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I would like to add something here. I am a little scared. Why? Well if Ram really is who he says he is, and of course a part of me still wants to believe, then he knows I am writing this and voicing my concerns and when I am in his audience, will he read my bands and call me out? Will he punish me for not believeing with a bucket of water on my head or an attempted embarrasment on front of the group? Will he send me runners that challenge me beyond my acceptance and strength?
As I write this, I have answered my question. I say, bring it on. Bring on the confrontation. Call me out on my doubt. Push me through the fear. Motivate me to accept. Read me like a book and strip me bare of all the doubt I have by confronting it. I have yet to admit this fear and doubt to anyone who is in the school and my friends who are current Blue College students. If I am called out specifically, I will be glad to stand up and admit my fear and doubt and state my place of acceptance. I will speak for all those who have yet to have a chance to be a voice and ask the tough questions. I CANT be the only one who has these feelings who are actively involved. I will do it for myself but I know others will benefit.
Who knows, maybe i'll get the fortitude to stand up in the middle of one of his teachings and ask anyway!! Whats the worst that can happen? He is a master and a God and shows me the love, understanding and compassion of a realized being and helps me and all the others who are in fear over our ditch. He would make that goat appear. Cure that woman of her need for oxygen so we can watch her jog around the arena, make it snow inside the great hall. Show us the money and then go do some field work and Paradise beach. You would have the most devoted blue college students ever and I bet most of them would eliminate, maybe temprarily, all their fear and achieve the wonderful place of knowledge he speaks of. No one could say ever again he was a fraud because there are 1000 witnesses to the truth. Jesus did it and look how he has influenced the masses over the last 2000 years. Ramtha has self appointed himself as our savior with the practical knowledge of the ancient masters and realized beings. Why would one little "carbon unit here in the boondocks" be a threat to him?
I would be going with his own doctorine of making known the unknown. Why would he critcize that? Yes, it may be proof from the outside in rather than the inside out but I tell you what, if thats what it takes to build this great army he talks about and that is the level of our acceptance, why not do it. He has nothing to loose if he is already acheived this greatness.
Maybe I just will. I think its time someone did!!
You may benifit by reading Liftons criteria for what creates a thought reform enviornment.
One of the criteria "mystical manipulation" is quite well practiced in rse.
ramtha/jz inculcate the belief and feeling in one that supernatural powers reside in them. The power to be in ones head. One cannnot very well accept the teachings without acknowlaging this supernatural power. Problem is all that comes with a price. One part of the price being that one feels that their mind can be accessed by this "entity" While you may find it difficult to comprehend at the present moment, I think if you educate yourself on the mechanics and methods, you might find thier hold will begin to loosen.
below are several differing criteria for what constitutes a mind control or thought reform enviornment These are summaries and should you find them helpful or interesting there is plenty of room for you to search out more information on the subject.
In addition, should you find all of the below too dry. You may want to do a search you can find this book on line it is called 'The psychic Mafia" it is written by a "psychic" who not only admidts their frauds over the years but explains in detail some of the many ways they "produce" experiences for people.
Best of luck to you.
Eight Conditions of Thought Reform
as presented in
Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of "Brainwashing" in China, by Robert Jay Lifton, M.D.; W. W. Norton & Co., Inc., 1963.
Milieu Control: The most basic feature of the thought reform environment, the psychological current upon which all else depends, is the control of human communication. Through this milieu control the totalist environment seeks to establish domain over not ony the individual's communication with the outside (all that he sees and hears, reads and writes, experiences, and expresses), but also -- in its penetration of his inner life -- over what we may speak of as his communication with himself. It creates an atmosphere uncomfortably reminiscent of George Orwell's 1984.... (Page 420.)
Purposeful limitation of all forms of communication with outside world.
The control of human communication through environment control.
The cult doesn't just control communication between people, it also controls people's communication with themselves, in their own minds.
Mystical Manipulation The inevitable next step after milieu control is extensive personal manipulaton. This manipulation assumes a no-holds-barred character, and uses every possible device at the milieu's command, no matter how bizarre or painful. Initiated from above, it seeks to provoke specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that these will appear to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment. This element of planned spontaneity, directed as it is by an ostensibly omniscient group, must assume, for the manipulated, a near-mystical quality. (Page 422.)
Potential convert is convinced of the higher purpose within the special group.
Everyone is manipulating everyone, under the belief that it advances the "ultimate purpose."
Experiences are engineered to appear to be spontaneous, when, in fact, they are contrived to have a deliberate effect.
