The REQUIRED Blue College event is about to start...

Those students are doing all they can to prepare for being in their tents with whatever food they can manage to keep, for 10 days.



I have a friend here where I live, ex-Ramster, who got an email from a friend of hers. The friend is a very long time student, who basically never criticizes or complains about anything. Well, she said in her email that she was planning to attend Blue College and that she wasn't happy about it. She'd rather be on a vacation island somewhere, instead. She said they are going to be blindfolded for ten days, with only provisions in their tents, and also they are not allowed to go to their cars.


For the first time, this student is expressing doubts to our mutual friend. In the past, for all these years, she would have none of it. Any expression of doubt was stopped in its tracks. But, she's SUPPRESSING what she feels about NOT wanting to attend this event. I would imagine that a whole bunch of them don't want to do this. They've been taught to dispense with their critical thinking and to silence their doubt, because it will betray them on their path to enlightenment.

Instead, they give their power away to others to decide these things for them. How does that jive with being a sovereign God ?

Your thoughts are so outside of the box that people that are so into running to a event that they don't think that way. Thank you so much for expressing you... because I have been in Blue College and when I was there I never wanted to question my inner thoughts outside to people, because I knew they would not understand.. So many times, I thought why am I spending this money to stay in my tent when I could really have a vacation and really enjoy myself..

Thank you for your post....

Just curious about the new rules...if a Blue College student doesn't make it to their required event, are they no longer current as an RSE student, or just as a Blue College student? Do they have to start over again as a beginning RSE student?

Some ex-RSE students have expressed to me that they kept attending events whether they wanted to or not, because to miss a required event meant having to pay all over again to start back as a beginner. I've known people who did that several times.

Then there's the peer pressure to stay with one's group, and the fear that one might miss out on some secret information that could be crucial to their future advancement in the school, or even their survival. I know what it feels like to have a conversation stop when I walked into a room, because as a non-current student, I wasn't supposed to hear what they were discussing.

It wasn't like that in the pre-RSE days, when we could freely talk about anything we learned. If it was spiritual knowledge, and we are all Divinely created spiritual beings, then there would be no reason to keep anything a secret.

In the old days, we'd get a schedule of events in the mail, and we'd use our own knowingness to tell us what, if any, events we felt pulled to attend. Nothing was required! But if JZ wanted to ensure a steady, dependable income, what better way than to form a "school" with required events and so many "secret teachings" that fear alone would drive students to get to every event they possibly could, so as not to miss out?

Whatcha, The blue college event sounds barbaric and brutal.

Years ago on Paradise Beach we did not have tents. Most had a blue tarp to keep off the rain, snow etc. We actually had ice INSIDE our sleeping bags.

Everyone put on more protective layering.....hardly a test of getting beyond the body. The temperatures got down to 8 degrees Fahrenheit..... which is minus 13 degrees Celsius.

At the time I thought His Eternal Excellence knew what "he" was doing. RSE is degenerating into cruelty.

One Time there was a required event that I decided not to go to. A family member was going, so we thought hed tell us a clue or two when he got back. It was a weekend event. Befoer it was over, I had a dream that was real long and busy, but all I could remember was that it was about "seratonin". When my brother came back from the event, he said he couldnt talk about what the teaching was about.
I told him I dreamt about seratonin...and that was it...
So I gathered I could do the research on my own if I wanted..and therefor, I "got" the jist of it.
This was cool for me becasue I learned I could "recieve" general information about stuff at the school and didnt have to go there. I then moved away for 6 years, and noticed that my life was often lined up with what I would learn were particular teachings being expounded upon [as Id call Yelm to find out what I could from those who gossip!]...
and so I never really felt I was Missing anything.
Yeah, the secret thing seems pretty silly now, especially when all the restricted tapes are available, and all other stuff is out that in the early years was REAL secret! Im listening to tapes of restricted events in the freedom of my home, that Im not "supposed" to have!...well, theres way cooler info out there not coming from Ramtha,,,so, not missing much is how it feels...except the high of wearing blinders for long hours...I admit I never do that willingly at home alone!

Why do students tolerate having to live in dire conditions, for 10 days/nights, when their insides are telling them not to ?

This event might just be The One that they gain enlightenment. It might be The One that if they do not go, they miss something so crucial to their evolution that it puts them out of the loop. They believe that Ramtha knows better than their inner voice. Etc.

These things happen because students allow it. If they all refused to attend the event, the teachings would have to change, now wouldn't they ? Or if they all showed up withOUT tents, then what ?

What is the common thread with these thoughts ? Fear, being disempowered, and brainwashed.

I have also had the experience where I didn't attend certain events, only to dream about them and "get" the core part of the teaching and later have it verified when I told an attending student what I "missed". Further, when I attended an event when Blue Body was first being introduced, (around the general time of Easter), I came home to see my little child hand me a paper (welcome home) and it had a bunny on it - colored in blue webs !

Personally, I do believe at a level of spirit, we are all connected. If only we believed that and lived KNOWING that. Well, some of us do. There again, is where (for me), I come back to the following; I am responsible for MYSELF being a virtuous person in my actions and words. I KNOW I am very intuitive and I will be guided in ways I may not even be consciously aware of...and I don't have to be in the arena to have, or to deserve that.

RE: Whatcha and Seesall
Whatcha said "...I will be guided in ways I may not even be consciously aware of...and I don't have to be in the arena..."
And THAT is what it all boils down to, TRUST and/or lack thereof. Its the same old ANCIENT question, Am I guilty or innocent? Do I have to DO something to prove my worthiness?? and how much? and for whom? and how often? etc.
OR, AM I just the most sepctacular being my inner God can envision JUST THE WAY I AM????

If we ACT like missing an event may mean we dont get to "Heaven"(sorry couldn't think of a better word) what does that tell our kids about the next "event" their peers are having? or the next war the government is "having" for that matter...

