It gets said here by the founders of this Forum that JZ is a fraud.
I would like to hear the definition of that, and a general discussion on what exactly IS "RAMTHA".
Does fraud mean she has been acting all these years, that she has been "scriptwriting" the dialogues since the "as it were indeed .." days.
and that all the information in all the years of teachings have been Consciously Made Up in her spare time, and that the phoney part of the Fraud is in her presenting herself as Ramtha,with this "made up" history, and not as herself?
Then I also want to discuss the Alien issue and if the usual posters in this forum believe or think that this planet is inhabited by other terrestrial life forms, or not, such as the greys, reptilians, etc..and if people think the abduction/UFO contact thing is for real or not.
Im just curious as to how dimensional... David, And the others are thinking about general lifeforms here on earth. Is this human body all we are, etc...
This question might relate to why people have been so messed up by following ramtha/jz too much....did you all think he was an alien and that he could be trusted to be Good?
I admit I still have a hard time imagining how JZ could "act" the part all these years.
Yet if indeed his Verbage has been "sent" to her brain and body thru some elaborate mind control means, do people think it was all humanbased, or that any "alien" folks are/were involved?
Just curious...

Good idea SAS,

Lets have it from the horses mouth, or, should I say Zebra.

This is the first line to her autobiography: J z Knight, A State of Mind, my story
the unnumbered page before chapter 1

"Ramtha. Glittering light of an unearthly presence, illuminating, pulsating, a vision of perhaps the GRANDIOUSE, CREATIVE MIND.[emphasis mine] ...."

Fraud is a legal term: "the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her money. A party who has lost something due to fraud is entitled to file a lawsuit for damages against the party acting fraudulently."
Fraud in the inducement: "the use of deceit or trickery to cause someone to act to their disadvantage. Misleading the other party concerning the facts upon which they will base their decision."

RSE teaches a method of healing called Blue Body. A look at the bottom of the www.ramtha.com homepage shows that JZK,Inc has made "Blue Body" a registered trademark meaning that it is original material belonging to JZK,Inc.

The body which calls itself Ramtha introduced the Blue Body teaching in 1993 and there was an event September 6-13, 1993 called, "The Blue Assay of Ramtha." At that event, "Ramtha" taught that any student could heal their body of ANY AILMENT, physical or mental by creating in their mind a body made of "shimmering and glistening blue webs." The concept of "shimmering and glistening blue webs" can be found in a book written by Vera Stanley Alder titled, "From the Mundane to the Magnificent." This book was published by Rider in 1979, 14 years before it was presented as original material at RSE.

Plagiarism: taking the writings or literary concepts (a plot, characters, words) of another and selling or publishing them as one's own product. The actual author can bring a lawsuit for appropriation of work against the plagiarist and recover the profits. (This would be a civil suit.)

There are 2 kinds of legal actions, criminal and civil. Normally plagiarism is considered civil and not criminal however it can be used as the basis of a fraud charge (meaning criminal) if prior creation is proven.

This is one example of fraud at RSE.

At various events the body which calls itself "Ramtha" stated that the RSE staff does not receive health insurance benefits as part of their compensation because they all have Blue Bodies and can heal themselves. I recall "Ramtha" saying it would be hypocritical if JZK,Inc provided its employees with health insurance (which is a standard business practice in the US.) Here is a question - does JZ have health insurance? She has had a history of illnesses which she freely talks about yet I have never heard her say that she uses her Blue Body to heal herself.

Re: Legal
Thanks for the background on the original Blue teachings. This is the type of information we really need to know, as X-Ramsters it clears up alot, and for potential Ramsters it lays out the "Real Deal" they would be buying into.

Legal Beagle...

your hand is most welcome here
to help us out of the RSE ditch...

Thank you.

David

SAS - I just want to clarify one point. Not ALL of the founders of this website/forum have said they believe JZ is a fraud. Others have said that their opinion is, she is one.

Legal Beagle has also made some EXCELLENT posts with regard to the fraud issue, per se.

I can also vouch for what Legal Beagle has stated with regard to the Blue Body teachings from first hand experience. It's true as posted from my recollection, also.

