Many of the ideas "Ramtha" is presenting as “enlightenment” are ideas that are commonplace on this earth. A truly enlightened being could hardly be concluded to behave as a human, namely judging, accusing and misusing other people.....to sum it up a victim.

The foul language, excessive drinking, “revealing the truth” …. namely airing everyone’s dirty laundry in public….. and debased ideas is not uplifting the human spirit but rather putting it further into the murk and the mire. But the teacher knows best doesn’t he?

Perhaps the teacher himself is CONTROLLED. Wouldn’t that be a shock to the collective to find out that the teacher was perhaps at the mercy of the vote of a corrupt committee he is a member of?

Ramtha has stated in the very early years of RSE that there was a vote in the consortium in the ethers as to whether this earth would be allowed to continue or not. He stated that the vote of the consortium was equal and he had the deciding vote. There is no proof of this whatsoever of course. The consortium, if they exist, hide behind invisible masks. Ramtha has stated at an event I attended, "Welcome overlords." Everyone in their usual brainwashed style cheered of course. The term itself implies a "domination over" ....... certainly not a relationship of mutual respect.

If they exist then the statement given forth is plain enough that at least half of the consortium were not on the side of the students, or the earth. If they have the vote then perhaps that could explain the split presentation on the podium. The "Ramtha" presented on the stage certainly exhibits characteristics that are almost like a split personality on occasions.

At some events no filth comes out of the mouth and there are no wine ceremonies or debased "truths" revealed and at other times the filth spews out.

The point being students really do not know who is pulling the strings on the puppet. There is no sufficient substantiation who is using the body. There is plenty of substantiation that the being giving the exhibition has plenty of commonplace human characterisitcs.

If an ascended being has the capacity to animate another’s body there is no certainty that someone else is not using the body on some occasions.

Gullible people are easily misled. When a presentation is quite obviously against common sense it is wise to have rational discernment.

For all of those who think their knowingness is supreme here is a true story.

Two students of RSE lived next door to one another. One had a long history of spiritual involvement. The other had been a student of RSE for some years. The latter was going away for a holiday and asked the other to water the garden in her absence. The former agreed.
Upon return the holiday maker accused the other of not watering her garden at all. The other claimed she did and said, "Your knowingness is not always correct you know." The holday maker said it had nothing to do with her knowingness but everything to do with her brick.
She did not trust the other and put a house brick on the hose that would fall off if it was moved........

Whose knowingness knows with certainty the puppeteer behind the mask?

"She did not trust the other and put a house brick on the hose that would fall off if it was moved........"

Christel, I had to read that a few times until I finally got it..
sure gave me a chuckle..

I once asked a "Master" what was the greater…the thought… or the action of the thought?
The thought.. he replied..
Why I asked..
Because thought creates reality….
I then asked..
If you were sitting by a riverbank doing your focus and you noticed a wee child swept along and drowning in front of you, what is greater your thought of saving the child or the action of saving the child?
The Thought…he again replied,
I asked,
What happens if while you were just thinking of saving the child, the child drowns?
He replied.. That child created it’s own reality..

This whole “Consciousness and Energy creates the Nature of Reality” mantic mindset
is nonsense when I really got to think about it..
For instance it can be said with just as much meaningful meaningless..
Energy and Consciousness creates the Nature of Reality..
Or
Reality and Consciousness Creates the Nature of Energy..
How about..
Nature and Energy Creates the Consciousness of Reality..
I think I will copyright that one..

This whole notion and mindset that we alone create our reality is utter nonsense….
Unspiritual and unenlightened….

in my opinion….

David.

Re:
"She did not trust the other and put a house brick on the hose that would fall off if it was moved........"

You are far more likely to find what you are looking for ...what a set-up, why ask someone you dont trust to do something for you so you can "catch" them at what you already believe them to BE? Sure sounds like some higher consciousness there!

They both lived in a reasonably remote area where there aren't too mmany neighbours.

Oh... Yes, Ive been in that situation also.

David, If one's consciousness and energy really did create the nature of one's own reality then it cannot be concluded that many tyrants of the world get away with what they do for very long periods of time, or even their entire lifetime and many RSE students live lives of slavery and servitutude.

