Enlighten Me Free


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I mentioned that my old cult guru Elizabeth C Prophet developed dementia and the 30+ masters of her cult stumbled to silence...except through several "heretic" channelers that broke from Prophet. On another thread coco said that Prophet did not "resonate" with her. What does that mean? Is it a lazy way to choose something?

Now I can understand that anyone attracted to the barroom rituals and language of a JZ/Ramtha might regard E C Prophet in her heyday as the ultimate New Age Church Lady, but I'm curious about this word "resonates" and how that functions to either attract us into or repel us from a group or guru or teaching.

In the sixties we used to feel a "vibe" or vibration.

Seems to me that to rely on resonance or a vibe might excuse one from thoughtful examination. My examination and rejection in 1980 of Prophet's cult continued through the following years. The bigger picture I came to see helped me to immediately place Ramtha in context when I first encountered it in 1984. It was no longer a matter of "resonating" or not. I saw and could explain historically and psychologically what was happening with JZ---she is not unique---and dozens of other channelers I personally checked out among the thousands out there.

Relying inappropriately on resonance or intuiton or some "higher self" is exactly what I found most harmful cult leaders want devotees to do. To think about it or do research is considered "doubt".
There's an old Hungarian proverb I 'resonate' with that translates as:
The believer is happy; the doubter is wise.


Re: resonates?

I dont feel its a "lazy" way to choose something. I feel its a way, a path, yes like the 60's "vibration" words are so unappropriate to describe the inner process we each choose and use. There's a PULL for everyone, one way or another, sometimes conflicting pulls or resonances occur. Each being has to learn it for themselves as to what that means and how or when to "follow" it, this guidance.
We are all on this journey!
Although I GREATLY apprieciate your input, I personally don't see all groups and/or channelled works thru the lens of cult/not cult, I dont see it that way because my experience is not your experience. I am not here to learn/teach exactly the same thing you are.
I wouldn't (by ANY means) suggest that I am lazy because I choose based upon my internal "resonance" with a particular idea, path, teaching, route, etc. which way I will go. I do have a great, deep and abiding conviction that I am guided, blessed, and assisted in every decsion, by my highest aspects (my God).
For you, thoughtful examination has provided you with a point of reference that "resonates" well with you AND is profoundly assisting others in learning to navigate thru the labyrinth of (seeming) "options" available. Thank you for the trust you exhibit in your own journey and your conclusions.
Many of us have not come to such definitive conclusions and are still navigating these waters.
I personally have found that there is NO "inappropriate" (ness) in relying on what I feel is my Higher self, EVER.
For wherever I find my self is exactly wher I need to be, how could it be otherwise? Of course there are those "cult leaders" and many "leaders" PERIOD who know the ins and outs and all sorts of "shuck & jive" rountines... there always has been these and probably will always be... who better than them to teach us, each in our own way, to trust ourSelves?
I left RSE because although there was alot of Ideas I resonated with, there were more demonstrations I surely did NOT, and most of the ideas I resonated with I was already well familair with from my own journey with my Higher Self, which I am (fortunately and consciously) still on!
My sense is that when we do not "resonate" with something and we dont acknowledge that little "red flag" in our field of vision, then we start ourselves on the path of following someone else's idea of what's "right" for us, and the farther down that path we go... that longer our journey home.
Thank you Joe, for contributing to all our perspectives, from the wealth of your own.

Re: resonates?

My favorite line from RSE was when Ram spoke about Judi taking Prozac and his EXACT words were;

"Do I want you to take Prozac? Yes. Do I want you not to take Prozac? Yes."

It don't get anymore topsy-turvy than that!

I never took Prozac. Good thing too. It can push some people right over the edge I hear.

I wonder how many did take it and ended off the cliff.

Re: resonates?

Wolfman - and I hope Coco reads this - in answer to how many went off the edge? - too many. that's why we're here. It's that simple. It's not about opinions and rhetoric, right or wrong good or bad. Too many human beings have died, are in pain, are dying - mentally physically spiritually emotionally. Period. Victor Frankl found the meaning of life in a Nazi concentration camp...and didn't find it necessary to promote Nazism, concentration camps or the need of every human being to be stripped naked of everything.