People mistakenly attribute their experiences to spiritual causes when, in fact, they are concocted by human beings.
The Demand for Purity The experiential world is sharply divided into the pure and the impure, into the absolutely good and the absolutely evil. The good and the pure are of course those ideas, feelings, and actions which are consistent with the totalist ideology and policy; anything else is apt to be relegated to the bad and the impure. Nothing human is immune from the flood of stern moral judgements. (Page 423.)
The philosophical assumption underlying this demand is that absolute purity is attainable, and that anything done to anyone in the name of this purity is ultimately moral.
The cult demands Self-sanctification through Purity.
Only by pushing toward perfection, as the group views goodness, will the recruit be able to contribute.
The demand for purity creates a guilty milieu and a shaming milieu by holding up standards of perfection that no human being can attain.
People are punished and learn to punish themselves for not living up to the group's ideals.
The Cult of Confession Closely related to the demand for absolute purity is an obsession with personal confession. Confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal, and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself. (Page 425.)
Public confessional periods are used to get members to verbalize and discuss their innermost fears and anxieties as well as past imperfections.
The environment demands that personal boundaries are destroyed and that every thought, feeling, or action that does not conform with the group's rules be confessed.
Members have little or no privacy, physically or mentally.
Aura of Sacred Science The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic dogma, holding it out as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the Word, the present bearers of the Word, and the Word itself. While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute "scientific" precision. Thus the ultimate moral vision becomes an ultimate science; and the man who dares to criticize it, or to harbor even unspoken alternative ideas, becomes not only immoral and irreverent, but also "unscientific". In this way, the philosopher kings of modern ideological totalism reinforce their authority by claiming to share in the rich and respected heritage of natural science. (Pages 427-428.)
The cult advances the idea that the cult's laws, rules and regulations are absolute and, therefore, to be followed automatically.
The group's belief is that their dogma is absolutely scientific and morally true.
No alternative viewpoint is allowed.
No questioning of the dogma is permitted.
Loading the Language The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. [Slogans] The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed.
The cult invents a new vocabulary, giving well-known words special new meanings, making them into trite clichés. The clichés become "ultimate terms", either "god terms", representative of ultimate good, or "devil terms", representative of ultimate evil. Totalist language, then, is repetitiously centered on all-encompassing jargon, prematurely abstract, highly categorical, relentlessly judging, and to anyone but its most devoted advocate, deadly dull: the language of non-thought. (Page 429.)
Controlling words helps to control people's thoughts.
The group uses black-or-white thinking and thought-terminating clichés.
The special words constrict rather than expand human understanding.
Non-members cannot simply comprehend what cult members are talking about.
Doctrine over Person Another characteristic feature of ideological totalism: the subordination of human experience to the claims of doctrine. (Page 430.)
Past experience and values are invalid if they conflict with the new cult morality.
The value of individuals is insignificant when compared to the value of the group.
Past historical events are retrospectively altered, wholly rewritten, or ignored to make them consistent with doctrinal logic.
No matter what a person experiences, it is belief in the dogma which is important.
Group belief supersedes individual conscience and integrity.
Dispensed Existence The totalist environment draws a sharp line between those whose right to existence can be recognized, and those who possess no such right.
Lifton gave a Communist example: In thought reform, as in Chinese Communist practice generally, the world is divided into "the people" (defined as "the working class, the peasant class, the petite bourgeoisie, and the national bourgeoisie"), and "the reactionaries" or "the lackies of imperialism" (defined as "the landlord class, the bureaucratic capitalist class, and the KMT reactionaries and their henchmen"). (Page 433.)
The group decides who has a right to exist and who does not.
The group has an elitist world view -- a sharp line is drawn by cult between those who have been saved, chosen, etc. (the cult members) and those who are lost, in the dark, etc., (the rest of the world).
Former members are seen as "weak, " "lost," "evil," and "the enemy".
The cult insists that there is no legitimate alternative to membership in the cult.
Criteria for Thought Reform ("Brainwashing"):
A Comparison of Theories
Robert Jay Lifton (Themes) Margaret Thaler Singer (Conditions) Edgar H. Schein (Stages)
Milieu control (environment, medium, or condition)
Loading the language (special vocabulary)
Self-sanctification through Purity (demand for purity)
Aura of Sacred science
Doctrine over Person
Control recruit's time and/or physical environment.
Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, guilt, and dependency.
