and respect for others.
Troy, Thanks for your contribution. It is very welcome.
Troy, THANK YOU for posting.
On the fence,
My 2 cents
The act of rape includes the victims non- consent to one of the most personal physical acts. When one has lost that,(the consent process) be it momentarily or longer, it is not much different then any other great life loss. ie death etc. Ones process should in no way be dictated as you seem to feel. You make a statement that ones has to agree with being bringing criminals to justice but make no reference to the personal nature of the loss and that is taking the act out of context. Why would you want to do that?
Everyone has thier own time to process.
To every season......
Keep in mind also that many through their involvement in RSE have also had another thing altered, changed, restricted and that is thier mind. I am sure that many who signed on would not have signed on knowingly if they knew they would be fed fear and given impossible dreams to become dependant on. The non consentual nature of rape is the essence of the crime, be it mind or body.:
I came on this thread to find stories from past students to examplify logical reasons why I should stear clear of the school. It quickly became a back and forth about how bad a red guard behaved and how he shouldn't be able to get away with his wrongdoing just because he works for a school preaching enlightment. Once again, I can relate from personal experience. I can also say that rape occurs EVERYWHERE. Schools, churches, the military, government, police stations...even support groups. Trust no one, everyone is human.
My experience in the school was that is was made of lost souls looking for direction, and that seems to be the theme of life. Ultimately no one can tell you how to live but you. I'm just suggesting that rather than sitting on line in agreement about a rapist, someone should call him out. I have nothing to say about Tree's 'processing' of the experience, as mentioned that is personal for her. I wasn't commenting on that part of the equation. I hope she eventually feels clear enough to experience a full life.
on the fence...please allow time to let the chips fall as they may.
How many others do you know who will stand up?
Please give time it's alotted place.
Patience....truly a virtue.
on the fence...your posts seem almost cold.
I do not mean to be mean, but, shall we set up said situation for YOU? and see how you feel?
Just join the school now, pray for a wine ceremony...and I will let the Red Guards know you are in attendance.
(And since they are monitoring the site now, I think wine ceremonies will not be in the near future. )
THEN you can speak of said experience.
Just make a choice.
Go or no go. It is that easy.
in fact, you have no knowledge base from which this situation took place.
Try 15 or 18 years of partipcation in such group.
Then add, you trust all security measures
for the last umpteen years at said school.
Then icur, said incident (you are not 16 and naive, you are well versed spritually after all those years-or so you think).
You have NEVER been in those shoes.
Please refrain from throwing opinions around like you know what you are talking about.
Just dive in.
please look at topic heading.
that might give you a clue.
Not getting emotionally involved may be perceived as cold, I can understand how you would read my comments as such. I am not on this site to argue about circumstances, yours or mine. I'm here to find fault with the school, not one poorly chosen employee. I've seen the same bad promotional practices in church, police stations, universities, you name it. Is it fair to conclude that all churches, police stations, and universities are evil dangerous places because of a few bad people? Society is full of criminals, no where is safe. My rape involved a large man in authority and, oddly enough, red wine that he supplied. I was worried about telling on him because I though I would lose my job and be targeted as either a liar or deserving of such treatment. Fifteen years ago I was a victim of rape and insecurity, today I am a different person. Part of the reason I am quick to call for truth and accountability is because I didn't back then.
I'm not here to sympathize, react, argue, make friends or make war with anyone. I'm looking for objective truth about RSE to educate myself as to why I shouldn't attend, not take sides in a situation that happened between two people. Obviously I have gotten off track on this thread. Sorry if I don't sound warm and fuzzy, but it doesn't really matter who I am or how I feel. My advice of standing up for yourself isn't what anyone wants to hear, I guess I misunderstood the whole point of this site.
Fence sitter -- seems to me you missed a key point to the story - i.e. Ramtha's response: "You are a virile man" - to a rapist. Is that the kind of enlightened ascended greater than Jesus or Buddha master you want to follow.? You also seem to have missed the point of how radical it is that Tree in fact spoke this story out loud -- Obviously you do not know Judy's history of how she treats people who she decides not to like any more, for whatever reason. Tree is standing up. It is more than a story of rape on the street, or even by a single minister or priest. Again, do you want to follow/listen to/obey/learn from a so called master who encourages drunken-ness and wanton irresponsible sex; drunken-ness of children; childeren born of rape when the same master taught that the attitude of the parents fornicating effects the child that is born.? These are the issues here. What Tree does from here on is her concern. Your stated issue is whether or not to give your power to an organization that sets up, encourages, and condones such behavior.
No confused. These are not the issues here. Do you really think you are helping this site with your lies?
Maybe you are just Confused...
on the fence...
just go to a few events.
give yourself a set time of attending.
Good luck dear.
On the fence,
I would definately recommend going to a beginners. There is truly awesome knowledge to be gained at RSE.
Just don't get caught up in the group conciousness or the JZ worship and you'll be fine.
If RSE was taken to court regarding the case of rape of an employee I would consider it could be quite likely that THEY are held accountable for the act.
The "educator" instructs people to monitor their partners glasses in order that they drink the prescribed amount.
It is well known that different people have different "holding capacities."
It is well known that an excess of alcohol has detrimental effects on the human body.
It is unlikely that Tree would ever have been in a position of blacking out and being unable to effectively enforce her decision of "NO THANK YOU" in the absence of the extreme alcohol intake.
It is also likely that the Red Guard might have not acted on his inner urges if the liquor and drunken audience were not initiated by the "educator."
It is well know everywhere that excess alcohol consumption leads to such behaviour. It is irresponsible to get a large audience so drunk to the point of passing out and vomiting in many cases with the administrators in a likewise condition. Their job of guarding the student's safety totally undermined by excess alcohol.
Quite obviously Ramtha did not have the capacity to intervene in the various acts stated on this website. Those who think he "protects" them are delusional.
It appears to me that the Red Guard is unlikely to have raped anyone other than at RSE. I conclude this from all I have heard about the conditions at wine ceremonies. I could be wrong.
If this is the case the responsibility for instigating the act (and others) lies with the irresponsible "education"of RSE.
Dear Tree, So sorry it's taken me so long to respond to your brave post. Others on this forum are much more qualified than I am to assist you in the withdrawl and detoxing from RSE, but I can express my gratitude for your honesty, strength and determination. I've learned alot from you and can feel your pain. I can tell you it will get better as time goes by. My dose of RSE was very light compared to yours ( Ramtha videos in the 80's, Bleep reignited it, CD's and books for a year, then Beginners retreat that JZ & Ram were too tired to show up for, but not too tired to keep the $$$, more CD's & books from the retreat), minor or should have been. Within a month I was experiencing profound personality changes and could write pages detailing the many shifts of that downward spiral. Fortunately another woman from that retreat lives in the same community and we talked alot and she found EMF. I put out a cry for help early Feb. and the help poured in most generously. That first eye opening is overwhelming, but their advice works and 2 months later I 'm doing really well, happy, calm, peacefull, getting more productive. I focused on that, got lots of bodywork because it's worked for me in the past. My accupuncturist of 10 yrs. was giving me cranial-sacral and I felt, then she commented my right side was stuck (not technical terms, just that I was different than I'd ever been). Know I sure felt altered. Brain " cut in half", body told energy centers 1,2,3 too human therefore bad, No wonder I felt disconnected and fragmented, Humpy Dumpty can be put back together again.
Also I hit the movies for examples of my experience-for$6 and 2 hrs. I can observe without involvement and eat popcorn, plus it's an easy distraction. "Notes on a Scandal" with Judy Dench was a wonderful example of control, manipulation, seduction, predator with agenda, PLUS the weird eye thing too--starring JUDY. Then to tackle what I wrestled with the most- the outrageous betrayal and duplicity of JZ I saw "Breached" with Chris Cooper as the worst spy turned mole in US history. It was as shocking as JZ-R- and RSE- he attended mass daily ( Not the root of his problem Joe!) then peddled secrets to the highest bidder and sold porn of the wife he loved supposedly. Anyway these other neutral examples helped me see how I'd been soo duped.
I still plan to return all these bogus books and Cd's, write some letters etc, but first I had to return to me get grounded, centered, strong, breathe, and start smiling and laughing again. We have time and don't have to do it all at once. Nuture yourself first. Thank You for You.
Thank you so much Kathleen!
Personal accounts and posts are really helping me.
I vascillate between totally lost and
totally lost but looking at the river and the trees.
I really like your movie suggestions although I do not feel my brain is ready for them quite yet.
Thank you again.
Anne, your response to Confused suggests that you are well versed in mind control technique. Take it elsewhere.
Do you really think you are helping this site with your lies? Maybe you are just confused-
Here is an example of a cheap ploy..
Within the "Ramtha" indoctrinations…
I was told that if a child was raped and abused in it's lifetime...
it had been pre arranged on the "plain of bliss" for the souls learning...and was for purposeful good?
I do not intend for this to sound insensitive, for I know it caused great pain in her life. But does Judy believe her own molestation was 'arranged?' Some have developed multiple personality disorder as a result of such trauma, and MPD can be detected as a person awake in delta.
This last time at the event, I did not have the 'vibes' that I had just watching the dvd's of Ramtha(copyrighted) in early dvds. Judy had a q and a session during a summer beginner's group, and the recent q and a session gave me the same 'vibes' for lack of a better word. The 'black and white' style is the same manner. Is it another facet of her personality?