Joe - thank you re resonance. It was initially a jolt to read -- and I remember you suggested the same concept at the LARSE Gathering. It's another 'notch' that many are not ready or capable of hearing -- And it is profound. As I understand what you're saying - it's not so much about not trusting our "Higher Self" or whatever we call our deepest knowingness --- it's that the 'resonance' can be what in pre new age days was called 'a red herring'. It's the interpretation, the framework, the lens, the hearing aid through which we perceive the resonance that makes the difference. On a very personal level - it took me a lifetime of broken hearts to recognize that the intense connection/ resonance I felt with an individual didn't mean we were to be lovers,,,,, and I forever frustrated because they didn't 'get' that... Rather, it means there is an intense connection. Further research, so to speak, showed me that I can allow the connection without an imposition of needs; that love flows in a 'space' beyond our conscious awareness. Or - in my college days I had the opportunity to take acid with my boyfriend - I resonated with him and the alure of lsd -- And I read alot about it and realized that I wasn't ready for it yet -- ---
The question is - it seems that sometimes I can be aware of the red herrings -- and, as with Ramtha, I wasn't. Why.

Re: resonates?

Thanks for responses. For dance this is a hot button, wolfman coolly accepts what I'm trying to convey, and grace appreciates the distinction as I stated it.

I (we) make decisions on vibes, resonance, all day long because I do not have time to think through every event. That's appropriate with familiar events and territory. But in matters of "investment" of my soul or life-path, I want more information and sensitive consideration through time.
Here's an example:
An amateur might walk into a gallery and "resonate" with an attractive painting and buy it noting only that the artist signed it, is famous, and is from China. An expert might see the same painting, not resonate with it because she sees immediately that it is an attractive fake imitating the famous artist from China. The expert did the homework ahead of time, thus knows a lie when she sees one. The signs are all over it but only a trained eye will catch the signs. The amateur collector relies on uninformed wits. When the amateur tries to resell the piece, he will be embarrassed or might even be taken to court for fraud! Of course, he can pretend all along that it's a wonderfully outrageous piece anyway and say "I do not care if it is a fake, I like it anyway. It works for me."

The believer is happy; the doubter is wise.

Re: resonates?

"The question is - it seems that sometimes I can be aware of the red herrings -- and, as with Ramtha, I wasn't. Why. "

The short answer may be because one is human and as so does not get everything right and has no need to expect to.

However, this is a very important topic and one which I feel can be hard to grasp when in the grips of "resonance".

IMHO the resonance can be so visceral that it is difficult to deny or say that what one is feeling is not true.

When one feels resonance for the most part it is mostly spoken about in a positive light and one based in experience of one growing up. Love at first sight, meeting a best friend, sharing someones sorrow and pain, a moment in nature where one feels apart of everything, etc.

These are very powerful feelings and when felt viseraly they then have a great impact on the way one thinks about them. In fact, I believe that this resonance may be an important part of our survival mechanisms. While usually not spoken of in the same light "red flags" are resonance also,they can create viseral feelings also, a feeling in the pit of ones stomach, etc.

One of differences between the two I see is that the red flags tend to get some analytical thought that goes along with them (again something one learns is helpful when they pay attention to them as they grow),
where the "resonance" often times is deviod of much analitical thought, very possibly the reason for it feeling so powerful.

When one is relieved of having to think out things (a process we all go through on a daily basis) feeling can fill the void. If the feeling is a good one, one wants to hold on to it as long as possible. Given a choice I believe that most people would choose to feel good.

Now to what I believe might address the why part of your question in varying degrees.

Con artists, hucksters, cult leaders, politicians, lawyers all know the importance of creating a feeling of resonance with their marks,members,constituants etc. Part of their job has been to work on perfecting this ability.

The con will dress with authority so that you resonate and "feel" that they are an authority, they create the circumstance with the advance knowlage of how one will most probably react. In short, they play one like a tuning fork. Creating this resonance is what gives them the ability to con you without you giving much thought to the effect thier relationship is having on you other then what they want you to think.

When one is caught up in this resonance mode it is very difficult to get them to think about if what they are feeling is "real" or not. When I say "real" I mean based in reality.