The FACT that students were told all they had to do was focus on their Blue Body to be healed of ANY AILMENT does not hold up in light of the fact that students of sincere faith and diligence have done that discipline to live with radiant health and vitality and they have suffered disease and some have died. Many have aged and died. They applied the technique and were later blamed for not focusing well enough, not focusing beyond their doubt, or something that does not address the teacher's failed teaching, but only blames the student.

There are people who have NO religious affiliation at all, who have had spontaneous healings. I would imagine that they have human doubt as do the rest of us. Then, at other times, students were told that if they had doubt, it was alright as long as they had the faith of a mustard seed.

Is 2+2=4 or not ? It's certainly cause for wondering. Or today, does 2+2=5 ?

Thanks LB
I didnt even think of that particular definition.
I guess maybe that still leaves open the possibility that,even according to the people who started this forum, the "Ramtha" guy, IS someone that uses JZ s body as a channel, and that the fraud aspect comes from how JZ uses the information in her school.
Could that be?

Thanks for your posts Legal Beagle.

RSE continues to promote their "education" all over the world. The number of events available worldwide is escalating.

There is no evidence that anyone has attained the fourth seal since the operation of RSE since 1988 and since the early teachings of Ramtha which began in about 1977.

(A lot of the purchasable clothes in the Quantum Cafe had 77 at Assay 6 in 2005 on them. The reason was that JZK Inc. was founded in that year, as I understand it. Unbelievably students of the ancient mysteries are actually purchasing clothes promoting a corporation and paying quite a hefty price for it.)

Regardless if Ramtha is real or not, it could be concluded that CONTINUING to offer the education worldwide in the absence of proof it works could be reasonably considered as INTENT TO DEFRAUD rather than just a misguided concept of enthusiasm.

The evidence against Ramtha existing is far greater than the evidence for it. Perhaps he would care to show up to prove his credentials?

SAS,

I think you've made a good point. Setting aside the issue of whether Ramtha "is or isn't", some people do believe that what JZ does with the school is what could be questioned as fraudulent. After all, it is HER BUSINESS (corporation), even though it bears Ramtha's name.

Yes, fraud is a legal term. In a civil case, the plaintiff must prove his/her case by "a preponderance of the evidence". In a criminal case, it's "beyond a reasonable doubt", which is a higher standard than needed to prove a civil case.

Re: "Proof that anyone has reached 4th seal...or what ever else the school claims can be done...
some of those experiences are so subjective, that youll have to take someones Word, as Proof.
Like with the alien thing..[contact]..
Or Like..."Hey, I just saw a red car drive by my window!!!"
Do you believe me?
Yes? Because you know all about red cars, yourself, and have no trouble "believing" in thier existence...
So, I see the Corruption of RSE, based in mostly JZs actions, not as much in the principles being "taught."
Maybe the Ramtha story is BS, but then what about the Past Life Memory I have, for example, that I cant prove to you, but I can feel, was real to me?
I had plenty of phenomenon occur in my life during all that Focussing, and breathing, but I dont have to prove it, or justify it to anyone.
I credit the Environment of the School for propelling me into certain experiences,
but ironically, theres no telling "what if" I never went there...would I have had similar "magic" happen in my life or not, somewhere else and in some other way?
I do wonder why JZ has over-Capitalized, on the "ancient wisdom", and STOLEN stuff, and all other things mentioned here, and I sure wonder why "Ramtha" is acting like All That, Im glad I missed...!
But I cant fault the whole school itself for being fraudulent, because of so much cool stuff that occured in my life as a result of applying......stuff
..but I am an X student and I only spent 3 years there, in the early 90s...before astro turf, before wine, before alot of wierd ness I hear about now.
Also I should mention, the WAY I interpret the "teachings" is what I had to admit took me for good rides and bad rides. I listen to stuff NOW, and think "God, how could I have taken this the way I did!"
Thats why I think its healthy to step out of the arena, more often than not, and take what you hear or think you Learn, out in the world, and be that Light, the way you Want, and get an "objective perspective" of what the school is about.

Legal Beagle,

I saw a video fo JZ talking about multiple health conditions she had. She claimed to have healed a serious lung condition (I think it was emphysema....I cannot remember.....but it was a condition where she would need to haul an oxygen tank around with her and she stated that she did not like the idea of Blue Body or her children having to take care of her.)

She stated she healed it with the invention of the Legacy discipline which she apparently thought of whilst out on a trip in the wilderness.