Some tyrants do get caught up with. Many do not. They know how to work the laws for personal profit. Teenagers in this country are running amok terrorizing towns and the law can't get them because they are children. If they create reality and they are destructive and cruel people then why don't they magnetize their demise?

There are many corporate thieves living very affluent lifestyles. Presumably they are thick in their altered ago's as they have not had the benefit of enlightenment and yet they continue to profit whilst the town of Yelm is generally very poor. Now RSE has to call itself "RSE International" because of it. The dollars are running out on home soil.

The Yelm locals are always objecting to something like Walmart, or Nascar. If consciouness and energy creating their reality truly worked those corporations would not be considering putting their business there in the first place.

Perhaps that is a very good question to ask the teacher. The teacher apparently creates his own reality. Why then are these businesses that are unwanted by RSE in a position of local dominance in the first place. Wonder what answer the Code of Excuses will come up with. Why does the teacher not get rid of them? He is after all a master of formulating the material world. Wonder if any INTELLIGENT, CREDIBLE answer will be given?

If consciouness and energy create the nature of reality then it certainly does not appear to be the consciouness of the students, or the common man/woman.

There are an enormous number of ascended beings on the consumer market. They have been around en masse for some time now. They all claim to benefit humanity.
There is no observation on this planet that there is any value to what any of them are doing. Any benefits to humanity are the human efforts of people that have always existed.

Many of these ascended beings and their mortally run organizations take an enormous amount of money from their members one way or another.

There is no proof that any of them exist. They all run on blind belief just like religion. It is just a new version for those that have had enough of the church.

In Gene Roddenbury's (creator of Star Trek) movies called "Earth, The Final Conflict", the Taelons, an advanced species, with superior technology and abilities, arrive on earth with offerings of peace and assistance to humanity. Most of humanity accepts this and are delighted at their presence. Many are infatuated with them and worship them. A relative few are suspiscious. In reality there is an agenda to dominate the earth. Perhaps Sci Fi is not so far fetched.

Certainly the consumer market of benevolent ascended beings is not producing any visible results anywhere.

Re: Christel
Quotes
"There is no observation on this planet that there is any value to what any of them are doing."

"Certainly the consumer market of benevolent ascended beings is not producing any visible results anywhere."

Because YOU have recieved no benifits, seen no value, had any "visible" results, etc., really doesn't mean there is "NO OBSERVATION ON THE PLANET" nor does YOUR lack prove with CERTAINTY that there are no "VISIBLE RESULTS ANYWHERE"

What are there here 5-7 people on this web-site? Posting regularly, some who post ENTIRE threads by themselves, going on and on and on and on and on about how it all sucks, we've all been duped, wha wha wha...
Have you ever wondered just what all those OTHER PEOPLE who are not posting here who are paying their money and/or doing their seminars, writing their books or purchasing those books, meeting in study groups,speaking, performing healing therapies,moving forward, moving beyond old thought systems...people who are happy and feel as if their life is ACTUALLY GOOD, have you ever wondered AT ALL what's going on with them??????????
I suppose, according to you and those who think like you, we're all a bunch of idiot zombies, following gurus around with rings in our noses, all part of some brain-washed cult who need to somehow pull ourselves out of the position of being used, duped, taken, so we can join you in the ranks of all the VICTUMS. WOW! Now there's a FUN idea!!! That'll feel great!!!!!


Quote: "Many of these ascended beings and their mortally run organizations take an enormous amount of money from their members one way or another."

Speaking FOR MYSELF, nobody TOOK my money, I willingly paid to attend all events I have participated in, I willingly BOUGHT whatever I have because I WANTED to. Just like when you go to a restaurant and order something new you've never had before, sometimes you like what you get and you'd order it agian, sometimes you don't and won't. THAT'S WHY THERE"S CONTRAST so you can CHOOSE.

Have you noticed the threads just kind of dying out here... Spring is in the air, (most)people WANT to be happy to see the poitive aspects of this gift called life, many of us ARE on a grand adventure and ARE becoming enlightened and FREE, that was the POINT of this website, WASN'T IT???????
Do you want to be FREE or do you just want to be RIGHT?????