I used to call it intuition, but I was told there is a difference between intuiting and knowing. So I wonder, is it something I know based on frequency? I can't answer this. Something was different. Also, some of the earlier videos I have seen did not speak much of 'his daughter,' but the later ones do give a great deal of credit to her, and she has made her fortune due to it. But this is my opinion only, if this is Judy and not the entity at this time, an element of insecurity surrounds constant reaassurance from an audience. 'Do you understand' to me is more apropos than 'do you like these teachings?' Why the need for approval by an ascended master, and not further concern that the people are 'getting it,' and if they are not getting it, then maybe those in attendance require further explanation and not admonishment such as, 'wake up' when it's nightime and one has been awake since 5 am and the schedule calls for the same the next day with a six hour delay before a 12 pm breakfast. I know this sounds mild to those of you who were there in the early days. The 'middle' way is what the Buddha said, I believe. But that's another teacher.
I would very much like to believe there is a Great White Brotherhood, someone looking out for us other than us. Some people require a bit of proof, and since we all do posses a sixth sense developed to some degree, it is not unfathomable to find a card and do remote view, sending and receiving. These are not proof to me of a brotherhood, but proof to me that we are not using our brains fully, to our capacity, which does indicate we have much greatness within. So members of the brotherhood, if I ever could request, please honor us with your 'real' presence so that the world can indeed heal, if you do exist. We don't wish for another "god" to worship or slave to. We simply wish to know what IS.
The channelling teachings were beautiful, but the reality is now changed. It is threatening and frightening. One speaks of Jehovah and how humankind has been demeaned. Why would an ascended master wish to make us feel ashamed? That is something we are to own and 'blow away!' Isn't it? So I wonder again, is the entity gone? If higher levels of existence are in the demeaning biz, regardless of calling us 'gods,' it is of no use. We are still demeaned.
The vibes were very different and I would like to believe I'm wrong. Perhaps I was 'tuned into the wrong frequency.' But I trust my intuition and knowing. And I did 'see' the numbers on cards. If I did it once, I'll do it again. And again. And so can every single one of us, if we so desire. I was seeing more focus on this discipline and wondering if it is so that the school could demonstrate that the students are indeed doing 'things,' especially after debby and kenny. That's my gut telling me. :D But here's the thing. Once it's out, others not in the school can do it. So what does that tell us? We are ALL wonderful, right? :D
Thank you for reading another one of my 'essays.' I tend to get off-track when my focus 'multitasks.'
I followed your message the entire string and I agree.
When a few people who had written to The Nisqually Valley Screamer aka Nisqually Valley News in regards to "What students have accomplished", my thoughts in regards to the list of people writing books or winning 70 K ( maybe someone can secure this letter to the editor for ref here),
I do not see people healing the dead, nor walking on water, nor walking through walls, all things I see here are are desires of the ego, and not for aiding mankind.
And if Kenny's process leads him to that of The Story of Henry Sugar, and he helps those in need, well then , I think he got the message before the " powers that think they be."
G2G, Have you heard the expression that the eyes are the windows to the soul ? At the beginners event I attended in January 2005 there was one evening with "Ramtha."
I was fairly close to the stage and I thought to myself that something was vastly different. I thought nobody was home downstairs and Ramtha was actually absent. It was sort of like the body was animated without an occupant. The eyes were different....not in physical appearance but in the essence emanating form them. I did not have the same impression at other events I attended in 2005.
At the beginning event he made a few really filthy, debased comments.
Trust your intuition.
I would define a component of intuition as a sensation that something is not right.
I know RSE students have had this over the years and then they attend the events and Ramtha says "Tell your partner this is not a cult." or "This works" or "the quantum field is not cashed out"......when there is an abundance of poverty amongst longer term students.
This sort of presentation constantly overrides that "still, small voice within" that Ramtha used to talk about in the early years.
I have done this myself and watched others do it.
After a lot of experiences I found that sensation was correct.
What makes Judy's RSE dangerous is the fact that it is the ultimate mind game. Yes, some of the disciplines taught do produce results - but why wouldn't they? Praying can also produce results.
Once a result occurs the naive student innocently concludes all of the teachings must work and "Ramtha" must be real. "I just have to try harder." Now they are hooked, just where Judy wants them. (Under her control.)
In the meanwhile the new "student" is unknowingly developing the capacity for dissociation which makes their subconscious vulnerable and open to "Ramtha"/JZ's "teachings." (Post hypnotic
suggestions.) It's a dangerous place because what is occurring is very subtle.
"Yes, some of the disciplines taught do produce results - but why wouldn't they? Praying can also produce results.
Once a result occurs the naive student innocently concludes all of the teachings must work and "Ramtha" must be real. "I just have to try harder." Now they are hooked,"
Eyes Wide Open:
You have it pegged.
This has been my experience EXACTLY.
(plus some )
I woke up to the JZ/Ramtha act when I listened to the sound recording of her book, "A State of Mind."
I had wanted to read her autobiography (at least that is what she calls it but it could be fiction...
When I looked for it at the library I found the sound recorded version. In 1988 JZ read the book aloud, it was recorded on cassette and published by Random House. When I listened to it I was really shocked because as she is reading the book she sometimes has to quote "Ramtha." SHE SOUNDS IDENTICAL TO HIM. She has no trouble switching back and forth between her voice and his. If she and he are different beings she would not be able to do a perfect imitation.
Curious that I never saw the sound version for sale at RSE. But it is out there and you, too, can gain enlightenment by listening to it.
To follow up on Kathleen's mention of movies, a psychiatrist recommended the movie "Damage" as an example of a predator manipulating and controlling someone vulnerable.
It is difficult for "nice" people to comprehend that others are not. And it becomes confusing when others who are not nice act nice. The sincere person does not understand that it is an act on the part of the other person. The behavior of the predator is contrived in order to manipulate and control the innocent "nice" person. The story of RSE.
The film "Damage" plays this out. Starring Jeremy Irons and Juliette Binoche.
(Could it be why she likes to use a marquee to announce events?)
'G2G, Have you heard the expression that the eyes are the windows to the soul ? At the beginners event I attended in January 2005 there was one evening with "Ramtha."
I was fairly close to the stage and I thought to myself that something was vastly different. I thought nobody was home downstairs and Ramtha was actually absent. It was sort of like the body was animated without an occupant. The eyes were different....not in physical appearance but in the essence emanating form them. I did not have the same impression at other events I attended in 2005.
At the beginning event he made a few really filthy, debased comments.'
Yes I have indeed heard the quote 'the eyes are the window to the soul.' at my summer beginners which was live streamed, Ramtha showed up quite late and was obviously under the influence of alcohol. It was the one where he sneezed and said 'I wish my channel would cut her nose hair.' This was the first time I saw Ramtha live and only saw DVDs where he/she was poised and offering the teachings. So there were people who were there and shocked when he/she began spatting on the stage. I wasn't up front and after awhile a light review was done on a guy who the entity said was having fanatasies about a woman of power while he was with his wife. It went on. Then later I made my way to the front so that I could deliberately catch the gaze of the entity and watched. What I noticed was that the mouth seemed to be moving in the same way a puppet moves its mouth nearly with a delay. It was all very weird and the night was long and I was disappointed because I wanted to experience what I saw on the dvds. My friend who wasn't sure if they believed it was a channeling or an act asked other people who said this happened in the past and that he/she can just turn just like that. I always remember seeing that the mouth did not appear to be moving in congruency with the manner in which we move our mouths talking. It was very odd. There were profanities too. I left thinking ok we are not to judge. There was a lockdown since wine was present. I didn't drink and I know what I saw thinking it was a lesson for me. So in a way I did learn something but it was so different from what I hear and see in earlier teachings. I wasn't sure about the channeling myself but when I saw the way the mouth was moving or with a delay when I got up close, something HAD to be going on I thought. So I wonder was there a Ramtha that is now gone which is where I lean, but who or what is being channeled?
My intuition tells me its tax time. Several events were added. But why not show up at the other events where people write there was no Judy/Ramtha(copyrighted) and add several events now. It should be of no consequence to me. One thing that is important to me is to look to the future. thank you for the on trusting my intuition. I know what I feel , oops know.
People confuse judgement with discernment based upon observation.
An objective observation is if you are certain of what you have witnessed.
Judgement passes condemnation upon another without sufficient evidence to support the claim.
In the case of RSE those who defend the teachings as being so beneficial are welcome to SHOW everyone their benefit and those of us on this site may well change our minds in the proof of the observation.
Sporadic instances of miraculous accomplishments don't cut it. Of what provable value are the teachings in daily life?
Does the ability in sending and receiving cut your phone bill? Does the ability to telepost enable you not to use convetional modes of transport anymore?
Does your remote view ability enable you to do your shopping and find the things you want that are the right size, colour, style etc? The perfect Item may be an hours drive away. Can you use your ability to find it?
Does your levitation ability enable you to harvest your apple tree without climbing up and down a ladder or get up that cliff face near the ocean on your holiday to get a better view?
When you went to the future and bought back advanced technology did you get yourself a food replicator so you do can order what you want and recycle the leftovers and waste back to the quantum field?
"The mouth did not appear to be moving the way we move our mouths when talking. There were profanities. I left thinking, OK, we are not to judge."
Great example of how an innocent and searching person is "tricked" at RSE.
First lesson - You are God (and who wouldn't want to be?)
Next lesson - No judging.
Now the naive participant is in a conundrum. They observe strange things which they might normally question BUT no judging allowed...
The first rule of cults is to employ techniques which derail independent thought.
