I want to thank you all for this forum. I have done some reading at facts.net for quite a while now and have enjoyed your postings here also.

I am not a current student, but plan on being so in the very near future. I have had unbelievable success in the teaching of Ramtha and wish to study a bit further.

There was a quote from Mother Teresa that went something like, "If you are going to fight against war I will not be there, but if you are going to give a peace rally count me in...something like that which means...as I am sure you all know that fighting against something or someone is a waste of energy but embracing what you do believe in is a wonder...

I would love to hear what many of you are envolved in now to assist you in Loving your life...Honestly..This is not some contest I am running I wish to grow.

The reason I love this spot so very much is that it allows me to take the questions in and weigh them against what I am thinking and feeling at any given time.

Sometimes I have been saddened by what I hear by all of the things that are being said, but most often I have found this food for thought enlightening as I process through my journey.

I have recently had great losses in my life, without the teachings of the Ram I think I would have been a basket case. Who is to say, but I.

I have kept my loving of Ramtha a secret for many years...Be he real or a fake I so adore the teachings, but on the other hand if I had many of the same experiences as many of you had I too would be out of the group....Most of my teaching have been out of books...reading and deciphering for myself.

It seems that many of you had put everything...All of your trust in Ram instead of yourself, your God! Show me a miracle Ram, heal me Ram, do this do that and never once here do I hear any of you attempting to trust yourself in doing or working on doing these things yourself.

I have had many miracles in my life, and the first person I bowed down to was my God and then my teacher.

I didn't want to listen to what my husband, now ex had to say most of the time because we spent so much time together, so I can imagine that if I thoroughly immursed myself in the school I too would get bored or frustrated at some point...Who knows, but I will keep you posted. BTW with less time with my now ex-husband I have gotten back to loving him also

I first became interested in the school years ago when I wanted to find my soulmate..Now after many...hahahahaha..I have only recently found my soulself which may be enough thus far in this lifetime.

I am not a spring chicken either, I have read just about everything, traveled extensively, met gurus and goblins and in all that I have learned the greatest teachings I have ever come across to explain this lifetime has been that of Ramtha...My family has long thought of the Ram club as a cult, but most of them have transitioned...Makes one wonder...

The teaching have made me laugh, cry, look deep within and make great changes.

There have been somethings that I didn't agree with 20 years ago that have become me truth now.

As far as JZ goes and her love for money, shopping and such, I see her as a very smart woman that adores doing so...She is by all accounts a spiritual being having a very human experience. I love to shop whenever I create a constant cash flow and love feeling beautiful. I have seen her evolve through videos and DVD into someone that believes in herself and I think this is difficult for many to accept.

She has become a very powerful woman welding a sword much like Donald Trump in a sense, but I don't see anyone crushing him for his shrude business sense.

I was amazed to watch JZ hold her own on the Larry King show, she appeared to be someone I would like to hang out with.

I have done a beginners and one assey and I have to admit it was the most amazing time of my life, but then I pretty much find joy wherever I land.

I have been broke and distitute without these teachings but with them I have begun to have incredible ideas pop into my mind and have become self -sufficient.

Lastly I would like to say that I love this spot...Not just because of the food for thought but for all of the demons it allows me to confront by reading here and I by no means are calling you great God's Demons, what I am saying is in each story there is a fear for me to confront and with each fear I confront the greater I become.

Hopefully you will welcome me to this group until I graduate from it.

Blessings to the creators of it, another great disipline it is indeed!

Keep up the good work.

Love your life,
Coco

Re: coco
"what I am saying is in each story there is a fear for me to confront and with each fear I confront the greater I become."

That is SO wonderful to hear! Thank you... its just amazing these last few days to here all the new perspectives on this forum, brings tears to my eyes. TO ME your post sounds and feels sincere and freeing.
My Ramtha experience was deeply moving and mostly reading and listening until I came to Yelm, my beginners retreat and follow-up was also tremendous in many ways. What I recognize now is that it was my God that was teaching me ( the "wonderful" parts of my events)and in a deep way the "original" teachings of the Ram I still retain.
As it was my God that brought me to this it is also my God that has released me, from what (for me) would have been a mistake, to stay involved with RSE at this time. Too many descrepancies.
As for where I am now learning to "Love My Life", daily it seems to come from ALL directions!
There are also my "standby" teachings; Bartholomew, ACIM and of course the Abraham work.
Thank you agian for your post.

Coco,

Quote..
I am not a current student, but plan on being so in the very near future. I have had unbelievable success in the teaching of Ramtha and wish to study a bit further.

Good for you..
However.
As I am sure you already understand…
This forum is for support, sharing opinions and experiences for those who have left RSE and have doubts and concerns about their tenure there.
It is NOT a place for proselytizing for RSE, JZK Inc or Ramtha.

And yes.. EMF does have an agenda and part of that agenda is to warn others of the destructive and fraudulent activities of JZ Knight and RSE.
Your post reads as a clever smoke screen to proselytize for RSE,
worthy of JZ Knight herself.

Please take your “love” of your teacher “Ramtha” and your respect for JZ Knight somewhere else…
It is not welcome or sought after on this forum.

David.

David,
Relax...I am not on some committee to dispute what is going on here...Honestly I am just a chick out here attempting to grow from all experiences.

The only alligence I hold is to myself...Besides most of the folks here seem to be able to think for themselves and appear to be quite bright.

I can understand your need to feel you need to protect them and give them a safe forum, so if I in anyway made you uncomfortable with what I wrote or if someplace deep inside you feeling I am pulling for the bad guys I am not.

I really truly appreciate your spot and certainly hope that you can honor my opinion at time as food for thought for those coming through the ranks.

I STILL pose my question, especially to you as to what you use now as a practice or a belief system to enhance your life. I really would like to know.

I must admit though that you appear to be bitter and angry that everyone does not "Hate" RSE as you do...It will never happen...We all live on this little round ball spinning in space...The best we can do is attempt to get along.

Much love,
Coco

Oh yeah...I forgot to add that if I at all offended you with my words you have my sincerest apology, it was not my intention to do so I was just speaking from my heart.
Coco

Coco,

Quote..

I must admit though that you appear to be bitter and angry that everyone does not "Hate" RSE as you do...