I felt some pain when I pulled the ring out of my nose, but the bleeding stopped, and I can still breath fine, better with the extra little hole actually!

Hello Watcha,
Didn't I read in another thread that you attended RSE for 20 years? How much time did you spend in a cold, wet tent eating out of a cooler? Any innocent person unknowingly caught up in a cult deserves love and compassion not criticism.

Onehand,
To answer your question, if someone in Blue College misses their retreat they are no longer in BC. They are still "current" if they attend any retreat.

WannaKnow,

You said, "Hello Watcha,
Didn't I read in another thread that you attended RSE for 20 years? How much time did you spend in a cold, wet tent eating out of a cooler? Any innocent person unknowingly caught up in a cult deserves love and compassion not criticism."

If you think I don't have love and compassion for those who will be, and have been in cold, wet tents, eating out of coolers, you are sorely mistaken.

If you have read my words to "hear" criticism because they are doing so, again, you are mistaken. I am worried about them.

I know in the past, of many of them doing just that, who got pneumonia. Or got very, very ill. There is another poster on this forum who has a story to tell about that which I did not witness directly. Perhaps he will tell the story about those who lay sick outdoors with nowhere to go and the staff that ignored them.

Yes, they deserve love and compassion, and it would be ideal if they would allow themselves to receive it. But this isn't ideal. They are in a cult and they will not listen to reason. I know. Been there, done that, despite the patient and impatient love that my family and friends shed upon me. You can lead a horse to water...

As for the tents, I never stayed in one. I always chose the option of a van, RV, arena, or hotel room. That was just my choice - not to be confused with a judgment toward anyone who chooses a tent for their own reasons.

THE event begins...
This may take awhile...
Re: Wanna You mentioned you have read Whatcha's previous posts, I have too. In no way have I ever felt whatcha was critical or uncompassionate of those who choose to stay with the program at RSE. If anything, I hear just the opposite.(My opinion)

Earlier in this thread I mentioned puuling the ring from my nose, in regards to RSE. I (in no way) spent the amount of time, $$$ and energy most of the posters on this forum did with JZ/Ram. So it still blows my mind how easily and deeply I was "caught-up".
We just got back from a run to QFC (local food store). We saw at least 7 Ramsters we know gathering their supplies for the event.I am sure many of the crowd there tonight were also students and we just dont know them. I saw one of the 1st women I met from the school a long-time student whom I respect and admire deeply.(She was my "taxi" driver) It was great to feel NO pull what-so-ever to wanna be going to the event.
My beginners and follow-up was Oct 05. "WE" were singled out (our group) to attend Blue College in Feb., OR if we chose not to we could go to the March Primary Retreat instead.
Because, in order to leave my husband, leave my 18 acres + log cabin, leave my business, pack up my 4 dogs & 2 cats, 1/8 of my "belongings" and travel with my new partner, who sold his home, closed his business, sold 1/2 of his equipment... to Yelm to live... I MISSED the Blue College Retreat.(and the Primary, it took us 4-5 months to get here in a used motorhome)
Tonight, in QFC, I remembered how terrible I felt the night I knew I was not "there" (we were in Nashville)as last years BC started... I felt like such a failure, like I really blew it, I was one of the chosen and I couldn't pull it off.( see I was already a "good" candidate!) Here I was, in my way making the absolute biggest statement with my life that I felt I could... headed to Yelm to be with this wonderful teacher and these wonderful students...
I saw them tonight, the wonderful students and although I felt no need to be doing what they are choosing to do tonight, and no regrets as to my many "choices", I do feel a sincere and deep compassion for each of them, as for myself.
THANK GOD.

dance,

i heard from another that there were many students shopping (of course they were), and that the roasted chickens were sold out. good for the grocery store!

so, how's the weather out there ?

not too bad. Warmish, a bit rainy. Won't be a rough night in the tents... it was a beautiful day.

Hi everyone.
Been reading this site and posts for a while. This is my first post. I am not a long timer like most of you but was invited to BC at the beginners follow up in 2005? I experienced the Blue college in 0 degree temps last year and I was all too proud of myself for sleeping in my tent the whole time and making it through, as though I had accomplished something important.
Anyway, I was all ready to go to this BC and in the last few months leading up to this time I experienced an inner knowingness as you have all described at one time or another....just a feeling...I Also had some outward manifestations to confirm.
For example, my flight schedule was changed and I was "mistakenly bumped off the schedule".
Serindipity???
There were other manifestations that I believe I created to outwardly show me that it was time to be done with RSE.
Last week I decided not to go after many of the same doubts you have all expressed at one time or another.
I thought it might be helpful to share this experience.
I had all the doubts that I have read here. I will miss something,I will be a failure, I will have had an oppurtunity to finally get the real secret of life etc.....
Well....Last week when I cancelled my trip to BC.
I was almost overtaken with a connectedness of sorts to my true god that it brought me to my knees sobbing. I felt for the first time that I now really knew what it was like to be one with my god as they say.
I have since felt a sense of loss of community, a connectedness to likemended folks I guess, but no regrets. Only left with a feeling of personal power that I cannot explain.
My Blue college event was the moment I took action on all my doubts etc and decided to not attend BC. and stop giving my power ( and my hard earned money ) away!
I should add that I feel no regrets about being a student either. I learned much and am greatful for the experiences and it was my choice to be there...
I went to find some life answers, I suspect the very reason you have all attended. Our evolution takes on many forms and we did not attend this place because we were ignorant. We went because we believed it was a path to enlightenment. That is why they are all there this week. Still searching....desperately trying to find god...
I am also greatful not to be there tonight in the rain, wondering how I will make it through the week.
Anyway, just wanted to share.
I wish everyone here love and healing and the knowledge that all that you do in your journey is correct and as the poster says "the power is in you"
P.S. Just a thought.....
I was told that there really is an entity called Ramtha that he was here before the mid eighties, and he had a message, when his message was delivered, he just left. JZ was so upset at the thought of losing her place in it all that she just kept channelling.....her ego....she is searching too...
food for thought.It explains a lot to me...