'When I looked for it at the library I found the sound recorded version. In 1988 JZ read the book aloud, it was recorded on cassette and published by Random House. When I listened to it I was really shocked because as she is reading the book she sometimes has to quote "Ramtha." SHE SOUNDS IDENTICAL TO HIM. She has no trouble switching back and forth between her voice and his. If she and he are different beings she would not be able to do a perfect imitation.'
During the summer beginners there was no accent at all during the live stream wine imbuing event. lots of wine and profanity and a guy accused of mental adultery who was told by JR that adultery would not be tolerated in his school. What concerned me was the something like 'admit it' -not exact words but what I remember- followed by 'or I'll put you down' which I do remember. That's fear instilling. No accent. After another event several old students were having wine and talking and one of the older students said Judy can impersonate Ramtha(copyrighted) and Ramtha(copyrighted) can impersonate Judy. Wine lifts the veil. Buddhism teaches about the veil but without the wine.
I'm not sorry I went and I did learn things that are indeed taught in other places in this world. I learned and dug into myself while walking that field. But to be honest with those seeking truth with pure hearts and inform you need to be prepared with waders is what I think is honorable. Taunting people at a beginning event with a huge buffet on an exotic island is misleading.
"Judy can impersonate Ramtha and Ramtha can impersonate Judy"
That would make sense as there seems to be no difference between them!
The story of "Ramtha" admonishing the student concerning adultery reminds me of an appalling sight I witnessed at the Primary 2006 retreat.
On the last Saturday evening there was a wine ceremony and Judy/ramtha was drunker than drunk. I was sitting within view of the stage and watched her stumble all over. (People watching the monitors don't realize how much they don't see - the cameras are often focused from the waist or shoulders up.) At one point she leered out at the audience and pointed while commanding "STAND UP!" About 5 people stood up. "NO! I SAID, YOU! STAND UP!" As the others sat down she screamed again, "YOU! YOU! STAND UP!"
With apparent hesitation a very bewildered looking man stood up. "THAT'S RIGHT! YOU! I SAVED YOUR LIFE! YOU WOULDN'T BE ALIVE RIGHT NOW IF IT WERE NOT FOR ME! I'M THE ONE WHO SAVED YOUR LIFE! (After a continuous stream of this Judy/ramtha finally got to the point.)
"YOU WERE GOING TO DIE ON THAT OPERATING TABLE BUT I SAVED YOU! YOU WERE HAVING A HEART AND LUNG OPERATION AND I SAVED YOU FROM DYING! I'M THE REASON YOU ARE ALIVE RIGHT NOW." All the while the man is standing with a bewildered expression on his face and his arms slightly aloft as if to say, "I don't really know what you are talking about." After more of "I SAVED YOU!" Judy/ramtha finally bellowed, "SIT DOWN."
The next morning, Sunday, I saw the fellow and asked him about his surgery. "Are you OK?" He looked at me and said, "I've never had heart or lung surgery." "Hmmm, well, have you ever had any surgery?"
He continued to stare at me and said, "No."
So there you have it. In her drunken stupors, it would appear that Judy/ramtha just makes things up perhaps to impress the audience. Typical alcoholic behavior.
Of course this "show" was recorded and if you would like to see it for yourself why not contact RSE?
G2GNM - 'lots of wine and profanity and a guy accused of mental adultery who was told by JR that adultery would not be tolerated in his school. What concerned me was the something like 'admit it' -not exact words but what I remember- followed by 'or I'll put you down'
As tenured ones have said, there is more going on than it might appear.. 'the guy' was a rich and loyal student. 'the adultress' a bosom buddy of JZ's, who also happens to be a head turning latino celebrity. (Course, she wasn't knocked sideways about adultery...) Seems it was just girlfriends lookin' after girlfriends best interests, using her BIG alter ego persona to tell the married guy to get lost... After all, best girlfriend's VERY RICH Mr. French Moneybags was in the picture 'bout that time; Wouldn't want ALL THAT money to move on, due to some little tryst thing....now would we?
FTQ posted: "Of course this "show" was recorded and if you would like to see it for yourself why not contact RSE?"
Oh, this is just TOO good !!!!!!!! Laughing Out Loud
I also viewed that event, but not in person. I think that the Primary 2006 Retreat deserves its own thread.
I did see the man who was accused of being (mentally) unfaithful. I watched as he was being physically hit in the chest repeatedly. "Ramtha" went on and on, in a tirade about this topic, IN FRONT OF HIS WIFE AND ... CHILD ... whom I would estimate was about 8 - 10 years old at the most. Ramtha said that said man was fantasizing about being with the channel and another woman, also, instead of being with his wife.
Also of interest to note is that the man denied it. Maybe he really was innocent, I can’t say.
Who in their right adult mind, would communicate about such a topic, abuse a parent, IN FRONT OF A CHILD ?
In my opinion, THAT was child abuse. I think that exposing children to the obscene language and very adult dialogues at that "SCHOOL OF ENLIGHTENMENT" is child abuse. It NEVER used to be like that, that I recall. The deterioration is immense.
I've posted about this before, but for the newer folks on this site, it bears repeating.
After reading the post about "I SAVED YOUR LIFE", I got to thinking about this smaller incident of my own.
I was in the process of builidng my house and had take a a chronolgy of pictures of the process.
At the portion where I was putting the roof on, there was a huge (what I know NOW to be) plasma thingy on it.
The next picture was this HUGE orb. At the time, I thought it was a water spot due to the fact that it was raining.
A year and a half later, Ramtha (copyrighted) said: "It is at this event that a new dimension has opened and these orbs /entities are able to appear here."
I checked the date on my pictures, and low and behold, this orb had showed up a year and a half earlier.
How did HE make that happen at that event?
When I had one right there in full color a year and a half earlier?
Whatcha, I have heard fragment of information from the Primary Retreat event. It sounds like there is much more. Can you elaborate?
I wasn't implying that there was "more". But, the topic has come up a number of times, and is fairly recent, so it may deserve it's own thread, that's all.
I would love to thank Tree right now, for entering this forum.
I now better accept the impulses I had to get out early [I lasted 3 years], and why so many little things felt so creepy [the robot like devotion of some staff people I worked with, and the hypocritical behavior of some students that forced me to learn that attending RSE did not necessarily mean one was a sincere level headed individual].
I now also better see how cool "teachings" [that CAN be got from Elsewhere], are used to mix with ulterior motives.....so thanks David, for starting all this, I think this chapter of info is giong to do the trick...notice all the readers this thread has!
Im waiting for KRSE to have one of "us" on as a guest...you know, the x-students side....hmmm.
Anyway, I wish everyone the lightest and fullest of transitions back in to Your True World of Free Will and Self..
PS. Tree, I was wondering if you can speak to the subject of Old Ram/New Ram, and what you think about all that in general..her channelling him, and the "purity" aspect...was JZ a Better Person before say 1990? Do you think the Real Guy Left and now its just a plain old mess?
Anything you write is Soooo intersting and needed to be heard.
(clever name btw )
Having only discovered two weeks ago that I was indeed a part of a cohersive group (cult is too loaded of a word, IMHO), I am still unraveling many many aspects.
Having seen the NLP Darren Brown videos on Google helped me realize that 1) JZ was a fromer top sales person for a cable company. Not some demure housewife. She is a brilliant woman.
But I do know some sales people are trained in NLP. I have no clue as to if she was, but marketing tools are endless when combined with what we know about the brain.
2) having read here that she took acting lessons in California sort of pieced a few things together.
I know some people believe Ramtha never really existed.
After having seen the Mafu Google video, I am questioning why they are so similar.
I am still quite confused as JZ the person, was always very very big hearted with me personally. (I think the pay wages stunk....but , I have to add here, that after seeing my physician a year and a half ago for some situational stress involving my son and my immediate supervisor's boss aka Bluebody aka James, which my physician happens to have been the one to have documented JZ's chronic fatigue healing, she told me during that visit: " I would recommend you find another job as the work situation there is highly dysfunctional." That really opened up my eyes, to say the least. From a scientist, no less!! And I could not have agreed more as I had been employed previously as a buyer for a huge computer related company who had set protocols and rules outlined for all employees. At RSE, they have very few written rules, and even more "unspoken but understood" rules. And if you cross those, be ware!)
So for me, to have interacted with her, it is still quite confusing to my brain.
She is a brilliant woman, very results driven as far as work is concerned (she has admirable work ethic-just as I do)and
dearly loves her children and grandchildren.
I suppose if I were to separate the two, I can do that.
I am wondering though how Wikipedia has a definition of Ramtha. Was there any other source for his lifetime other than what has been given at RSE?
I am tending to lean in the direction of "The Illusionist". I thought that movie was totally brilliant and awesome.
Seen from another perspective ( after having been invited IN in the first viewing-sort of like the movie "The Sixth Sense") I can see the brilliance of the whole show. It is a matter of viewing it from a different perspective.
I did not know where to really post this, so I will just do so here.
Yesterday, I went to look at a stone job ( masonry is one of my skills).
I had met this guy through one of the people whom I currently do work for.
I got to his house yesterday, and within 3 minutes, he had said: maybe you recognize me from school.
Well, I did not, but we got to chatting and it turns out, he was in school for about 5 years and has been out now for about 7. His mother is still current.
He talked about his observations of what effects RSE has on families.
I truly hope he posts here, but I was amazed at the destructiveness the effects it has on families ( recurring theme ).
Loss of closeness, with members of the families who are still in RSE.
Total self centeredness of those still in RSE.