********

Suggesting that I am a bitter and angry person that hates RSE is a typical
response from RSE supporters attempting to devalue me as a human being
and discredit my criticisms of JZK Inc.
If I am a victim...lets talk about the Suspect,
If I am Angry, Lets talk about Why,
If I am Hateful, lets talk about understanding,

You come bearing an olive branch in your left hand while holding a club in your right.

I will take your olive branch but put that club away..
You may drop it on your foot…

David

Thank YOU again.
Although I may not "agree" with your opinion about JZ, I do hear your post as genuine, and I dont feel threatened by our differences.
I also believe that part of the purpose of this forum IS learning to trust ourselves and that many of the posters here are and have been doing just that, some for quite while.
I also hear you as asking a sincere question and that even with your respect for the RSE "teahings" you still are very aware that this is largely what you personally would find anywhere as you say "but then I pretty much find joy wherever I land."
If I dont hear from you again, Thank you anyway.

Coco,
Your Question..

“as to what I use now as a practice or a belief system to enhance my life”.

I do not practice any “spiritual” disciplines ….zilch..
Perhaps making a cup of tea is as much a miracle as bi-locating..?
And Perhaps..
Playing with my daughter is just as spiritual as bathing in the Ganges..?

Perhaps… “enlightenment” is the ability to love..

David

David quote:
Suggesting that I am a bitter and angry person that hates RSE is a typical
response from RSE supporters attempting to devalue me as a human being
and discredit my criticisms of JZK Inc.
If I am a victim...lets talk about the Suspect,
If I am Angry, Lets talk about Why,
If I am Hateful, lets talk about understanding,


I'm not asking you to talk to me about your experiences I have read them and enjoy reading them...as I said they were food for thought.

I don't want to talk about your anger...That is for you to sit with and grow from...

...If you want to be angry, happy or sad it is no sweat off my back and I am not offended by your posting.

I process my anger with good friends that know me well and I will discuss it with them or I seek out information listed such as this forum to work my anger or questions through...This is my way and no one else has to do it this way...It is just what works for me.

I don't care if you hate RSE or not...You are living your life free to choose how you feel.

As I said before my intention is harmless I'm just doing my own life.

I'm not tooting a horn, I was just sharing my opinion...I don't plan on going anywhere, as I said before I enjoy reading here.

Geez! You seem to have a bug up your butt and appear to be a real meanie...Maybe you need to have a lover or something to release some of that pent up energy.

Loving my life,
Coco

Coco quote:
"I am not a current student, but plan on being so in the very near future."

Well, I too, listened to the material for many years - actually for a whole year every single day and then did a retreat and I loved what I heard. Listening to something and attending an event are two very very different experiences, of course in my opinion - perhaps after you have been in the school as long as David has you may have an opinion on what he has experienced. I know where you are coming from - I, too had a spiritual superiority complex - David is right - every little thing we do in our lives is spiritual - right now I do not want to listen to any techings from anyone - i just want to be in nature, be with my own god which is not outside of myself and really and genuinly love those around me, not judge them. That was the ego mirror that I saw at the retreat - I agreed with a lot of what he had said but the day I told Ramtha (listening to his CD) to shut up and stop judging us I realised I had to stop judging myself and love myself more than I ever have and the only voice I am listening to these days is my own - He has a lot of interesting truth but are they his????? We teach by example and love not by yelling at people and making them feel bad - I teach pre school so know that we need love and compassion when we teach.

After the retreat I felt disoreinted, lost my passion, wanted to sleep all the time but it was my wonderful sweet loving inner guidance that kept at me to find more and I found this wonderful site (I was not looking for a site like this but some material to open up my heart more to heal and found it and this) - this site is here for those of us to share our experiences and heal and be a support to each other.

Ramtha quote "I now know all I need to know in this moment" - too right I do - I now know that I will not be part of the RSE group....I now know that I will never attend another Ramtha retreat..... - yes, we need to vent to heal so until you have been in these people's or my shoes you really don't know anything what of what we are all experiencing and don't have the authority to speak as such...............

"Geez! You seem to have a bug up your butt and appear to be a real meanie...Maybe you need to have a lover or something to release some of that pent up energy."
Loving my life,
Coco

Coco - it is really sad to hear what you have just said above - Who gives you the right to speak to anyone like the way you have just done to David - you don't even know him or what he has experienced in the school.......actually it sounds like something Ramtha would say in this spiritual superiority complex voice. I suggest you go to a few retreats at Yelm and then come back and post.....sounds like you are also coming from a place a denial - "love everyone!love everything!" - the above statement doesn't sound like love to me...........

You know, no one defended me on David pretty much putting me on my way when I said I was thankful for this site and have read facts.net also.

Look...There is no crime is having a lover and oftentimes it makes you feel better.

I am not judging anyone, I just posted a thank-you and an opinion, but since I did not agree with the fearless leader I am being ostrasized. Hope I spelled that right.

I have learned from all David has experienced, I learned from my parents...They got divorced but that did not stop me from trying marriage.

I'm going to try the school, the community and I have all these opinions to put forth when I do...What is wrong with that?

Maybe you all or most of you think that you are being loving...But I see it as if you are condeming me ...Hope I spelled that right also for having an opinion and wanting to give it a try.

Some of you make me feel as if you are being parents afraid for the child to strike out on their own.

I mean you no harm, but come on now, allow me my chance to go forth with an open heart and mind to see what you see and to process as I see fit.

Nothing beats a failure but a try...

David attacked me for no good reason other then me sharing what I have come to know thus far with my participating in a group many of you have experienced. I haven't asked the one of you for a dime and I am not homeless and living on the streets here.

I have employment when I relocate and am working on a place to stay. The Northwest is beautiful! There is life before, during and after RSE~

I am of sound mind and body...If I get dupped then I will have bought myself some sense as many of you have.

Give me a break...Don't be so harsh and for goodness sake stop taking everything so personally...Live, Laugh and be jolly!

Coco

~I still think the lover idea would be good for David, even if I wasn't going to the school, he seems so uptight and abrasive...

Also...Regarding the Spiritual Superiority complex as far as I know I have none...I accept all as they are...I know I am very wise and sometimes I have been mistaken for being stuck up simply because I am not behaving as one would assume I should and then have been judged, labled as having an attitude.