Now it gets a bit tricky, because to try and explain something visceraly intellectually is difficult to say the least as describing the feeling always is subjective and does not lend itself to much debate.
When I say debate, I do not mean to debate there is a feeling there or not. There is a feeling there, that is undeniable for the one feeling. The debate becomes about how it came to be in the first place. Has one been manipulated into that position of feeling? Has one been decieved, guided towards that feeling? Does an outside influence continue to feed the feeling.

As it is difficult to explain, I often use a physical method to make the point. You can try this at home.

All you need are a couple of large glasses and a medium sized pot. Grab a friend, blindfold them or block their vision. have the glasses and the pot filled with water. 1 glass should be filled with ice cold water. The other should be filled with fairly hot water but not scalding. The pot should be filled with room temperature water. The glasses should be seen by the "victim" the pot should be hidden.

Put one finger from each hand of the subject into each of the glasses of water and leave them there for 30 seconds. One in the hot, one in the cold. Ask them how they "feel". Of course you will get the answer back, "One is hot and one is cold". Immediatly following, quietly put the pot on the table and tell them that you are putting thier fingers into new glasses of water. When they put their fingers in the pot ask them what they feel. If you have followed the instructions they should say that the finger that was previously in the hot water feels cold and the one that had previously been in the cold water feels hot.

Allow them to see the pot and they know they had been tricked.

However, what they felt was real!! They did feel it, no denying it. Yet if a thermometer was put in the pot in which they felt 2 differing temperatures it would only read one. Does the other temperature exist? No. Did the subjects feeling exist?Yes
Was it based in reality? NO.

Cult leaders are especially adept at creating this hot and cold feeling, love then abuse. Look at ramtha/JZ the contadictory behavior is just that. While it appears to be nuts and inconcievable it becomes more understandable when looked at in light of the above.

For myself, I have come to understand that the amount of how much I find myself resonating with someone or something requires an equal amount of looking at HOW I arrived at that feeling.

Otherwise I can end up being played like a tuning fork, if not by others then by myself!

Re: resonates?

interesting reply to the why question. I'll have to 'chew' on it a bit.
The phrase /concept of 'red herring' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring)- that is, even though we have a resonance with something doesn't necessarily mean that it is the best/highest good for all concerned. Many "good" girls, for instance, resonate with that cute "bad" boy across the room -- an unwanted pregnancy and some broken bones later we realize resonance isn't everything. A "red herring" is a misdirection... without a red flag in sight.

Re: resonates?

following is something I wrote a while back -- it's a good example of resonance and red herrings...
Pondering the question “why do people get ‘hooked’ into “Ramtha”, while wondering how David’s “where two or three are gathered” comment, I remembered my first time with “Ramtha”. In those ‘early’ days – the mid 1980’s, a “Ramtha” “event” was called “a Dialogue with Ramtha”.
To simply get to the “Dialogue” was a big deal for me at that time of my life. I lived on the Eastern Shore of Virginia, an isolated rural peninsula; hadn’t been on an airplane in years, and had to get to Dallas, Texas. The friend who had introduced me to “Ramtha” assured me that “Ramtha” would send “runners”/helpers to facilitate my journey. Sure enough the “runners” came – When voices starting speaking out of nowhere in a totally intimidating Atlanta airport, some man appeared and guided me to the appropriate ‘subway’ (I’d never seen a subway in an airport before), and disappeared. When I finally arrived at the hotel in Dallas late at night, another woman almost simultaneously arrived at the registration desk. She too had had delays and ‘adventures’ in getting to Dallas, and was also there to attend the “Dialogue”. It was she who explained to the clerk about the room discount, and she who suggested we share a room to save us both money.
The next morning during the registration process for the “Dialogue”, I noticed that the people attending all glowed with some inner light. Their eyes were sparkling as if, in fact, they were windows to their Souls – With today’s language/experience I could compare it to a room full of Via de Cristo participants on Sunday afternoon at the Closing.
My initial experience when “Ramtha” came into the room was to feel like I was in an ocean of love. What was also remarkable, and an assurance to me even at the time, was that it wasn’t about “Ramtha”, i.e. it wasn’t about worshipping “Ramtha”, it was a feeling of being “in love” with everybody – as if the love were coming from/through/to/by them. Nevertheless, I attributed the experience to being in “Ramtha’s” audience.
Only now in contemplating David’s question of “where two or more are gathered” do I realize that I had again attributed to someone else what was more likely the result of people with sincere hearts, desires, intentions, Ideals of loving God with all their heart mind and soul and loving their neighbor as themselves coming together/congregating in one place. We believed what Jesus said about the “Kingdom of God” being within – and we wanted to know how to get there. We were knocking at the door.