Unwillingness of RSE students to look from another perpective.
He went on with about 6 immediate items that has had an impact for him.
He talked about finding another sense of community and how devestating that can be for some people. Fortunately for me, I have my pokerschoolonline.com buddies and I have you here at the EMF site (insert big thank you and big hug here to all of you!!)
He knows of several others in this area in recovery groups of sorts and I found it amazing the common thread of post RSE students in their ability to want to share and give in whatever capacity they are able. I call that true compassion.
So just know that information and word is spreading.
I did mention to Joe Sz that I think the new Wal-Mart should be converted to a Shrink-Mart....as when the chips fall, half the town and surrounding area will be ready for the looney bin!
I want to share with you an e-mail from my best friend who lives 3000 miles away.
She sent this to my son after she flew out to be with me after my initial discovery weeks ago. Who else would go that far to be with a friend who felt like they were going off the deep end....
I am truly blessed with her and all of you.
Thank you so much!
Hey _______ !
I hope you're doing ok out there. I was supposed to call you when I flew out last weekend and just couldn’t find the right things to say. So I did not call. I am real worried about your mom. I know the both of you are having a real hard time right now but I really don’t feel I have any business stepping in there. I’m writing to you just to let you know your mom is a really good person. Unfortunately her choice to attend that fricking school cult bs really messed her up and now she has to deal and try unwind the whole deal. I want nothing more than for her to seek counseling for whatever she needs. I flew in because she is my friend and I did not want to see her just whittle away. When you called from Florida regarding the James Jones thing you were right on target man. Cults are very messed up. I knew when I met your mom that her ideas and notions about life and the way people needed to be weren’t exactly um the norm. I think the more she is exposed to the real world outside Yelm the more she could see for herself that what she had been taught and what's real are completely two different things. Now she is really having to readdress her whole belief system. Not sure when or how she is to get this accomplished but I will always keep pushing for her to find herself. Nothing like waking up one day and finding your whole life in a jerry springer world.
The only thing I know is that she is a smart funny person when she is really herself. I would just ask that you find time to check on her once in awhile. She is very alone and no one deserves to kicked to the curb and washed away just “because”.. I would prefer that your mom not be anywhere near those freaks. I don’t think you ever wanted her there either. Maybe you can see to it to help her out of that acid tripped town and just go from there. Nothing is ever perfect. You have your things to deal and I think you're doing your best. That's not so easy either. I can't do anything other than ask that you find some place in your heart for your mom and can help her out. She really needs real people, real world things, real world place.
That’s it bud. No response necessary as I am just letting you know where I am. Take care of yourself and keep moving along.
There was a period of about 20 years when Ram's every statement overflowed with love, even when he was being reproachful it was with such great love that even the insecurest of students felt it. Perhaps he left just prior to when the cursing began.
I've never believed in demons till this year, upon hearing and reading some well known speakers/writers, i.e., Dr. Wm. Deagle. As JZ's behaviour and values demonstrate, she's not amongst the most enlightened spiritual beings. I'm wondering if upon Ram's departure, someone else stepped in, or maybe she does have a very fractured personality.
I thank God and Ram for my opportunity to have learned the greatest wisdom and teachings I've ever been expposed to, and I thank God, too, that I didn't get sucked into the seemingly all-powerful religious/political cults that control the minds of the majority on this planet. I've never experienced such pure love from anyone as I did during my precious years with Ram. I will always, always love him.
I LOVE RAMTHA....
This has always been the main problem at RSE.
People are soooooooo into the love they feel with regards to Ramtha's poetic words and how they play with ones emotion that they forget about their own evolvement and progress.
Many more women than men are drawn to Ramtha because of insecurity issues.
Women want to feel the power that has been denied to them for millennium and Ramtha makes them feel wanted.
The student most of the time falls in the trap of feeling needed as if Ramtha wants and needs their love.
And they are always consistant with giving away love that could be realized within themselves if only worked upon.
Like the "ole" saying goes. "Heal thyself first physician ".
Nothing.....and I mean nothing can develop, nor can any thing good be trully realized personaly from one giving ones power away to another, and the power of God is love and a god without HIS/HER love intact is nothing more than a spectator.
Best to you and your life "I Love Ramtha".
Because Judi will rob you blind and Ramtha will eat you for breakfast when the time is right.
Of couse maybe you like being the appetizer.
LOL. I am a former student. Was not an insecure woman, nor (LOL) do any of your perceptions apply.
I can't help but laugh at your points of view, just can't help it. I have no interest in defending the empowerment and all the wondrous knowledge I received from Ram. You don't understand my perceptions,nor my experiences of him, but that's ok. Bless you.
Women loved their spouses - the illusion/mask/persona that attracted them into the web of what became abusive.
What/Who ever you loved as Judy's Ramtha was an illusion - from day 1 - That you learned, is a gift; that you were in an abusive relationship, no matter how sweet, is a given.
I can only say to you that if you truly believe Ramtha was not here, you didn't have the ears to hear, nor the spirit and heart to feel, and that his repeated admonishment, "WAKE UP" was indeed appropriate. That's why he left - we refused to AWAKEN and give up our addictions to victimization, suffering, and emotionality. Voila - this forum.
Yes, in the last few years from 2003-4 things became pretty freaky. That was when I realized something had changed and wasn't "right" and so dropped out. The "Ram" on the stage was no longer the Ram I had experienced. He said he was leaving and he did.
This website is a testament to his reasons for leaving. You are bearing out what he came to know about us - we were not ready for The Great Work. You are not being honest with yourselves about why you are enjoying this forum to share and vent about your experiences and perceptions of the school. Truth is, you still enjoy victimization and suffering too much to make the changes necessary to be the gods you are; the emotional charges in this website are too too delicious! What a great place to get those chemical fixes. You probably weren't willing "to own" his final observations of you then and probably still haven't.
And let's say hypothetically, that all those years of teachings really were only JZ's con - had you before or since ever heard teachings so resonating to your soul that you picked up and moved to another state? The teachings given were the greatest to ever grace this Earth, and as it turns out, WAY too highly advanced for but few of this planet's humanity; and based on this forum this day, (the teachings were, as he stated before he left,) WAY too evolved for these students.
In his parting words he stated it had been his mistake and failure based on hopefulness to think we were ready when in reality all we wanted was to continue in our prmitive ignorance (sexuality and emotionality) and apathy (paraphrased of course) just as we did 35M yrs. ago.
The infractions of JZ and the staff should not be used as fodder for denying and demeaning The Great Work of a Great Teacher.
I am embarrassed and ashamed being a human in this insane world of sleepers (reflected in this forum), just as I was ashamed when he would say something so profoundly touching it caused me to weep while others in the audience laughed. They didn't get it then and probably never will. And it's unlikely you'll find those who did get it in this forum, cause it's boiling down to the same issues that brought him here in the first place - we are stuck in the first three seals. Y'might as well join a religion and cheer the wars on - why the hell not, you haven't even applied the simplest of the teachings!
Carry on, x-students. ("WAKE UP" didn't work then and it's obviously too late now.) ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
I Love Ramtha:
You are the one who sounds EMOTIONALLY CHARGED. I will also add that you sound very opinionated and judgmental about people that you do not know.
You have YOUR arrogant set of principles in your own mind that you believe are the standards in which others should be living their lives, should have heard the teachings, should have implemented the teachings, and should have lived their lives after the teachings. Sounds like you don't live the truth of the Master's words: Allow everyone their truth and don't judge them. Hmmmm....maybe you missed that event.
Let me set you straight for the record for you:
THIS WEBSITE WAS CREATED TO ALLOW THOSE WHO WANT TO, TO HAVE A VENUE IN WHICH THEY CAN ADDRESS ISSUES THEY HAVE BEEN REPRESSED FROM EXPRESSING.
THE PEOPLE ON THIS WEBSITE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELVES VICTIMS. QUITE THE CONTRARY - MANY HAVE MOVED FORWARD AND ARE LIVING FULFILLED LIVES - I AM ONE OF THEM. MANY HAVE ALSO SUFFERED PERMANENT LOSSES - AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO AN OPINION ABOUT THAT SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW THEM. THEY DON'T CONSIDER THEMSELVES VICTIMS. THEY SPEAK THE TRUTH - THAT THEY WERE MISLED.
You have come onto this forum and berated posters over the course of several postings now. You need to stop or your posts are going to be pulled. You can call names and point fingers over that if you need to (victim????), but you are clearly not respecting the intended, STATED PURPOSE of this website.
If you believe that Ramtha exists, and you agree that the reasons he has left are along the lines of the issues that those of us who care about INFORMED CONSENT, have been bringing to light - then - perhaps Ramtha would approve of this website, should he speak about it. If Ramtha is who he says he is, he would not be attached to the outcome. He wouldn't be judging those who participate on this website. He would want truth.
We are bringing truth. You are free NOT to read it.
I love Ramtha and the teachings too. IloveRamtha you have expressed my thoughts the past few hours exactly. Wow. It would have been really interesting if I had actually posted what I was thinking about posting on this site. It would have been almost word for word what you have written.
I think the ideas Ram brought to us were far ahead of our time. Very few of us were ready, just like few were ready to hear the message of other great teachers in their time.
While some people are sitting around complaining that it can't be done, others are applying the knowledge and getting the results. Godspeed to the ones that are not giving up. See the post on "Hope and healing"
Anyone is entitled to their viewpoint about Ramtha's reality/nonreality. Anyone is entitled to their viewpoint about if he left, why he may have left. He threatened to do so MANY times through the years. There is a thread titles Does Ramtha Exist ? We've opened that up so that the topic can be genuinely addressed. It has been acknowledged by some that maybe there was/is/never was, a Ramtha. But those things are not the issue.