Suppress much of recruit's old behavior, attitudes, and/or beliefs
Implement group doctrine over person's beliefs
Dispense existence -- enforce a closed system of logic
Keep the person unaware of what is going on and the changes taking place.
Instill new behavior and attitudes:
Allow little input or criticism from recruit while refreezing.
A detailed synopsis of the "changing" process.
From: Cults in Our Midst: How They Capture Individuals, Families, and the Workplace by Margaret Thaler Singer with Janja Lalich, page 63.
Marks of a Destructive Cult
Mind Control (undue influence) Manipulation by the use of coercive persuasion or behavior modification techniques without informed consent.
Charismatic Leadership Claiming divinity or special knowledge and demanding unquestioning obedience with power and privilege. Leadership may consist of one individual or a core of leaders.
Deception Recruiting and fundraising with hidden objectives and without full disclosure.
Exclusivity Secretiveness or vagueness by followers regarding activities or beliefs.
Alienation Separation from family, friends, society, a change in values and substitution of the cult as the "new family"; evidence of subtle or abrupt personality changes.
Exploitation Can be financial, physical, psychological; pressure to give money, to spend a great deal on courses or give excessively to special projects and to engage in inappropriate sexual activities, or child abuse.
Totalitarian World View Also known as the "we/they" syndrome, effecting dependence, promoting goals of the group over the individual and approving unethical behavior while claiming goodness.
These five steps of mind control were outlined by Edgar H. Schein. His five criteria for a person's "changing" or conforming to the group norm are
mind-altering techniques, and
This is a brief description of each of them:
A new "cult identity" is created and imposed formally in indoctrination sessions as well as informally through personal relations with cult members, tapes, books on group doctrines.
Behavior Modification Techniques
Behavior modification techniques include the reward/punishment cycle, the use of thought-stopping techniques, and the control of environment.
Mystical manipulation is the perception of coincidental or inevitable events as spiritual signs. Recruits are trained that such signs are symbols of the greatness of the group.
Hypnosis, repetition, monotony, and rhythm are often used to numb the thought processes of recruits. These are often carried out through excessive chanting, praying, decreeing, and visions.
Eliciting of Confession
Testimonials and/or confessions are forcibly and continually extracted from recruits as a means of keeping recruits dependent and obedient.
See: Coercive Persuasion: A Socio-psychological Analysis of the "Brainwashing" of American Civilian Prisoners by the Chinese Communists, Edgar H. Schein with Inge Schneier and Curtis H. Barker, New York: W.W. Norton, 1961.
What is a Cult?
For those having difficulty understanding what is a cult and what is not, it is best to keep in mind the idea that cults generally B.I.T.E -- that is, they use:
to obtain and maintain their flock. These four components are guidelines. Although most cults practice these four aspects of mind control, not all will practice them to the extreme.
On Behavior Control
On Information Control
On Thought Control
On Emotional Control
What is the Overall Effect?
What matters most is the overall impact these thought-stop processes have on a recruit's feelings, will, and ability to make personal choices. A person's uniqueness, talents, skills, creativity, and free will should be encouraged and not suppressed in any healthy group. Cult mind control programs seek to mold recruits into the image of the cult leader(s), although the recruits may not be aware of this. This process is called "cloning" from a psychological perspective.
Recruits' "new identities" within a cult are the result of a systematic process that works to dissociate them from their previous identities, including beliefs, values, and significant relationships. The end result is the creation of a dual identity: a dominant "cult identity" that is constantly at war with the subconscious old identity.
*Taken from Steve Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control (Park Street Press, 1988). Visit his web site: http://www.freedomofmind.com"
Behavior control is described as the regulation of one's physical and mental reality. A new recruit is coerced repeatedly to squelch his/her critical-thinking skills and gut instincts in return for group approval and inclusion. Exerting such a control over people allows high-pressure groups to determine most or all of the following:
Where, how, and with whom recruits live and associate.
What clothing, colors, and hairstyles to wear.
Which foods/drinks are accepted or rejected.
How much financial dependence recruits are to have on the group, what percentage of recruits' income is collected for the group's purposes.
How much time is spent on leisure activities such as relaxing, sleeping, leisure activities, and vacationing.
Once behavior control is put into effect, recruits respond and react accordingly. The recruits:
Unwittingly commit themselves to the required indoctrination sessions and group rituals.
Relinquish many personal decision-making processes and go to the group to determine minor and/or major life decisions.
Are required to report all doubts about the group, perceived negative thoughts, personal feelings, and external activities to their superiors.