Hey miss spiritual superiority complex - enjoy your stay in yelm and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Coco,

You need to chill out! Look back, David mentioned to you, this forum is to support those who have left rse, and no I did not quote David. Coco dear, you are flipping hot and cold, calling for help and support, and attacking David verbally all in one post. You have personally offended me, with your treatment toward a Spiritual Being, having a Human Experience. Could your language be habit, or something you picked up, due to anger? A honest sincere question. Relax, No Worries!

Kay

Whatever...WE are all welcome to our opinions.

Loving my life!
Coco

Coco, I have read and re-read your posts. I give at least that much consideration to EVERY person who posts on this forum. If they take the time to post, I will take the time to read and sometimes, to respond. I have consistently read some patterns in your posts. One is you are contradictory; speaking out of two sides of your mouth. I’ll start with the end of your posting, and work my way upwards. Quoting you and responding…..

“Lastly I would like to say that I love this spot...Not just because of the food for thought but for all of the demons it allows me to confront by reading here and I by no means are calling you great God's Demons, what I am saying is in each story there is a fear for me to confront and with each fear I confront the greater I become.”

I’m glad that you love this spot (forum). It is designed with the intent to be HELPFUL to people, although the creators of it are aware that it’s going to be controversial and upset people who are aligned and supportive of RSE. That is to be expected. What may also be expected, though not tolerated, are those people who attempt to circumvent, for whatever reasons, the STATED PURPOSE of this Message Forum. IT IS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEFT RSE. COCO, YOU have stated that YOU intend to post because YOU want to keep us abreast of what goes on at the school for YOU according to YOUR experience. With all due respect, it’s just not about YOU in that way. You come across as a supporter of JZ Knight, RSE, and Ramtha. While you are very welcome to sustain your viewpoints and opinions, they do NOT belong here. We DO have an agenda and all posters are asked to respect that forthright stated agenda, which you have not done.

Furthermore, you have posted a hostile remark toward David about what YOU think he should do with his sexuality to meet YOUR standard of acceptable behavior, since you are clearly not in favor of one feeling anger if in fact, they do feel it at all. Is it possible you are suppressing your own and/or are afraid to look at it ??????? Hmmmmmm….

Coco, you owe David an apology if YOU can get yourself into a state of empathy and compassion deeply enough to be able to see that. Several other posters have called you on it, in their own words, already, as I have been viewing the website thread as the posts have accumulated, and I have been working on writing this post. Consider that you chose to ignore the STATED PURPOSE of this message forum as your first violation. Consider your hostile remark about what your arrogant comment to David, AS inappropriate, as your second violation. Three strikes, Coco dahhhhhhling, and you are OUT. There will be no warning.

Continuing on if you (or any reader) cares to do so……..

”I don't want to talk about your anger...That is for you to sit with and grow from...”

Coco says SHE doesn’t want to talk about HER DETERMINATION that David has anger. So you are willing to call him out on anger, but then not willing to stand behind it ? What does that say about you ?

“I don't care if you hate RSE or not...You are living your life free to choose how you feel.
...If you want to be angry, happy or sad it is no sweat off my back and I am not offended by your posting.”

COCO doesn’t care if you hate RSE or not, yet COCO claims that COCO ‘would love to hear what many of you are envolved …..INvolved…. in now to assist you in Loving your life…Honestly.”, which seems a contradiction since COCO states above that COCO doesn’t care if you hate RSE or not, and none of it is any sweat off HER back. Do excuse me while I start perceiving your lack of sincerity, Coco.

”I process my anger with good friends that know me well and I will discuss it with them or I seek out information listed such as this forum to work my anger or questions through...This is my way and no one else has to do it this way...It is just what works for me.”

COCO, I am so glad that you said this because it explains for me, the passive aggressive hostility you seem to be spewing at David, with your Almighty Determination, putting words in his mouth, stating that he is “angry”. And that because he is angry,

”As I said before my intention is harmless I'm just doing my own life. I'm not tooting a horn, I was just sharing my opinion...I don't plan on going anywhere, as I said before I enjoy reading here.”

COCO tells readers all about how SHE feels and where SHE is going, and how harmless it is. Harmless when you are slamming other people by “hitting below the belt?”

“I'm not asking you to talk to me about your experiences I have read them and enjoy reading them...as I said they were food for thought.”
“I would love to hear what many of you are envolved in now to assist you in Loving your life...Honestly..This is not some contest I am running I wish to grow.”

Again I am finding myself questioning the sincerity in which you post your words. You are coming across as highly self-absorbed. Yes, it IS all about YOU, but it is NOT all about YOU AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS ON THIS FORUM. If you want to hear what other’s have to say, but you are going to express hostile remarks if YOU PERCEIVE that someone is angry in a way YOU determine they should not be, then you really don’t want to hear what others have to say. Check that out.

”The reason I love this spot so very much is that it allows me to take the questions in and weigh them against what I am thinking and feeling at any given time.”

It really just is all about YOU, isn’t it ?

”Sometimes I have been saddened by what I hear by all of the things that are being said, but most often I have found this food for thought enlightening as I process through my journey.”

So, why doesn’t THIS surprise me ? It’s actually quite predictable, really. Any cult program fosters a highly narcissitic worldview and Coco, you sure exemplify it in your posts. You know the saying, the color red in the rainbow is the last color YOU will see.

I wonder; did you lose any sleep over those many people who died in the great tsunami, a couple of years ago ? After all, they deserved their fates, right ? the Almighty Ramtha AND JZ Knight said that they did. I heard both of them say it. But, because I think for myself and I have an open fourth seal, I disagreed. I don’t believe that those people were any “badder” than anyone else on this planet. There were infants on that beach. There were elderly on that beach. There was an 8 year old girl on that beach who had just finished studying tsunamis in her school class only weeks before and who screamed out, “It’s a tsunami.” Did she, and the rest of them, deserve to die? YOUR teacher, Coco, SUPPORTED THEIR DEATHS. He said if they were to stupid (lacking intuition that the tsunami wasn’t on its way) that they deserved to DIE. Coco, did you finish processing that ? I did. “Ramtha” has lost the PRIVELEGE of teaching me. He taught me my final lesson; what I do NOT want to be like; HIM. Or JZ. Perish the thought that I would ever be so cold hearted toward another human being.