Nobody would dispute (that I know of) that a genuine message coming from the 4th seal and higher, is a grand thing. Whether it come from a Ramtha, or any of the historical teachers of eastern philosophy. The message of God Within is not new, and it's not unique to RSE. That is not said negatively, by the way.
There are folks who think there was never a Ramtha. There are folks who think he has left ..for whatever reasons. That has been claimed throughout the years, that he left at such and such a time. It's not a new supposition.
There are folks who would disagree that he has left and would say that he is still channeling. Whatever. Nobody can prove it and if he's real, seemingly, he doesn't choose to.
There are people who have cited good/bad times at RSE on this forum. If someone thinks it was "all bad", that's their business. If they think it's "all good", that's their business. But, that's not what this forum is about. The forum "rules" clearly state that this is NOT a place for posting pro-RSE dogma/belief/your-truth. It also says that flaming others won't be tolerated. No message forum allows posts to remain, that violate their posted rules, nor should they. We don't ask for permission; we have a right to have this website and forum. RSE has a right to have a website - and to exclude what it chooses to. Both need to be respected, whether we agree with it or not.
It is quite another thing to post on this forum, and in doing so, flame every poster and pass judgement on them. ILoveRamtha did just that, despite having the choice not to.
Watcha, this is what I see as the stated purpose of this site (see below.) How has IloveRamtha violated any of the "rules" of this site? She is a former student, she has some issues with what is happening at RSE today. I guess I am a little confused...
This is what the EMF message board intro says:
Welcome to the Enlighten Me Free Message Board Forum. This forum is primarily intended for former students of the Ramtha teachings. It's a place where they can disuss and share experiences and receive support within a sense of community & network with others. Family and friends who need support due to concerns they have with regard to experiences they've encountered from their loved ones in RSE are also welcome to post.
Certain topic threads on this forum will allow room for opinions on debating issues. Topic threads that welcome debates need to be stated as such when begun, not afterwards. All other threads will be specifically and only for support and sharing experiences and opinions.
This is a moderated forum. Post using maturity and respect toward others, in particular when you don't agree. We're all entitled to our viewpoints, and posting our viewpoints. However, be sure you disagree with issues, instead of attacking people. Vitriol toward ANY group or individual is uncalled for & may result in a deleted post, and possibly being banned from further posting. Further, solicitations & advertisements will be deleted without notice.
I put great care into responding to your post. It's lengthy, so please bear with me....
To Wolfman, ILR says, “I can't help but laugh at your points of view, just can't help it. I have no interest in defending the empowerment and all the wondrous knowledge I received from Ram. You don't understand my perceptions, nor my experiences of him, but that's ok. Bless you.”
Interesting, since ILR has expressed opinions that s/he UNDERSTANDS those who post on EMF, and yet has opinions about them that are... sheer unfounded opinion. And as you continue to read and see the trend - they are negative toward EMF posters.
“I can only say to you that if you truly believe Ramtha was not here, you didn't have the ears to hear, nor the spirit and heart to feel, and that his repeated admonishment, "WAKE UP" was indeed appropriate. That's why he left - we refused to AWAKEN and give up our addictions to victimization, suffering, and emotionality. Voila - this forum.”
ILR’s opinion is that Ramtha left. Others would not agree with that belief, for assorted reasons. The innuendo is also there that this forum correlates to victimization, suffering and emotionality. More opinions (fine), but negatively referencing every poster on this site. Not okay.
“Yes, in the last few years from 2003-4 things became pretty freaky. That was when I realized something had changed and wasn't "right" and so dropped out. The "Ram" on the stage was no longer the Ram I had experienced. He said he was leaving and he did. “
That’s fine – that’s ILR’s opinion.
“This website is a testament to his reasons for leaving. You are bearing out what he came to know about us - we were not ready for The Great Work. You are not being honest with yourselves about why you are enjoying this forum to share and vent about your experiences and perceptions of the school. Truth is, you still enjoy victimization and suffering too much to make the changes necessary to be the gods you are; the emotional charges in this website are too too delicious! What a great place to get those chemical fixes. You probably weren't willing "to own" his final observations of you then and probably still haven't.”
Yes, this website does bear out what “Ramtha” (assuming he exists for the sake of making these points) came to know about humanity. I did not make the choice to act in the manner that issues presented on this site have brought to light. I am a very mature, well balanced person. Anyone who knows me will attest to that. I KNOW I am one of many. I’m disappointed that RSE didn’t have its ranks filled with people such as myself. I do NOT mean that to sound arrogant. I was a very good, sincere student. I don’t know of a poster on EMF that was not that. But those students did not sustain by remaining in that environment. If Ramtha is real, is it possible that he is still in the lives of students who have left ? If he is who he says he is, the answer is yes. Ironic that anyone would think one would have to be in the school, to gain the master’s attention and/or guidance. Laughable, really.
But, I digress. ILR’s post-quote above, clearly slams posters by saying, in part and at least, “Truth is, you still enjoy victimization and suffering too much to make the changes necessary to be the gods that you are…” That does NOT belong on this forum, and supports the overall tone of ILR’s posts that are hostile and inflammatory. They are going to be deleted if it continues. They may be deleted, anyway.
”And let's say hypothetically, that all those years of teachings really were only JZ's con - had you before or since ever heard teachings so resonating to your soul that you picked up and moved to another state? The teachings given were the greatest to ever grace this Earth, and as it turns out, WAY too highly advanced for but few of this planet's humanity; and based on this forum this day, (the teachings were, as he stated before he left,) WAY too evolved for these students. In his parting words he stated it had been his mistake and failure based on hopefulness to think we were ready when in reality all we wanted was to continue in our prmitive ignorance (sexuality and emotionality) and apathy (paraphrased of course) just as we did 35M yrs. ago.”
Let’s say, hypothetically, that yes, there HAVE BEEN other teachings that so resonated to the souls of others. It is one’s opinion that the teachings that were given were the greatest to ever grace this Earth. It is also opinion that he has left. That’s fine. At least this isn’t a direct slam to EMF posters.
”The infractions of JZ and the staff should not be used as fodder for denying and demeaning The Great Work of a Great Teacher.”
First of all, this is ILR’s opinion. Second of all, the opinion that infractions of the staff and JZ should not be used for fodder, is not only opinion, but patently false. There is nowhere else that people have found, to get the information and/or support that THEY need and/or want, other than this website. MANY people (including private emails from those who haven’t posted), have expressed gratitude.
Despite that there are folks who aren’t pleased that this website/forum exists, it has a right to exist. It is serving a helpful purpose. Also, to do so without having to tolerate flames from people whom it clearly isn’t going to serve. ILR (nor anyone I know of) has the ability to see my spiritual progress, yours, or anyone else’s. To post as s/he has done, is not only inappropriate, it’s pretty arrogant.
”I am embarrassed and ashamed being a human in this insane world of sleepers (reflected in this forum), just as I was ashamed when he would say something so profoundly touching it caused me to weep while others in the audience laughed. They didn't get it then and probably never will. And it's unlikely you'll find those who did get it in this forum, cause it's boiling down to the same issues that brought him here in the first place - we are stuck in the first three seals. Y'might as well join a religion and cheer the wars on - why the hell not, you haven't even applied the simplest of the teachings!
Carry on, x-students. ("WAKE UP" didn't work then and it's obviously too late now.) ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ “
Again, stating that one would be unlikely to find those who did get the teachings in this forum, is just another negative opinion, flaming those that post here. It’s out of bounds. If the posts get deleted, this one, too, will also be deleted; I mean the one I AM POSTING.
Flaming is a slang word that can also be referenced by saying, not to use vitriol. Exactly as it stated in our posting policy.
I hope that helps to explain. Not that we have to agree, but it’s a sincere reply to your question. We knew when we started this forum that there would be angry (gee, emotional????) people who would attempt to post on here and slam those who find this website helpful. It's to be expected when there is a controversial subject. That's why there are posting policies.
How does you explain the infractions of JZ? Where do they fit into the whole picture?
Even though you consider that Ramtha left, are you in contact with him?
'''''I am embarrassed and ashamed being a human in this insane world of sleepers (reflected in this forum), just as I was ashamed when he would say something so profoundly touching it caused me to weep while others in the audience laughed. They didn't get it then and probably never will. And it's unlikely you'll find those who did get it in this forum, cause it's boiling down to the same issues that brought him here in the first place - we are stuck in the first three seals. Y'might as well join a religion and cheer the wars on - why the hell not, you haven't even applied the simplest of the teachings!
Carry on, x-students. ("WAKE UP" didn't work then and it's obviously too late now.) ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ''''
I'm utterly stunned. If you do employ the teachings how can you make such a statement? Alrighty. It's YOUR neuronet you through which you are seeing this.
It is my opinion the early teachings are indeed beautiful. However, something has gone terribly astray. The entire purpose of the Ramtha (copyrighted) teachings was to elevate the person. It as all about US. Now it is all about the Incorporation, selling seats, making more $$$$$.
