Greetings to all who read this message board. I invite you to 'play': "Name That Source". Many of you have recognized Ram's teachings in their original sources. Share your discovery.
From the '90's on there were two types of sources - the blatant ones that Judy sold in her bookstore - Ram would claim that he had inspired/taught/dictated the info to the author -- sweet, huh - Judy could make a profit both ways - via Ram's original teaching and the published copy. So just look at the booklist of what's sold at Judy's stores. There are repeated stories, from former staff of Judy's, that, with the suspicion of Ram's teachings coming from whatever Judy was reading at the time, a woman gave a book to the staff to give to Judy. Sure enough, shortly after a special meeting/gathering at the Ranch was called --there was a big build up of tension and the ominous significance of the truth about to be imparted upon us -- it was the Light Being teaching. And the book out of which it came was conveniently available at the bookstore.
The other type is the more obscure publications,often European. In the early days - the late '70's and early 80's a LOT of the material came from the Edgar Cayce Readings -- in fact, was one of my hooks. Also the Theosophy stuff -- keeping in mind that in the '70's, what is now considered "New Age", i.e. anything not mainstream religion, was difficult to find. Those of you under 50 in age may not realize that. Several people have noted a commonality with Jane Robert's Seth material. In the late 80's Judy started running out of material - and started the teachings on manifestation. More than likely this came from "Behaving as If the God in All Things Mattered" - Machelle ___ Wright. Perelandra.
The quantum physics stuff is Depok Chopra. A big clue on that came from a friend who asked Ram a question in "the field" one day, and Ram's oh so wise and insightful response was about being in "the gap". I believe that's a direct Chopra quote. The Dance of the Wu Lei Dancers was an open source of the quantum physics. Someone on factnet has recognized similarities with Timothy Leary books.
The internet and relatively recent availablility of information has put a kink in Ram's revelatory ability - so he just claims credit for it.

What you FAILED to mention is... in the early days JZ told many that she had a photographic memory...

Having a Photographic Memory is a BIG DEAL... in her ability to deliver the goods of others.

Also read the books by Vera Stanley Alder... were published before Ramtha... most of her Unlimited Ideas are word for word of the RAM's Origional Message... and also Masters of the Far East.

Imagination + Books.... 1 + 1+ =3 she is using her god given creative talen to weave a great tale.. and we have all at some point bought the goods and services.

However, you must give her credit, she is brilliant... regardless of any accountability.

The big point is, in the 70 & 80 the books about these types of subject were few and far between and not openly discussed in the main stream press.

She is simply very good at selling swamp land.

If it does not work, it is the USER's fault .... not the message. That is the BIG HOOK.

W. Clements Stone
Vera Stanley Alder
Dale Carnegie
Seth Jane Roberts

right on re the photographic mind - I did forget to mention that --- it is an essential point - and, at least in the past, was common knowledge.
I have often described Judy as brilliant, an absolute and undeniable genius, and an incredible story teller. Although some of her behaviors are now noticiably a repeating pattern - i.e. the Ram is leaving, you won't be able to get here, I can't do the Ram thing anymore, etc. - - the response to the Gathering via Steve Klein was brilliant -- sick, but brilliant -- "oh lets go and help our brothers and sisters move on and show them our love and powers...."

The Masters was a BIG contribution. 30 years later, I find out it too was a fraud. Why didn't Ramtha know that?

Great Thread, keep up the good work! (or God work like in I heart Huckabees, existencial detectives!)

Taylor Caldwell novels = "Last Waltz of the Tyrants". Especially the more obscure novels from the late 30's, early 40's - pre WWII. The "grey men" term comes from a very obscure Caldwell novel. Some of her novels are eerily descriptive of our current govt. and world. Caldwell's consistent and repetitive theme is the conspiracy of the powerful controlling business and govts.

Masters of Far East

Ramtha has recommended everyone read certain books and often for the events reading is required prior to the event. Ramtha has presented the following books as if they are a factual account and it appears that they are nothing more than a work of fiction. They are called “The Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East” by Baird Spalding.

The series of books are about a research party that lived with alleged “Masters” in the Himalayas and recorded miraculous feats they witnessed whilst living their daily lives with them. The books are written as if it is a documented account and have influenced many people to think that it is possible to live one’s daily life this way. Upon further investigation it seems that the books are a work of fiction.

Here are excerpts from a paper written by cult expert Joseph Szimhart. The paper is called “Denouement of the Prophet’s Cult.” Guy and Edna Ballard were mediums that founded the I AM movement in 1934.

Beyond Theosophy, New Thought, and the Silver Shirts a fourth significant influence came from Guy Ballard’s personal contact with Baird T. Spalding, who wrote Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East. This was a series of six volumes, the first published in 1924. Spalding lived with the Ballards briefly in 1929. (22) In his series he recounts his claimed adventures from 1894-98 in India and the Tibetan region where he and his party of eleven met superhuman "masters" with magical powers who initiated them into mysteries of the great I AM. Despite his claim to the contrary in volume one, Spalding had not been to the
Far East until after his third volume was published in 1935. Both Spalding and Ballard wrote their adventures in the magical autobiography genre, a euphemism for writing from the imagination. Church Universal Triumphant promoted the Spalding series in their bookstore at conferences I (Dr. Joseph Szimhart) attended in 1979-80 and members I knew believed the stories literally.