Have you finished processing how it’s justifiable in your mind that children in RSE are REPEATEDLY exposed to CHILD ABUSE by repeatedly seeing their Spiritual Teacher stinking DRUNK while SWEARING WITH CURSE LANGUAGE SO FOUL THAT IT WOULD EMBARRASS MOST ADULTS, AND THE GRAPHIC, REPEATED USE OF SEXUAL TALK THAT WOULD EMBARRASS A MILITARY BOOT CAMP DRILL SARGEANT ???? OR TO HAVE CHILDREN SEE THE SAME TEACHER PHYSICALLY HIT ADULTS IN FRONT OF THEM ? This same teacher tells these kids and adults he LOVES them, so what is to be expected but for innocent children to start to equate abuse with love. Coco, I feel deep compassion for your inability to be more that “saddened” by these things, and that is only the tip of the iceberg. You are a person I would likely NOT want to “hang out with”.

”It seems that many of you had put everything...All of your trust in Ram instead of yourself, your God! Show me a miracle Ram, heal me Ram, do this do that and never once here do I hear any of you attempting to trust yourself in doing or working on doing these things yourself.”
“I have recently had great losses in my life, without the teachings of the Ram I think I would have been a basket case. Who is to say, but I.”
”I have had many miracles in my life, and the first person I bowed down to was my God and then my teacher.”

COCO, there you go again….making determinations, if not passing outright judgments, about other people “seeming to have put all of their trust in the Ram instead of themselves”. Wrong, Coco. People trusted the Ram to be who he said he is, and they trusted THEMSELVES TO IMPLEMENT THE TEACHINGS THEY WERE GIVEN. They did their disciplines. They focused on the same card for years and years and years. Yes, SOME glorious things happened to many people. The FACT is we cannot determine that those things would not have happened anyway. Since there are many cards/dreams that have not manifested, and nobody has attained God realization or even close, the teachings do not work on a consistent basis for any person, and haven’t in 25 or more years. Red flag. If you read all the posts, which you clearly have NOT, you could not have made the statement you made above, with regard to people “not doing”.

“I didn't want to listen to what my husband, now ex had to say most of the time because we spent so much time together, so I can imagine that if I thoroughly immursed myself in the school I too would get bored or frustrated at some point...Who knows, but I will keep you posted. BTW with less time with my now ex-husband I have gotten back to loving him also.”

I think you missed something here, Coco. I don’t think people here have been talking about becoming bored or frustrated with the school. Many people can deal with those two things. It goes far beyond that.


As far as JZ goes and her love for money, shopping and such, I see her as a very smart woman that adores doing so...She is by all accounts a spiritual being having a very human experience. I love to shop whenever I create a constant cash flow and love feeling beautiful. I have seen her evolve through videos and DVD into someone that believes in herself and I think this is difficult for many to accept.

She has become a very powerful woman welding a sword much like Donald Trump in a sense, but I don't see anyone crushing him for his shrude business sense.

JZ WIELDS a sword like Donald Trump but nobody crushes him for his SHREWD business sense? Apparently, you don’t read up about Trump’s critics. Apparently, you also aren’t quite as smart as you claim to be, because you’ve missed a salient point about posters here, who cite their EXPERIENCES about what they have seen, heard, directly or indirectly, with regard to JZ in ways that are something you choose to categorize as “crushing”. If anyone is “wielding” a sword, perhaps it should be when they have evolved to the point of their fourth seal. When posters on this forum expect fourth seal behavior from a person who claims she is the world’s first female Christ, yes, yes, calling one out to accountability for a show of first three seal behaviors, is warranted.
COCO, you are certainly free to call that “crushing a powerful woman”. Others choose to call it what it is – CONTRADICTION to the teachings that warrants answers to some hard questions. To date, those questions have been ignored.

As for your OPINION about JZ with regard to her liking to look beautiful and enjoying spending money and shopping: bully for JZ. Lots of women like to do those very same things. THAT is not the point. You missed the point – but you may have needed or wanted to miss the point. Keep reading, and perhaps you’ll gain the courage to REALLY look within. Maybe you'll expand from loving YOUR life into loving ALL LIFE. That includes respect for it.

Where's Wolfman with that mirror ?

Well... for a thread that's titled "Thank You" this sure has taken a turn, hasn't it?

I made my comment to David and I meant what I said, David appeared to be uptight as well as you...But then again that is just my personal opinon. I will offer a heartfelt apology if this were hitting below the belt but I can not see it as being so as I have read many of his and your posts on fact.net and you have both also slammed many.

David, please accept my deepest apology if I offended you in anyway. I love you man!

I do not know any other way to say to you all that I wrote here because I felt it would be welcomed, but now it feels as if I am not one of the "Good 'ole girls" I shouldn't read or write to grow...It is stiffling to say the least.

Look, I just lost both of my brothers, my Father and my Mother in one full swoop. Did they deserve to die, I don't know but the truth of the matter was they did...I am not looking for your empathy regarding them or the Tsunami victims, I was just posting here and sharing my opinion. Heck, I even found a few tears for the death of Anna Nicole, give me a break, I feel ya'

I hear you give disrespect all the time to the RSE group and JZ Knight, so it behooves me to think that my little comment would have such a large effect on you.

I will take your comments to heart, actually it feels rather good to be called narcissistic, oftentimes I have been told that I get too involved in the feeling of others so..to hear now that I am focusing on myself makes me feel like I have grown somewhat. What other view point can I have if not from my own perspective? Come on now...I am not one that does that he said she said stuff. I struck a chord here and I am not quite sure why or how...But it is very interesting.

I am not attempting to make any of you rethink your experience.. Hey I'm the one that prefaced my letter with thank you~!

You have my apologizies for not respecting your group as you wish, what more can you ask of me, what more can I do for you? I'm all about love and these attacks are insane because I do not agree with everything you are saying here.

Let me ask you this...Am I allowed to have an opinion here or do you just want me to go along with the program much like I do with the enormous taxes that are taken out of my salery?

I wrote with honest inquiry... I have been accused of being an insider amongst other things and no one said that was hitting below the belt or that I deserved an apology???

