Thank YOU for this website and all your efforts. I've just spent 2 days reading
everything, At first I felt huge relief, but now my head is reeling with all I'd come to perceive as "normal" and how to make my way back home to me.
I watched ramtha videos in the 80's, was swallowed up by "BLEEP", and attended the beginners Retreat in Hawaii Dec 06. The 1st red flag was jz cancelling her appearance 2-3 weeks before the event due to exhaustion (wouldn't a nap help) and what happened to being impeccable with your word.
No refunds. I'm by passing for now my experiences, red flags etc. of that week as it's too much energy to sort thru it all and lack of clarity, focus,confusion, keeping attention on 1 task for 15 seconds is very much the problem right now. It built up slowly thru January, but basically I sleep alot,watch tv, feel disconnected and separated from others , don't leave my home, postpone everything, no ability to concentrate or be productive etc.
You get the picture. Really miss myself and my life. Has anyone found it?
Is this a common side effect ? More later. Thanks again.

Has anyone found it?
Is this a common side effect ?

Yes, Yes, YES. You are closer to home than you ever imagined Kathleen.

Kathleen,

Welcome,
The awakening process may take the form of immense inner turmoil, fear, loss ness, anger…betrayal…
Cleaning out the RSE infections will take honesty and courage. .
Eventually the censor of your life and heart…will return to the shadow lands..
As your light returns it will become too bright for “Ramtha” to hide behind.
And you will see your way home.
There are others on this board that understands what you are going through,
Sharing your story will help you... and others navigate home..

We are here for you…..


David

kathleen,

Sorry to hear you are having difficulties. I am assuming from your post that you were not having these difficulties prior to rse??

Sounds like you may be experiencing information overload. If you have not been in the position to have to process alot of information in a short space of time it can be quite overwhelming especially when the information creates a conflict.

You may want to take it easy for a couple of days and se if there is any change, if not, you may want to consider seeking professional help.

Best wishes

Kathleen, Here is a copy of the Conditions of Participation at RSE. This version was first presented to Blue College students in February of 2006. Thus from your post I would conclude you signed the same form. As you can see in section six as it was cancelled by JZK Inc. you are entitled to a refund. If I was you I would pursue the matter.

There were events cancelled in Australia in the early 90's for the reasons of JZ not wanting to travel. Getting a refund out of RSE was like extracting teeth.....
Some people were never refunded I was told and others who did lost money becuase the exchange rate altered (it took about 6 weeks for the refund to be given to those who got it). There was no Condition of Participation Document at the time.

If you can't get a refund do let the people on this site know. The lawyer employed by JZK Inc. states that the document is a "mere acknowledgement" and implying it is not lawfully binding. Someone on this site is getting attorney's to investigate such claims.

Part of the healing process is to stand up for your rights.

CONDITIONS OF PARTICIPATION

Ramtha’s School of Enlightenment, a division of JZK, Inc. (the "School") is pleased to have you participate in the teachings of Ramtha so long as you make a solemn covenant to abide by these conditions of participation. These conditions apply to students, teachers and other participants in the School. Therefore, as a condition to your participation you must agree to the following:
1. The information and techniques taught here are for your knowledge only. You are licensed to use this information and techniques for your personal use only. You are not authorized to teach or otherwise disseminate through speeches, books, articles, media interviews, or other forms of mass or group distribution (collectively, to "Teach or Disseminate") any information that you learn or teach at the School. By signing these Conditions of Participation you agree not to, directly or indirectly, Teach or Disseminate to others the information and/or techniques that you teach or learn here without the prior written consent of the School, nor shall you assist or facilitate other persons in their dea1ing or dissemination of these matters to others without the prior written consent of the School.
Initials: ______