Undergo endless cycles of verbal and/or physical abuse, then being praised or rewarded. (When husbands do that to wives, it is called The Battered Wife Syndrome.)
Steer clear of individualism and independent thought as group-thought prevails.
Adhere to often unforeseen rigid rules and regulations.
Develop a need for obedience to and dependency on the group
Information control in cults can involve six key elements:
Outside Information Forbidden
Levels of Information
Spying and Survelliance
Cult members will often:
Deliberately withhold information from recruits
Distort information to make it appear acceptable
Lie to obtain their goal
Outside Information Forbidden
Access to information outside of that of the group is minimized or discouraged. These restrictions are set on:
Certain books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV and radio shows that expose the group
Critical information pertaining to the internal problems within the group
Written critiques, letters, editorials, or history of involvements of former members of the group
Levels of Information
Often, and necessarily so within cults, information is compartmentalized. That is, only certain top-notch members are privy to exactly what is happening in the leadership and with the group as a whole. Information pertaining to the group doctrine is fed in small, digestable spoonfuls to new recruits for a reason -- so that they remain ignorant for the time being of the workings of the system. Leaders are seen as possessing what Lifton called "sacred science," or having the ability to decipher and interpret doctrines, philosophies, etc, in a way that no one else has ever done or could ever do.
Information is not freely accessible
Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
Leadership decides who "needs to know" what
Spying and Survelliance
Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership
Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources
Information about "sins" is used to abolish identity boundaries.
Past "sins" are used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution is given.
Here are a few guidelines for thought control:
Need to internalize the group's doctrine as "the truth".
Map = Reality
Good against evil
Us against them (inside versus outside)
Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating cliches"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words". "Thought-terminating cliches" and simplistic slogans stop critical thinking.
Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged. Practice thought-stopping techniques, prevent "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts, and prohibit rational analysis, critical thinking, and constructive criticism:
Denial, rationalization, justification, and wishful thinking.
Chanting, meditating, praying.
Speaking in "tongues".
Singing or humming.
The group is unquestionable. No critical questions about the leader, doctrine, or policy are seen as legitimate.
Exclusivity No alternative belief systems are viewed as legitimate, good, or useful.
Emotional control allows cults to manipulate and narrow the range of a recruit's feelings. The objective of cults is to make recruits think that any doubts about the group is their fault, and never that of the leader(s) or the group. Any negativism toward the group is often misdirected back to the recruit -- causing the recruit to internalize their doubts.
This section contains the following:
Cults induce large amounts of guilt, typically, in association with the following:
Who you are (and why you are not living up to your potential)
Who your family is (those from dysfunctional families are to attribute their dysfunctional past to their not being a member of the group yet; those from well-adjusted familes are to feel guilty for having had it so good)
What secrets lie in your past (sexual history, childhood mistakes, any past criminal involvement is overly emphasized)
With whom you are affiliated (the company you keep, boyfriend / girlfriend / fiancees shunned, family, friends, etc.)
What you think (how you feel, and what you do about your feelings, whether what you think and feel is acceptable to the group)
Social guilt (recruit is made to feel inadequate because of his/her social status)
Historical guilt (recruit is forced to take on the oppression of his/her ancestors and the plight of martyred persons)
In order for guilt induction to successfully operate, cults must be able to instill fear in their followers:
Fear of thinking independently. (Recruits wonder whether they are making right decisions, what the consequences will be if they think independently.)
Fear of the "outside" world. (Recruits have a "we/they" mentality, and generally see all in the group as "saved," while all outside the group are "lost.")
Fear of enemies. (Recruits are indoctrinated to be very paranoid of all those on the outside, including the government, cult awareness groups, and/or society in general.)
Fear of losing salvation. (Recruits are taught that salvation is attained only through group affiliation and nowhere else.)
Fear of being shunned. (Recruits often risk losing family, friends, job, etc. if they decide to leave. Many cults "mark" or otherwise collectively shun former members.)
Fear of disapproval. (Recruits learn to live according to the laws of the leaders, and learn that deviating from these laws is detrimental to the well-being of both oneself and the others in the group.)
Cults often deal in extremes. Here are a few examples of extremism in cults:
Extremes of emotional highs and lows (rewards and punishments go hand-in-hand)
Ritual and often public confessions of sins (confessions provoked and exaggerated by inductor, i.e. a recruit who confesses to having had a few beers is labelled "an alcoholic.")