She stated she had chronic fatigue. If she went down the stairs in her home she had to assess if she could get up them again. She had numerous digestive/food intolerances and said she had a rash on one side of her face that she covered with make up.

She also stated in the video that Ramtha had healed her three times and she wanted to be able to do it herself.

You sound as if you havknowledge of the law. Are you in that occupation?

re: Beagles Post...

Fraud is a legal term: "the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her money. A party who has lost something due to fraud is entitled to file a lawsuit for damages against the party acting fraudulently."
Fraud in the inducement: "the use of deceit or trickery to cause someone to act to their disadvantage. Misleading the other party concerning the facts upon which they will base their decision."

Beagle, A comment on this regarding RSE. Many of those involved and even some no longer involved, nor in favour of the organization, do not conclude it is possible that they can be tricked, or deceived by ANYONE to act to their disadvantage.

In the name of personal empowerment they hold the viewpoint that they are responsible for ALL of their choices and this lets any trickster, or deceiver off the hook. It is a disease of the new spirituality. They will just about fight you to the death to hold on to that viewpoint.

I have personally never heard JZ state that she has used her blue body to heal herself. I have heard at some events that JZ has her card on the field and apparently found it but I have never observed her on the field.

seesallsides...

You asked..."I also want to discuss the Alien issue"

Here is are some examples from the early “Teachings” regarding Aliens, Reptilians, The One World Order conspiracy..
During that era “Ramtha” taught that.. Do not use the banking system.. Convert our cash to Gold coins and get rid of credit cards.
The world banking system was about to crash...&
“The Twelve Days of Light” was imminent and the other bad news was...Ramtha's army was battling Jehovah’s flesh eating reptilian army in space who were attempting to invade earth to enslave and eat us...
I kid you not.

Some examples of this madness...

The One World Government.
You, and everyone on Earth, will then become slaves of the One World Government. The invasion will be complete.
You must be ready and you must NOT use the debit card. It is, "the Mark of the Beast". Instead, you and your loved ones must have shelter, food, and water enough to last you for two years. You must be sovereign individuals and able to fend for your selves. Finally, you must be able to protect your selves and your property from those who would take your possessions, kill you, or enslave you.

Raiders from above.

“Ramtha”… "So, what have they done to some of you? They are the raiders from above. And yes, they have created specimens like in a laboratory. They have control over you because their power of thought is magnanimous. They can pick up matter and assimilate it. They can hypnotize you in a moment, distort your time, put you to sleep and everything in the surrounding area with a thought. That's how powerful they are. They have been doing interbreeding with you for a very long time. They have kidnapped the human species, endeavored to take them to their place, to breed them. Yes, breed them

So now, they have come for you here. And, they select you on merit of genetic ability to be emotional, to be warm, to be loving. If you are an emotional person, you have been selected. They select you on physical endurance, your emotional ability. When you love, you are numbered. When you feel, you are numbered.

"You are copulated with. You share your seed with your brothers. It is without love. It is without passion. It is without gentle emotion. It is mere copulation. It is the power to create. Your seed is extrapolated from you. It is genetically seeded with their own. And, the child is raised in their environment. So, your seeds are reseeded.


There are women in this very audience who have been kidnapped, who have been copulated with, and whose child has been taken. You have children in another world. But, those children belong to that world. They are reseeding the human emotion. They like things and they don't like things. Those great luminance eyes of theirs.

So, some of you have children in the stars that have great luminous blue eyes or great black ones. Yes, they have small muscle tone. But, they are still frail. But, when they are bred again and give forth their children, that line will begin to evolve. And, that's the reason for it."


"Those who have done all of the raiding from above have learned something about a mother missing a child, a son being longed for by his father, a seed, part of me is gone somewhere else. And, part of the learning of these people is to learn about that emotional attachment and will. and, that is their learning. Now, the numbers are very great that have gone on here."

When their ship comes after you, you won't remember it. And, if your nose bleeds a lot, it's because they got you. They have a connection with you and will for the rest of your life."

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

seesallsides...
I hope this posting gives you a perspective of the early teachings….
and the foreshadow of JZ Knight’s decline into fear and paranoia to control her followers….

I was building underground bunkers during that time…
And suspiciously looking at the stars…. Especially those colored ones…?