2. The materials provided to you at the School have been copyrighted. You are not authorized to copy, reproduce, prepare adaptations, publicly distribute, publicly perform, or publicly display any of those materials without the prior written consent of the School. All School events are routinely recorded on audiotapes and archived under the registered trademark RAMTHA DIALOGUES®. RAMTHA DIALOGUES® serves as a historica1 record of the teachings of Ramtha. Portions of those recorded teachings have also been reproduced in various print and other media with the express permission of JZ Knight and a1so form a part of the historical record. By signing these Conditions of Participation. you agree that you will not attribute to Ramtha any statement that is not part of that record. You further agree not to Teach or Disseminate anything you BELIEVE you received from Ramtha in a dream, a vision or discipline, or any other source.
Initials: _____


3. At all its events, the School seeks to maintain a relaxed and dignified atmosphere, free from commercial and other distractions; therefore you agree not to make commercial or private/ personal solicitations of any kind at School events. This includes solicitations for any business in which you may be invo1ved outside of the School and so1icitatious for payment of your tuition at the School. Any student violating this condition will be asked to leave the event immediately without refund of tuition paid to the School for that event.
Initials:_____

4. Ramtha employs interactive methods of teaching that carry a risk of injury to participants. While the School strives to provide a safe environment that will encourage the mastery of Ramtha's teachings by students. students assume the risk of injury involved with Fieldwork™, the Tank® [a.k.a. the Labyrinth) and any other activity at the School. By signing these Conditions of Participation, you acknowledge that these activities may require physical agi1ity, stamina, and coordination. Further, tbe participants involved in Fieldwork™ and the Tank® are often blindfolded. Accidents can occur because you and others arc blindfolded or simply because of the interaction with others or the strenuous activity. To induce the School to allow you to participate in Fieldwork™ and the Tank®, you represent that you are physically capable of performing both. Although participation in Fieldwork™ and the Tank® is encouraged, it is not required. If you do participate in Fieldwork™ and the Tank®, you agree to exercise reasonable caution and prudence while taking part in these activities. Participation in other events and activities also involve interaction with others, and accidents can occur because of the neg1igence of you, the other participants, or even the leaders. In any case, for all of the activities at the School or any School-sponsored event you hereby release JZK, lnc. and its employees and Agents of all liability for damages and injuries you incur while participating at such events, except for
JZK, lnc.’s gross negligence.
Initials:_____

5. Events and their participants are regularly photographed. and videotaped by the School staff. These images, whether videotaped or captured by still photography, may be used by JZK, Inc. in literature, sales products (videos), press releases, Internet postings or School promotions.
Any image photographed of you while at the School or a School-sponsored event may be used at a later time without notice to you or consent by you. You understand and agree that JZK, Inc. will not be required to give you prior notice before such an image is released or used.
Initials:_____


6. The School/JZK, Inc. has the right to refuse any person admission or enrollment, except as may be prohibited by law. All events are nonrefundable unless the event is cancelled by JZK., Inc.
Initials:_____


7. These Conditions of Participation will remain in effect and enforceable for the life of JZ Knight, plus 21 years. Inasmuch as a
violation of these conditions would cause damage to the School in an amount that is difficult or impossible to estimate, you agree that these conditions may be enforced by equitable proceedings, including court injunction. Further, you agree that all income you receive from activities in violation of these Conditions of Participation will be paid to JZK, Inc. as compensation for the damages that JZK, Inc. incurs because of such breach (whether JZK, Inc. can establish the amount of such damages), unless JZK, Inc. can establish that its damages are greater than this amount. Initials:____

If you are unable to agree with these conditions and you have already paid your admission fee. JZK, Inc. will refund your payment.


I hereby agree to be bound by the foregoing Conditions of Participation, as witnessed by my signature below.