"With enough attention to anything, the essence of what you have given thought to will eventually become a physical manifestation. And then as others give attention to it, they help it expand. In time, this manifestation, whether WANTED or NOT, is called Truth... Deliberate Creation is about deliberately choosing those experiences you make YOUR truths."

"There is no condition so severe that you cannot reverse it by choosing different thoughts.HOWEVER, choosing different thoughts requires focus and practice. If you continue to focus as you have been, to think as you have been, and to believe as you have been, then NOTHING in your experience will change."

Abraham thru Esther Hicks

I'm feeling like ," Oh that's enough, why bother, just forget it, no-one here is really interested in having a different perspective..."
BUT then I remember reading posts on this site that are PAGES and PAGES and VOLUMES long, diatribes actually, monologs going off on some twisted tangent forEVER... so HEY "WHO CARES??"

This thread is about "WHO is the manipulator on the podium?"
I can actually envision some of the posters here standing at their OWN podium as they post. I SURE feel that I am a legend in MY OWN LIVING ROOM!
Getting "Enlightened" and "Free" (in my book)doesn't involve sucking everyone into the toilet with me and eating poop, talking about poop, studying poop, pointing out the poop, poop-poop-pooping all the way... then watching us all go down the SEWER togther so content that we're not alone in our misery.
YUK!
Oh well! Thats' my nickel's worth! Have a nice day!!!

P.S.
"Vitriol toward ANY group or individual is uncalled for & may result in a deleted post, and possibly being banned from further posting"

What exactly does the word ANY imply here???
There are posts that were deleted, 11:11's for example, that didn't follow the basic "How we got screwed over" slant. I dont know how many other were taken out because they didnt go with the operating paradigm here...
Isnt that a bit ONE SIDED?? Kind of like what we accuse JZ of doing to US?? Sure feels the same to me.
Yet... there are posts left ON the website that are
VITRIOLIC CONSTANTLY towards; Teachings,People,even IDEAS that have to do with being ENLIGHTENED and FREE!!!
so... WHO is the maipulator and just WHAT podium are we talking about????

Wow Dance The wind, I feel that you really are turning the page This time you really made ME smile Your poop story struck a deep chord of laughter and glee, right into the heart of the little kid inside of me It's my turn to thank you for adding a burst of sunshine to my day !!!!!!! Hope that you will stick around, maybe we can add some light-hearted joy to this place

Hugs to you, and to all others who would like one

DanceTheWind…

Share with us..
but please refrain from what "in my opinion" comes across as a constant attitude of trying to "teach" something... to the rest of us poor RSE victims.
Save that for your book.

To address your concerns regarding the deleted post's…

Quote.
There are posts that were deleted, 11:11's for example, that didn't follow the basic "How we got screwed over" slant. I dont know how many other were taken out because they didnt go with the operating paradigm here...
Isnt that a bit ONE SIDED?? Kind of like what we accuse JZ of doing to US??

DanceTheWind…
There have been two post's deleted so far…
One was a verbal attack By 11.11 on a fellow poster.
The other was deleted because a personal email sent to NYK was posted without my permission.
No poster has been banned.

You question the “operating paradigm” of our ELF website,
Here is a reminder…

WHAT IS 'ENLIGHTEN ME FREE' FOR? THE PURPOSE
The Enlighten Me Free (EMF) website has been created, in part, to make public some questions regarding the authenticity of the alleged channeling of the entity "Ramtha."
We are former students of Ramtha�s School of Enlightenment (RSE) from various worldwide locations who have come to seriously question whether "Ramtha" is real and whether or not the whole concept of "channeling" as it exists within the New Age movement is valid.
Our primary purpose with this website is to provide an online support community. Within it we will provide space for networking, educational information, opinion sharing, asking questions, and sharing of facts. There are also ongoing physical support meetings with L.A.R.S.E. (Life After RSE) participants. We welcome participation from people who have also been affected with doubts from experiences connected to RSE.
If you are a current, former, or prospective student of �Ramtha� and have no doubts or issues about his "teachings", then this may not be the place for you. The information provided on this site is the observation and/or opinion of the writers. EMF & L.A.R.S.E. are independent and have no affiliation with JZK, Inc., or Ramtha�s School of Enlightenment. Please read the disclaimer page.