Dark chuckle..

David

Laughing out loud.....

Oh, it's so true !!! I was there to hear all this stuff. I rebelled against the UG's, though. I insisted I did not need that. I did buy the food, though, because my fear that my kids wouldn't eat, kicked in.

SAS...every word David said is true.

This is so embarrassing.

Ramtha also claimed to be on the ship that blasted Sodom & Gomorrah with one laser blast of the ship. Later, he also said that it was Jehovah's ship that did that. Hmmmm....the evil Jehovah, he said ? HIS ship and Ramtha was on it ??? Add that up. There was a letter that circulated widely ...early to mid 90's, that was from students (a lot of them) who left the school, convinced Ramtha was from the dark side of the force.

This is right up there with major turning points in the school, SUCH AS THE TEACHING ON THE LIGHT BEINGS AND NOT GOING TO THE LIGHT when you die.

Remember that ? That's another thread. I haven't time to start it now, but later I will if someone else hasn't already.

Whatcha

RE: Christle
In your above post,you said... "In the name of personal empowerment they hold the viewpoint that they are responsible for ALL of their choices and this lets any trickster, or deceiver off the hook. It is a disease of the new spirituality. They will just about fight you to the death to hold on to that viewpoint."

I personaly dont feel that it's a die-ease to come to a place inside yourself where you can see that if you have an encounter, experience, etc. it IS because some aspect of your Self "choose" that experience. Actually , for me, it works the other way, it brings ease.

David Hey THANKS! for that lovely excerpt of Ram's work. Sure makes ME feel all warm and FUZZY!! Yes, I can imagine myself (whilest listening to a cd of the above) DIGGING that hole faster and deeper, and faster and deeper...
Its rather early, but anyone care to join me in a glass of red...

Whatcha... You are one brave lady to NOT construct a UG in the face of teachings such as these.If I rememebr correctly I was on that ship and that's NOT quite the way I saw it... You were there too, weren't you? I am sure I saw you there...

I mentioned in another thread, the "thread" of truth in every teaching... the one in RSE gets thinner and thinner all the time...

P.S.Are there any diciplines using tin-foil hats?? I like tin-foil hats....

Dancethe wind..
"P.S.Are there any diciplines using tin-foil hats?? I like tin-foil hats"....

Copper hats were being sold at RSE.. They were made from copper impregnated cloth called Azzureen “spelling?” ...Copper lined Capes were also available..
To stop in intruding rays of the little grays..

Oh I miss those days when I didn’t have to think for myself. It… was so liberating..?

Chuckle..

David

Whatca, would you share facts re: Light Beings, what does Ram/JZ say about them, just the facts please Joe Friday, Dragnet

Facts???
Did someone mention facts??
(sorry gang Im still laughing about the hats...)

David. Question.
You used to build UG's?
Maybe you built mine. Ha! Ha !
Do you think any of the UG's that you built collasped?

With regards to Ramtha's comments about the One World Government and the Chip and the Grey Men (not the aliens) and the control of the populace and such, I must say that of late the news of all this seems quite real.
If one were to research the LEO WANTA story one would see CHANGE on the horizon. The story may or may not be true in its entirety, since the greatest truth and strength about the power of mind control lies in the promotion of 1/2 Truths, but the state of how we think about money has been changing for years now and one can see the direction where it is heading. In fact it hasn't been called money since the 1970's. Finacial transisions are in CURRENCY. A big diffenence.

I like paying attention to all around me.

David. Do you mind me asking what you do to make ends meet?

I myself are a caregiver.

If you want the complete text on the "last dance of the tyrants and gray men - read early Taylor Caldwell novels - from the 30's and 40's -- describes our world today EXACTly, and the causes. I'm still in search of the specific Caldwell in which I read the phrase 'gray men'.

Whatcha... You are one brave lady to NOT construct a UG in the face of teachings such as these.

........... Dance, I did take some heat from fellow students when I nearly laughed in their faces over it. Not my reality to need to live in a hole in the ground.

If I rememebr correctly I was on that ship and that's NOT quite the way I saw it... You were there too, weren't you? I am sure I saw you there...

.............. hahahaha...sure, you saw me there. We were probably eating chocolate sundaes. Or at least, I was. That replicator, you know. Don't even have to wash dishes when you're done.