Print your full legal name


Signature


Physical address


Today's date


City and State

Postal Code and Country


Received By


Parent/Legal Guardian Form


If you are a parent or legal guardian of a child under the age of eighteen years who will be a participant in the School, please complete the following:
I hereby grant permission for each of my below-named children/wards to participate in the School and agree that each shall also be bound by the above stated conditions of participation. I affirm that I have the legal authority to grant such permission for my children/wards. I further agree that if the release of liability contained in section 4 is not enforceable against a child or ward. or if the child or ward violates any of the other Conditions of Participation, then the undersigned hereby agrees to indemnify and hold the School and JZK, Inc. harmless for any claims and liabilities (including attorney fees) in connection with claims made by such child or ward against the School or JZK, Inc., and for the damages that the School or JZK, Inc. incurs because of the failure of the child or ward to comply with the Conditions of Participation. The names, relationships to me, and dates of birth of my children/wards who will be participating are:


Name


Relationship.


Date of birth

In addition Kathleen, RSE keeps a record of all attendances at events. I know because in 2005 they told me their rcords showed I last attended in 1994. Thus your name ought to be on their database.

I attended an event in 1989 in Colorado. We paid for a fortnights education and food and lodgings at the YMCA. There was a bomb threat on JZ's life and a small portion of the event continued back at JZ Knight's place. The attendees never got the money back for the non provided food and lodgings, nor the greatly reduced tuition.

Many people were very angry. A lot left the school after that. There was no legal document to sign at that point.

MOST ANGRY PEOPLE CONCLUDED THEY CREATED THEIR REALITY AND THE ORGANIZATION CREATED THEIRS.

I do not know of anyone who stood up for their rights and took RSE to task. Most were already brainwashed into "letting it go."

Kathleen,
Recovery on all levels can be rough but you have good company on this forum. Recovery of funds demands a knowledge of the law and that may mean hiring a lawyer and feeling strong enough to withstand counter argument and pressure to drop it. I would think recovery of fees for a session should be easy with proper guidance. Suing the group is another story. Most ex-members I know that sued similar "cults" ended up settling out of court (hush money) even if they had a good case and the fortitude and support to withstand years of effort. I knew one lady who recovered 36,000 and court costs from that group that some movie stars join for 'auditing'. She took me for a ride in her new Lexus!
All that aside, sounds like your first order of business is feeling as well and whole as you can. There are some good options. contact me if you wish.
Joe

Kathleen,

Congratulations on posting here. You made me smile because I did a similar thing a year to two ago. I found FACTNet and I read the posts for days on end, until the wee hours of the morning.

It was the largest "jump" in my "going back home" that has occurred to me. I had trouble sleeping, because my thoughts were reviewing so many things from years of involvement. Comparing that to what I was reading on FACTNet. Comparing it to what former students (many of whom were in the inner RSE circle) were talking to me about as I was put in contact with them, personally, told me. The pieces to the puzzles/questions were fitting together and the scene wasn't pretty. Ouch.

I dealt with the OUCH for months. I withdrew from everyone and everything, for the most part. I cried a LOT. I felt a numb feeling. I lost my appetite. All symptoms of depression, and I am NOT a person who suffers from clinical depression ! I'm a very happy person, with a happy life. But, I was stunned, betrayed, hurt, ashamed, embarrassed, ...and...then, I was ANGRY. Not so much at myself, because I knew I was there as a SINCERE student. I am highly intuitive and I believed when the teachings said they could offer me much more, I was open to there being "more". I sure figured my hefty dose of intuitive abilities wasn't the end all of what human potential was ! Therein lay my vulnerability. My foolishness was for not investigating deeper into the background/history of what I was becoming lured into. For that, I do forgive myself, because my INTENT was pure and sincere. I can't fault myself for that.

I say these things because I figure I'm pretty much an average bear, and you have probably read these words and see yourself, too. You're NOT alone. It may feel like it right now, but you will slowly come right back home for sure. You'll have NEW growth on many levels, like many of us. While we may have scars from our battle wounds, the one thing we will always have, is ourselves. Having a free mind is an enlightenment all it's own.

I've been reading a book called Take Back Your Life by Janja Lilich. It's a great resource for explaining what you've been through, and giving it a perspective that is empowering for you.