DanceTheWind…

Regarding this thread.. “Who is the manipulator on the podium ?”
“in my opinion”.. Christel posted some salient questions regarding “Ramtha’s” teachings while also questioning the whole notion of Christ beings and ascended master as spiritually beneficial in our lives and society as a whole.
I will post my thoughts on this thread when I have more time.


DanceTheWind…
I hope you reconsider your attitude towards the other posters on this forum, That you take the time to sincerely consider the questions and information being presented here and respond with a dash more thoughtfulness, empathy and understanding.
If you vehemently disagree with a point of view then state your case rather than denigrating the other posters. Or if you feel bored by a particular post then don't feel obligated to respond.
I have watched this happen many times in the RSE arena where somebody would ask Judith/Ramtha a poignant question only to be ridiculed by a counter question and accusation.
I am curious to understand why you are posting here if you have no issues with JZ Knight “Ramtha” and can see no harm with JZK Inc continuing with her “ in my opinion” fraudulent and destructive RSE organization.


David

Re: Thelightersideoflife
Talk about DIVINE intervention! Your the angel for my day that's for sure! Thank you so much for just showing up and especially apprieciating my poop story, I too liked it It felt good to just let it flow, ya know???
Unfortunately, as for "Hope that you will stick around, maybe we can add some light-hearted joy to this place"... as you will shortly see THAT is probably not gonna happen here.
Hugs to you too! and someday maybe there will be a website dedicated to actually rising above & beyond the RSE "experience". Until then...see you on the lighter side!!

Re: David
Talk about TEACHING!

"a constant attitude of trying to "teach" something... to the rest of us poor RSE victims.
Save that for your book"

It doesn't feel as though you are really curious as to why I am posting here David, it seems like you just want to control what I say and when you can't (even after the phone call)then you can go back to accusing me of supporting RSE, likening me to JZ/Ram, having no issues with the school, etc.

I do agree,(and Im using a dash more thoughtfulness here)that this forum is a "support" group, frequency specific to the prevailing thoughts of those on the threads, and obviously I dont belong here.

Chrystal..
I apologies to for the hijacking....

hopefully others will have something helpful to share
regarding the topic thread...

David

Others who have something helpful to share, without the need to accuse others in order to make them adopt their own world view, are welcome.

Right on DanceTheWind. I think you hit the nail on the head. Well, atleast you have had the courage to say things that I am sure many others have thought about. There are definately some parallels between what many of us find objectionable about RSE and the EnlightenMeFree forum.

On the fence,
Please endeavor to post within the subject of this topic thread...
I would suggest you start your own thread to address your concerns.

David

i'd like to suggest that something we all need to keep in mind is this: the enlighten me free forum says right up front that this is NOT a forum for supporting rse/jzk inc/ramtha/jz.

it's a forum for those who have left and need a place to share their experiences in a venue that has not been available to them, previously. leaving rse and saying life is grand has not been a problem for anyone who chooses to do that. leaving rse and having criticism, concerns, and the like, has been a problem.

when someone comes across in a derogatory fashion about others who don't seem to be willing or able to "get on with it" after their rse departure,it's offensive. possibly coldhearted. i have taken the time to get to know quite a few folks "beyond rse", and some of their stories are just tragic.

their only "crime" is that they believed that in giving it all up for a short time, and doing their disciplines (which they did do with as much sincerity as most of us), the fruits of their focus were not forthcoming. it's a downward spiral for some people...you haven't funds to attend events, you lose your position in the school, your "friends" disown you because you're no longer current, you start to see the charade (how conditional it all is, not unconditional love and understanding from the 4th seal), and your view of it all shifts from seeing the spiritual charade, to business-or-nothing $$$ reality.

Lots of people have lost many irreplacable things in their lives. They were misled. To say that is not vitriolic; it's factual and may also contain opinions. There are genuine viewpoints that Ramtha never existed and it's all a fraud. There are viewpoints that he came, and he left. There are viewpoints that JZ is just "channeling" some dark aspect of her own mind. What do these varying perspectives have in common? Sincere people who believed that their is a supernatural world (many of them have had experiences with "psychic" phenomenon on their own, prior to RSE), and who thought (and believed what they were being told), that what they were hearing was going to bring them closer to knowing God.