P.S.Are there any diciplines using tin-foil hats?? I like tin-foil hats....

...............ALMOST ! Copper. If you use copper, it will ward off cooties. Students did wear copper lined hats, etc. One thing is for sure - there is always a fad of the month out there. Vitamins, Coral Calcium, etc., etc. Tell me WHY, please, a GOD has to ingest these things if they are all MINDful beings?

Do I detect yet another contradiction in theory vs. teaching vs. practice ? Ayep, me thinks me does.

David writes:
"...Copper lined Capes were also available..
To stop in intruding rays of the little grays..

Oh I miss those days when I didn’t have to think for myself. It…"

Whatcha.....laughing her xxx off !!!!!!!!!!!

It's all true !!!

Lightbulb,

I will share my experiences with the lightbeings as best I can recall it, yes.

The Reader's Digest version is that students were scared out of their wits for some time when there was a hush hush teaching about what happens when we croak. We were to avoid going to the light, because there are beings there that will eat our emotional bodies, and we'll be stripped of our memory.

Talk about feeling like you're going to lose your identity, like getting cosmic amnesia.

There of course, are other sources that address what happens to humans upon death. Later RSE teachings contradicted the light beings teaching, as well as other sources, too, that address death. (I mean non-RSE teachings) It's really nothing new.

Lightbulb, why do you ask ? Just curious.

Copper lined cape,and Cooper pyramid's---I got to see a cooper pipe pyramid that had a large spear in the middle of the pyramid, with 2 small pipes entering the spear. This pyramid was attached to the ceiling, of a small building, and was able to be lowered with a pully. I was told that they meditate under the pyramid, and talk to aliens. Curious me, asked, what have the aliens told you ----Oh...That trees and plants don't like metal, and would rather to ripped off, then be pruned with pruners. I will use my garden tools, and thank the plant or vegetable before i touch it.

Seesallsides,
Yes, you understood that correctly. Here is another book published in 1954 which contains material "Ramtha" presented as original.

Kathopanisad In Pictures by P.S. Mehra

Former RSE students will recognize the 7 seals, blue bodies, the disciplines of C&E and focus.

The Blue Body is in many of the Hindu writings (drawings). Ramtha has taught about Shiva the Destroyer, with his "spin" on its meaning, of course. Yet that basic concept (blue body) is far from being a new one.

You may want to check out the Seattle Metaphysical Library to see just how vast the teachings are, too. These "teachings" are not new since RSE's inception.

Not that I am promoting Hinduism. The point is that the use of a blue body predated RSE.

http://www.seattlemetaphysicallibrary.org/CatHTML/Category%2033.html

Does a spirit have a legal existence? Can a spirit be held responsible for its behavior? In an interesting case, an author who was sued for damages claimed that the book she had published was written by God and therefore she could not be held responsible for the content. She claimed that the words had simply come through her.The court ruled that God or any other spirit is not a legal entity and therefore cannot be sued. The body in this world is the responsible party.

To David and Whatya:

You laugh about Ramthas Alien dialogue...
Guess what? The first time i heard that tape, is the first time I heard any source EXPLAIN what had been happening in my life..this was in the late 80s.
[I thought at first that it was human psycho/ birth trauna or similar...stuff too.]
...I had already been having so many phenominal things going on, as was my partner..
...but suffice it to say..
and Im leaving out the most crucial details that might make this a "believable story
...along with Many Other sources and Thousands of other people, this scenario Ramtha describes has been and is still "going on"..and darn!
but theres just no way to prove it to you!
Ya gotta be there I guess!
Or you have to be able to Feel...truth in another about something you are not experiencing directly yourself..
And if I find out later we are all delusional idiots, I will humbly acknowledge that to you......
{ I know Im going to get STUFF, or maybe just
NOTHING AT ALL, in response to this post...but either way, I got passion driving me to type it..]