Like you, I read posts, got full to the brim from it, went through my grieving process, and along that line, I found the courage to start posting. Nobody struck me with lightening, or anyone else on here. It's a great forum with some genuinely concerned, caring, compassionate people who do have the well being of former students at heart.

Welcome home to YOUR heart .

Another great thread...thanks to all posters.

Whatcha

Kathleen,
Yes, "information overload" someone said, this is so much to find perspective thru. Trust yourself, you will go "Home" it's a guarantee. We ARE those Gods/Goddesses that we were so hoping to find when we came to these teachings and even though it may feel like the bottom fell out of your life, it was a FALSE bottom and you are safely held for all time within the genuine goodness of your own sweet heart, you'll see.

Re: Whatcha
"but you will slowly come right back home for sure. You'll have NEW growth on many levels, like many of us. "

The new "growth" from this phase is SO SOLID you may come to see the whole thing as one of the greatest "teachings" you ever signed on for, perhaps unbeknownst (sp???) to you!

We must of been on the same "neuronet"- same experience!
Why do we do this stuff to expand and become greater and
end up soooo contracted spinning on a hamster wheel,or is that a ramster
wheel?
What's with the come back for more to "GET IT" and the teachers saying this are not displaying this?

So what's with killing off the Joe "Goose that laid the golden egg" Dispenza?
His performance in "What the *#&*#" attracted lots of new students?
All for now, just happy I won't be cold and getting all blue at college this month.'

Joe Szimhart, Great to have you posting. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

To remedy the feeling of being disconnected participate in any grounding activity. A grounding activity is one that uses the body and requires concentration. For example, gardening, working with tools, sewing, cooking from a recipe, dancing to a routine, aerobics exercises, anything that requires both the body and mind to function. Even shopping can be a grounding activity if you are looking for something in particular and not just browsing. Cleaning out a closet, playing with children, painting a room will all do it. What is confusion and lethargy? The brain and body in neutral. Get up and get going. JUST DO IT

Good advice about staying grounded with real projects and work, excercise and small chunks of information at a time in the recovery process to alleviate and avoid depressive states and anxiety. It can get quite overwhelming. Stay away from alcohol, or if you won't, keep it one drink---and I do not mean a 40 oz malt liquor. Reliance on a non-prescribed drug like alcohol only delays recovery.
One site some of you may already know is run by the International Cultic Studies Association (formerly American Family Foundation) is useful for ex-members of any cultic group.

Someone on this message board mentioned Sogyal Rinpoche. Bad, bad actor as a guru no matter what pithy things came out of his mouth. I really disliked his "Tibetan Book of Living and Dying"--and someone wrote it for him. In the 1990s I communicated with two of the women that he sexually abused. There was major lawsuit that brought out his sordid history. The suit was settled in 1996.

Unfortunately, most of the "celibate" new eastern cult gurus have a history of "secret" sexual manipulation of women. The sorry fact is that you will be hard put to find one that is not on that list.

Joe

"To remedy the feeling of being disconnected participate in any grounding activity. A grounding activity is one that uses the body and requires concentration. For example, gardening, working with tools, sewing, cooking from a recipe, dancing to a routine, aerobics exercises, anything that requires both the body and mind to function."

Thank you eyeswideopen - that is what i started to do - my guidance said - "focus on something! anything! - so i did - i rearranged my whole office and started cleaning out closets etc- i found every time i would clean or focus on activity and do it i felt much better - yessssssssssssssssss....thank you so much -

I like Kathleen, experienced the disorientaion, didn't want to get out of bed and I am usually up with the sun and lack of motivation. My guidance also told me to connect with people and make new friends and mingle with non-retreat people. I too had a lot of red flags come up at a retreat. When I came home after the retreat I was so angry, that my friends who had accepted my daily speech of "well, ramtha said this and on this Cd he said that", were really surprised - I think I already knew at the retreat that this wasn't the path I wanted to take. Something didn't feel right to me - and I always trust my inner knowings and feelings.