Congratulations, JB, on your graduation from RSE. You expressed so well what many of us have felt and experienced. If you need support, or just want to connect with other like-minded people, just reach out and you will find that we are here for you. In fact, I have an idea for in-person interaction that I think I will share with David...

thank you jb for your post

I, too, was not a long time member of the school - I read the White book in the early 90's and loved it - I still do - to me it has a very different energy compared to the retreats and the CD's - I like to think I keep what is best for me at the moment and release the rest. I have been reading spiritual subjects since I was 16 years old and have read a lot of these subjects. I am looking into myself as why I was so attracted to them all these years - with no judgements, just wondering to understand myself more.

In the last few days, I have felt a connection to my God like I have never felt before. A conncetion of oneness to everything around me - I don't mean to sound new agey at all - it is just how I am feeling right now. I feel this calm inner peace and today while driving and watching the sunset, the sky and clouds, I felt I was in "heaven" - what ever that means - it was surreal. Yes, I do live in a very beautiful part of the world but this was nothing like I have ever experienced before - I can't explain it as there are no words to explain something that one feels in one's soul.

After the retreat, I felt "dirty" - and thought I was going crazy - drained, disoreintated, lost etc. - then I went through a space of "knowing nothing" - it was scary in that space, like I didnt' exist and then I started to come back - I felt like I was being emptied and the only things that stayed with me were love, compassion and understanding - mainly for my self. It was like I didn't need to think about anything as everything that I needed to know was already in me and I can draw on it any time I want.

I love this site as I can write and share with all of you - it is what has helped me this last month and for that I thank you deeply. I know some of you have gone through a lot and I only wish you the best, because that is what we all deserve - and I can feel (through the words) you are all already home.

It is a strange feeling now to feel the way I do - but it feels really good - a silent kind of feeling - with more understanding of the human race - I also have less judgement for myself and others.

So I thank all of you for coming out and sharing this with all of us - I think a book would be a great idea with everyone having a chapter - what an amazing book it would be and I feel it would help so many people.

I only am sharing here so please don't take my words apart and dissect it please - I love you all

JB and Marching On....

JB said, "Only left with a feeling of personal power that I cannot explain." and Marching basically said the same thing.

You can't explain it. It's a feeling and a knowing inside of us. It is what happens when we've been enlightened FREE...free in our souls...you can literally FEEL it.

Yes, the power is in us, and it's free and freeing, on many, many levels.

GREAT posts ! You summed up what others have realized, too.

If this website helps others in that way, great. Especially before they face financial ruin in their sincere quest to know God.

Re: JB
Thanks! so much for your post!! Since I have been on this forum, there are many long-term x-RSE students and a couple newbies like myself. I really appriecaited hearing your story from the same follow-up I was in.
I met so many wonderful people during my beginners and follow-up, I was there for both consecutively (2 weeks) and it was a transformative experience to say the least. I have only remained in contact with a couple people from my beginners, they too, did not continue, and a couple of us moved here in the interium. I am returning home after a year.(And a clearer VIEW, NOT remote )
Congratulations on taking your own hand, on your own journey!

Hi Dance. We attended the same two weeks, I continued in BC last year. and a few other retreats. I am still in contact with a few BCers.
One is totally supportive of my decision. She's really together, still in BC for her own reasons.
The other has stopped talking to me...how interesting.
I am pretty far away from Yelm, but actually thought about moving there and to be honest with you I almost lost my relationship over all the rse stuff.
I was so spiritually arrogent during that time.....
anyway...lots to share along the way...but as I said...no regrets, no anger, no remorse, no pointing fingers...just another learning experience for me.

JB
Spiritually Arrogant??? Who ME? never.....


I am PRETTY SURE that commonality was THE MAIN reason for my "attraction" to the RAM.

Weather update
Day 2 at their event... Sunny and cooler than yesterday(which I am sure went past 60 degrees!, but warming, had some rain this morning.
So far no catastrophic weather episode, (as the Ram put a scare in everyone about).

Well, here I go in a writing mood, and afraid what I want to say will attract ire, but oh well, censure it if you want.

Regarding the roughing it in the weather, and all else ordeals of attending events...
The main reason I went to events was to learn more about how to willfully experience other states of beingness...
sensory deprivation/roughing it in the cold..etc.. does help that to happen. I was many times in the wilderness, and "caught" in situations that caused this stronger part of me to defy my usual ways of operating..and little "miracles" happened. I tolerated the "suffering" at the Ranch, which I knew was temporary anyway...because I knew the point was [in my mind anyway], to get beyond the bodys discomfort level, and see where that goes. I know many people didnt have anything fun happen on paradise beach and the Field...but I DID...and thats why I returned after dropping out one time...because I missed the name field...I missed being blindfolded, and challanging myself. I actually enjoyed the field, EXCEPT when I had a hard time being IN THE MOOD!!!
I never went to RSE to worship Ramtha...in fact it repelled me greatly when I first saw people at the Masters center passing around a Ramtha Doll [A JZ Barbie more like...really!! about a foot tall...oh lord!!!].
Even the first time I saw Vidoes, in 1986, I did NOT like looking at JZs body...it distracted me from listening to the words...
So I saw the school similar to a place like Bunji Jumping class, or river rafting, or even skydiving...all those things IM still scared to do...and I wondered...do I HAVE TO? Now I know ...NO

Seesallsides,

I recently had a conversation with somebody who is now at this BC event, This person could barely afford to buy firewood this winter to keep his family warm. I asked him why would he put himself through such an ordeal especially when he could use the money elsewhere, I suggested he could camp in the mountains for a week and save himself $1200… perhaps take his family on a holiday… he answered that he needed Ramtha and the group energy to push him beyond his limits.. That “conflict” was essential to grow spiritually.
This reminded me of my past RSE indoctrinated attitude “brainwashing”
That convinced me that I must suffer and be tested to gain so-called enlightenment. The next step in this madness is to believe that others need to suffer to evolve.