There are many numerous authors, professionals, and others who will testify that this Alien agenda is occurring, and Ramthas definition that David so wisely and kindly included ver-batum, in this thread, explains it to a tee.
Time will tell
Truth.
And like nowadays, one persons truth, is yet anothers comic relief!!!
Again, theres not much I can do when a brother or sister has allignment with me on one issue but opposing on another....and I dont even want to spend the energy trying to type my case explaining my position.
I started this thread to see what Id hear, while of course having my own answers in limbo...
but now even I await the type of validation that maybe only a bowling ball on the head will avail.
But Pleeeze, do not be so narrow minded as to credit Ramtha with being the only laughable one to make up this rubbish about the Alien thing.......the breeding Program especially...
I guess it IS a good thing its not an obvious, proveable activity, because what a shock that would cause..and I agree with many other Experiencers....Mankind is not really ready for it..
In this dimension, everything I just said means nothing at all....
Time will tell

PS.

Another Topic response to Legal..

At my first C&E Event, in 1990, I remember Ramtha told the audience that HE...got some of his ideas/teachings..
and I dont remember VerBatum how he said it..
...from US..[Humans...PEOPLE!]
He said it straight out...the way I heard/interpreted it was...
that he was making US his equal...that he was CREDITING Humanity..its Books..its wisdom..our Intellegance...and then "using" what we have to offer, Not in Secret, but yes, in the schooling we were then paying for...
I didnt hear that as something corrupt JZ was doing to us.
So maybe that means JZ said it..whatever...!

It actually had the effect of relaxing me into accepting the Format of the following disciplines.
Ramtha acknowledging that he got some stuff From US.
It made me feel we were wise and important as we were, actually...us little humans...
I dont mean to sound Pro RSE.
But all this accusation that JZ was stealing stuff from previously published and known material, and making it out to be original Ramtha stuff..when at that event he told us about it...
and maybe someone else remembers this....

I just had to mention this incident because I thought at the time that it was awfully fair for "Him" to acknowledge it as such...Our Ideas
I didnt see any problem with that..
Like whatever works is OK.
.we are Always borrowing designs and then rearrangin
g them to Suit who ever wants to wear them...Its not exactly "stealing", just because you dont include the bibliography at the end of every sentence you pontificate...

[OH Boy, an I in for it Now??!!!]

Hi SAS,

At the bottom of the Ramtha home page are these words:
Ramtha®, Ramtha Dialogues®, C&E®, Consciousness & EnergySM,
FieldworkSM, The Tank®, Blue Body®,
Twilight®, Torsion ProcessSM, Neighborhood WalkSM, Create Your DaySM,
The GridSM, and Become a Remarkable LifeTM
are trademarks and service marks of JZ Knight and are used with permission.

Do you think that JZ should act as though she legally "owns" the term Blue Body, when, as others have noted in this thread, this is a term and concept that has been around way before JZ started using it, and has appeared in books that predated the Ramtha teachings?

How about "Create Your Day?" Does anyone seriously believe that JZ originated the idea of going within the first thing in the morning and inwardly creating one's day? (I searched the Amazon.com book section and found several recent books with the phrase "create your day" prominent in their titles. I guess they didn't get the word that JZ owns this phrase.) How about the term "twilight?"

Has anyone reading on this site ever asked an attorney who specializes in this area of law whether they believe that JZ would win if she sued someone for using these terms? Oh, JZ often threatens to sue people, but that doesn't mean she would win.

this extract was taken from the Rick Ross website.


One of the most prominent is a Judy Z. Knight, who says she "channels" a 35,000-year-old god-warrior named Ramtha. Yet Knight has gone to court to prohibit others from "channelling" Ramtha, winning on the grounds that the supposed master teacher was actually her creation.

Link: http://www.rickross.com/reference/ramtha/ramtha13.html

Seesall -- ideas are ideas and available to everyone. Word for word for word copying of someone else's writing without acknowledging the source is called plaigerism. In my 20 some years of education plaigerism was an automatic F.
Judy'sRamtha has also claimed to be the inspiration for written material taught. There are the obvious books used - sold in the RSE bookstore(s), and there are the not sold book sources - usually of foreign press or out of print or relatively obscure books.
Judy'sRamtha has claimed (advanced weekend '89) that 'his daughter' didn't memorize anything - and proceeds to present material from an out of print book - word for word for word.
Alien abductions and making babies is not original with Judy'sRamtha. The only difference is that authority was given to Judy'sRamtha by attendees and therefore considered true without question.

SAS,

I have not said what my viewpoint is on the overall issue of aliens.

I addressed the question posed about aliens as it related to the RSE teachings. I didn't elaborate on where other sources are that address the alien agenda. I know the other sources exist. The question was about RSE/aliens.