I observed that the "hook" was finding your card - those who had came to the retreat who didn't seem too happy suddenly were alive, happy, friendly and got into the teachings because they found their cards - they were "special" - I know a few people wanted to leave but changed their minds when they found their cards - finding your cards was a "high" - it kept you there.

Thank you to all you people for standing up and sharing with all of us who had questions about RSE - I have much to say and will as I go along -

***** You further agree not to Teach or Disseminate anything you BELIEVE you received from Ramtha in a dream, a vision or discipline, or any other source.
*****************************************************

This is AMAZING.... so, you pay money to go to a school to learn and expand your mind and reality... yet you can not teach or tell anyone about your Self-REalizations or Enlightenment.

LOL... this is ONE WAY... to keep the students from out shining the teacher, the Ram or JZ.

Manipulation...
Control...
Fear....

And does JZ Create her own REALITY.

Wink

Following up on Joe Szimhart's comments concerning eastern gurus, much can be learned from cult buster and Professor of Philosophy and Religion, David Lane.
http://elearn.mtsac.edu/dlane

7. These Conditions of Participation will remain in effect and enforceable for the life of JZ Knight, plus 21 years.


Has anyone on this site ever heard of any contract that lasts 21 years after someone's death ?

Yes, and would you spend money to go to college and then not be able to USE what you learned in your day to day expression of life.

This is absolutely crazy.

DO the masses just sign on the dotted line... I would have my attorney REVIEW IT prior to school

As is mentioned on the new thread that started (I don't have time to post more now), I think Christel has hit upon a truth. As have others on this thread.
Perhaps at a subconscious level students know they must choose between being the followers or as Wolfman said so well elsewhere, INDIVIDUALS, and it can't be both ways.

Students are held by a very tight rope of control and suppression, believing all the while that they are free thinkers ! Let's think about how free one can be when they are required to cite, exactly what the teacher has just taught, every so many minutes, to a partner. The audience is told that if their partner is not reciting properly and not focused, to GET UP AND LEAVE THEM AND GET ANOTHER PARTNER.

As for JZ's gag order running out 21 years after her DEATH........her DEATH????

I'm so confused (not really). We were told she was going to ascend, and so were many of us.

We were told in one audience not long ago that I was in, with hundreds of people,that we had ALL made it to 500 years in the future.

.............. rolling my eyes at the insanity of it all..........

I could go bang my head against a wall that I ever believed this stuff...smile...but I think I've gotten too many headaches doing that, already.

Skipping merrily along

Jackson, Do you mean "yes, you have heard of such a contract?" I have not. If you have could you elaborate?

yes, the masses sign on the dotted line - i did - i knew I would not get a refund nor could transfer my money to another retreat at another date plus I had alreay spent money for airfare, car rental etc to get to the retreat - what would you do???? They give you the forms to sign the day you are checking in - if i had got the form before i sent in my money i would not have done it - i do not like signing legal documents with a lawyer reading it.

i did a remote view - RSE is going to crash - if consciousnes and energy create reality, and if we are all not happy with RSE, doesn't that reality have to manifest somewhere??

my mind likes to wander - has anyone seen the movie "Sybil"?? I think I read somewhere once, that if an mutliple personality takes over the body, everything in that body changes like it is a different person - could that have been why the tests done on her showed she was someone else?? just wondering.............

21 years gives JZ the "time" to reincarnate (pretty quickly I might add) grow up, and be of legal age to take over the kingdom again. Its like a back-up plan, makes sense to me, why risk ascention and having to find an appropriate channel to work thru, JZ already knows how much trouble the Ram must has had with that route.
as for the thread topic, "Wanna Go Home" We came to these teachings for that reason, and each in our own way IS doing just that, its pretty miraculous.