1) The REQUIRED reading was yet another forceful way to tell students to buy/read the books that were of current relation to the teachings of that time at the "school". It seems to me a more respectful way to address a reading list that one is selling the books for, would be a SUGGESTED reading list. That may seem a subtle nuance to some, but it wasn't to me.
I'm an adult and I don't need/want to be dictated to about what I MUST read.

2) Another book that sounded like pornography to me, was Trance Formation of America. I don't know if that is a truthful book, or not. There is a website that goes along with it and it's based on secret government based, intentional sex slave rings. I would not like to believe that the depth of what this book claims, is true. But "Ramtha" said it was highly accurate and we were to read it. An anti-government motive from RSE. I finally read the book, after four months of resistance. It was thoroughly appalling and distressing. Probably the most vile book I have read in my life. Spare yourself.

3) Yes it's true what has been posted so far about books on this thread. I have heard of all mentioned, and know it's what was said.

4) I've also heard that there was control over what was allowed for sale in the RSE bookstore, as it required JZ's approval. Several folks (at least, I'd suspect far more), have had their book suggestions refused.

5) There is a person who left RSE because he was at the LARSE gathering in WA, and he shared how JZ as Ramtha (my opinion) taught a teaching straight out of a book. He was sitting next to a woman, who had the book with her, and she showed him where the paragraph just taught, was in the book. Yet, the teaching was presented as some deep and profound wisdom from the big guy. Not so.
There are others who have been citing this sort of thing for years.

6) Curiously enough (can we spell competition?), I don't believe there has been a book sold that is authored by a current channeler. Correct me if I am mistaken.

Ramtha has said MANY times that he is the only one like him on the planet. It was also discourged to go to other channelers, and at times, it was threatened that if a student did, they would be kicked out as he wanted sincere students, not seekers. More control. A jealous and posessive God ? hahahahaha

QUOTE...Ramtha has said MANY times that he is the only one like him on the planet. It was also discourged to go to other channelers, and at times, it was threatened that if a student did, they would be kicked out as he wanted sincere students, not seekers. More control. A jealous and posessive God ? hahahahaha"

Interesting it TIRGGERS something within me, in the Mafu camp... it the early late 80's /early 90's Mafu told those who were going to Ramtha to make their choice of thie path.... many people left the organization at that time.

The interesting thing was, I was with Mafu in the 80's in Pacifica, he said, that he was Ramtha in a different form, why, becuase we did not believe Ramtha... he came with the SAME VOICE ... if you have ever heard the earlier voice of Ramtha and Mafu.. they were identical... it was the later voice of these two that changed.

So, Mafu said, many could not believe the words of the Ram... so another was creted... interesting thing... many of the things Ramtha taugh in the 90's we studied in private with Mafu in the 80. I would say the big difference was Mafu was 10 years ahead of the Ramtha teachings. Yep, now that will not be well received.

In addiation, we were ask to let go of everything, except ONE SUITE CASE of our most loved things.. and give or let go of everything else. I did this.. and wondered for a few years... it was very freeing. The things we have in our life... keep us connected to our past... it is a way to let the past go. .... and re-invent yourself.

In addition, we were WALKING OUR BOARDS in the late 80's.... learning to MASTER a wooden plank to FLOAT in the AIR... Yes, I and other did do this... after falling on our ass a few times...

we were practicing the MASTERY of the Ascesion of POWER within... on a wooden board... it was a very private teaching... I have NEVER talked about it to anyone.

I must say, many of the private teachings of the late 80's and early 90's were conscious shifting... it was not C & E... is was Self-MASTERY.. of your mind these were very very small mastery group.

How can you BE or FIND YOURSELF on the moon... alive and well in consciousness if you are attached to your home here... it was similar to the later Ramtha teaching.

I did have some very strange events with Mafu.... where the room CHANGED and the group was in another dimension together studing with other teachers...

The PRIVATE teaching were always a lot differnet than the public teaching.... this way long long before the Tiger Sancuary before the 2nd Ashram at Paramont Dharma... this was when we were living in Tents at the Ranch at Eagle Point.

In 1992 or 93 sometime around then, our small goup was told to leave the Ashram, that we alreayd knew more than Mafu knew when he Ascended ... we were to BECOME the TRUTH of our SElf. So stayed... some like me never went again... I did visit a few times in 1999 once and in 2002... never been back since.

After that, The whole groups changed and the teachings were for followerls... Guru Deciple realationship. It was a whole different focus....

Lazaris (channeled through Jach Pursel) has also taught things very long ago, things that Ramtha did not teach until the mid to late 90's. Maybe they are having a cosmic competition.

I remember hearing that Mafu was a fraud from people in the RSE camp. Whatever.