Life itself will always present us with challenges and to think we need
to “ bring it on” in the name of “God” is destructive and perverse..
not only to ourselves but to our loved ones.

In my opinion…

David

RE: David,
"and to think we need
to “ bring it on” in the name of “God” is destructive and perverse..."

You sure got that right...and for me that's what it all boils down to. Are we (inately) gulity or innocent? RSE is still, in many ways, operating from the old paradignm. Which is funny (not haha) since JZ is "teaching" the new one (??).
I guess its a good thing they split the teachings, cover all the options, ya know?
Sure we can push ourselves to unfathomable limits, and experience a state of grace. But, a state of grace (even its name) implies a gental awakening.
It takes alot of inner "work" to realize that perhaps our old ideas of "work" dont necessarily "work"
Like in my family I always used to say the life "rule" was "You work, you work & work, then when you die, you maybe get a better "job" but, probably not." So once again I was a good candidate for RSE!

Did anyone here go to the BC event? How was it? People seem pretty tight-lipped about it except to say that "it was fabulous."

I remember someone on this sight saying they would ask Ramtha some quetions. I cannot find the thread or remember the posters name but if you are reading this can you let us know if you were able to ask your questions?

Hello, this is my first post.....I am replying to "On the Fence", who asked if anyone had actually attended BC! Yes, I did. Fabulous? Yes, I would describe it as fabulous. We had been asked to "be prepared" to be under blindfolds for up to 3 days, among other things, but that didn't happen. Instead, Ramtha led us in all of the traditional disciplines including the card field, gridding the sky, archery, etc., adding new perspectives and different approaches for successful practice of each discipline. He also taught much new information on the quantum field, introducing powerful ways to conceptualize and work with this new information.

I actually have been "introduced" to this forum via a post earlier on this thread from "JB".....I'm her "supportive" friend, and thank you, JB, for describing me as "having it together!" always nice to hear. I continue to attend RSE for a simple reason: my life outside the ranch after each retreat has evolved in terrific ways, in particular my mastery of emotional reactions, my relationship with my family of origin, AND some really cool unexpected money manifestations. So why am I on this forum,,,,,I've always been a researcher, and find that it is valuable to look at all views when arriving at my own truth. I'm not here to convince ANYONE to attend RSE...on the contrary. I have been involved in many different spiritual/ growth schools and trainings, and I feel strongly that each of us must choose our paths, not feel forced or coerced into any.

I just want to respond to some of the posts, on this thread and elsewhere on EMF, that depict those who stay in the school as cultish followers, having abandonded all rational thought. In my experience, nothing is further from the truth. I have experienced tremendous benefits from challenging myself at RSE.....although I must say that the challenges of this latest Blue college were not as arduous as those experienced earlier in RSE's history. And as outrageous as this might sound, truthfully, I would rather not be anywhere else than RSE when I am there..... I have always experienced such wondrous results from what I learn there. And for me the real test of RSE is how I live my life OUTSIDE and in between retreats. Things just keep evolving, my mastery of my reactions becomes stronger, and my life has become so much smoother and happier. Again, THIS IS NOT TO CONVINCE ANYONE TO GO TO THE SCHOOL......I consider decisions of this nature personal, best made by each individual as to where their path lies. I just wanted to let folks know that there are folks in the school who are there NOT because we are brainwashed, worship Ram or JZ, or are not financially responsible.....there are plenty of current students who find RSE a bargain at any price for WHAT THEY CREATE IN THEIR LIVES FROM WHAT THEYVE LEARNED FROM THE SCHOOL. I searched and studied in many many schools, traditions, and venues before RSE, and don't intend that this will be my last exploration. But for now, FOR ME, because of what I bring to the table in terms of my personality and past experiences, I work RSE--and it works for me.

MG, "this is my first post"

You have chosen to ignore the purpose of the EMF forum...
As stated...
"This forum is for support, sharing opinions and experiences for those who have left RSE
and have doubts and concerns about their tenure there. It is NOT a place for proselytizing for RSE, JZK Inc or Ramtha".

But you know this already...

If you would like to speak with me personally... I will be more than willing to do so,
But having said this,
It is highly probable that your post will be removed...
And yes we do have an agenda on the EMF website..

JZ Knight has fooled you
but you just don't know it..

Yet.

David

LARSE@fairpoint.net

MG - Just out of curiosity -- Was there any emotional or physical abuse in your past?

Hi to David and Graced,

Just a quick response to your e-mails---I read the "disclaimer" / extended rules for participating, and in the fourth paragraph reads as follows:

"We allow vigorous free speech debates and dialogues to take place on our website."

So I thought this meant I could respond to the question of what actually happened at Blue College, as long as I respected the choices of all forum participants. I was very careful to take responsibility for my RSE experience being MY experience and the experience of some other current RSE students.

David, the word "proseletyze", according to Webster's dictionary, means "to convert". If you re-read my post, I make it very clear several times that I am NOT out to change anyone's mind or "convert" anyone, and state several times that I am VERY respectful of an individual's choice in attending or not attending RSE or any other spiritual discipline or school.

However, upon re-reading the top of the message page, it does limit the forum to "former" RSE students, and I am not. So I send everyone my sincere apologies, this will be my last post.

To Graced: I have no memory of physical or verbal abuse in this lifetime; perhaps it occurred in some other lifetime, but I have no memory of it if it did!