Marching on Within, The following is a component of my objection to the Attorney General:

2. In February 2006 students belonging to the group called the Blue College were presented the latest version of “Conditions of Participation” document to sign. It was a mandatory event in order to remain a student in that group. Students come from all over the USA and many other countries. RSE has students in 26 countries. Students were presented with this document to sign at the RSE headquarters in Yelm without prior notification.
Someone coming from abroad is hardly likely to refuse to sign it if they have paid $2,500 for an airfare plus travelling expenses. It can cost up to this much coming from Australia.
If they object to the content they really have little choice but to sign. People take vacation from work to attend. If they want to attend the school they also have little choice but to sign as students have no input into the document at all and yet RSE is frequently presented as “our school” as though the administration is facilitating for the sole benefit of the student. I would consider this method of presentation is most probably unlawful.

Some of the contents of this document I would suspect are against the US constitution that grants the right of free speech. I do not know enough about US law. By signing the document the student agrees to adhere to all of the conditions stated until 21 years after the death of J.Z. Knight. That alone would imply to me that the whole thing is unlawful and perhaps null and void.


This is the response to this section by Mr. Kaukl, the lawyer employed by JZK Inc.


(2) Requirement that students execute a confidentiality agreement. The confidentiality agreement merely requests that students acknowledge that certain materials provided them are protected by copyright and registered trademarks. Like any other person possessing valuable intellectual property
rights, Ms. Knight is entitled to protect those rights. Far from being a questionable practice, this is a norm that permeates all industries that deal in intellectual property.

He implies that is is not a legally binding document but a mere acknowledgement.

This is Mr. Kaukl's response regarding refunds :

(3) No refund or event transfer policy.
The School's policies regarding refunds and transfers are clearly stated in all promotional materials. Ms. Knight is entitled to set these policies in any manner
she sees fit. The student is entitled to elect not to attend if the he or she finds the policy offensive.

No respect for the customer and no code of ethical business practice. Mr. Kaukl no doubt has such enthusiasm in his day when Ms. Knight or her representatives are at his door.........with an open check book.

Here is another component of my objection.

6. It is quite questionable where the enormous amount of income from student attendance goes. It was stated at an event I attended in 2005 that two of the five teachers appointed by Ramtha to teach the Beginning classes were not paid. I have heard from someone that was briefly employed that staff is not well paid. Over the years there has been little improvement in student facilities and they are in fact quite inadequate for the numbers attending on most occasions. J.Z. Knight has several businesses of which RSE is a subsidiary. She owns a large amount of real estate in the vicinity of Yelm unknown to most students. (See Attachment B.) I for one would like to know where all of the money goes.

Her is Mr. Kaukl's response:

(4) I want to know where all the money goes.
Ms. Ricke objects to the amounts of revenue generated by the events, has heard that some employees were not paid, and that Ms. Knight owns several businesses and numerous parcels of real property in the vicinity of her home. She wants the Attorney General to help her discover where the money goes. Ms. Knight's corporation is a private, closely-held corporation. As such neither she nor it are obliged to disclose financial details of its operation. What Ms. Knight does with her money is none of Ms. Ricke's business. I respectfully suggest that it is not the business of the Attorney General, either.

From this extract it does not appear that education is the primary purpose but rather profit making is the primary purpose.

Thanks so much for all your posts. Every one valuable. I've had a fun weekend rejoining myself. Discovered I already have a remarkable life filled with truly extraordinary friends and family. What was I thinking?

The contradictions, discrepancies are now working to the surface like splinters
now that "permission" is OK to trust within. How can we operate w/out trusting our emotions and treat them as naughty addictions to eliminate. Makes me contract and go crazy. How about rising above gender identification to "become" and I chose a womans body to become god? How about jz cancelling her coming to our retreat due to exhaustion, then we are issued a 4 pg high gloss color handout on "JZ KNIGHT'S MEDICAL TRANSFORMATION" DUE TO A SHIFT IN CONSCIOUSNESS". RAMTHA MISSED his live stream due to a power outage, now thats a funny metaphor.