As I said I am just an ordinary person out here attempting to grow, I am sure there are more of the like here reading but afraid to come forth with their feelings or questions because you all jump the gun as if there is some ulterior motive. Really there isn't...

Sheesh...I was kinda liking you guys and now you feel like bullies..Shucks.. I hope this doesn't get me booted for having these feelings.

As far as the abuse stuff goes at RSE, I have yet to see it, I attended a wine ceremony with children present and not a one was drinking. I have been on the field, in the tank and done the remote viewing and the experience has been much like any other seminar or training I have paid for, some good, some bad...As I said before, Ramtha is not my saviour he is just a teacher and I have had many.

I understand what your forum is about and that is why I am here, I'm just doing things a little bit different. I am having a life before, during and after RSE, isn't that what life is about...I ascribe to nothing and do as I please to grow into all that I can be.

Regards,
Coco

hi dance,

yes, it sure has.

it's unfortunate on one hand, that the author of the thread contradicted herself with a very CONDITIONAL "thank you" via her personal attack on david and subsequent lack of empathy for her impact on someone else. "whatever" was the response. totally self centered and narcissitic. it was "thank you" according to her standards of what it did FOR HER ONLY. perhaps she didn't read the fine print ..... which isn't so fine. we're very open about the fact we do have an agenda here.

her first paragraph details her intent to join rse and her only concern was some sadness from posts she's read. scary, really. how anyone could read this forum and factnet and ONLY muster up "sadness" is mind bending to me.

it's just so "new agey" to say, "well, they created it" and blow anything one doesn't want to look at, off. well, if we are all creating our realities, then why haven't these awesome manifesting new agers stopped world hunger, war, rape of innocence, murder, etc....you see where i am going with that. we WOULD BE living upon heaven on earth if we created our own reality with no conditions whatsoever. the fact is there ARE conditions upon how much we can create.

oh, dear. I am OFF TOPIC !! shutting up now. dance, this is all your fault ! YOU got me off topic. it's not MY fault, you know.

Wow! You are really pulling me apart here, who needs a shrink when you can come here and get a diagnosis for free.

You can call me anything you wish and say I cross talked or whatever...But, my intention was to be honest and sincere in my comment and to just to put forth a question and share my experience, which I thought this forum was all about.

How come I got such a rise out of you for sharing my experience? Why are you calling me so many things? You don't EVEN know me and I am sure if you ever met me you would love me.

Care to meet for tea?

Loving Kindness,
Coco

Coco,

If it feels like we are being bullies, we are not. We are holding firm TO WHAT WE STATE RIGHT UP FRONT, which is our posted purpose. It clearly states that the message forum is NOT for supporting RSE, JZK INC, Ramtha, JZ. The FACT is, you blew right past that and did not respect it. Your opening paragraph in your first post stated pro-RSE position.

If I went onto a breastfeeding forum and starting touting the joys of bottlefeeding formula, you bet I would be called on it and rightly so.

Then, you're response to being called on it was to attack the person. Not okay. I would suggest it would have been more appropriate to ask David if he was angry because he sounded it to you, rather than take the position/reaction you did. THAT would have at least shown respect. He was doing his job and pointing out to you that you were posting out of bounds and you "shot the messenger" so to speak.

We are interested in the people who have been looking for SUPPORT FOR FORMER STUDENTS OF RSE. They are our primary concern as we know what they struggle with when they feel alone with their doubts, concerns, questions, etc. They need a place to go to speak out and not have someone getting on them about how they should just "move on" with their life, or, blame them for having created their issues. Would they tell a little 3 year old rape victim that they created their reality ? If we ALL create our reality is that even a good thing ? Oh, yes, LOTS to think about.

And it's NOT just about each of us and nobody else. It is about each of us WITH everybody else. That's what it is to have a moral compass. You said you are no spring chicken, so then you should know that and I will assume you do. It's a choice to LIVE IT, however.

You said that you've read where we've shown disrespect toward RSE. I don't agree. My perception has been that we have shed light on discrepancies, experiences, some facts, and have expressed a number of times from a number of us that we feel compassion toward JZ. Shedding light on things that you know to be true is not being disrespectful.

But, allowing conditions to continue in your "school", and draining people of all resources for teachings that fail to fulfill what they claim they are going to, is disrespect, to say the least. It's a disregard of human lives, for the sake of the almighty dollar.

I clearly stated in my previous post that I acknowledged your right to your viewpoints about RSE. I do. I would expect that we all do. You are welcome to post, but you are wrongfully posting if you are posting your pro-RSE journey here. That's not bullying; it's just stated fact. Please don't go there. Not on this forum. Perhaps there is another place you can do that. This isn't it.

Best to you,
Whatcha

...No problem meeting for tea. It's one of my favorite drinks to share over a delightful conversation.

...wink...just not sure what we'd converse about.

You are right - we may well like one another. Nobody is saying your not likable.


Whether we did or not, this forum is just not for pro-RSE postings, it's that simple. If you choose going there, that's your business. I went there for the majority of 17 years. That doesn't make a lot of things "okay", however. And I'm not going to sweep them under the rug.

You didn't answer my question about child abuse. You said you haven't seen children drinking. I haven't, either. My reference was to the children being repeatedly exposed to Ramtha's talk of clearly ADULT SEXUAL CONTENT AND VILE CURSE LANGUAGE, along with at least two instances of adults being physically hit by him. Do you think that's okay ? If you DO witness that during an event, do you think it's okay because those children created that reality ? I'm just curious.

If I went on a breast feeding forum and tooted my horn about bottle feeding I would expect to at least get information as to why breast-feeding would be better. I would not expect to get attacked!

To assume that because of my age, not being a spring chicken that there would not be perhaps cultural differences that might allow me to have the opinions I do is absurd...

To assume that you know how others are feeling as they process on their journey is crazy also. You can not be in another's head.

As a teacher I do not rant at my student when they do not agree with my opinions, I just share what I know and oftentimes they have been able to shed light on my life experience in kind.

There have been many times when I have read fact.net that I have not agreed with the opinions of others and then there have been times that I have...I have attacked no one over it, I just took what I could and let the other stuff go.