I send all of you in the forum best wishes on your continued spiritual evolution!
MG

Not that anyone asked me but I would not be in favor of deleting MG's post nor do I support chasing him/her away. There were many, many years when I would have made the exact comments and I only realized something is very wrong at RSE when I started interacting with the staff. MG contributed timely information in a non coersive manner. What is wrong with that?

If s/he doesn't come to this forum and read how will s/he learn about the dark side of RSE? And s/he won't visit if s/he does not feel welcome. I found nothing wrong with the comments.

If this forum consists only of posters who despise RSE what good is that? It's called preaching to the choir.

For example, MG said, "He also taught much new information on the quantum field..."

I would like to ask MG, "What new information?" My guess is that although the information may have been new to MG it is probably not new at all.

This is valuable insight for all concerned.

WannaKnow - I'd be curious what you learned by inter-acting with staff. You may want to start another thread on that.
Thanks MG for responding-and for accepting the sincerity of my question. It's been my perspective, and that of some others who have posted here that a common thread among people who attend Judy's events have had a pattern in their of life of being with controlling people.
I'll be starting another thread re abuse later.
Best wishes. As WannaKnow says - there's a lot of info you may find usefull here.
I suspect that the 3 days blindfolded was not done because of all the conversation here re the unsanitary conditions of 1500 people peeing and pooping anywhere and/or discarding the collection of such in dumpsters. Fascinating how a 23rd dimension ascended Being is persuaded to change its mind.

WannaKnow,

Your comment..
“If this forum consists only of posters who despise RSE what good is that?”

There is no despising going on here.. I can assure you.
If an honest dialogue can be shared with MG then I agree….
This is valuable for everyone………….
But.. so far…
MG arrived here just to let us know how wonderful RSE is for him…
While totally ignoring the many serious issues posted on this forum..
Perhaps MG will demonstrate that he/she.. really has a mind of his own
with an honesty of conscience that will guide his words.
So far this has not been demonstrated except for doublespeak words.

MG..

The meaning of the word proselytize..
Actually is…

“To try to convert somebody to a religious faith or political doctrine”.

David.

I suspect that EMF has had an impact on RSE events.

I believe that a relative easy BC was due to the fact that the secret is now out in the open and thus liability is now an issue.

Now if we could get The Security Exchange Commission to investigate the whole OMEGA Scam.

Graced, I know someone.....a lady that was getting towards 60 years of age......who attended one of those blue college events where participants were blindfolded for extended periods. She could not find a toilet so she urinated in her clothing. I am not certain just how far it was from the end of the event and a washing machine...........

She also could not find her tent. They were supposed to find it blindfolded. Staff gave no assistance so she slept outside on the grass with minimal clothing.

According to my Random House Webster's College Dictionary:

Proselytize: To convert or attempt to convert as a proselyte; recruit.

Proselyte: A person who has changed from one opinion, religious belief, sect, or the like to another; convert.

So the meaning of proselytize is broader than David defined it, because it also includes opinions. According to my dictionary, then, I could proselytize in favor of vegetarianism, for example.

Christel, I had bed 'n breakfast guests who took Depends or similar adult diapers/incontinence products to events so they could urinate while out on the Field. I don't know if this was/is a common practice.

Hi everyone,
I don't post often except when I think maybe my thoughts may be of some value. Maybe this one does, maybe not. Take it for what it is worth to you. In either case I thought I might express some things before I move on. I am responding to what has seemed to be a blatant disreguard and lack of respect for another.
On the fence asked a question about blue college, and a current student ( MG)even after knowing how everyone feels about rse answered with honesty and integrity.I know this person. There was no agenda as David described...
She did not come here to preach, she came to answer the question, honestly from her experience. She was not ignoring any other post as her answer was not about any other post. It is obviously her experience that RSE has benefit to her....so what if JZ is a fraud. So what if there is no Ramtha...Maybe the experience has nothing to do with that.
It seems the only opinions here are welcome as long as they are not pro RSE.
The treatment that MG received seemed of no value.
You claim to be here to help people, but you had an oppurtunity to have real and open conversation with someone who is still in the thick of RSE and you threw her out the ninth story window....
That attitude is no better than the worst you have expressed receiving from RSE.
No need to respond to this post. You have lost me too. I do hope you find a place where all opinions are valid, and all experiences are welcome.
As for me....My life is waiting.

OneHand wrote: " I could proselytize in favor of vegetarianism, for example."

I'm just responding to this to add some information on Ramtha's opinion re: vegetarianism. "He" has said many times, he disagrees with it. He has also mocked vegetarians.

Just interesting to me that he would be so intolerant and disrespectful of someone's choice to be a vegetarian. What's it to him ? (a rhetorical question)

There is Ramtha's way .... and there is Ramtha's way....period.

Otherwise...

As for the Blue College event and the "pro RSE" post, it is, with all due respect, naive (in my opinion). As has been noted, it would be interesting to have the issues addressed on this forum, be addressed by that poster. I also support the view that the poster is trespassing by posting on this forum. When reading the posting guidelines, excerpting one sentence to suit one's needs, without reading it in it's FULL CONTEXT, is just an excuse to post.

As I've posted before, I had "good times" at RSE. It wasn't 100% "bad". This forum isn't about making it 100% bad. It's about support and information for folks who have not had the option before, because dissention and questioning "AUTHORITY" is not allowed in RSE, lest you get yourself in hot water, kicked out, ridiculed in front of the audience, and similar fates. It's about raising the wrongdoings that have gone on there, and finding out that there are others who have had similar experiences, too.

The abuse of authority by the administration, toward PAYING CUSTOMERS is not a rare incident. It is curious that someone would ignore those issues, and still need to post here. Yes, I too, turned the other cheek for years, so I know the mindset. I'm thankful that I have taken my power back, and also have the option of learning and evolving, in a loving, respectful way. I'm not into having abuse be equated with love, and there has been plenty of that going on there.