"We/they" mentality, in which group sees itself as better than the rest of the world, The group sees itself as the only people capable of accurate doctrinal interpretation (also called "sacred science").
Phobia indoctrination is the programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group, or even questioning the leadership's authority. Recruits are manipulated to the extent that they cannot visualize a positive and successful future without being in the group. They are taught that horrific consequences will ensue if they are to leave (i.e., "hell," "demon possession," accidents, suicide, and/or insanity, etc.). Often, former cult members are so confused upon leaving that the group's predictions become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many former cult members have killed themselves because that was exactly what the group said they would do. Those who leave are often shunned and rejected by the group. From the group perspective, there is never a legitimate reason to leave. Those who leave are perceived as "weak," "undiscipled," "unspiritual," "worldly," "brainwashed by family, friends, counselors", and/or seduced by the world of drugs, sex, and rock-and-roll.
HOLY CRAP!!! Thats a LOT of info. I just put on a pot of coffee so Im diggin in.
When I was a current student I met others who had misgivings about how things are at RSE. A friend for many years started in the Elohim group right at the beginning. She has had concerns right throughout her RSE journey. She has been current most of those years. When she attends the next event where Ramtha is so beautiful all her misgivings are reasoned away.
Another student I had frequent contact with stood up to Ramtha in the arena and defied him. This was told to me. I was not present. She did not consider it appropriate the way he was addressing a lady during the truth teachings. On another occasion she was accused of something she did not do by staff and was taken to the stables. She was asked to leave. She told them their accusations were false. It was a 3 day event. She said it was HER school and it could not run without her or all of the other people. She refused to leave. When they gave her back her check she tore it up and put it in Vicki Cady's mouth. She did not leave that event. She was removed from the arena in the prior incident and may have even been told to leave. I am not certain about this.
I have also seen college students, very much in favour of the teachings and JZ, come home from their daily jobs of low pay and unenthusiasm and when they have just had enough the real truth comes out of their mouth. They have misgivings about the whole thing also. Their lives are arduous and unchanging for all of their efforts at their events and in between.
Another student I met worked in a local Yelm area coffee shop. She had been a student for 7 years and knew a lot about the lives of advanced students as they came in for a drink and a chat. She decided to leave RSE as it had made her very poor (she came with money) and there were no appropriate job opportunities for her. (meaning a joy filled labour)
She decided to use her money for doing a hobby that brought her joy instead of paying more money to RSE. Current students were continuously trying to convince her to go back to RSE. She did not observe in any of the lives that there was observable benefit in attendance and she knew a lot of people.
Someone I knew well in the early 90's went to a Secondary Group event and told me someone collapsed on the name field. The staff called out to Ramtha to help assuming he is an all powerful being capable of healing the person. He ignored them and walked right past to the other end of the field.
You are not the only one with concerns.
Didn't mean to overload you. Suit yourself but you may find it more benificial to go through the material in the earlier part of the day. It will more then likely give you much food for thought and the mind in most cases does its best thinking in the earlier part of the day before all of the days issues pile up.
THANK-YOU christel and journey for your responses.
It means a lot to me you are taking the time to put together your info and typed responses.
Truth-seeker, were you able to ask Ramtha your questions? Did you attend the last Blue College or did you decide not to go?
Truthseeker didn't go
May I ask how it is you think I went or not or have the place to speak on my behalf? How do you KNOW?
Current Student Seeks Proof PART 2
'I would like to add something here. I am a little scared. Why? Well if Ram really is who he says he is, and of course a part of me still wants to believe, then he knows I am writing this and voicing my concerns and when I am in his audience, will he read my bands and call me out? Will he punish me for not believeing with a bucket of water on my head or an attempted embarrasment on front of the group? Will he send me runners that challenge me beyond my acceptance and strength?'
'As I write this, I have answered my question.'
What you have written is what in my opinion is enlightenment. To me, the idea of another entity reading me or my mind had me policing my own thoughts. Wait, I thought. I'm a divine being, for God is within everything and everyone. When I broke out of the telescoping god eye in the sky god-institutionalized religion, I was out of the cage. Then I found myself doing the same thing by policing my thoughts and believing that yet another could access and call me out on my innermost thoughts? So in essence i experienced one cage for another. Maybe I should use 'Houdini" as my name.
it then came to me, would I have watched and done nothing about the WWII atrocities? Was my recent behavior at rse not pretty much the same idea? A herd.
'you shall not pass' is our own higher self power. I use my own power and will, and no one or thing shall pass without my allowing it on every level. Full stop.