Finally I find something to write about and have a question to put forth...A thank you at that and you all have beat me down so...

Isn't it nice to know that your forum has reached others that are in the midst of what you went through and because of what you experience they can take it forth to gain knowledge in diciphering the information given forth? I would think you would find that a success instead of a war you have to fight!

Life is so very simple and all this fighting is really not necessary, give over to all that you are and all will be resolved.

BTW, I'm not new age, I'm old age. I don't care for fluff, I go for what works for me.

I'm not trying to transform my life, I'm just out here loving it, it's pretty darn good right now.

Wishing you all the best,
Coco

Dear Coco,
IF YOU WANT PEACE, STOP FIGHTING! Your attitude on any level, does not frighten me. You have the ability to be loving, as we all do, it is a choice. I sincerely accept you as you are.

You didn't answer my question about child abuse. You said you haven't seen children drinking. I haven't, either. My reference was to the children being repeatedly exposed to Ramtha's talk of clearly ADULT SEXUAL CONTENT AND VILE CURSE LANGUAGE, along with at least two instances of adults being physically hit by him. Do you think that's okay ? If you DO witness that during an event, do you think it's okay because those children created that reality ? I'm just curious.

My answer to this would be...Where are the parents? I can not hold Ramtha responsible for this, I would have to hold the parent responsible for having thier child present.

If I felt the conversation or topic was above board for my children I would remove them from the situation...I have had to do so at parties I have given when the adults get a little too "Happy" and say or do things I deem inappropriate.

Again...I feel many believe Ramtha is their saviour and that anything he does is okay...Once again...The Ram is not my saviour nor the ruler of my household, but...I just absorb what I can.

As far as adults being hit...Unless the Ram has some cosmic wand that would stop me, my natural reflex to being hit is to hit back..smiles.. I grew up with two older brothers that use to bully me all the time til I figured out how to fight for myself...Them hitting me or picking on me did not negate the love that I know they had for me. I was not hit by my parents but many of my friends were, do they love their parents any less for doing so...I think not.

So...I guess what I have to say about Ram hitting someone would be the same as I would say to my children...If the abuse continues maybe you should smack 'em back!

Hope that answers your questions.

Dear Farmgirl,

I feel I have made peace now..I feel better and can go to bed and come back on another day to read from this fabulous forum here...

To all of you sweet dreams.

Thanks again...hahahahaha!

Coco

Coco....
Your name gives you away.
What you are doing is called "aping".
And you are a RSE "house plant".
Go back to the mansion and put yourself back on the shelf along side the gargoyles.
There are no "folkie's" here.
Only Individuals, who have earned the right to call themselves as such.

>>>As a teacher I do not rant at my student when they do not agree with my opinions, I just share what I know and oftentimes they have been able to shed light on my life experience in kind.

Thanks, Wolfman. That was a bit cold, but maybe this thread needs a cold shower!
Many years ago ex-members of my old "cult" Church Universal and Triumphant (CUT), the one led by Guru Ma, Elizabeth Clare Prophet until dementia took over her brain in 1997 (the "masters" she channeled suddenly disappeared---go figure), ran a similar ex-member forum to this one. After a few months the webmaster had a hellava time redirecting people from the "ad hominem" (personal) attacks that threads often devolved into.

The problem generally starts with one narcisstic type who is either sympathetic to the cult or still involved in an internal psychobbable about "me, myself and I." Such a person can trigger reactionary responses and thus cause a false dichotomy in dialogue. Nothing gets resolved because the narcissist always comes up with thought stopping cliches like "Oh, that is your truth" or 'everything is perfect in the moment' (that last line was used by Werner Erhard of the old "est" (now Landmark). The narcissist will also blame someone else for the reaction when in fact it was he or she who "started the fire."

Clinically, narcissim as a disorder occurs when an insecure person tries to live through a kind of role or mask. Such a person will try to gain sympathy when unmasked:
eg: coco said she lost her 2 family members to death in "one full swoop" [btw that's 'fell swoop' unless it was a typo] to disarm the perceived attackers.
The bottom line is that creating a false dichotomy to control a thread is manipulation, not honest conversation.

Webmaster, I do not envy you!

Joe

my bad---coco lost 4 family members in one "full swoop."
Joe

miss coco channel

sounds like the bug is up your butt!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't seem to be "getting the point" so instead of defending yourself or judging others why don't you go and look at some of your ego mirrors and came back with genuine love, gentle understanding and compassion - i don't hear that energy in any of your words - because the way I observe it that is just what they are - just words.

And you know, you really do sound "new agey" -

OK GANG!!!!
Its a new Day

Re: Whatcha "oh, dear. I am OFF TOPIC !! shutting up now. dance, this is all your fault ! YOU got me off topic. it's not MY fault, you know."

COOL! I was asleep and yet still responsible for your experience!!! I AM ALL POWERFUL (afterall )
Thank You

There is nothing to be gained from personal attacks. The point is to discuss issues and ideas, not personalities. Please refrain from making personal comments directed toward others.

Thank you for your insight, Joe. Points well taken.

I would like to quickly address in my limited time right now, that I found it interesting to note that when asked about the issue of what to do about children being repeatedly exposed to child abuse in RSE, that it was only the parent who was to be held repsonsible.

So, a human parent, who doesn't know what the God-teacher is going to say, does not hold any accountability for creating the reality of choosing to use abusive language/actions in front of children, KNOWING they are in the audience.

Interesting viewpoint.

Getting specifically back on track with the thread to those to whom it applies; it's NOT for PRO-RSE postings. Period. There are other posters on this forum who have asked for support and info with their decision to leave RSE, or dealing with their changes once they have. Please refrain from diversionary postings of personal, pro-RSE musings. Thank you for your cooperation with the stated intent of this forum.

People who tried RSE and left are looking at both sides of the equation, positive and negative. Therefore pro RSE thoughts are inevitable and deserve examination because they were reasons for joining. To tell people they can't post any pro RSE statements is heavy censorship and imitative of RSE's "gag order."
The insight of people who have passed through RSE and made some good out of it could be helpful to those who are struggling.

Coco....
Your name gives you away.
What you are doing is called "aping".
And you are a RSE "house plant".
Go back to the mansion and put yourself back on the shelf along side the gargoyles.
There are no "folkie's" here.
Only Individuals, who have earned the right to call themselves as such.