I"m not interested in a refund. I'm counting my blessings I never did meet jz/ram, divine protection is a wonderful companion. The participants are what fed my heart and mind the most, alot of really great people with sincere intentions. I look at it as camp (Hawaii not Yelm) . The teachers were a remote group, would answer ?s if addressed but kinda looked thru you not really present with you. And the white book, early videos are way different.
The cds i listened too after coming home are what disturbed me. Lotta gobbleegoop and very drunk rants, especially a restricted xmas 3 set. Funny how it seemed such a no no to even think all this but a few days ago. Love this forum.

And thanks for the tip on no alcohol, but I realized that didin't work years ago.
Wish I could say the same for organic American spirits- I took the "smoke your fine tobacco literally. Ah now I get to rediscover the many joys of becoming a nonsmoker again. Gives me something to focus on.

Enough for now, Especially thanks for all the laughs. I remember How!

Clarification. I meant how Ramtha sez give up thinking of yourself as a man or woman identity, then
goes on & on how his outrageousness was to blah blah
blah thru a woman's body.

Movin on.

You got it Gal!!!!
Smooooth sailin' from here on out.
SO BE THAT

I'm addressing this from above: "my mind likes to wander - has anyone seen the movie "Sybil"?? I think I read somewhere once, that if an mutliple personality takes over the body, everything in that body changes like it is a different person - could that have been why the tests done on her showed she was someone else?? just wondering"

I worked with so-called "multiples" around 1990. One case was a woman arond 30ish who claimed to be abused when young by a satanic-mormon cult that her father was in----she had maybe 30 "alters" including a "group" she described as hooded with red eyes. Her child alters trusted me the first day, something her therapist said was remarkable! She had an alter that appeared when she worked as a secretary---it was the only one that did not need glasses to see well (she had slight astigmatism) and her allergies seemed to disappear. She had more "energy" as the secretary.

To clarify, I do not believe that "MPD" exists. the disorder has been redefined as Dissociative Identity Disorder. No educated, sane therapist today views the DID person as anything but one person "playing" many roles in response to conditions and stressors. The re-integration of personality is more successful if the therapist stays focused on the reality of this.
In the 1980s many therapists treated the alters almost as if they were separate entities, thus exacerbating the problem.

Those simplistic tests on JZ and her symptoms when she changed to Ramtha are unremarkable. They prove only that humans can make dramatic somatic changes when shifting personality through suggestion or self-suggestion/hypnosis. Duh! We already know all that.
Ernest R. Hilgard's experiments [Divided Consciousness, (NY: John Wiley & Sons, 1977, 1986]in hypnosis demonstrate dramatic changes, for example.

The folks who tested JudyZ should have administered the same tests with traditional shamans, other channelers, DID persons, etc. and compared notes. As a scientist I would want at least a few dozen samples to compare with the JZ result to draw any useful information or conclusions. All they have is "showtime for JZ on stage" results for now.

Joe

I knew a girl who was 3 in one... and YES not only her personality changed... but there whole body took on a different look.

After I watched that movie Sybil... my first thought was perhaps these channells are nothing more than Muliple personality...

In addition, I think it was Jenny ???/ talk show had some of these people on them... and it was AMAZING... YOU COULD call it channneling.

Who knows...
-----------------------------------------------------
"Sybil"?? I think I read somewhere once, that if an mutliple personality takes over the body, everything in that body changes like it is a different person - could that have been why the tests done on her showed she was someone else
-----------------------------------------------------
-

Re: Comments of Marching on Within:

i did a remote view - RSE is going to crash - if consciousnes and energy create reality, and if we are all not happy with RSE, doesn't that reality have to manifest somewhere??


I really enjoy your remote view Marching. I am certain others do likewise.