I am VERY thankful that I haven't suffered from some of the losses others have. Not to say I didn't have my own issues to contend with as a result of my tenure there. I have to be humble enough to admit that some of the dire situations some of the people have been left to contend with, would be situations I'd be hard pressed to handle well, either. Yes, it is a choice to attend there, but it is also the responsibility of any business to be honest about the services they are providing. RSE is open-ended. It claims to be a school, but a school has a graduation and a time when a students receives an accredited degree for the time of studies and level of academic accomplishment. RSE doesn't even give a student of TWENTY YEARS DURATION a diploma that entitles the student to go out and teach. Quite the contrary; the president of the corporation appears to be threatened when/if a student "excels" financially and gets the spiritual limelight on stage, or out in the world. Despite the FACT that students have been told repeatedly to "go out and be a light to the world and teach them what you know. Teach your family, teach your children." "Ramtha" has said that on a number of occasions. Then, on other occasions, "he" has said, "Keep this teaching sacred (secret) and tell NO ONE. If you do, you are casting pearls before swine."

These are not direct quotes, but very darn close, as I am confident other readers on this forum can attest to.

One of the hardest things for people to deal with, is after leaving and realizing you won't be going back, there is nowhere to turn for support. As a former student with questions, concerns, complaints, mixed in with some good times, there is just nowhere to go. Current students tend to blame former students for not "manifesting good enough" if they run out of money to attend events. If former students have a valid, but tough question about the functioning of RSE, they are not welcome to ask it, and if they find a way to ask it (some have), they are not answered. what business runs without having a department to handle "customer satisfaction" ? we're talking about a business that doesn't even offer medical insurance to some staff members who even have children to raise. children get sick. so do adults, but what does that say ?

anyway, i digress.

my main point, despite my wordiness in this post, is that i do think it's quite inaccurate to draw parallels between the criticisms one may have in rse, and emf, when rse leads people to believe one thing, and the reality is quite another. emf says right up front it isn't "pro" rse. getting upset if someone calls another out, over a seeming "pro" rse post/trend, is reasonable. it seems genuinely curious that anyone would want to post here, if they have gone to rse, left rse, and they see their life as unaffected in any negative way, and that everyone else should, too.

if people leave rse, and they live "happily ever after", and they do so irregardless of what they experienced there, good for them. but does that mean we turn a blind eye to those who have suffered tragically, and who HAVE tried to "move on" but have not be able to overcome their losses due to experiences and requirements of rse. i think most of us would be hard pressed to deal with what some of these people have had to cope with, being guilty of what? wanting to know god.

i hope this post comes across as it is intended - with no anger, etc. it's just a sincere opinion, and it's filled with compassion. it's not intended to slam anyone. but it is intended to point out that we are a VERY diverse group and have walked a gamut of paths, with a spectrum of outcomes. some "good" (no harm, no foul), and some ...really not good at all.

the start of this thread was questioning who is really behind the facade of the "teacher" ? it is a hard question to ask, and one that has sparked many viewpoints about who is, or isn't, "ramtha". it's a valid question. and for a former student, who genuinely wants to UNDERSTAND why a teacher would tell you he's going to lead you to enlightenment, and the drink, swear, berate, be abusive with children in an audience by exposing them x-rated sexual talk, as well as the swearing, and even seeing the "adult/god/master teacher" physically hit adults, is a deep, concerning, genuine question.

it would be very healing to a lot of people to have a true, complete, sincere answer to that question. would the real ramtha stand up ? who stands up? a mirage, or a god ? we have yet to know the answer to that .

sincerely,
whatcha

Thanks watcha... That was a well-spoken & heartfelt commentary on the situation. I too have had my "insights" as to who is on the podium. Mine range into it being a mixture of Judy's acting (when there's "nobody home") & at times a mean-spirited tyrant (when she's malevolent). Whoever it is definitely isn't coming from the Soul/Love. As I've had the experience of "merging" my consciousness with this entity, I felt almost nothing, which tells me it's a personality instead of a Soul infused presence. Well there's my 2 cents for now. M.