Wolfman - as for the Omega Scam investigation - why not make those contacts and ask about it ? Has it been done? Sometimes, all it takes for that sort of thing to get started, is the contact.

OneHand,

Quote..
“So the meaning of proselytize is broader than David defined it”…

Not according to the Encarta Dictionary, English North American version…
Proselytize “Transitive and Intransitive verb”
pros•e•ly•tize (past and past participle pros•e•ly•tized, present participle pros•e•ly•tiz•ing, 3rd person present singular pros•e•ly•tiz•es)
Meaning..
To try to convert somebody to a religious faith or political doctrine.

Boring English lesson over..

Chuckle………


JB..
Quote..
( MG)even after knowing how everyone feels about rse answered with honesty and integrity. I know this person. There was no agenda as David described...

What answers you are referring to?

MG offered only statements of approval for what is I truly believe is
a deceptive and dangerous cult…

How far do you think a believer in “Ramtha” would go if he "Ramtha" asked a devoted student to lie to everyone?
This has happened….don't you know?
But do you think those former RSE staff members are going to speak out?
Think again…
And why do they stay silent?

When Judi’s madness finally implodes on itself and the truth of her deceptions is obvious to all,
How will we all look back at our participation in these times..
Will we simply brush it off and say we just didn't know?
Perhaps we will say it had nothing to do with me because.. I behaved with honesty and integrity..
Just like MG?
I absolutely understand the place that MG is coming from..
I was once there myself, but there is one major difference…
MG has the opportunity to explore and question the information now available on this EMF forum..
this was not available during my time in RSE.
I invited MG to call me personally and I will meet with her and share any information if she so wishes..
do I care about her? I truly believe I do,

Most people who attend RSE believe they are learning the highest spiritual ideals, even accepting abusive situations in RSE, many will justify splitting their families apart and moving to Yelm… in the notion that
and they are embarking on a spiritual path...
the end justifies the means = drowning you intuition and conscience.

I have been exploring these issues intensely in the past few years and nothing,
I mean nothing… has shown me that "Ramtha" is nothing more than JZ Knight's creation to enable her to bury her deep childhood traumas by feeding an insatiable appetite for money and power...and fame.
everything about “Ramtha” is malevolent and corruptive in every sense of the word.
RSE is spiritual suicide and the fools gold of enlightenment.
the evidence of what I say is staring you in the face..
JZ Knight's face?

And I do not need to check the Encarta dictionary to understand these facts..


David.

David,
What is with you? MG gave a simple, but correct, definition of the word proselytize, but you felt the need to correct her with a more narrow definition. I offered a broader definition of proselytize straight out of my dictionary--not saying that your definition was wrong, but just to show that your definition was not the only “right” one. You came back again with a more narrow definition from another dictionary. Do you think that made my dictionary’s definition wrong? Are you so hung up on right and wrong that you can’t even acknowledge that there are many legitimate, authoritative dictionaries available offering varying word definitions? There is no way that you can offer only one “right” definition that trumps all the other dictionaries.

I find it interesting that you would even feel the need to do that. What was your motivation? Oh, you stated it, to give me an “English lesson.” Do you have a college degree in communications, as I do? Have you written on a national business magazine, or reported on scientific research for a major medical school, or worked for 20 years as a book editor, as I have? Thanks for the English lesson, but I don’t need it.

What I’m wondering is, why you felt the need to correct first MG, and then me, in the first place? Will you now feel the need to put another psychobabble label on me?

Can we all please put away our dictionaries, get off our high horses, cease all the one-upmanship, and just have some honest talk on this site?

Didn't want to post anymore.. after those statements on this topic - BUT "psychobabble" is sooo goood!!!
Didn't find it in my own dictionary - but sounds quite gooood!!

words..are spoken..gates are open.. so I may leave now!
SMILIES TO ALL:

Hi David,
Would you be kind enough to clarify for me how current students in RSE can learn about RSE's dark side if they don't come here? But if they do they get chased away. They don't know what you know yet you somehow expect them to. At that point it does not look like you are using EMF as a teaching tool but rather as your own little power trip.

It is extremely difficult to figure RSE out. How many years did it take you? Do you want innocent and naive people to learn and understand RSE or not?

It is not realistic to dictate how another person learns. Evolution is unique.

Although I find this current trend here tiring, and wasteful, for the most part, I feel compelled to say - Of course everyone is welcome to read what has been written here. Essential to the intent of this site is to offer those who are currently participating at Judy's place an alternative perspective. If they have honest questions of course they're encouraged to ask them. Asking sincere questions is a world of difference from telling people who have obviously 'been there done that' regarding Judy's events how wonderful those events are. There are many places people can share how satisfied they are with Judy and her events. People are dying because of what Judy is doing - we don't need to hear how wonderful walking around blindfolded all day is.
Isn't there an obvious difference here? God Bless those who are happy at Judy's. God Bless those who are dying because of Judy. We want to help stop the poisoning, not encourage it.