Your neuronet is getting in the way of seeing that the teaching of Ramtha (copyrighted) is to MOVE ON AND BEYOND HIM. He did not wish for anyone to hang onto his coatails, as he stated. This forum is in and of itself a 'graduation' of those who, if Ramtha IS, he is indeed proud due to our having moved on and not clenching to the school for security. We are moving on, taking responsibility, creating lives and in many cases wealth and health. Would we have done it otherwise? Again, it would be through the neurological network of the individual. Your reality differs from mine. Each reality is different within the 'neuronet.' We were told we learned everything at our beginner event, even teachings that took 18 yrs. for the older students. So this is you perception via your neuronet. I'm moving on. It is your choice to stay where you are or finally 'graduate' from the school, which is what an enlightened being would want. His purpose, if he did exist, was to teach us and not to sell 'reserved' seats at $1000 apiece. One can do a bit of empire building with that. Each one of us will live in our neuronet-neighborhood and you can live in yours. There is an abundant need for compassion within the school. People have forgotten the earlier teachings of the other great masters, ie Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and the others.
The early teachings again were wonderful. They're gone and what is in their place? Shame on the students? You can't do this because you can't change? How different from what I expected and read and saw. Guilt is one of the 'traps' holding us back, in Ramtha's (copyrighted) words from evolving. Yet the person/entity now employs it to inflate cash inflow? Notice how many new events were added this tax season. March 20 at $50 a head. Then the primary took place at $1050 for the event alone. Then another questions and answers with Ramtha (copyrighted) from Friday evening until Sunday at $600 a head. Then a Times to Come added at $250 a head. Tax time.
Blessed be you within your neuronet. We have and are moving on, graduated and Ramtha would be proud of all of us questioning, if he does indeed exist. It's those who hang onto him that he dared not show his presence to for fear of being worshipped -again assuming he did exist.
I'll take what I learned and continue to live the noble life and experience the unconditional love and compassion for all - even someone such as Saddam Hussein. For we are all one. May you awaken into a blessed reality. I hold no grudges and leave no footsteps. Become the master or the higher self that you are, as we have learned we can indeed do this on our own. It's the message. It's the complete message.
Hop to it!
Whatcha, you are right - I became very emotionally charged. I apologize for the arrogant statements I wrote after " ...that we are stuck in the first three seals." Please note I included myself in much of the post when I spoke of "we" and actually felt myself included when I said "you," but was trying to make a point. I apologize. You're right I don't know any of you and obviously still need to work on judgment and allowing.
The presumptions of Wolfman and Cynical: I never fell
"...into the trap of feeling needed as if Ramtha wants and needs their love." To me, he is a Christ - they don't need such things. Nor have I known anyone who did fall into that trap. It's a bizarre concept, how can I not laugh. And Wolf's statements about giving one's power away to another? - Ramtha never spoke or behaved as someone who wanted to rob me of anything. My experience with him was that he was impeccable in working to empower us in becoming unlimited. But that's my experience.
It was only towards the end of my schooling that I began sensing and observing ingenuiness and something out of kilter - around 2003-4.
"...and Ramtha will eat you for breakfast when the time's right." ?????? Is this considered a "flaming" and/or "arrogant" opinion? And I might enjoy being Ramtha's appetizer? That's cute, too.
Nor is there any correlation between Cynical's thought process and my relationship with Ram. He never abused me - she knows nothing about me either, as I don't know those of you posting, but in her arrogance claims "it's a given" that he abused me.
It's an interesting forum that's for sure. I understand it's purpose now.
Yes, I become very emotional when my dedicated and loving teacher of the past is slandered.
To Cowboy - I guess that's the million dollar question. And the second question - I hope so.
I thought this posting was for "personal experiences."
So far, I have only shared my experiences-facts( and most d o c u m e n t e d ). Not once have have I ever stated how I feel/felt about them.
Now it seems this thread has turned into one big slander vs slander.
What is God's name is everyone thinking?
Words have been used as weapons instead of a vehicle of honest discourse.
Might we resume where we initially started?
So sometime, late Saturday afternoon, a new person writes a post with some nostalgia for the past. Her ‘mom’ (in her next lifetime) lets her know a thing or two. Then we are off to the races – and ‘Arrogance’ wins again! Such a ‘peeing contest’- kinda hurt my heart to read it all.
What happened? I checked my calendar – could it be pre-Earth Day anxiety? Influence of Lyrid Meteors? Moon in Cancer? Sun in Taurus? Since we are humans, and tend to be (only at times..) opinionated, judgmental as well as vulnerable – regarding our own experience; and, others actually. The escalation to ‘he said she said’….can we make it less important to be right?
I think people should feel safe in posting, period. I mean, if this were a football game, there would be a huge pile of humanity on the field right now, bleeding. And a flag was thrown – a technicality called. Was ILR pro-RSE? I don’t think so. She got a little carried away- she was wounded by words. Can everybody see that judgment/advice given to another poster started the judgment- arrogance cycle & it grew, with indignation and anger added as spice?
Back to intent of EMF – Open forum, to a point, right? Healing, sharing, camaraderie, exchanging notes, dirt, secrets, yeah, all that. But TRUTH can be told directly with sensitivity and tolerance.
As this site is viewed by more & more people, the range of thought forms is going to get wider. Such skirmishes create intimidation to post. Group sophistication is such that each post CAN be seen for what it is. So much is here now - it takes days, weeks to sort thru it all.
Perhaps naive, but I think acknowledging both +/- experiences is a more powerful stand. People are choosing to ‘graduate’ – end of story. Criticism, told-ya-so’s, River-in Egypt warnings (denial)… Since everybody already has a well intended mom who tells them like it is… I vote for more humor, that doesn’t cut too deep.
And P.S., we ALL have challenges being our divine Self, seeing ourselves in others. This is yet another place to try!
People have posted good/bad experiences that they have had at RSE, myself included. People are safe to post here.
Yes, the forum is large and it takes a long time to read through all of the posts if one is totally new to it. All the more reason for posters to post carefully.
I don't agree with your perception of what and how it unfolded.
I do agree with ILRamtha's most recent post, where s/he admitted getting off track. S/he was RESPECTFULLY communicated with (by me), and she commented to others about things they said that s/he found charged. That's between them and will hopefully be handled respectfully, too. If I didn't care about ILRamtha's ability to post here, I would have played "Mom" and simply deleted the posts. That's so not my style. Instead, I took great care for about an hour, to talk through her post. I also received private emails from people, too.
It's not going to do anyone any good to slam others here. It's only going to degenerate a thread - and we ALL need to be careful of that.
I have been reading all the posts since I started this thread. The last 25 post are the exact reason i have stopped posting here on EMF because there is a history of attack and defense here spattered with open and honest self sharing.
I started this thread as an attempt to consolodate true stories for questioning students and potential students to read and evalutae for themselves based on past student experiences. It has turned into a banter of opinions and attack and defending. The whole intention of the thread was lost. Anyone who is looking to sort through the emotionally charged writings to find the facts within will more than likely get bored with the overabundance of emotion and judgement meant to be placed in another thread.
I am thankful for EMF but ask everyone to really consider what they are about to post and ask yourself does it apply to the thread intention or should I start another thread.? Maybe I should e-mail directly to the poster to defend or opinionate? (is that really a word? :-) Any how, I am thankful for the gifts and sharing of everyone who shared a story and a fact filled contribution to this thread.
Since you started this thread, let me ask your opinion about "closing" the thread.
NOT for any "bad" reason toward anyone. Just that there is some concern that the thread is SO long that people may give up reading.
I do agree that more frequent, smaller thread that stay on topic as much as is possible is helpful. (assuming everyone cooperates and the moderators don't feel pressured into playing bad cop)
I can "lock" this thread and if you would like to, you're welcome to begin a "part 2" of the same thread. If you wanted to start the new thread, then post the title of it on THIS thread, to direct people to the new one, then I could lock this one.
What do you think about that ?
I'm sorry I can't email you directly, but you didn't post an email (that's okay). In any case, I want to ask your input.
Thanks in advance.
TREE...... I Have a question.
After 9-11 Ramtha came out and told a packed house that he predicted the 9-11 tragedy to his staff members some nine months before the Towers Imploded.
I remember looking around at staff that I reconized and saying to myself, "Ther'e not looking like they know what he is talking about."
Do you remember anything regarding Ramtha's Predictions?
And to my dear dear "I LOVE RAMTHA".
Are you familiar with Ramtha reachings on a "Light Review"?
I see not.
Ramtha as a Light Being "EATS" all with weepy emotional moments.
Its called being stripped by the LIGHT of Positive and Negative.
It was at a comrade only event up at the house (that was NOT recorded) that it is said 'R' predicted the fall of the plane in Pennsylvania; yet no one truly recalled because copious amounts of wine were consumed.
As for the "light beings" teachings, they were directly taken from Matrix II book that was given to JZ.
I remember the Light Beings teaching. As those of you who experienced it know, it really rocked most people to the core. Rather, scared the crap out of them.
People were feeling like they were going to be in oblivion. How would they know who they were, if part of their identity was stripped at the light (eaten by beings of light) ? How would they recognize their loved ones ? How scary is that ?
It also brings to mind a similar teaching about El Camino. The theme of not remembering was heavy throughout that one, too. I was bored silly listening to that drone on for hours and hours on end, personally.
"I remember the Light Beings teaching. As those of you who experienced it know, it really rocked most people to the core. Rather, scared the crap out of them."
totally! plus, we were instructed to burn any notes we had taken. I elected NOT to.
No, that wont be necessary but thanks for the consideration.
The Light Being teachings came from The Gods of Eden - William Bramley. It's in the Yelm library. Perhaps it is also in Matrix II - Judy's source was The Gods...