I had very brief exposure to the Mafu teachings and it didn't work for me. Just more control and people who think they know it all and have The Keys To Enlightenment. They don't.

I still have more respect for the very small mastery group with Mafu than I did with any other goup... the Mafu of today, is not teaching the same thing..

The people who were there, were all finiacially strong.. and were not concerned about making money. The events were not expensive..other than the committment of TIME.

I have no idea what they are doing. In those days, no one was beaten or verbally abused by Penny... but Mafu was quite stern.

In those day, it was more about DOING than just listening to a a lecture... We learnd how to SHAPE SHIFT our consciousness from one point of view to another...

The one room we studied in which no longer exist now, it is a monkey room... it had carpet with CRYSTALS lining the wall about 4 or 5 inches apart... and to walk in the room... there were different types of Rocks you had to step on... lapas, and others.. can not remember....

It was the Shape Shifting Room.

We had many things at the Ranch like Ramtha has now... Mind Gym...

We were not focused on manifesting things in this world, we were focused os SELF-MASTERY... and Shifiting to other Dimentions... that is the SHIFING of the whole ROOM... from 3-D to other Dimensions... it has nothing to do with making more money or haveing cars appear or material things.

It was more like VISION QUEST.... where the whole group shifted into other worlds together. Many of the things are weird to talk about.. other then, within self... you have a REFERENCE POINT of VIEW.

The Keys To Enlightenment. They don't.

I agree, because ultimately, everything is SELF...

No one can take credit for Enlightenment.

and also, different people come to thse groups for different reasons, some just want more Money Dreams... some just want peace, some are looing for a soul mate...

I would say, within any group at any time there are multi-streams of POINT - OF -VIEW and REASoNS and DESIRES and WANTS.

Enlightenment means something different to each person.

Smile

Yes, the students are all their for their own reasons, which is fine. I don't have any judgment on that. One thing you didn't mention in your description of why folks may be there, is the students who were there and intended to manifest God realization within them in THIS lifetime.

Their "goal" was christ consciousness, then God realization.

As for what you call shape shifting, I've heard it called other things. I have had a few experiences with lights SO bright coming into a room (never at an event, however, but in private residences and full unexpected), that the walls of the room disappeared and other things appeared. I am not alone in this experience, there were others in the room.

I have NO doubt that these things happen. I do not, however, give any accountability to Ramtha, Mafu, Lazaris, etc., that they DID happen. They happened because those involved were ready for them to happen. They also did not happen based on any financial consideration in anyone's personal life. Those present ran the gamut from well off, to living from paycheck to paycheck. Material things like money have no bearing, in my opinion, on how far anyone gets in their spiritual evolution. It hasn't been my experience/observation that it has been true.

All that said, it all comes back home to the same thing...God is omnipresent, and that includes people.

Well said Whatcha. Thats the thing, everyone comes with the same longing. Wonderous "things" happen and I have (unfortunately) attributed them to the teacher, teaching, THAT path or THIS path etc.(at times)
When all it means is I was ready and open.The old addage about never being given more than you can handle or are ready for would have been a good thing for me to remember during some of the "diciplines" when they crossed over into another rhelm and didnt seem so "spiritual" at all.

when it smells like poop... it probably is.

I do love my Cape though and wouldnt give it up for anything!!!

Material things like money have no bearing, in my opinion.....

Oh But it does... you can hardly sit very long and consider other things not of this world.. if every breath you take is consumed with how you will pay you're bills or finance you're life...

The personal OBLIGATIONS will distract you.

That is common sense.

Smile.

Smile.

Their "goal" was christ consciousness, then God realization.

Actually it goes like this...
Human

Christ Man
Christ

God Man
God

Father

These OVERLAP one another... At any give time you can be FOCUSED in more than one simetaneously...

We are ALL.... ALREADY ALL OF it. It is only the FOCUS of the attention that changes.

Some can focus on 1, 2, 3 or 4 with conscious awareness of them. That is what Self-Realization is all about. Simetaneously BEING.. all things.

Pamela,

I understand that for YOU, it goes likes this:
"Actually it goes like this...human/christ/god/father" as you go on to list your belief


In any case, I assure you, I am capable of drawing my own conclusions. I DO believe that if a person is poor, they are also still capable of becoming God realized. Otherwise, God is limited. Jesus hadn't financial riches. He had sackcloth and sandals, and he realized FAR more than a human being with financial wealth did; then or now, since he "made it".

To me, THAT is "common sense".

Good for you, Dance !
You go right ahead and enjoy that cape, and your soul, spirit, laundry, dishes, kids, pets....

Thanks Whatcha, I do!! I will say that for over 200 smakeroos I wish they could have made this cape out of some material that wasn't a DOG HAIR MAGNET!!!
(it dont wash out either)
luv dem smileys

male kingbehavier :jule bruner in the king and i.the marching army story:kirk douglas in spartacus.twinkies contain a subtance which helps you to be imortal:homer simpson.

the story with the sword:king arthus.world concerer:alexander the great.