Let's assume that aliens do exist. Even given that, why would Ramtha come out onto the stage and intentionally say things with no background presented, telling people they could be eaten by aliens the way we'd eat a salad ?

So many people were either upset or thought it pure folly in some way or other, that it was even in the area newspapers. They had a field day with it.

I'm not giving an opinion about it, I'm answering the question. That's what happened.

As for the copyright/fraud/etc issues, others have responded to you, so I won't be repetitive other than to say I have also heard what others here have posted. I, too, was at the Beginning Events in 1990 and I have the tapes, too. Yes, at times, Ramtha has said he uses our material, when he is talking about some topic. He did not say he does it across the board. But as has been mentioned, he has also said that the channel does not know the things "HE" is telling us, and a number of students have heard verbatim repeating from authored books, never with credit given to the source. Is that okay ? I'm not a lawyer, I can't say. I sure have my doubts about it, though. It's also curious to say the least, that JZ would think that it was alright for her or him to do, and then go ahead and fiercely protect her/his work with so many trademarks, servicemarks, copyright protections, yes?

I sincerely say to you, that I'm glad that you posted what you did, even though I don't agree. I think that's a good sign that we really can speak to one another respectfully when we do and don't agree.

As for a broader definition of "fraud", or whether Ramtha "is" or "isn't", that would be a good thread in and of itself. There are a lot of viewpoints about that !

hOW DO YOU CREATE SOMEONE THAT LIVED 35 THOUSAND YEARS AGO? Meaning to channel Ramtha, lets say I or someone else wanted to channel Ramtha, we could give this spirit a nickname, and never worry about legal issues. Names are just labels, intent re; ones agenda is of most importance. Any and all spirits with pure intent re: humanity, could care less what name you use when referring to them, this is what I BELIEVE.

Over the years Ramtha has made a practice of contradicting previous information. Confusion is one of the techniques of mind control.

Wolfman..

I apologize for the delay in my reply to your questions..

“Do you think any of the UG's that you built collapsed?”


I expect many of them have,
I remember those good old days trying to hide in the woods with an excavator…
One UG incident happened when a 1500 gallon water tank drained into a UG I constructed, unfortunately the owners had left a faucet trickling for a year; it filled their $25.000.00 UG with several feet of water that couldn't drain because I made the structure so watertight… the water rotted out the floors and lower walls. Another incident happened while I was wrapping copper foil around a structure when I looked up to my surprise and horror... a county official with a camera and a clipboard was staring down at me, what's going on here then? he politely asked.. My mind was racing at the speed of light and I told him I was building an underground music studio, so what's all this copper for he asked? Oh that's just for keeping out electrical interference radio waves etc because my recording equipment is ultra sensitive. He kinda scratched his head and said he understood.
It turned out he was from the local land assessor's office and they had spotted our construction from an aerial photograph. I remember another incident where a woman had spent a year digging by hand a hole that was 8 feet deep by 10 feet wide, "Ramtha" had given a teaching to dig a UG by hand if necessary" but to her horror it filled up with water during the winter, I came to her rescue with a backhoe and completed the digging in 15 minutes.
I even gave a few classes at the Masters Center on how to DIY your own underground bunker I seriously believed all hell was about to break loose.

so you ask how do I make ends meet now?

I run a small audiovisual studio.. I compose and produce my own music CDs
My carpentry skills can still put food on the table if necessary.

Wolfman..
if any of my UG’s are still standing.. Which is highly unlikely..unless I build yours..
They stand as evidence of my carpentry skills and a testament to my insanity..

Dark chuckle..


David.

P.S.
for those that do understand “UG” is the acronym for Under-Ground….

P.P.S
seesallsides
I have ventured a little off topic here from your thread.
What is the Meaning of "Fraud"? and what about Aliens??

I will also post my thoughts on this subject soon..

David

David

Got a chuckle out of your "County Official" incounter.
When it happen to me I game up with, "Its a rainwater storage system for my future apple orchard".

I was once in audience where Ram told the story that JZ had built two UG's for the price of 75k and both of them failed and collasped.
"L.E's." UG caught fire I think I read.

Maybe Judy doesn't need a UG and will be picked up by military personel and shuttled off to the underground city beneath Tacoma.