Abuse

"How many dead will it take 'til we know
that too many people have died?
The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind,
the answser is blowing in the wind." Bob Dylan
A few months back there was a posting under the "by your fruits” thread that triggered something in me, and connected a lot of “dots” of my life. The following is therefore a reflection of MY ‘dots’, and is in no way intended to contradict the validity of the poster who said there was no abuse in her childhood.
Unfortunately, both the word “abuse” and “cult” have a diversity of connotations and ‘triggers’ for each person. The following is based on an assumption that every Human Being is inherently equal in Beingness, however that’s defined, and therefore entitled to be treated as such – and therefore, the repeated harm of another Human Being is not ok and the repeated harm of another for personal gain of power fame and wealth is really really NOT OK. Abuse can take a multiplicity of forms. The abuse considered here is about manipulation and emotional and psychological control.
From my perspective - Whether or not we recognize, acknowledge and accept that our experience at Judy’s place or with Judy’s Ramtha was abusive, it was, and continues to be so for who ever participates in her reality. (See an early posting: the cycle of abuse)
I realized that with abuse, as in a cult, the obvious facts of the phenomena are often unobvious to the participant. For instance, even though my first suicide attempt was at age 7 or 8;, and even though 16 yrs later a therapist told me he’d never recognized suicide as a positive statement before; and even though two different social workers suggested we co-author a book about my Mother, master of the double-blind and emotional manipulation; - it took me 50 years to name my upbringing as abusive. Nor did I belong to a cult – didn’t believe in them, didn’t believe in following gurus or masters or teachers or anyone, and certainly was not a group joiner…. It took at least a year after terminating my participation in Judy’s reality, and the sharing of a friend newly exiting who’d been reading about cults, for me to acknowledge that I had in fact been in a cult, following a “Master”, part of a group. Thirteen years later I still get shocked when I hear descriptions of cults - and recognize there is still a part of me in denial that I was in a cult.
I recognize that there is a pattern in my life story of being manipulated and controlled emotionally, psychologically by other people. So there’s no blame here, or victim consciousness. It’s my script to play. Nevertheless, that doesn’t make manipulation and emotional and psychological control acceptable behavior – if we accept a standard of behavior that understands that hurting other people is not ok.
The reason I became involved with this message board is because I was made aware of the deaths of too many people because of their involvement with Judy’s reality. Within the last few weeks we have learned of the non-metaphorical, literal poison Judy’s Ramtha commanded people to swill. Although I have seen the devastation that wine ceremonies have wrought on people I love, until the other day I hadn’t accepted it was literally, not just metaphorically, killing them.
Although it appears that our world culture accepts the standard of behavior: as long as your making money harming life is ok – whether the life of the planet itself, or the inhabitants on it, including Human Beings --- It is not the standard that I accept, and I believe that in the hearts of many People, it is not an acceptable standard.
If you believe, "no pain no gain" and that you have to suffer to learn – please know that there is another way, that works. Please know that you are loved without requirement of specific behavior or beliefs. Please know that psychic powers and phenomena are just more stuff – So what if you can find your card and hit a bulls eye – so what if aliens land in your back yard – so what if you can win the lottery --- It again depends on the standard by which you define your life. If powers and gifts and phenomena are what you want, go for it. Every true teacher of every true Sacred Tradition warn of the lure of such. If your standard is that universal standard of by your fruits ye shall know them, and if you have not love, what have you got afterall….- than please know that there are true paths ways information to a transforming Union with the Sacred. Please know that you don’t have to be blindfolded anymore to know.
I became involved with this message board because my heart was broken open with the overwhelming pain of my brothers and sisters – that it is no longer acceptable to dismiss our response-ability by saying: they chose to be there. It’s their karma. I’m over it all and I don’t need or want to do anything about it. They’re New Age sinners and chosen to follow the devil.
It’s time to open our hearts to ourselves and each other, and confess/recognize/acknowledge the pain and reach out in acknowledgment to each other – Judy’s reality is a reality of abuse – and there is another reality that is loving and healing without abuse.

WannaKnow,

Q.
“Would you be kind enough to clarify for me how current students in RSE can learn about RSE's dark side if they don't come here? But if they do they get chased away.”

There have been current students posting here before.. and they certainly were not chased away, some have quite attending RSE as a direct result of the dialogues we share on and off EMF.
But anybody posting here intentionally or unintentionally proselytizing
“Reach for your dictionaries everyone..” a diatribe of support for RSE.. will be reminded very strongly that they are not welcome here… regardless of how pleasant and open-minded they appears to be. First and foremost this forum is for former members of RSE and their families, friends and loved ones, also to warn the public at large of the activities and history of RSE and its managing director JZ Knight.
Some have voiced their desire for a more open chat room style forum,
EMF is not for this purpose.. even though a little light humor and banter is very welcome.

WannaKnow
Quote.. At that point it does not look like you are using EMF as a teaching tool but rather as your own little power trip.

The “power trip mentality” I totally understand, for seven years I walked around Yelm feeling compassion for the villagers who were lost their “social consciousness”
They did not have the power and wisdom I was learning at RSE, I was a Master of the great work.. One of us would be at Christ one day,
Perhaps even me. Yes I admit.. There is some residue of that power tripping within me and I'm doing my utmost to clean it out.


WannaKnow
Quote..”It is extremely difficult to figure RSE out. How many years did it take you? Do you want innocent and naive people to learn and understand RSE or not?”

I agree it has taken me many years to figure Judi’s place out. Even from what I have understood to date I am often shocked to hear a new account of what goes on behind the facade of RSE.
RSE is a microcosm of a macrocosm of a far greater social spiritual/environmental crisis in our society.
Every day I encounter people who believe in the impeccability of JZ Knight
and the supreme Godliness of “Ramtha” and his supernatural powers.
I do have some understanding and sensitivity in talking and sharing with these "for the most part" very sincere people. But sincerity doesn't cut it when you're up against a Master of deception?

WannaKnow,
Q.
It is not realistic to dictate how another person learns. Evolution is unique.


Nobody is forced to post here, nobody is forced to read anything here,
Nobody has to pay to access this forum, Our guidelines and agenda is upfront
“in my opinion” and as clear as can be.
We are open to suggestions and constructive criticism, I'm sure we will do things better in time, after all it's only been a few months since “we” launched ELM.

WannaKnow..
I hope my scribbles helped answer your concerns somewhat..
I appreciate most of your candid remarks …
They helped me dig a little deeper into my own motivations for being here………

David

Graced..

your post was a healing balm...

"Sincerity doesn't cut it when you are up against a Master of Deception."