I said "Light Review" teachings. Not light beings.
Students are subject to their light review in which the positive and negative aspects of themselves are brought together in a chaotic affair that "shreds" the limited soul into a whirl wind of forgotten particles.
It is liken to the Egyptian teachings of weighing ones heart against a feather.
The short of it is this.
If you haven't OWED every thought in your life you will eventually go to war with the polar opposites of those thoughts and be locked in mortal combat in a never ending battle between good and evil.
This is what dear ILR doesn't understand.
But in all fairness to the sweet little neophyte.
She is not yet ready to understand.
Pity the poor followers.
She is too busy with feeling "lovey dovey" with her teacher when she should be looking to "slay" the SOB.
TREE..... So sorry that you couldn't hold your wine at the comrade party and remember his so called predictions.
But I do understand THAT predicament.
This is my perception (hey, using my neuronet!) but I didn't see that Tree said she was at the meeting. It seemed to me that it was something she'd heard. Tree, please correct me if I'm wrong.
She's a very strong 'Tree' indeed, and since it's still so close to Earth Day, here's a huge hug for Tree, for her courage in leaving rse and sharing her experiences. [[[TREE]]] Grow strong and stronger until you are your own Shambala!
Wolfman, if I could block your nasty posts I would. I think your comments to ILoveRamtha are plain hateful.
Somehow, there appears to be a double standard regarding "vitriol" on this site. Where are the moderators now?
Anybody seen the moderators around here.....
Where could they be?
Wolfman..could you give a howl and wake them up?
It is obvious they are not paying attention..
There are some “Ramtha” infiltrators hiding behind a mask of indignation..
Try not to bite..they taste terrible.
David, I really enjoy your humour.
Do you have substantiation for your reference to the "light review?" That was "taught" at RSE and anything offered there is subject to further investigation.
Although "Ramtha" made reference to it many times
it was presented in detail at an event called "Plane of Bliss" in 1997. That was followed by another event "Plane of Bliss II." Then there was the book, "The Plane of Bliss" and also "The Mystery of Birth and Death."
JZ made plenty of money off of that dogma. And still is - the "Plane of Bliss" was rereleased on CD not too long ago.
excuse me wolf - light review. Gods of Eden. - the 'don't go to the light or you'll be stripped' teaching. First time was about '91 or '92.
"Light being"teaching's concept(about total soul awareness, consciousness and personal memory ) being "consumed " after death by "beings of lights" comes directly.....from Carlos Castaneda book.
I didn't burn my notes, either.
Reminds me of fairly recently (within a few years) when we were told to get rid of the videos, The Two Paths and the Rockumentary because they were old timelines.
I wonder what the REAL reason was ????
I paid for them, they're mind, and I still have them.
Tree, do you know what that was really all about - being told to get rid of those two videos ?
Needing to unclick the notification box cause am getting too many notification emails. (Don't know how else to do it.) Hope this works.
I hope this begins a new thread. I noted several comments about the old "loving" Ram as opposed to the new "deranged" one with the dividing line around 1987. The newRam is RSE in the C&E era to put it simply.
When I last moved 4 years ago I trashed my copy of the Ramtha 'White Book' and the early doc. that it was based on, "Love Yourself into Life," so I cannot reference them here. Some posters [eg i.love.ramtha] compartmentalize the old R as a loving being who taught stuff as recorded in the White Book.
One of the new revelations in the C&E era was a dire secret that if you die do not go to the light because you will be slammed randomnly into re-existence and a body by Light Beings that are there to keep humans trapped here. "Go to the Void" said the new JudyRam.
Someone pointed out that Judy got this idea from Matrix2 [perhaps; I threw my copies of the Matrix books away too] and someone else mentioned Gods of Eden by William Bramley (1989&90). Bramley does talk about the random reincarnation on page 99 and other places. Bramley is an attorney (now maybe 51 years old) who spent 7 years as a young man researching a weird hypothesis that supernatural aliens he calls Custodians maintain humans as a slave race. He found evidence in ancient Sumerian writings, the Bible and into modern stuff like the I AM cult books by Godfrey King (Guy Ballard--died 1939). The Great White Brotherhood that the early, pre-C&E Ramtha claimed to be member of (Council of 13) are the evil Custodians according to Bramley.
William Bramley is not the author's real name. He suddenly became a UFO buff's cult figure after his book came out in 1989, and he was quite surpised by the reaction. He does not appear in public to promote himself as such. He admits that his book is pure speculation. According to Jonathan Vankin in "Conspiracies, Coverups, and Crimes: Political Manipulation and Mind Control in America (1991) "Bramley"'s thesis is: " Human beings appear to be a slave race breeding on an isolated planet in a small galaxy. As such the human race was once a source of labor for an extraterrestrial civilization and still remains a possession today. To keep contro over its possession........[the Custidans] bred a neverending conflict between human beings......." (48)
Vankin interveiwed "Bramley" in person for his book (chapter 4). "Bramley" said he would not write a followup. Vankin said that the man is "boring" [just your average attorney] who otherwise is a meticulous researcher for his cases. The Eden book was a kind of speculative romp that some naive folks took seriously. Perhaps JZ was one of them.
My old cult CUT taught from 1965 that planet Earth was indeed haunted by superbeings that could trap us for their own needs---CUT called them Watchers and Black Magicians. The Watchers were angel beings co-opted by CUT from the apochryphal Book of Enoch (1st century)
What this indicates to me is that the early Ramtha was identified as part of the Custodial "light beings" and "Watchers", then somehow, realizing "his" mistake (after reading some bizarre, speculative material) decided to teach about the Void.
What next? Any ideas?
If Judy/ram is true to form, the teaching will revert back to the first one. And then after some time back to the void. It is a technique called confusion!
Can anyone say more about the Matrix books? Never heard of them...thanks.
"Reminds me of fairly recently (within a few years) when we were told to get rid of the videos, The Two Paths and the Rockumentary because they were old timelines.
I wonder what the REAL reason was ????"
I think the reason with the rockumentary was/is that she never had the integrity to get permission to use the music on them, or, if she did, she got some sort of licensing "for educational purposes etc. I happened to have bought a copy at the outback and have kept my receipt just in case I have the time to follow up on this one
Under Red Herrings Red Flags Graced wrote:"A "red herring" is a false path/information/event/ whatever that appears true - emphasis on appears true. It's an 'ok to go' sign.
A "red flag" is a STOP/look and listen sign. A warning something is not right here.....
Red Herrings are also the experiences of learning each of us have had while participating in Judy's world -- we attribute them to Ramtha and the validity of the School or both. ....
Attributing your experiences to Judy's Ramtha and giving validity to a proveable abusive mind controlling environment is throwing away the baby and keeping the bath water."
In 1984 I described my first experience at a Judy’sRamtha Dialogue as being in an ocean of love. It took 23 years for me to recognize that the ocean of love was due to the people gathered together with a single intention of wanting to know God and love themselves and others more… And the more Judy’sRamtha confirmed what we knew already, the greater we felt. The ‘synchronicities’ were astounding – the apparent fact that Judy’s Ramtha knew exactly my concerns was stunning. It took me 24 years to recognize that where two or three are gathered – the concerns will be the same. So as Graced explains, there were many red herrings in those early days – Dialogue Days. The “teachings” resonated with what I had learned via the Cayce material, and Ram Das and some others. God within – and the admonition to always thank God for whatever our accomplishments (as seen in the Honolulu Video). The first red flags began with the “Intensives” and ‘circles’. Homosexuality, along with whoever you are, was ok – as long as we proceed with love. Suddenly homosexuality was a condition worthy of death. Fear was instilled again. This was about 1986. There had just been the first “teaching” on the ‘days to come’ – the get land, become self-sufficient ‘teachings’ – that were initially part of another Intensive – in which Shirley McLain was humiliated. The ‘days to come’ stuff was edited out. Later it became a ‘teaching’ unto itself – and fear was spread throughout the land. …. By then we trusted Judy’sRamtha. … It took me until ’93 to recognize how much the entire experience of Judy’sRamtha was fear based. It took another year to accept that the “Gathering of the Eagles” talk was NOT, as many suggested, the time that Judy’sRamtha left – the talk was pure unadulterated manipulative in the classic style of ‘domestic violence’/abuse. … There are ‘experiences’ and there is knowing = which comes of a balance of physical mental emotional processes and becomes more than its parts – knowing – when there is a shift in perception and perhaps dimension – for me, it’s when I’m changed – become the more I want to be. I knew then, there had never been a Ramtha. Others have different knowings.
For all of us who resisted the value of studying history in school, it becomes clear in the saga of Judy’sRamtha that knowing history is relevant. The change didn’t happen in the last few years – there has always been change in Judy’sRamtha’s ‘teachings’ and presentation and accent etc. – even though in the ‘80’s, particularly with the upgrade of recording abilities at the ‘events’, Judy’sRamtha would repeatedly proclaim “my words will be true 100 years from now”. That lasted less than 2 years – with the introduction of fear – and the start of “I lied”…. Study the history of Hitler – much loved in the beginning, people experienced the greatest teachings to have ever graced the earth…. etc. Study the progression of Hitler’s life, and loss of sanity. Study the history of other leaders of ‘we are the elect’ groups.
It was devastating for Dorothy in the “Wizard of Oz” to recognize that her savior was an ‘actor’ --- That’s what this message board is about – hearts going out to people who’ve been kicked in the gut with the realization that their savior was an actor --- And to assure others that, as Dorothy, we can come home again, that in fact we already have the courage and brains etc. that we need.