Now why is it I need to apologize for my statement and his hurling insults to me gets him fanfare????

My nickname is actually not just a sign on for this group...It is my real nickname and it I received it because I use to have a real love for hot cocoa when I was a child...That's the facts sir...just stating the facts.

My drink of preference now is coffee or tea in case you were wondering.

Smiles...
Coco

People who tried RSE and left are looking at both sides of the equation, positive and negative. Therefore pro RSE thoughts are inevitable and deserve examination because they were reasons for joining. To tell people they can't post any pro RSE statements is heavy censorship and imitative of RSE's "gag order."
The insight of people who have passed through RSE and made some good out of it could be helpful to those who are struggling.

Wow~! Thank you...This was beginning to feel like a meeting at Kingdom hall or worse a witch hunt!

I hated peas when I was younger but when I became an adult I began to like them...Had I not tried them again maybe I would never have gotten to this point.

Again...I just gave my opinion and any good shrink will tell you that if it ignites this much fire in your belly maybe it's something you need to take a look at.

Hey, I was big enough to apologize...Yikes! Do you really think my opinion is that threatening that those in your forum would have a change of heart or something?

I received an email from a guy here that shared his experience and told me he use to feel exactly as I did...He went on to share somethings that were very enlightening to say the least...whoops...I will probably be judged on using that word...What the heck!

This is what I was hopeing to receive...Not all the attacks...Thank you so for your email and also to all of you others...There seems to be a group of bright folks in the background here...Thank God...Thank Goodness...Thank whatever...Seems no matter what I say I'm going to have a pie thrown in my face...

Don't you just love life!

Loving Kindness,
Coco

Thanks for the correction on my typos...We really are getting petty here...I only received two answers to my queary (sp) as to what many of you are doing now to enhance/love your lives...Seems like most of what you are doing knocking folks down and calling names because one is not in agreement with you.

Clinically, narcissim as a disorder occurs when an insecure person tries to live through a kind of role or mask. Such a person will try to gain sympathy when unmasked:
eg: coco said she lost her 2 family members to death in "one full swoop" [btw that's 'fell swoop' unless it was a typo] to disarm the perceived attackers.
The bottom line is that creating a false dichotomy to control a thread is manipulation, not honest conversation.

Hey! I wasn't and never asked for sympathy...I mentioned this simply because Whatcha mentioned the Tsunimi and if these people deserved to die...This is
for clarification on your thoughts.

I don't need sympathy, I loved my family when they were around...I miss them but I harbor no guilt over their deaths...I have GREAT memories~!

I intend to live for a very long time so I may be around to see a lot of folks close there eyes...All I stated were that Rams teaching helped me greatly with my loss!

I know folks that have lost loved ones and never got over it, I am proud to say that I have been able to get on with my life and can feel joyful after such an experience. I had wonderful parents and although my brothers bullied me at a young age we had a great relationship!

Stop trying to put words into my mouth and assume I am cross talking...But then again go right ahead that is what these forums are for to read, listen, discipher and grow.

Coco

BTW, Elizabeth Claire Prophet never resonated with me...She has dementia now??? Who would have thought?

YEP! I do! (Just Love Life)
And once again THANK YOU!
All dialogs include Pro/Con musings, and they are going to happen here wether everyone "likes" it or not. I for one am not going to refrain from saying what my TOTAL experience was, positive and negative.
I am also not going to refrain from making personal comments WHAT OTHER KIND OF COMMENTS WOULD I MAKE???
Just like back in the sandbox...(I think its called duck and cover)
I personally love Cherry Pie

PS. my previous post was for Whatcha (personal) because she can get silly and sometimes likes to laugh and so DO I!!!!!!!!

Thanks again

Thank you for your insight, Joe. Points well taken.

I would like to quickly address in my limited time right now, that I found it interesting to note that when asked about the issue of what to do about children being repeatedly exposed to child abuse in RSE, that it was only the parent who was to be held repsonsible.

So, a human parent, who doesn't know what the God-teacher is going to say, does not hold any accountability for creating the reality of choosing to use abusive language/actions in front of children, KNOWING they are in the audience.

Interesting viewpoint.

I don't take my children to R rated movie because I don't know what they are going to say...

Now if this same thing happened at the School of Excellence I may have a bone to pick. It is a school specifically for children as I think they have also have events for such.

Parents...Human parents need to take responsibility for their children.

My daughter was in a gifted program in school...There was an awards presentation. 37 parents were awarded for the 12 students in the class, that means grandparents, step parents and aunts and uncles aside from parents assisted in the welfare of these so called gifted children...The other classes with student capacity of around 23 or more had maybe 4-5 awards to give out to the parent involvement.

It takes a village or at least one who is being responsible for the gift of child rearing they have been given.

I have no excuses for these parents that allow their children to continue to sit when clearly the conversation is not for their ears...Sheesh! I do not hold the movie producer responsible for my choices...NO!

On behalf of RSE, they have event for children and also allow children to most of the regular if not all events..heck I don't know, but then again...My children can go to an R rated movie with me also! It is a personal choice you know!

Coco says:

"If I felt the conversation or topic was above board for my children I would remove them from the situation...I have had to do so at parties I have given when the adults get a little too "Happy" and say or do things I deem inappropriate."

Based on the above, I would think that you would understand that your original post was "inappropriate".

People at your party I am sure didn't have a list of things that you did not want spoken about because of their inappropriatness. If they had, I would think you would have removed them and not your children.

One question I would have for you is if you know that adults at your parties get "happy" and have behaviour that you feel is inappropriate for your children, why would you expose them to that in the first place???

If a friend (s) told you that the party you were going to one night down the block has been known to have things going on that they know you would find inappropriate would you go anyway???

I do not feel that one needs to "experience everything for themselves" . We live in a collective world with a consensus reality.

If you saw a sign on a river that said "do not swim because of crocodiles" Would you let yourself or your children in just because you had not seen any crocks??

I will be the last to say that there is such a thing as perfect parenting. However, I make a distiction between when I have erred in my judgement and "personal choice".