Truer words were never spoken. And I agree wholeheartedly with you, David. Thank you for addressing my questions and I accept all of your answers but there is still one point that I just don't get. If EMF is first and foremost for former students and their families what exactly is the point? We can only sit around and talk so much. OK, we have a consensus of opinion that JZ is perpetrating a lie, Ramtha is made up and the alledgedly original teachings all came from other sources. Now what? To the extent that all we do is talk and take no action, we are a long way from healing. Engaging inquisitive current students can be healing for both sides. It gives the current a chance to engage information they otherwise may not have had and it gives the former student a chance to tell their story. I understood Joe Szimhart to say that telling one's story and helping others is the most direct route to healing.

If you wish to restrict EMF to only former students and their families that is your prerogative but I truly don't see the point, hence my question.

"RSE is a microcosm of a macrocosm of a far greater crisis in our society."

Agreed. That is why it is worth it to talk to anyone willing to learn. Apparently RSE is the tip of an iceberg and if I hadn't passed through RSE's gates I would not now see what I do see all around me.

And what are the chances of someone who has never been in a cult "getting it?"

WannaKnow,

I'm not David, but I do want to chime in here...

It's already been discussed, about the primary intent for EMF. I won't rehash that. But here is something else to please consider; we are all volunteers here since this website is not about making money and nobody is being paid to do any of this. We all have families and limited time.

So, also keeping that in mind, one gets selective about prioritizing what can/would/should/will be addressed on such a forum as this.

The main thing that former students (and some current ones) have realized, is that students in RSE can't question authority, or criticize Ramtha/JZ, or even many/most staff, for that matter, without negative repercussions. This has been addressed already (examples), so I won't belabor the point.

Your points are well taken, that posters here can only go so far with conversations taking place with other former students and the like. Yet, your comments are, perhaps, assuming that nothing other than that can be discussed here. That's not totally accurate. It does say on the Msg Board main page, that there can be debates (that certainly allows for much) .... IF .... it is stated in the initial opening thread to be a topic for debate. That way, posters have the choice to read/post or skip it altogether. The caveat, even with a debate, would be that it needs to occur respectfully. Having strong statements about issues is one thing, but devolving into personal attacks isn't necessary, and won't be tolerated.

Also, we have a "Point Counterpoint" webpage, where specific issues can be listed and addressed in a manner where differing viewpoints can be addressed. This would be a good place to have listings for specific things like quotes from audio tapes, videos, and the like.

So, I would say that we DO hear what you're saying, and I know I agree with most of what you're saying. I just wanted to clarify that I do also believe we have EMF set up to allow for more opportunity to share divergent viewpoints.

A number of former students have said on EMF that they also had some good times, good personal experiences at times, too. In that sense, it has been shown that posters have been fair. The major concern, however, is that deception occurs, and in speaking out along those lines, and knowing (the LARSE gathering was one example of the potential), that some students would sabotage this website if they were given the opportunity, we do need to be aware of that. Never underestimate the wolf in sheep's clothing, as they say.

There are also things going on behind the message board scenes, on personal levels, with regard to doing "more", as well. Some would say that it would be inappropriate to post such details. Or, perhaps a better choice of words would be "unwise" to not keep one's cards close to their chest, so to speak.

Wanna...if you have ideas that you want to post about taking action, then please do. You are not alone in your company, unless it is that others may not choose to openly speak about it, that's all.

Sincerely,
Whatchamacallit

mmmmmmmmmmm, wonder if 20/20 would be interested in doing a story on this??? or one of the other shows on tv - all this needs to be exposed to the general public - this really is a serious issue.

wow, who is all reading these posts - this one already has 939 hits - glad to see lots reading and hopefully getting educated to the delusions of ramtha/jz - when i think of it all it makes me sick to the stomach -

As Watcha, I'd like to chime in...
The key words you said, Wanna,are "willing to learn". Remember when you were totally committed to RSE - could anyone or anything change your mind - until something inside you was ready to hear? I've seen no evidence on this message board that people who are, (even though "current"), ready to hear being chased away.
Watcha made a very good point re the LARSE Gathering -- if you haven't seen the video on google - it's worth the time. The Ramsters came to sabotage. And, there were apparently a few "current students" who were ready to hear, and they learned - and they didn't attempt to sabotage the speaker or the process.
Almost everyday I learn something new here. Information such as about the sea water business is extremely significant - how does one rationalize an all knowing enlightened ascended master not knowing he was commanding people to drink poison?
Nor did I realize the overt promotion of Judy's businesses. Nor did I realize the level of verbal abuse by Judy's Ramtha or the revealing of other people's issues - some of which were lies. Perhaps such stories will provide the last drop for someone questioning. I'd love it if every Ramster read this message board. And I know that had this existed 20 years ago, I would have had a counter statement for everything said here - but maybe something would seep into my thinking and ultimately make a difference. At the same time, even I as a convinced Ramster wouldn't have attempted to change the minds of those here.
Years ago I asked a friend why she supported Jeff Knight. She responded with a 45 minute audio tape of explanation. In my mind I countered everything she said -- Except when I went to my next event I took with me her emphasis on how much fear Ramtha promoted. So I observed from a slightly different perspective - and sure enough I saw that she was correct. That wasn't what woke me up altogether, but it was a step.
How about a thread re: what was the last drop/the last straw for folks - what woke them up.

Whatchamacallit. (interesting name)

"Wolf in sheeps clothing". hmmmmmm. Interesting also.

You know I was kicked out of the RSE chatroom years ago for posting the truth. Then I was put on hiatus from RSE for one year for posting my truth.
I've been edited out of that "unremarkable" website known as The Masters Connection.

I can be too much for some people I know......but I don't care. And I know many don't follow what I say.
Thats OK too.

I deeply appreciate EMF because I am an ex student, who has his own unique understanding of what was experienced at RSE and this seems the only avenue left for me to express myself.