Blessings to you who love Judy’sRamtha. My initial post wasn’t intended to be a put down or ‘flame’ – only a succinct statement of what I perceive to be the facts. There is no convincing the convinced. We who have in fact awakened can only reach out to others. Hold on to your knowing until you’re ready to let go. We did.
I was never a comrade, so I was not at the evening in question to Ramtha's (copyrighted) prediction of any planes crashing.
The (then) head of the video department told me (and he was there) that there was no tape rolling as there had been a tif between some "upper staff" concerning video taping events up at the house; so the tape was not rolling that evening.
As far as the pulling of the videos, cd's and books with "Ramtha" smoking or drinking, all were pulled. What I gathered was that it was not good for the new marketing.
Gods of Eden and Matrix II (the book) were both referenced for light being teachings and the "light".
Well you guys, this website has proven to be for me an awesome fertile ground. Who, ever, would have thought it! I've spent the last days reading almost all the threads, contemplating so many thoughts, opinions, my (now) historical personal paradigm, etc.
Unbelievable "What a difference a day makes."
So I'd like to share with you a little of the process I've taken myself through, questioning realities, paradigms, etc.
Have known forever the agenda of the christian religion, i.e., via the catholic regime's history and personal experience; have recently come into a basic introduction to some islamic beliefs, via the war. Have contemplated these things, relative to the time period of my awareness of them, deeply and long, and been questioning all since chidhood, knowing lies and programming have been rampant as long as recorded history, but always believing that Truth "is out there somewhere, and I will find it."
These last few days been considering the various, (some) formerly accepted statements and concepts of wisdom presented by Ram, that seemed so abolutely "Truth" to me. And have been thinking back to my days of discipleship with my guru of the 70's wherein I learned the concept, "Thoughts are things," which resonates to me even now, and realizing my level of acceptance over the years, I thought this morning, "Well, the yogic philosophy and teachings, being the most ancient to my knowledge, must be the ones closest to Truth. But wait . . . who initially presented all these religions to Earthlings? And whoever they were, all had their agendas. How can I know which one truly had humankind's welfare and liberation as their purpose and goal? What if none has? What if none of these paradigms is concerned, designed with our enlightenment and evolution at heart? Okay, if that could in truth be the case, where do I (we) go from here?"
All I have is my inner guidance and wisdom, and what does IT tell me? It tells me what it has maintained steadfastly since the 70's when I asked my guru, "Why are disciplines the only way - why can't liberation be accomplished simply by being as loving as we can?" "Because WHO truly loves.?" he responded.
So today I'm returned 360 degrees - seeing that the only absolute Truth I can be sure of is Love. And as I imagiine the rest of my journey, pursued with no un worthiness, no dogma, no teacher, no guru, I'm feeling embarked on a journey of joy - "joy" because it feels so FREE; and as I image myself meandering along this journey, adjoining little pathways pop up here and there, adding to the highway of my journey little bits and pieces of collected wisdoms to which I feel the Spirit within in me smiling and whispering, "Yes."
Oh what a great relief this is! I'm feeling so happy, so free. Thank all of you who have posted here. The myriad of voices and opinions, some more wise than others, but all provoking me into contemplation of considerations and awarenesses new to me. Thank you, I had NO IDEA of the wonderful journey I was embarking on since my introduction to this forum a few days ago. This is quite amazing. What a profound experience this has been.
LOVE - THAT'S IT. Amazing, amazing, amazing. Thank you. XO
Wow! What a turn around!
big big hugs to you!!!
Knowledge, an open mind and sharing can lead to compassion.....
Matrix II was in a paper bound version- 8 by ten...red cover, plastic sheet over top.
I will endeavor to find the author.
Someone at "Lemuria" aka Mail Unlimited aka
MU might know.
scroll down about a quarter of the way...
Val Valerian was in RSE a very long time ago.
This is his project.
"As far as the pulling of the videos, cd's and books with "Ramtha" smoking or drinking, all were pulled. What I gathered was that it was not good for the new marketing."
Tree, I heard from a blue college student that this was the reason for the removal.
The "Matrix" books were written by author: Valemar
Valerian. As Tree said, he was a student in RSE.
In my original post on this, I stated this, but as I signed a condition of employment, I could not state what my part was in this.
But as the Blue College student stated, yes, that is correct.
and...for further review, I am citing said source, and find it highly applicable to right now , as we post; from The Matrix V
I am not advocating this site, by any means, but if the shoe fits, explore the site
Principle of Allowance (releasing control of beings and experience)
Principle of Attraction (what you give is what you get- like attracts like)
Principle of Intention (placing intent in creation of new experience)
Principle of Harmony and Balance (that which manifests when others are applied)
“In observer status, you do not move against the Game, but you can definitely point out
the Game’s mechanics to other interested observers. Share what you see. Remember, you don’t escape by fighting the Game, but by removing yourself from it. Remember what the
word ‘observer’ means, - a non – participant in events, but someone who takes note and
“for those who are observers, you need to look deeper ,much deeper at developing events/situations in order to see the roots of the issues.”
- from Matrix V
How do, it was a pleasure to read your post. Really enjoy your writing style. Succinct yet it flows.
Thanks ILR. Interestingly, Judy'sRamtha of the early '80s was absolutely opposed to 'disciplines' and groups/consciousness. Although he said it in every Dialogue from '84-'86; it is also on the "Superconsciousness" tapes. (about '86?).
The Universe provides a cirriculum of learning - has been my experience - adventures on the journey, as you say. For free. The hardest discipline is staying mindful through the everyday... and remembering Love. Blessings on your journey.
Val Valerian - ahh- look for the Leading Edge website. check the library. Look in the Yelm phone book for John Grace. He takes all his material from elsewhere. And was one of the first to put it all the weird stuff together in one place. As far as I know, he's looooooooooonnnnnnggggg out of Judy's world.
Yeah, Val Valerian. He was in the school quite a while back. I'd estimate he left around the early to mid 90's.
From the little bit I knew of him, he was a bright, organized person, who enjoyed gathering information.
He was somewhat high profile and had a lot to offer.
Cynical writes:''''The hardest discipline is staying mindful through the everyday... ''''
Very nicely stated and quite true, I have found.
One must work through the problem/emotion/experience first, then chalk it up to experience/wisdom. It's a journey through our individual lives, and it's wonderful. One book I enjoy reading is the Gita, the recitation of Krishna to Arjun in the battlefield. The 'me' IS me and all of us.
Thanks Cynical for the gentle reminder about daily mindfulness - you're right, and for telling me about Ram's early references to disciplines - got out my Superconsciousness and have begun relistening. After seeing y'all's posts about the Matrix books, I got out my copy of Matrix IV. And tonight was at Amazon looking up some books and saw it for sale for $249.00. I paid $50 for it in the early 90's. Wish I'd bought the others.
wANTed to get this up a little closer to the top since there is a lot of invaluable information included in this thread. If you feel it's inappropriate, please delete.
bump this up...
there are inquiring minds who want to know
Perhaps you should start a thread and summarize what your experience was ? Would you be willing to do that? If not, that's fine. I just wonder how many people will read through this whole thread and see what you have had to say, that's all.
Speaking of personal doubts, I really doubted what I was hearing at an event when "Mr. Ramtha" got onto the subject of another spirit, none other than "Seth."
Jane Roberts published many books she claimed were written by a spirit named Seth. She went into trance and dictated to her husband. Over the years I had read all of the books and the information covered a broad range of topics with the main focus on consciousness.
I really wondered about "Mr. Ramtha" when he started talking about Seth in a derisive manner. Criticizing another spirit? Isn't the sandbox big enough for everybody? He ended up screaming, "SETH IS NOWHERE!" I thought to myself, "Gee, I would say I've learned more from those books than at RSE."
gee, I missed that one about Seth.
I read them all as well before coming to RSE.
"Isn't the sandbox big enough for everybody?"
-one would think so as "Fabulous Wealth" is endless.That is, unless you copyright every little thing in your organization and sue anybody who remotely channels or gives "Fabulous Wealth" seminars.
I too read SETH material before I came to RSE.
I read it while in the dungeon at the Kern County Jail.
It conditioned me to accept a Channel.
A few years ago Judi stated that she couldn't read Jane Roberts book because the cover scared her too much.(The one with a vortex spiral with Roberts picture in the middle.)
Judi's scam was beginning to show at this time and I was beginning to see all the way through her "hair extensions".
I heard Ram say once that Seth's material on the OVERSOUL was incorrect, or incomplete.
This I believe to be a correct statement.
wow, 8178 people have read this post - do you think that is the whole school - hope so - like I said in Feb, you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time - yes, the school will fall - only time will see it all happen - what were we all thinking - sure feels good to be free - you know I don't even care if the world ends tomorrow - the fear has left the building and it makes everything just fine.
i think tree brought in the days to come wave this time.like politicions need a war...jzr needs the days to ...to stay clear of harm on this story.dont let her.
I vote this LONG thread comes to a sweet end... it takes too long to get to the bottom! And yes - it has indeed achieved Scheherazade status - thousands of eyes have now seen the night and the light of dawn..
Is there any way to keep this "sticky" so that it remains near the top of the list of topics? It's an absolute must read for anyone considering attending the school, as well as for those who have exited or are contemplating such. Just a thought.
This thread is going to be locked from now on, so will remain as "read only".
Tree's posts will be reposted and have a thread of its own, soon.
Thank you to all who contributed to this thread.