Getting specifically back on track with the thread to those to whom it applies; it's NOT for PRO-RSE postings. Period. There are other posters on this forum who have asked for support and info with their decision to leave RSE, or dealing with their changes once they have. Please refrain from diversionary postings of personal, pro-RSE musings. Thank you for your cooperation with the stated intent of this forum.

I don't understand this statement if you are really trying to help folks, opps make that indiviuals...don't want another slap in the face.

Maybe...just maybe they got some spark or something from all the money they spent. It is as if you have decided that the great part of your life that you spent at the school was in vain. If nothing else you bought yourself some sense as my grandmother use to say. Paid for something that dupped you so you know better next time.

If I had just written a simple thank you to this forum you never would have known what I feel deep inside as I am processing my journey.

If you want to help someone...really assist you need to get to the core of their feelings not just the surface.

To say I dislike or like the school and all that I went through is a blanket statement, unless you add to that the reason. How else can one shed light on the experience. All that happens if you don't look at the core of the situation is one walking away feeling justified for what they are feeling and not being able to pinpoint the whys or whatfores. This will set one up for having the same experience over and over just putting a cover on top or blaming their feelings on others.

There was an interesting spin on a comment on facts.net about a women purchasing a feather when told to manifest one. I thought for days on that one and came up with some pretty insightful viewpoints in my processing.

I shudder to think if I had attempted to process through my thoughts in light of what has been shown me in my giving an an opinion and the posing of a question here.

Would I have reached the point in regards to what manifesting really is to me or would I have just shut down to even attempting to think for myself.

You don't have to be the preacher along the road, live your life as you wish and if others are interested they will ask you how you did what you did.

That is what I did, I came here and ask what else is out there...You mentioned the love of a cup of tea or your daughter brings sunshine to your day. I have tea, I have a daughter that I love, this is nice, but I was looking more for things that would enhance my experience on earth and would be ample answers for my daughter when she poses her questions to me about what more is out there.

Thanks to you though I took the time to be in the moment and be grateful for the tea and the lovely child with all of her questions. For the first time since we have talked about the move she told me she was looking forward to our trip to the Northwest. This is a feat in itself since who wants to leave the only life they have known.

It's funny since I was having so many thoughts after being slammed last night...Maybe there is something to that...And a child will lead the way!

Thank you again for all of your comments, I'm a little bit stronger and a little bit more knowlegable today because of you! Honestly...

In-Joy,
Coco

One question I would have for you is if you know that adults at your parties get "happy" and have behaviour that you feel is inappropriate for your children, why would you expose them to that in the first place???

When I have parties I always say children are welcome. I want my friends to be comfortable, I am family orientated. We do cook outs or holiday events. We like having our kids around us. We don't have orgies...But there are times when someone has had a bit much and I have had to tell the children to go to the basement or that we are on adult topics and they will have to excuse themselves...It happens, not always but nothing that can not be handled.

If a friend (s) told you that the party you were going to one night down the block has been known to have things going on that they know you would find inappropriate would you go anyway???

I might go..it depends on the friend...If it were one of my close ones I would probably not attend because we tend to like many of the same things...So no I wouldn't, if it were one of my prudish friends I might attend because I tend to be a bit more open...It would really depend on who said what and what the inapproiateness would be, certainly I would have to ask the question...

I do not feel that one needs to "experience everything for themselves" . We live in a collective world with a consensus reality.

I agree with this...

Experience is relative...If a friend told me there were crocodiles in the water I wouldn't jump in, But if a used car saleman told me, "This car is going to run for a long while",and even if he were a friend I'd have to have the auto checked out!

If you saw a sign on a river that said "do not swim because of crocodiles" Would you let yourself or your children in just because you had not seen any crocks??

There use to be signs that said "Whites only" on the water fountains in the south there is some research that some Blacks thought somehow that water was different
and something really bad would happen if they drink it...Oftentimes it did by hanging. There were some whites that thought the water would be contaminted if the Blacks drank from it. The signs came down but the water remained the same.

Sometimes signs or blocks are put up just to control folks...Depends on where the sign was...If it were at the lake here I would know it was not true...no crocs in this part of the country...but if I were in say...Louisiana...then maybe we would forego the swimming for that day. :)

I will be the last to say that there is such a thing as perfect parenting. However, I make a distiction between when I have erred in my judgement and "personal choice".

Please understand...You can not blame a teacher for a parents stupidity or unknowingness of what is appropriate for a child. There are all forms of education material out here for them to garner information from.

If you told me that there are NO events for childrens specifically or no school for the children to render this same information on their level I would jump on your band wagon but there is...

one more thing...as for talking out of both sides of my mouth...I have two sides..why not use them?

There are pros and cons to my experinces with RSE...I am here to learn and gain knowledge there are other sites where I go where it is mostly pro RSE...Not once in my posting at that site have I been attacked as I have been here when I have put forth an honest question depending on where I am in my growth,it was been answered. In fact one such question I had at that group give me the lead to facts.net...go figure...So that is how I found you...By a suggestion from an current RSE student!

I was not attempting to sway anyones opinion here I was just sharing mine.

So...Talking out of both sides of my mouth has it's good points...I guess some would call that balance!

Love your life~
Coco

Thanks for responding to my questions Coco,

re:
"Please understand...You can not blame a teacher for a parents stupidity or unknowingness of what is appropriate for a child. There are all forms of education material out here for them to garner information from."

With all due respect, you are not the arbiter of what I can and cannot do.

Yes, I can blame (meaning hold accountable) a teacher for a parents "unknowingness" when they themselves have set it up to keep that parent in unknowing!

Jz's gag order would mean not speaking to ones parents about anything discribed in the agreement.

The school is creating an atmosphere of unkowingness initiated by JZ.

ramtha/JZ stating that it will lie to you when it deems necessary is creating an atmosphere of unknowingness.

Allowing people to wallow in their own perceptions which have been shaped and shifted by JZ and co. and pretending that it is something else is creating an atmosphere of unknowingness.

You claimed to have experienced pros and cons and having the ability to speak out of both sides of your mouth so I was wondering if you would list the "cons" in order of importance to you.

>>>>On behalf of RSE, they have event for children and also allow children to most of the regular if not all events..heck I don't know, but then again...My children can go to an R rated movie with me also! It is a personal choice you know!