hi

I'm not an old student of Ramtha, but I know someone who is going to move to Yelm and study with RSE, so I was inspired to do some looking around the web tonight concerning our favorite girl/guy.

As I was reading posts, I remembered a few things that I had heard and read about in the 80's. I remember reading an account that a couple of JZ's students were taking a walk (on a break during a Ramtha event) and happened to see JZ talking to herself by a big rock. One minute she was JZ and then she would walk behind the rock and change her voice and 'channel' Ramtha....this went on, back and forth, changing from JZ to Ramtha, for a time. The students came away with the feeling that they had witnessed JZ practicing her bogus 'channeling' technique. I can't remember which publication I read this in, but it was some type of spiritual magazine.

Also, I had never heard about the 'wine ceremonies' before...but as I was reading about them tonight, I immediately thought of how alcohol and/or drugs blow holes in the aura, which allows entities to enter and influence. Immediately I thought of 4th dimensional parasites (I know this may sound weird!) It got me to wondering exactly WHAT old JZ/Ramtha was up to. The truth may be stranger than we think.

In my experience, 'bad gurus' will always use TRUTH as a carrot to attract SEEKERS...and once they have the seeker in their grip, their 'other' agendas surface! I've seen the bad guru use their students as 'batteries', stealing their life-force, their chi, their ki, for their own agendas.

I remember hearing other questionable things about JZ/Ramtha back in the 80's. I'm wondering, does anyone else out there remember the stories??

I'll bet that old JZ has a lot of shady history that needs to be remembered and talked about. (as do many other 'bad gurus' out there!) Gabriel of Sedona is of a similar ilk.

I also remember reading some prophecies in the 1970's by an East Indian guru (i forget who!) who said that during the time of great change...(now?!) there would be many 'false' spiritual teachers. As I look around, I can see that his prophecy was true!

Being 'bewitched' by a bad guru is definitely a 'bad bump' in the spiritual road, although I am sure there is a lot to learn from it!

The one good thing is... after fully observing the red flags...(even belatedly), one has an great internal warning system that will blow loud and clear in the future!

i had a blast in the wine ceremonies myself. this
was 1997-1998. i had some very interesting experiences
in the space that opened up thru that medium. i know
that others got into one form of trouble or another
in those days, but for me the veils really did drop,
and i was practically weightless. so, it worked for
me. and it was a helluva lot more fun than clubbing
ever was.

personally i believe that anyone who sets themselves
up as a teacher of 'spirituality' is a fraud. then
it becomes a question of whether or not the person
is dangerous to you, or of practical benefit. are
they genuine frauds - honest about it? in the case
of rse you have, in my opinion, an intrinsic
truth which each of us in reality has in common
but which is unleashed in strong form thru jz
because of her bpd (which is the hallmark of
all shamans). in her case she, thru the character
of ramtha which she obviously created, is twisting
that life force in exceedingly abberent ways. she
is what you could term a 'dirty channel'. more and
more so as she tightens her stranglehold on it. it
wouldn't be so bad....if she just kept that to
herself. but her princess-complexion requires her
to have company as she spirals down to whereever
she is going. kind of like a suicide bomber who
wants to take as many with them as they can.

lost souls go to ramtha to feed off of it; they
in turn are fed off of. and the whole bunch
slowly degenerates and dies.

yeah, a 'dirty channel'...I like that term, it describes the energy perfectly.

all of us are channeling various forms of 'god'; a good clean channel is rare & wonderful

yep, reminds me of that old saying, "that which does not kill you makes you stronger" - maybe bad gurus are actually creating the spiritual masters of tomorrow, not because they are consciously trying to, but because 'everything serves to further'. In the cosmic masterplan, everything has its purpose.

i am inclined to agree with you personally. adversity
is a catalyst. the caveat to that however is that
most of us are not well prepared to utilize this
kind of adversity in a beneficial and non-destructive
manner. we have been cultivated as drones since mom
shipped us off to school. we lack strong centers
and discrimination with regards to what we take in.

i have a solid background in martial arts. also, i
had spent many of my younger years off and on in
another cult, and so had already been-there-done-
that to large degree with the devotee crap. i didn't
walk into this one unprepared. but for most others,
their conditioning is such that they really are
not properly steeled for what they are getting into.
and there is no advance warning either, just a
lot of camoflage. that too can be advantageous...
to a rare few. for most others however, it is simply
unwitting suicide.

Holy Bad Bob comments: "In my experience, 'bad gurus' will always use TRUTH as a carrot to attract SEEKERS...and once they have the seeker in their grip, their 'other' agendas surface! I've seen the bad guru use their students as 'batteries', stealing their life-force, their chi, their ki, for their own agendas."

whatcha replies: Your comments are in line with the general patterns of cult-like groups. You may want to take the time to read this website's article on The Mind Trap.
http://enlightenmefree.com/trap.html