I know of an ex student who attended a psychic with a very good track record. This student considers Ramtha her teacher even thogh she refuses to formally attend RSE any longer. She was hocked to hear thepsychic say that some of the information presented by "Ramtha" is intentionally misleading in order to keep the people ignorant.

That is interesting, Christel. Especially given that "Ramtha" has criticized religions/churches for keeping people ignorant. For, in doing so, they are easy to control.

I recall a time period of years, when "Ramtha" said that he would not allow pictures of him to be available to students. Why ? Because they would do as christians and put pictures upon their walls and worship them. In recent years, that is one of the contradictions, as pictures of "him" have been sold. Yet, the pictures do not need to be sold to avoid worshipping him. That happens, anyway. One might also ask, why didn't he know that would happen, in advance ? Just one of the list of questions inquiring minds want to understand.

Whatcha

''''She did not trust the other and put a house brick on the hose that would fall off if it was moved........

Whose knowingness knows with certainty the puppeteer behind the mask? '''''

If it were me, I would have simply taken the brick off the hose, used the hose, and the replaced the brick. It's the neuronet of the individual. One was untrusting. The other, I cannot say but only know what I would have done. If I hadn't been able to water the garden, I would have informed the person.

Neuronets galore.

G2, I think you have misunderstood the story. To put it a little differently.......

The lady who said agreed to do the watering was an extremely arrogant person with an air of superior cosmic awareness. She had run courses of that nature for many years.

The one going for a holiday suspected she would not do what she agreed to because she knew her nature VERY well. As it was a remote area there weren't many choices.

She did not do what she said. Instead of admitting it she indicated the other had inferior "knowingness" or cosmic awareness. She was caught out.

In the early years of RSE the term "knowingness" was used quite a lot amongst students. On one of the early videos Ramtha stated that for a fortnight do not ask anyone a question just "know" the answer.

Students claimed their "knowingness" knew all sorts of things......such as their fabulous wealth was almost on the doorstep.....

It is quite apparent their profound knowingness was not correct as they still do not have it 15 years later. In many instances students "knowingness" is just a masquerade.

The "spiritual" lady has a superior attitude that rules the other and uses her "understanding of how it all works" as a weapon.

The "spiritual" lady has a superior attitude that rules the other and uses her "understanding of how it all works" as a weapon
***************************************************

XXXXX... taught SUPERIOR ATTITUDE in private....
SUPREME PRESENCE OF SELF.... Act Accordingly...

Sooooo...

God is not a crum in the corner NEEDING anyting... it is a STATE OF POWER... and to KNOW GOD .... is to KNOW POWER... God is no wimp. smile.

So it was a big durality from the more current tachings of POWER of the Human is ARROGANT POWER... not real POWER.... so it is very difficut to exist within.... I could write a book about this subject.

Hummmmmmmmmmm

The "spiritual" lady has a superior attitude that rules the other and uses her "understanding of how it all works" as a weapon.
****************************************************

We were incouraged to ACK AS IF we were ALL POWER... ALL KNOWING... ALL PRESENCE.... and BEYOND this world... BEYOND ... just a measley God into the WORD of being a LORD.

Very few have heard much about this teaching... it is not good for human ears for, humans can only debate and point fingeres.

As a very small group of under 50... this was an amazing teaching and not given by JZ or Ramtha... but the other one.

I can understand it... but to live in a world of NON-POWER... it is difficult to beging to implement... becuase... just as riding a bike... you fall down a lot.... in this world... as you being to implement this one... you are cursed and chitted for your falling down .....

I always thought it would be good to take a very very small group of only 10 to 15 people .. and impletement this teaching. AWAY from the day to day world.

I, just like many here, had some amazing things happen that you might call miracles or strange... or other worldly shifts... but the ENERGY of it, keeps your mind in the other worlds for too long to be practicle and live here.

Perhaps a mountain top... the ENERGY as you apply this one is addictive. .... and you must walk beyond a lot of things that we here in our human nature of being kind to one another...

POWER is NOT based in LOVE.... Love can be applied after the POWER has been attined... but during the process of integration... all things gets thrown out the window.

POWER STAND.... ALONE... so, as a human personality what wouldit do with that.

Smile.

''''G2, I think you have misunderstood the story. To put it a little differently.......''''

I certainly did misunderstand.

Thanks for the clarification.