Re: resonates?

Re: Graced
"I had again attributed to someone else what was more likely the result of people with sincere hearts, desires, intentions,"
Thank you for the above story, in regards to RSE, what you said here at the end mostly answers your above question as to "Why?" (you were not aware of the red herrings etc. with Ramtha).
My experience of the "people" I encountered, at the retreats, were predominately those who also had sincere, hearts, desires and intentions.In this wonderous and (seeming) MIRACULOUS atmosphere I felt my heart had perhaps found a home.I tended to (want) to overlook the little red flags of oddities in the staff, un-God-like "rules", unanswered "questions", etc.
After moving here and getting a BIGGER picture in regards to RSE, a sort of resonate balance has occured within me. And the most wonderful aspect of this is that as long as I remain open to the adjustment, the miracles are still coming, my resonance is still on target, its just not what I may have initally "thought" it was(as in "about Ramtha").
It is still about the "Kingdom of God" though and that is really where I was aiming for anyway.
Still resonating and lovin' it!

Re: resonates?

btw, I try not to use 'resonate', 'at the end of the day' or 'my truth' when I talk to people normally. I despise cult and political jargon (thought terminating cliches) even though I am sure I use common jargon in other ways. Hard to avoid unless you are a trained linguist, and I am not....

The exercise of writing down all the jargon (loaded language) from RSE, then writing down the appropriate definitions out of the RSE context, is a healing exercise. It begins to rearrange neurological connections that have become ingrained language habits (brainwashing) while in the cult. It does take work...if you could learn anything of value from JZ's inane lectures, you can agree that we can change neurological connections, but I emphasize, this takes work.

Re: resonates?

Wow, that would take alot of work. Practically any phrase is jargon in our "Cult"ure.

Re: resonates?

My latest book and constant companion is a big fat Webster's dictionary. It finally dawned on me I couldn't "find " the word for what I was trying to say, the essence was there but the way to say it remained elusive. Also noticed that was true regarding familiar names (could see the face ), numbers etc.
Could not make the connection. Wow, returning to specific, accurate, definitions has helped dispell the foggy confusing broad generalization world of trance (look up that one! ) I was in. How could one think clearly if all the vocabulary is torqued. Anyone remember Gilda Radner's character that took off on lengthy passionate rants, and then would say "oh, never mind " when presented with the fact she had misunderstood the word or premise to begin with? Changing the definitions does alter the state of being, as well as the understanding and participation in life. I got tired of saying "umm" alot and, "no, that's not really what I mean".

Which brings me to "resonates". This thread made me unravel, ponder and contemplate before I even had a clear thought to respond. Now, I resonate to
wanting everyone in the world to certainly feel safe etc., but i do not resonate to George Bush's plan to achieve that. Easy no brainer. So why do I resonate with buzzwords like those that attracted me to rse? Being resonate does not indicate green light GO! automatically. Perhaps discerment, examination of why that interests me ( repeating a been there done that?), another distraction?,why do I behave like Pavlov"s dog ?, am I looking for love & truth in the wrong place? etc. Now I don't mean "the twilight zone of self contemplation", change that channel,oops, But look at why i resonate is more important now than what I resonate to, This goes for what I react to as well. Why before I Buy. Look at RESULTS before I fall for the promises and or words.
Authentically analyzing my results from rse was my exit card and I was naive to think I could experience it without profound ram-ifications.

And I'm not going to Shop at my own Garage Sale. Clear out the useless clutter
and be very selective and discriminating when I bring home anything new.

Thanks for this enlightening topic.

Re: resonates?

RE: Kathleen
Great line about the garage sale
Makes me wonder about shopping at other peoples garage sales too...
I agree that its important to understand why we resonate with something before shooting like an arrow toward the object of our resonance. For me I have noticed that when something is being brought to my attention it will come again, "if it is mine" so-to-speak, and there's no RUSH.
For me,resonating itself doesn't discriminate between good or bad, it just means there is something there I need to look at, when I choose to.
Thanks for your insightful post.